The Jamison Trade: Pros and Cons
2010-02-17Let’s put this at the top of the post: Amar’e was not available. The Cavs offered their best package, waited on the Suns, and ultimately got turned down. The Cavs would not have done this deal if they had a realistic shot at Amar’e. Jamison-Amar’e comparisons may as well be Jamison-Howard comparisons.
So it happened. For the second time in three years, the Cavs have made a major trade at the deadline. While they went for Amar’e hard late, Jamison was the target the Cavs had their eye on almost all season long, and they bagged him. Let’s break it down, pros and cons style:
Pros:
1. The Cavs fixed their biggest weakness.
JJ Hickson has come on strong these last few weeks. He couldn’t have done much more for his value at trade time. He’s got tons of talent, and could be a very good forward in this league for many years to come.
Overall, though, JJ was somewhat of a weak link. It would be nice to think that JJ can keep up his current level of play for the rest of the year. However, JJ’s strong games were preceded by some weak months.
JJ’s been playing significant minutes. During those minutes, he has been perhaps the team’s worst rotation player. The Cavs’ starting lineup has been one of the team’s least effective 5-man units. JJ was the reason why. As of February 15th, the Cavs have been +0.8 points per 100 possessions when Hickson is on the floor. The next-lowest mark among Cavs rotation players belongs to Shaq. The Cavs are a full 4.6 points per 100 possessions better than their opponents when Shaq’s in the game. In addition to that, Shaq’s vastly improved play in the last month or so is a return to what he’s been doing for over a decade. JJ’s improvement could well be a flash in the pan.
I will always remember the days of Hicksomania fondly. That being said, getting a reliable veteran to replace most of JJ’s minutes was the right move to make.
2. The Cavs got to keep Hickson.
I don’t love the prospect of Hickson playing major minutes this season. However, his value as a piece down the road is considerable. JJ is 21, he’s tall, he’s athletic, he’s played major minutes for the team with the best record in the league, and he’s shown flashes of skill in almost every area. He’s far from a finished product, and has held the starting lineup back at times, but keeping him was the right move for the future.
3. Jamison helps keep the chemistry.
Amar’e may have been too big for this team. He’s been the high scorer on the Suns for most of his career. He would’ve demanded to start. He would’ve demanded major minutes. You’ve got to build an offense with him in mind. And so on down the line. I think Amar’e would have been worth that risk, but he wasn’t available.
The good news is that Jamison doesn’t have Stoudemire’s alpha dog ego. Jamison’s been a third option in Washington before, and thrived in the role. He’s toiled in Golden State and on some bad Wizards teams. He doesn’t need to be the focus of an offense. He’s always willing to adapt his game. He’s never been a prima donna. Jamison’s upside isn’t sky-high, but he’s an extremely low-risk upgrade for the rest of the year.
4. He should fit next to Shaq and Varejao.
Jamison can shoot. He has to be guarded beyond the three-point line, and is comfortable catching and shooting. Even if he’s not on fire, he’ll provide Shaq with space in the post and Andy space to cut. He’s also crafty off the ball, and should be able to find cuts and angles to receive an interior pass from Shaq or Andy when Antawn dives to the rim. When he gets it near the hoop, he has great patience and can finish from a variety of angles. Jamison’s been in the league for a long time. He knows how to score from everywhere on the court. He’ll be able to make it work on offense in ways that pairings of Shaq/Hickson, Shaq/Andy, or Andy/Hickson weren’t able to.
5. Jamison can create his own shot.
The Cavs have been offensive juggernauts early in the game. However, they’re prone to going through some stagnant stretches in the second half. The third quarter has been a serious problem, even though they start it with the same players that start the game. It’s odd. The team stops moving, and looks at LeBron or Shaq to bail them out. It gets frustrating to watch. As good as the Cavs have become offensively, they still don’t have many guys who can create their own shot. Jamison can, and is capable of creating his own offense with a dribble-drive or a quick, unorthodox shot from the post. Jamison will help the Cavs give teams more to deal with offensively, particularly later on in games.
6. Jamison can be trusted with the ball late.
Jamison knows how to score, he makes good decisions, and he almost never turns the ball over. Who would you rather have with the ball late — Jamison or Hickson?
Cons:
1. Jamison’s reputation as a shooter is ahead of his accuracy.
Yes, Jamison can make threes. However, his 34.5% mark from beyond the arc isn’t setting the world on fire. The theory is that he’ll get better looks next to LeBron James, but all of his threes are already assisted. He’s also a fairly poor shooter from midrange. He’s only making 35% of his jumpers from the 10-15 foot range, and 48% from the 16-23 foot range. Over 80% of those jumpers have also come off of assists. His percentage from 10-15 feet is right in line with his marks over the past few years, and his 38% mark from 16-23 is actually the best one since HoopData started charting those shots. Teams will have to guard Jamison on the perimeter, but it’s not the worst strategy to dare Jamison to beat you from the outside.
2. Jamison’s defense is a question mark.
Jamison could be an effective defender in the Cavs’ system. Shaq shuts down the paint, and Varejao is an effective interior defender. This should leave Jamison free to show and recover on the perimeter, which he has the quickness to do well. Additionally, LeBron could spend some time guarding fours, leaving Jamison to guard threes.
The issue is that I have trouble signing off on Jamison as a defensive player when he’s been on some horrible defensive teams. Over the last few years, the Wizards give up around 112 points per 100 possessions when Jamison is on the floor. That’s really bad. I was concerned about Stoudemire’s defense, and the Suns have historically given up around 108 points per 100 possessions with Amar’e on the floor. A big reason for getting Jamison was because of how bad Hickson has been defensively, and the Cavs give up around 109 points per 100 when Hickson plays.
The Wizards have never had a decent defensive system, but neither have the Suns. Jamison seems to always show effort defensively and could benefit tremendously from being part of a team that focuses on defense. However, his defensive history is a red flag, especially considering that the Wizards have never been better on defense when Antawn plays.
3. Jamison may be given to forcing shots.
Jamison takes 17 shots a game. Not all of them are good, and his TS% is only 53%. The Cavs don’t have a lot of players who can create their own shots, but they’ve been one of the league’s most efficient offensive teams because the shots the role players do create are good ones. Jamison’s ability to create shots will help this team when they go stagnant. The other side of that coin is that Jamison taking bad shots could hamper the Cavs’ offense when they get on a roll.
4. Jamison presents some risks long-term.
Jamison is 33, and he’s owed major money through the 2011-12 season. If Jamison flops this year, he could become an albatross.
Ultimately, this move presents an upgrade. It was the best move the Cavs had available to them. If Z gets back with the team, the Cavs won’t have given up any on-court assets to get it done. It’s not a complete slam dunk, but it was the move that gave the best chance at getting that elusive championship.
Amare the most overrated player on the planet and not a fit … Antwan a perfect fit … team player, shooter and will play fine D … check out what he does on Rashard …. so quit crying about Amare … easily the best move we could have made
Let’s see how JJ plays tonight. If I was him I’d play strong an prove my worth.
Why are you dissing hickson so much. He is only 21 and playing very well. The points per 100 possessions is not the most meaningful stat in my opinion. The player could be doing well while the others are not.
One other thing that has been overlooked in this trade is that the shots Jamison soaks up is going to take away from Mo’s shots when he returns.
Anything that keeps the ball away from Mo is a good thing in my opinion.
Hey I just wanted to say that Ive been a Wizards fan all my life and Jamison is far an away my favorite nba player. He is going to help the cavs tremendously you should feel very lucky to have him. He is a stand up guy and no wonder we call him The Gentleman here
@ Wolffman. Good call on LeBron signing a long term deal. All the guys on ESPN say he’ll only sign for three or so to keep the Cavs honest. But that doesn’t make sense because as you say the CBA is expiring and the max deals are going to be made smaller. Thus the most money LeBron can get is signing a six year deal with the Cavs for the max (6 years is the max number of years for a Larry Bird exception contract). I think at this point Dan Gilbert and Danny Ferry have proven to LeBron they… Read more »
@ sean. The Cavs had zero chance of getting Bosh unless the Raptors would have wanted an expiring contract, which they don’t because Bosh’s contract is already expiring. No way Toronto would have taken Z or Shaq for Bosh. So saying this trade gives us no hope for the future because now we can’t get Bosh makes no sense. There is no way we would have been able to sign him this offseason anyway as we don’t have the cap room. Yes, Jamison will only get older but I say he’s got at least this year and next to continue… Read more »
I want to second General Woundwort. There has been a lot of good commentary on the web on this acquisition, but surprisingly little attention paid to Jamison’s time in Dallas. He appears to be somebody with a nice efficiency curve to fit in to a championship contender.
And every Cavs fan should give Dan Gilbert a kiss. Could you imagine this team 8 years ago? Ferry has been great, but he owns better cards because Gilbert is willing to spend to earn. Enjoy it while it lasts, because the new CBA is going to take away that advantage we have.
I really think this was the best trade available to win a championship this year, and to get LeBron to sign a deal. If STAT had come and left for Miami over the summer that would have been catastrophic. Now we’ve got what will still be a talented, crafty veteran after this year on the books for three years. It can really only hurt us next year when we won’t have a big expiring deal to trade, but with this team (assuming we bring back Shaq and or Z for another year) we’re not going to need to make a… Read more »
God, so much kool-aid drinking in Cleveland today.
the trade makes lots of sense for 2010. ZERO negatives for 2010. it really hurts the Cavs going forward (with or without Lebron). I really wanted to see Bron and Bosh in Cleveland next year. The chances of that were probably low anyway, but Jamison’s contract all but kills it. Now we’ll end up with Wade and Bosh together or something, Jamison’s game will have declined considerably, and Cleveland wont look so great. Hopefully they win it this year.
Say what you want about Jamison’s defense, but it isn’t any worse than Mo’s was in Milwaukee before he came here. Jamison’s coming to a team that will expect him to defend. If he’s 1/3 of the true professional everyone says he is, he’ll pull his weight when needed.
Kudos to Ferry and Gilbert for pulling this off.
I’m suprised no one has mentioned Antawn’s 2003-04 season in Dallas. It was the only time in his career where he played on a really good team, or where he played with a great facilitator (Nash). He had a TS% of 58.1% that year, far and away the best of his career, and had career highs in FG% and 3pt% as well. His USG% was a career-low 20.7%, and he responded by being more efficient than ever before or since. Of course, in Dallas he was primarily an inside player, as they had plenty of perimeter shooting from Dirk, Finley,… Read more »
Ultimately, this move presents an upgrade. It was the best move the Cavs had available to them.
It’s definitely a major upgrade (especially assuming we get Z back), but I’m not so sure it was our best move. Even Troy Murphy might have been better than Antawn — younger and a far better jump shooter (actually one of the best in the league this year).
One more thing. I don’t view Hickson as our biggest liability. I think offensive production from SG is our biggest problem.
I agree with this, my fantasy this year was to get Iguodala.
John, will we see Jamison in the starting lineup against the Nuggs tonight?
Let’s look at your cons, John. First, you say that Jamison’s shots come from 80% assists. What do you think is gonna happen here? LeBron and Shaq are gonna set him up. It doesn’t matter if God himself played for the Cavs. LeBron is gonna dominate the action, and everyone else is gonna play off of him. Part of this is on LeBron as well not to dominate the ball as much. Second, you can’t point out Jamison’s defense or lack thereof if STAT was your wet dream. Both guys played on teams that have NEVER were interested in playing… Read more »
I think this is the start of something beautiful, the pros heavily outweigh the cons, in your writing i could tell you weren’t even sure if the cons were true, nice story, but realistically jamison-amare comparisons are ludicrous considering amare can’t stretch a d and we need that open for the king, the best team in the league just got significantly better, and that championship trophy IS coming to cleveland, (Wonder if van gundy takes the, Lets make jamison beat us approach, good luck.)
There is no doubt this was a good deal for the cavs. Amare is a great player but him an shaq with the suns didn’t really work. Jamison is a much better fit for the cavs system he brings leadership and an averade of 20.7 points per game. Good break down of the pros and cons. One last thing did someone really think Troy Murphy would have been a good pick up, the guy is soft and plays no D he’s straight garbage.
I love the picture you chose for this article, Krolik, though perhaps don’t completely share the sentiment. That was one of the best parts in the film when they both run on the bus and then suddenly their faces change and become “WTF did we just do?”
@Tim. I agree with Kevin. No slight to Windhorst but Krolik throws down the best Cavs analysis anywhere. period. He knows the game. All he was saying with the Howard mention is that the Cavs had as realistic a shot at trading for Amare as they would have had at trading for Superman #2. In the end the Suns either wanted too much or they weren’t willing to give up on their hopes of keeping Amare long term. The Suns had won like six in a row (or five of their last six, not sure) before last night. I think… Read more »
@Tim – You are WAY out of line. Krolik is an NBA badass and probably watches more ball than you can think of. Also, both the stats and actual gameplay show that Amare is a superior midrange shooter to Jamison, so saying Amare can’t shoot is just plain false. I do think Jamison is an upgrade and am happy to have him. But if you think he’s a 6-10 Mark Price, you’re in for a surprise.
Jamison hasn’t played major minutes alongside a great facilitator in years, nor has he played with a dominant center who commands a double. Arenas is a PG in name alone. Let’s see how Jamison’s mid-range game looks when he can set his feet and feed off Bron and Shaq. On time and on target.
The point made there, I think, was that the ridiculousness of that comparison was similar to the ridiculousness of the comparison of Jamison to Stoudemire. Two completely different types of players who are not expected at this stage of their careers to fill the same roles for their teams.
Oh and to suggest that Amare Stoudemire is on the same level as Dwight Howard is ludicrous. Stoudemire is a poor defender, poor jump shooter, and benefits greatly from playing an uptempo game with Steve Nash at the point. Scoring 20 ppg with a fast break team like Phoenix is the equivalent of scoring 14 ppg with a more defensive minded team like Orlando. I would suggest relying less on stats and more on intangibles in evaluating a players worth. Do you actually watch any games or just look at the box scores?
This was definitely a good trade. It appears that we’re going to get Z back and Jamison fits better than Stoudemire. I disagree with you that Hickson as a starter worked poorly. Hickson still only played about 15-20 min a game and it allowed Varajeo to come off the bench where he was more effective playing essentially the same minutes he had as starter. Furthermore you have to let the kid play so he can develop his game. He won’t get better by sitting at the end of the bench with Darnell Jackson. I also don’t see a need to… Read more »
While I am a little upset that we could not aquire Amare, Jamison is an enormous upgrade over Hickson. Only the next few months will decide whether or not this was enough to put us over the top.
John, you sound like a kid that was expecting a puppy under the Christmas tree but only got socks. I could almost feel your shoulders slumping via your terse answers in the chat today. Me? I was elated that we didn’t get the stat-sheet-stuffer Stoudemire for a three month rental, and frankly, I don’t trust anyone that’s earned the nickname “Stat” to really help out in a team-oriented game. Indeed, he’s younger and talented, but he’s primarily playing for his next contract and would not have been happy with reduced opportunities to fill that box score towards making his case… Read more »
jamison for a draft pick and Big Z’s EC (and hope that he returns in 30 days) is a steal. Amare would have been insane, but this could end up working out even better.
I agree with Sean on Antawn’s defense; Hickson is still learning defensive tools, while Jamison has the tools, but has never had to use them. And John, there’s nothing definite about any of the cons you listed, so I really think this deal will have major upside.
Jamison, for the price in trade, was a steal of biblical proportions.
I think i would’ve preferred Troy Murphy in this spot because his contract was more reasonable but this was a move the Cavs had to make and will hopefully put them over the top. If not, Cleveland can say goodbye to Lebron.
good break down. All the Amare comparisons can stop. We couldn’t get him. I think the pros outweigh the cons with Jamison. He can’t be any worse defensively than Hickson and I feel he has to be able to pick it up on that end. As for shooting percentage. His percentages are better than Hickson’s so that will keep teams honest at least, and hopefully with LeBron he doesn’t feel the need to take 17 shots. He wont be averaging 20 points as a cav, but 13 to 15 would be very good for us.
John, I haven’t read this yet, but during the Daily Dime Chat, you referenced the Wicker Man, and that makes you my hero