Young Player Profile: Kyrie Irving
2013-01-11This will not be two-thousand words like the article on Tristan; then I wanted to highlight some non-box score strengths of his game. With Kyrie, everyone knows the drill; this is absolutely the least essential of this series. For a twenty year old, his offense amazes, with performance rarely paralleled in recent years. Respected analysts describe him as “a breathtaking offensive talent”. Unfortunately, defensive “train wreck” came with that particular description. For better and worse, frequently both items ring true.
Offense
On offense, Kyrie has been ridiculous. A few snippets:
- Both his career 109 offensive rating and 29 usage are ahead of Russell Westbrook’s lifetime marks, despite Westbrook debuting at six months older and entering his prime. They also are equivalent to Derrick Rose’s 110 and 28, despite Rose debuting at six months older and playing four seasons.
- Of all rookies drafted since 2000 that played 5o or more games, Kyrie ranked third for PER behind Chris Paul and Blake Griffin. Paul kicked-off his career 10 months older than Kyrie, with Griffin a full two years older.
- Kyrie ranks 16th in the NBA this season for PER. Only one player ahead of him is within three years of his age; James Harden is 2 years, 209 days older.
At this end of the court, the start to Kyrie’s career is elite; there are no two ways around that. A spectacular ball-handler and phenomenal shooter, the “future superstar” projection rests on his mantle. This year, he averages 23.5 points per game on 47 / 43 / 83.
A small negative resides in his “point guard stats”. His assist rate plunges from last year, and his assist to turnover ratio decreases substantially. Some of this rests on teammate inefficiency at shot-making, and some on an occasional apparent lack of confidence in those teammates, but a tendency towards hero-ball also rears it’s head.
Defense
Kyrie’s defense is not ideal, but rather than re-hash a thoroughly discussed idea, I will run through a couple of game recaps, then as a summary, provide an over-arching thought on where his defense stands.
January 2nd, 2013 – Sacramento at Cleveland
Kyrie tallied 22, 5 and 6 on 53% true shooting with 3 turnovers as Cleveland suffered a painful loss to the Kings, who played without Marcus Thornton and Tyreke Evans. The first quarter started well, as Kyrie took advantage of the smaller Isaiah Thomas, scoring six points in the first eight minutes without missing a shot. On one possession, Irving also drew defensive praise from the Sacramento announcers for fending off Thomas on repeated penetration attempts. Repeatedly running pick-and-pop sets with Zeller and Walton resulted in three missed-assist opportunities, as the Cav bigs could not convert. As the quarter wore on, Kyrie’s play slightly diminished; he missed two shots in the final eleven seconds, and I swear he stalled for a full second on a Jimmer Fredette pick. Just to be clear, Jimmer Fredette set the pick.
As typical, Kyrie sat the initial seven minutes of the second quarter. He missed both shots for the quarter, including another beautiful, yet failed, isolation play near the end of the half. A give-and-go dish to Alonzo Gee resulted in another missed jumper. Defensively, he strolled behind a couple of pick-of-rolls and offered the anti-TT experience, with a thought process apparently of “can’t someone else do it?”
The third quarter again offered good and bad. Isaiah Thomas drove past Kyrie for an and-one, and an ill-advised switch allowed a Demarcus Cousins mismatch in the post. Bright sides included Kyrie and Tyler corraling the ball-handler to step on the baseline through solid pick-and-roll defense, and he hounded Thomas into an ugly miss to end the quarter. Kyrie’s passing resulted in two assists on shots from deep, however three other would-be assists rimmed out; Sacramento pretty much quit guarding Luke Walton. Kyrie scored eight, including a spot-up three and a magnificent behind-the-back-into-between-the-legs-into-tough-elbow-pull-up!
Kyrie checked in with 5:40 to go in the fourth. Several Sacramento possessions featured Kyrie finding himself out of the play, and the remainder of the possession devolving into chaos and a Kings bucket. Aaron Brooks blasted past him for a crushing lay-up that extended Cleveland’s deficit to four with 18 seconds remaining. Offensively, Kyrie converted a mind-meldingly-tough baseline shot and also scored six points in the final two minutes to keep the game close. Unfortunately, all three of his turnovers came in the final four minutes, helping shut the door on a comeback. The iso-heavy, non floor-spaced offense that Cleveland frequently features in crunch time lead Kyrie into a ball-handling miscue and also tripping / throwing a pass out of bounds.
This was a relatively representative Kyrie game. He scored 22 with reasonable efficiency and some circus shots. His defense was…uninspiring. His six assists easily could have been 9 or 10 if a few teammate jumpers fell. Let’s move on to the next one.
January 7th, 2013 – Cleveland at Chicago
This was certainly not one of Cleveland’s best efforts; that will happen when profiling a random selection of games. In 29 minutes of a Bulls blowout, he tallied 15 points on 55% true shooting with 6 assists and 3 turnovers. The game started magically, largely fueled by Kyrie-related brilliance en-route to a 30 to 20 lead. His nine points and four assists included two transition dimes, a pull-up 20-footer off a pick, a slick-dribbling pull-up, and a sweetly-stroked three after bringing the ball up-court. His jumper was on, he located open teammates…all cylinders were firing. The final possession of the quarter featured an iso-drive from half-court for a miss.
As Kyrie sat the first seven minutes of quarter two, an eight-point lead crumbled into a two-point deficit. His five minutes of play featured some lackadaisical pick-and-roll defense and halfway committed post-help. On several possessions, his positioning best describes as no-man’s-land. Tightly-controlled ball-handling lead to four shot attempts, but unfortunately all were missed; this included two in the final ten seconds. For anyone counting at home, that is seven shots taken in the last twelve seconds of the six quarters profiled, with only one make. Kyrie can be a crunch time ninja, but hopefully a part of his growth includes incorporating additional appropriate opportunities to pass in these situations. Certainly the defense is paying a lot of attention to him.
The third quarter was ugly for the Cavs, as they gave up 35 points. Generally, Kyrie’s defense aided the Chicago explosion, but I am bored of talking about it. He made his final field goal of the game less than two minutes into the quarter and then sat out the fourth. It was a stupid second half. Let’s move on to the…
Summary:
Kyrie is a top twenty offensive player in the league. Right now. And he cannot legally enter drinking establishments for two months. That is spectacular, and finds him progressing toward the upper echelon of NBA stars.
His defense is less phenomenal. According to RAPM, of 364 players with over 400 possessions this season, Kyrie is 294th as a stopper. And this needs to improve, lest he be overrated; it’s a two-way game.
He is young though. His defensive RAPM has improved by one point per 100 possessions from last year to this one, the PER he allows his opponent is down 1.5, and his steal rate is up. He always rebounded well. With continual improvement to his effort and performance on defense, and only incremental upticks on offense, he can be the best player on a championship team. Let’s see him do that.
Are you guys serious? Worst defender?? Holy crap he’s averaging about 3 steals a game since getting back from injury. THIS GUY IS PHENOMENAL! 20 years old 3rd best point in the league. Y’all spare me his defensive assignment and tell me y Alonzo Gee starts? 1-7 2 points 2 rebounds 5 fouls. Missed 2 free throws w the game tied and Denver promptly scores.
Easily top 15.
You can take out Duncan, Ginobli, Parker, Wade, Love Nowitzksi, Aldridge, and Williams
Maybe I’m just being conservative, but I wasn’t ready to start moving aside hall-of-famers for a guy that’s played 80 games.
Next season…top-ten all the way.
I would take Kyrie over the following from that above list, purely as a scorer:
Lamarcus Aldridge
Deron Williams (He is perpetually overrated)
Steph Curry
Dirk
Kevin Love
Parker
Westbrook
Bosh
And he”s already close to Ginobli, Harden, and Wade
Dani, its true that its nice that he’s increased his playing time and usage without a fall-off. At the same time, you’d like to see a 20 year old improve more than just playing the same game with 10% more minutes and maybe an extra shot per 36. Its improvement, but very very moderate for a 20 year old kid in his second year. I guess there or some stats that say his D is improving, and to be fair once in a while he has successfully navigated a screen or two this year, which is better than last year,… Read more »
I wanted to stay relatively modest in my appraisal, so I went with top 20. Top 10 is pretty high praise. Ahead of Kyrie or in the conversation of being better than him are:
Lebron, Durant, Chris Paul, Carmelo, Kobe, Tim Duncan, Harden, Westbrook, Ginobli, Tony Parker, Wade, Bosh, Love, Nowitzki, Steph Curry, Lamarcus aldridge, deron williams.
That’s 17. Top 20 was absolutely said as a huge compliment. You guys could all knock 8 guys off that list with no reservations? Sure, Nowitzki’s hurt, but you’re going to kick him to the curb already?
I agree with Ryan. He is a Top Ten offensive player RIGHT NOW. The one thing that bothers me this season is that he is over-dribbling. A lot. It’s as if that viral vid if him schooling the Dream Teamers went straight to his head. His defense has been better but he still let’s his guy penetrate far too easily and often.
I also worry about his inconsistent PG “game” but then he and his mates are so damn young, any “worry” at this juncture is bound to be over-blown…
He’s making incremental improvements on defense. His game against Atlanta was possibly his best game ever on defense. He has the quickness and court vision to impact the game like Chris Paul on defense, and he seemed to realize it that game. That’s the most frustrating thing about Kyrie’s defense. When it’s bad, it isn’t lack of talent, it’s lack of focus and effort. Hopefully he learns how to stay engaged on defense consistently. Great podcast here by Simmons, Rose, and Dave Jacoby. http://espn.go.com/espnradio/grantland/player?id=8826763 One phenomenon they discuss is “hiders” on defense: Steve Nash, Jason Terry, Andre Miller… These are… Read more »
Personally, I think that saying Kyrie is a top twenty offensive player is a tad bit of an insult. There’s no denying that his defensive abilities are at times laughable, yet we’re still talking about a player who can flat out score from anywhere on the court. He’s currently sixth in the league in PPG, and it’s not like he’s throwing up uncontrolled lay-ups or contested jumpers, like that of a Russell Westbrook, leading to an inefficient field goal percentage. Rather, I would contest that Irving’s offensive game is perhaps in the same company as that of LeBron, Durant, and… Read more »
Been looking at Synergy stats, which I didn’t know were available free (http://mysynergysports.com/), and they have the following to say about the Cavs on defense: Andy: 0.71 points per play allowed (17th overall) TT: 0.74 points per play allowed (30th overall) Walton: 0.75 points per play allowed (37th overall) <—http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/53195/the-defense-of-a-shooter Miles: 0.85 points per play allowed (150th overall) Kyrie: 0.85 points per play allowed (150th overall) Sloan: 0.86 points per play allowed (164th overall) Casspi: 0.90 points per play allowed (229th overall) Samardo: 0.92 points per play allowed (250th overall) Pargo: 0.93 points per play allowed (261st overall) Livingston: 0.96… Read more »
Nathan from DEEP in the Stats!
I don’t really think it’s fair to say his per-game averages don’t matter,\ because he’s playing more. Retaining efficiency with greater usage is essential to the development of a young player, and it shouldn’t be taken lightly, or not as an accomplishment.
I’m not worried at all about Irving. He’s awesome. Sure we can nitpick some stuff but he’s super young still. He’s great and going to get better still.
In other news, I’m going to the game tonight!
It’s a great thing that he’s scoring more with the same efficient shooting (his FG% is practically the same and his 3pt% has gone up) despite carrying a bigger load and trying to do more with opposing defenses keying on him.
He’s 20 years old. We shouldn’t be discouraged by this kid figuring this stuff out on the fly right now. Give him time. Another year goes by and he’s still defensively terrible then we can start to be concerned.
to me its a bit troublesome that none of Kyries numbers have improved significantly from last year, and his defense has only gone from worst in the league to simply atrocious. I still got the faith, but I want to see some marked improvement before the year is out. Guy has MVP potential, he’s gotta a lot of work to get there though.