I Can’t Rebuild. I’ll Rebuild.
2013-05-08Mike Brown’s first hiring came with a clock. Cavs owner, Dan Gilbert, fearing his newly christened coach lacked a certain ability to grasp conceptual metaphor, was kind enough to bring an actual, physical clock to Brown’s introductory press conference. The clock, Gilbert explained, symbolized that Brown, even before he coached his first game, was “on the clock” and was expected to win immediately.
By Brown’s second hiring, Gilbert believed that we all had grown cognitively enough to interpret signs and symbols without his help. Either that or he just forgot the clock at home. There absolutely was a clock at Brown’s second press conference, though. Only this clock when it tolls, assuming that the clock had some sort of alarm function on it (and there’s no reason to believe it wouldn’t because … well, Dan Gilbert can afford really nice clocks), it tolls not for Mike Brown, but for CG.
Chris Grant firmly hitched up his GMsmanship to Brown and the next two years will basically decide whether or not Grant sticks around to further rivet the girders of his Cavaliers Rebuild blueprint. If Brown instills some manner of offensive and defensive identity (preferably a good ones) into the team of young players Grant has acquired since Brown left in 2010— and if those identities lead toward better professional basketballing in Cleveland, multiple playoff appearances, contender-dom, etc.— it will be hard to not give Grant a good deal of the credit. His run is identified by controversial (but generally agreed-upon in hindsight) draft picks, largely static off-seasons, long-term salary obligations wiped away from Cavs’ spreadsheets and a cupboard now bursting with future first rounders. It’s also featured a three-year run of some pretty terrible basketball but, at least on paper, Grant seems to be a man who can GM with above-average efficiency. He’s done arguably better than expected. No Jim Paxson, he.
But what if all that still isn’t enough?
Being a successful GM, we believe, is about vision— about being able to identify players who will excel for your team at a better clip than the person doing the same job in 29 other NBA cities. The great GMs are 20% Nostradamus and 80% used car salesman: drafting wisely, winning trades and wooing free agents. But what they really are is 100% lucky— lucky they came around at the right time, lucky they chose at the right spots in the right drafts, lucky their guy didn’t get hurt while the other team’s guy did. GMing is a skill— clearly some people are better at it than others— but just like the players they use to fill out their rosters, NBA GMs, even those disposed to being good at their job, need the right situation to succeed.
In much the same way as people say things like “Michael Jordan would score 45 a game with today’s hand check rules” or “Mikan would have been destroyed by Russell, Wilt, Shaq… heck, even by Tyler Zeller (cough… cough)” when comparing a player to prior or future generations, there can be arguments made for “What would Sam Presti have done with his Westbrook pick (fourth overall) in the 2012 draft?” or “Maybe Chris Grant would have gotten the 2004-09 drafts right.”
The following is a completely useless exercise, but I do it because, while completely useless, it’s also extremely fun to think about: what if the Cavs had the first round picks they’ve had the last three drafts over three consecutive years of a more talent rich period in league history (see, when I say “completely useless” I really mean it…)? That would be the first and fourth (2011), the fourth and 23rd (2012) and, l0ttery results not withstanding, the third and 19th (2013). So far, Chris Grant has used those picks to draft Kyrie Irving, Tristan Thompson, Dion Waiters and traded the 23rd and two 2012 second rounders for Tyler Zeller (17th overall). You all know this. Right. Of course, you do. But— again, purely for fun and in the spirit of the old “the Cavaliers never surrounded a certain someone with any talent” argument— let’s see who the Cavs would have drafted if they underwent an identically slotted rebuild in the 2003-2005 drafts.
2003 would have netted the Cavs LeBron James (still a wise pick) and Chris Bosh (huh, I wonder if they’d be any good playing together?). In 2004, they would have drafted Shaun Livingston (hey, we know him!) and— wait a second— the Cavaliers, just like in the future, trade up to the number 17 spot to select Josh Smith. Finally, in 2005, the Cavs get Deron Williams (who will end up getting Paul Silas fired just one year into the start of the 10-year contract extension the Cavs coach signs in 2007) and Hakim Warrick (yeah, I know… this is where this game gets decidedly less exciting). Three of those players have been multiple all-stars and a fourth (Smith) is often in the snubbed/nearly-made-it debate. Now, that there’s some franchise changing talent. It also happened to be available (along with others) in these drafts.
At the start of 2006, the Cavs have the theoretical rotation of Williams, Livingston, James and Bosh (all on inexpensive rookie contracts) plus Zydrunas Ilgauskus (oh, don’t worry, Carlos Boozer, picked in 2002, still ends up doing his bizarro Robin Hood robbing-the-blind-to-feed-Carlos-Boozer act and is no longer with the team). What the Cavs had, you’ll remember, was the much more real-feeling (in the way in which reality comes with its lumps) rotation of Eric Snow, James, Drew Gooden, Ilgauskus and over-paid versions of Larry Hughes, Donyell Marshall and Damon Jones.
Sigh.
I realize I’m not blowing anyone’s hair back with the wild assertion that having a bunch of high draft picks in strong drafts is better than in weaker drafts, but it leads me to a couple of broader “like Cavs in the hourglass” issues to consider:
1.) Maybe sometimes effective rebuilding isn’t possible. Are we really saying “If Chris Grant is really the tops— if he can GM better than other people GM— then he will be able to build a contender here regardless“? Clearly, that’s what his boss says, but is it really true? If Phil Jackson would have coached the Bobcats last year, how much better would they have been? 30 wins? A playoff team? Probably not. Likewise, as much continued success as I wish for (and, okay, pray for … I mean, like, a lot) Kyrie, Dion, Tristan and the gang, what are the chances that we came to our “build through the draft” organizational strategy during an uninspiring time for amateur ball players to be turning pro? What if being an NBA GM at this particular three-year stretch is the equivalent of coaching the Bobcats? Scary thought. If Chris Grant loses his job because the team does not improve markedly over the next two seasons, maybe his press release goes something like this: “Um… and what would you have done exactly?”
2.) Being back in the lottery for the third straight year is not a good indicator of future success. Lottery picks are good to have. No one is disputing that. That is where most franchises start to turn it around. However, one of the reasons the Cavs did not pick so high again after drafting LeBron— and why Oklahoma City did the large part of their building over two drafts [correction: the Thunder took James Harden third overall in 2009, making it three straight trips to the lottery just like the Cavs— however, over the prior two drafts they added Russell Westbrook and Serge Ibaka in 2008 and Kevin Durant and Jeff Green in 2007. Green was later traded for Kendrick Perkins, so I stand by the statement that a “large part” of their rebuilding was over two drafts but, yes, Harden is also really, really good.]—and why, heck, you can even extend this to Indiana with Roy Hibbert and Paul George: drafting franchise changers tends to change the franchise for the better rather quickly and so, when we look at how successful teams are built, we often find ourselves looking at one or, more likely, two drafts.
The Cavs are in their third consecutive lottery. That looks a lot more like the Minnesota model or the Sacramento model than the OKC model. Chris Grant is on the clock. Mike Brown is on the clock. This whole team is on the clock.
Magic loves everyone but Mike D’Antoni. He rarely says critical things about players. He’s like the Gorilla Monsoon to reality’s Bobby Heenan.
@Gordon, name the two players that aren’t as good as Kyrie that would give us a better than even chance to win it all. I didn’t say Noel or Wiggins were better than him, I just named the early faves to be the #1 picks in the next 2 drafts. DWade won twice and wasn’t the best player either time. If K2 is our best player and Dion and TT are our 5th & 6th best guys then I’m with you. There isn’t a hard and fast formula, I just figured if we had someone better than K2, we’d be… Read more »
I respect Magic a lot as a player, but I’m not convinced that he’s a good judge of talent. It’s always a good thing to hear that an all time great thinks that Kyrie can be among the best pure PG’s ever, but I wouldn’t say that Magic has a great/proven track record of really evaluating/analyzing/developing talent. So I consider what he says, but don’t put a lot of weight in it. I honestly think his personality is one where he naturally praises guys and is more positive and ‘glowy’. Barkely (who I also respect as a player) seems to… Read more »
@KyrieSwIrving – Magic and Jalen said it this season at the All-Star break. Because they watch the guy play and realize he’s an incredibly rare and special talent. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_WFMqv95IA Couldn’t find the full video. Just before they break him down in that video (or just after) they talk about him at the desk with the other guys and say he could be the best pure PG ever. I think Magic Johnson and Jalen Rose know something about that. You can make sarcastic comments all you want, but the point is, anyone who has watched this guy play knows he’s rare.… Read more »
Green was pretty immediately respectable on the much better Spurs when we got rid of him. That was an abject failure. He’s gotten better since the trade went down, but even immediately the spurs knew how to use him in helpful ways that the cavs for whatever reason just didn’t. It might have been a case of being on a better team with higher expectations forced him to play/practice within himself, whereas here he maybe thought he had to do more. I don’t know the reason, but I do know we gave up a good young player for nothing.
It easy to judge draft picks, trades and contracts in hindsight. However, many of our previous choices were considered smart moves at the time of the trade. Larry Hughes turned out to be horrible but at the time was considered a great move. Jamison was considered the ‘final piece’ needed to win a championship when we got him. Andy’s current contract was a joke at the time we extended him, now if he was healthy the contract would be considered cheap when looking at his production. OKC go lucky that they chose second in the draft, otherwise they would have… Read more »
I tried to post these ideas earlier but comment monster has other ideas. @Robert. Awesome job conveying the position of thfranchise, gm, and crucial players. I think you were a little stern in comparing the cavs rebuild to Sacramento and Minnesota ( had we drafted knight after kyrie or targeted multiple players with character issues in college that might be fair) ultimately I agree with the idea that we don’t know what the cavs will be and maybe the optimal time to ‘be bad’ didn’t fit their timeline. I support grant and I see a great deal of direction is… Read more »
Most teams don ‘t start with the cupboards as bare as they were when lebron left. The Cavs had traded every single young asset they had to try and win now, most teams have a few ancillary pieces in place. We had none.
@ Swirving
“Brown doesn’t seem good at corralling ISOs”
True. But in his defense, he was dealing with LeBron and Kobe. LeBron would choose to go ISO a lot, and would ignore plays called in by Mike Brown (got that from an old Windhorst podcast). With Kobe…well, no explanation necessary. He probably won’t get as much resistance from Kyrie.
and speaking of Windhorst podcasts…here’s a new one
http://www.stationcaster.com/player_skinned.php?s=70&c=476&f=1387951
@Robert. I liked the post. It’s hard to convey the no man’s land the Cavs look to be in and you did so effectively. I do however disagree with your closing statement about us being more sacto or minnesota than okc. Those two strung together perplexing draft selections, signings, and trades, so much so that you had to wonder if they cared basic principles of roster building. No one knows how successful the rebuild with be in coming years but grant didn’t draft both kyrie and Brandon knight in the same draft or target every guy with character issues. For… Read more »
The Kings pick is protected top 13 in 2013, top 12 in 2014, and goes to top 10 the next 3 years (2015-2017). If the Cavs do not get it by 2017, it reverts to a 2nd round pick that is 55-60 protected. Also Danny Ferry tried for Ray Allen and Michael Redd, but LeBron never even tried to get them to come to Cleveland. In 7 years in Cleveland, LeBron never once tried to get players to sign in Cleveland and alway had 1 foot out the door (signing contracts with ETOs). In the first 7 days as a… Read more »
Your excerise (as you said was incredibly pointless) would not have netted those players. Lebum would not have let us pick that high in the lottery to nab Livingston maybe Smith. Then we would have never been in the running to nab Williams, which if you remember correctly, Lebum begged Ferry to jump up and pick his boy Chris Paul, but the Cavs just didn’t have the assets to trade to pick up those players. I understand the theory you were trying to play out. My favorite is sitting on Wikipedia and reviewing past drafts. Where we were, who we… Read more »
Biggest Concerns about Kyrie being the best player on a championship: Kyrie Plays ISO ball way too much and no defense. Championship teams hardly ever go ISO and they all play defense. I hope Mike Brown lets Kyrie know that. (at least the defense part, Brown doesn’t seem good at corralling ISOs)
Well if Magic or Jalen said it its indisputable! And they probably said it his rookie year, where they were expecting normal rookie progressions and instead got the slightest of increases in productivity. I love Kyrie’s skill set, but the guy isn’t a pure point gaurd right now, he’s a score first pg. And he plays no defense. If both of those things change, then he can definitely be the best player on a championship team. But he’s got to show more improvement than he did from year one to year two from now on to get there. Here’s hoping.
Gordon, we’re not getting a #1 pick with that, the reason we don’t have it yet is because it is top 10 protected (roughly, higher right now, goes down to 10 I believe in 2018) until 2018, if we don’t get it by then, we don’t get it. I think there is a hich chance of that… Sac Sucks! hopefully we can use it to sweeten the pot enough to pull off a trade. Still, considering the obvious economic principle of devaluing future returns, it wasn’t a win considering how much better at basketball Hickson is over Casspi.
@Knob – Magic Johnson and Jalen Rose have said he could go down as the best pure PG in the history of the NBA. Kyrie is a once in a decade caliber player, so I sincerely disagree that he cannot be the best player on this team to win a championship. Nerlens Noel? He’ll never be the “go to” guy on an NBA team, or at least not on one that wants to go far in the playoffs. He’d be a great complement, but if you’ve ever watched Kyrie or Noel play, you’d realize that.
Many of the above are upset because the Cavs have not made the classic blunder of getting a quick fix to get to the middle of the pack, and being stuck there forever. Fortunately DG is allowing CG time to build a powerhouse with smart players and no head cases. Next summer is the time to sign a couple top free agents and go for it. The best thing that can happen in 13-14 is for MB to teach the crew to play some D. Some of the suggestions, such as packaging TT + ? for DMC are totally insane.… Read more »
I like Kyrie a lot, but I don’t think we can win a championship if he’s our best player. Whether the best one is LeBron, Noel, or Wiggins, we need to get lucky.
Less commas, more sentences.
It’s luck. IT just so happened that Kevin Durant came into the league as a chucker, bad defender, and not much else so that team got to be bad a couple more years. Then, starting in the second half of his second year, things started to turn for him. It’s like, it’s better if your superstar player take a couple of years before realizing he is a superstar and sucks at the beginning. Just luck.
Barnes had a PER of like 11 for the whole of the regular season…hard to say he was a great pick yet…
@Rob – keep in mind the Casspi for Hickson trade was not straight up. We hold a lottery-protected first rounder from Sacto for the next 3, maybe 4 years (possibly through 2019?). Right now I’ll agree, Casspi for Hickson was a loss. But if we end up with a #1 pick out of it and land that pick, it could end up a big win. The jury is still out.
The day any GM or coach is hired they are on the clock. The majority are fired at some point. It’s still to early to know the longterm effects of Grant’s moves.. The Kings haven’t made the playoffs for 7 years. The Timberwolves haven’t made the playoffs for 9 seasons. It’s a bit premature to compare the Cavs rebuild to either of theirs. Minnesota and Sacramento repeatedly missed on draft picks. It doesn’t appear that Grant has missed on any of his draft picks thus far Zeller included. Centers get paid. If Zeller can be a competent backup center it… Read more »
@ Tom
I tend to agree that we shouldn’t trade multiple kids for a vet, unless we get blown away by an offer.
I think I would rather watch the development of Tristan and Dion than trade them for, say, Kevin Love who hasn’t been healthy since the ABA/NBA merger. At the very least, we should see how they play early next season before making a move.
Now, if CG can flip Zeller and a bunch of picks for a borderline All-Star, I’m all about it.
Chris G made one of the greatest trades in history by trading Mo for Kyrie. He needs to stay here a long time even if he screws up the next pick. There is a reason other gm’s hate dealing with Chris. In the last 30 years we have had two championship chances blown by two huge mistakes each time. Both times the owner screwed up one and the gm blew blew one. In the 80’s it was the owner who insisted on dumping Harper and we got little in return with Ferry. Then the gm blew it by trading way… Read more »
@ Cadavalier
I’ve been saying all along that the Cavs will make that OKC-esque leap to 50 wins next season, regardless of who is coaching. All they need is decent health, some reasonable improvement from the younger guys, and the addition of at least one decent rookie and one solid veteran. Playoffs or bust.
@ KyrieSwIrving
Casspi ended up being useless, absolutely. But we weren’t going to resign Hickson and now we have Sacto’s draft pick to help us trade up in the draft or bring in a veteran. I still consider that trade a win.
The trade was with the Kings. Grant still has more to show for the deal than the Kings ever did.
Nice article — “luck” not withstanding, Chris Grant is absolutely on the clock because this is the season we really need to see marked improvement via the managerial decisions he’s made over the last few years. He may not necessarily have “hot seat” pressure, but this is likely the year by which Chris Grant is defined as a GM. By the end of the ’13-’14 season, there will have been ample time to truly evaluate the career trajectories of draftees such as Kyrie, TT, Dion, and Zeller, as well as the effects of their newly hired coach, Mike Brown. Grant’s… Read more »
Nice writeup, I certainly agree that this year will serve as a barometer for the team’s future success. I think that we’re not quite into Minnesota/Sacramento territory yet, but if we have another down year we’ll be there. Unless this team shows signs of being able to contend for a playoff spot then I think it is time to question the viability of the current core. It won’t be the end all be all for this roster, as there’s enough improvement players show in years 3 and 4 that they probably can take an extra year to get playoff ready.… Read more »
Hey, the new guy is negative too! Whodathunk it??
Btw, just when I had a dream that we could get Glen Rice Jr at 19 and that he, along with Porter, would give us a fail-safe 3 position (at worst he’s Matt Barnes. At best, he’s his dad), I now see that he has climbed Ford’s draft board. Telling ya, this kid could end up in the lottery…
Whereas Casspi will be signing a long term deal this offseason… in Isreal.
Knicks: The Amare contract…Trading away assets for Anthony when he probably would have signed there in a few months anyway. Cashing in their amnesty on Billups when they should have saved it for Amare….Taking Jordan Hill ahead of Derozen, Holiday, Lawson, Jennings…Trading away the draft pick before Paul George… Warriors: Biedrins contract…Trading less years of Stephen Jackson for more remaining contract years of Richard Jefferson…Drafting Udoh ahead of Greg Monroe and Paul George… Bulls: Boozer contract…Letting Asik walk… Thunder: Trading Harden for 50 cents on the dollar when they still had him for another season on his rookie deal and… Read more »
I wouldn’t really call the Hickson/Cassepi + pick trade a loss. Hickson wasn’t the player then that he is now and his market value now is pretty questionable because he’s still a big who can’t defend or hit a midrange shot. The Kings gave up on him after four months. He signed a masssive one year deal for this past season.
Every GM misses. All of them. You can look back at each team currently in the playoffs and find a mistake in the past five years. Miami-Taking Beasley 2nd in a loaded 2008 draft. He was a stud in college but there were red flags from the rip and he most likely tried to smoke weed with those red flags. Love and Westbrook were available without the baggage…The Haslem, Anthony and Miller contracts look terrible two years later. Memphis-Repeatedly screwed up and still might come out of a deep Western Conference. The Thabeet pick…Trading Love for Mayo then not using… Read more »
I don’t agree with CG being on the clock, as your wrote “His run is identified by controversial (but generally agreed-upon in hindsight) draft picks, largely static off-seasons, long-term salary obligations wiped away from Cavs’ spreadsheets and a cupboard now bursting with future first rounders.” Until they make a major move, i.e. spending spree in FA, or flipping assets for a marquee player, I think his job is safe. To Nate’s ‘Batting Avg Approach’ here is how I would grade his moves: 1. Drafting Kyrie over D. Williams: WIN 2. Drafting TT over JV/the field: Jury is stil out but… Read more »
No, SwIrving, 45 would be just fine.
And, Nate, I like your weighted average idea. I read the whole “Chris Grant is on the clock” thing somewhere following the Mike Brown hire and it just made me think, “Really? I’m pretty sure he’s done well. Could he really be gone in a couple of years?” GMs, like Wallace, as you point out, have been given a much longer leash and done much worse things with it before, at least in his case, getting it right than Grant will have, even if he bombs the next two drafts.
Chris Grant is on the clock in the same way that every person in the NBA is on the clock outside of the owners. Ya, if he has an extended run of no performance and not much hope for that to change he will be replaced. Just like everyone else in a sports organization with an owner who wants to win. Right now he’s pretty much exactly where everyone, including his boss, thought he would be, and it certainly is a crossroads. But it was a planned one, its not like all of a sudden he’s feeling the pressure. Calling… Read more »
I agree with your assertion that Chris Grant is on the clock, and I also agree that much of GMing comes down to pure dumb luck. Chris Wallace made some horrific draft picks and decisions with the Grizzlies: trading Kevin Love for O.J. Mayo; Hasheem Thabeet at #2; Xavier Henry, Dominique Jones, and Greivis Vasquez in 2010, and then trading the one who was actually good (Vasquez)… But because of the Mike Conley, the Marc Gasol throw-in; picking Zach Randolph off the scrap heap; and Houston trading him Rudy Gay for Stro Swift and Shane Battier, Wallace gets to continue… Read more »
One of the hard part of evaluating GMs is that the moves they don’t make are often as important as the ones they make.
And, hey, if we jump to 50 wins in Kyrie’s year 3, like OKC did in Durant’s, I will retract it all.
Year #2 of Durant era was about as crappy as year #2 of the Irving era.
Grant is not on the clock. His boss, Dan Gilbert, has clearly stated that the organization knows what we all know which is that there are only three ways to improve-the draft, trades, and free agency-and the windows of opportunity can be very narrow. We have all had the opportunity to see how Grant operates, so there should not be any surprises as to what he will do next. Besides drafting wisely the past two years, he has accumulated assets that should be the envy of every other NBA team(a possible 7 1st round picks over the next three years… Read more »
Okay. Yes, you got me on the OKC drafts. Harden completely flew out of my head while I was doing this. You are all on point.
Grant is the only one truly on the clock right now.
As to the 2006 scenario, Bosh and James have grown a lot since that time. Nothing says those guys would have the Cavs winning championships or that Livingston’s knee somehow doesn’t explode because he is on the Cavs. You could tell Ferry wanted to manage similar to Grant now but he felt immense pressure to “do something” by Lebron and then in turn Gilbert. With Bosh AND Lebron wanting extensions something might have had to give. Remember that Andy held out.
And if you picked 2006 to start we’d have Bargnani, Tyrus Thomas, Mike Conley, Shaun Willaims, O.J. Mayo and JJ Hickson. Its a very silly exercise. If we draft well this year, I like our chances of out performing that. Hell, even if we draft two stiffs I think Kyrie, TT, and Dion can at least match that. I don’t know where you are getting this CG on the clock from. What gives you this indication outside of our recent woeful (on purpose) records? Its not like Grant went out on a limb for Mike Brown, Gilbert wanted him back… Read more »
OKC most definitely had the same picks that we have had/will have (including this year). They picked Durant #2 overall in 2007, Westbrook #4 overall in 2008, and Harden #3 overall in 2009. Sprinkle in Serge Ibaka and that is a very similar situation as the Cavs. I guess you could say that we had multiple top 4 picks in 2011, which would have been similar to Durant/Westbrook or Durant/Harden in the same draft – but regardless, a very similar track. We will now have FOUR top 4 picks (assuming we draft in the top 4 this season) on the… Read more »
I remember the “Boom goes the Dynamite” guy dropped Hakim Warrick’s name in his legendary sports round-up. I’m not sure I’ve ever seen him play or even know what he looks like.
And now I feel ashamed. Warrick has played over 10,000 NBA minutes!
I the Cavs can just suck one more measly year – they can nab a franchise player in the 2014 draft.
Smart trades (especially in this brave new salary cap/luxury tax world) should enable smart GMs to have a shot at a lottery pick any year they want. CG still has some stockpiled for even after the Cavs should be competitive.
I’m not so sure I would agree with the Sonics/OKC being built in 2 lotteries. They drafted Durant in 2007, Westbrook and Ibaka in 2008 and Harden in 2009. That is three straight high lottery picks by my count… I really don’t think we are in a bad position considering the talent in these last 3 drafts hasn’t been nearly as good. And honestly, how often do franchises hit on three straight lottery picks? You have to assume at least one of them will not become what you had initially projected. I would hope that we are out of the… Read more »