The Wood Shop: Best Lineups/How I learned to Love Liggins and Williams
2017-04-14It’s playoff time, and the fact that the Cavs were 10-14 since March first is behind us. They stumbled this season. Defensively, they finished 21st in the whole league. Even the one-sided Rockets defended better than them.
However, there was a high point this year. LeBron James, in his 14th season, finished the year averaging highs in assists(with 8.7 per game)and rebounds (with 8.6 per game). He also hit 36.3% of his 3s, which is the highest he ever has drained in a Cleveland uniform. The King is still the King, maybe even a robotic and ageless one, and until proven otherwise I’m going to keep believing he can turn on the “switch” I hear so much about.
This season, more than anything else though, has just been confusing. Tyronn Lue seems to favor playing groups that feature all offensive players. The team’s defensive rating and the blown leads every fan knows all too much about, specifically a 26 point one to the Hawks’s second unit just this week, support that observation.
What’s really sad is that this team just doesn’t terrify with offense first groups. They win plenty, but they aren’t generating “best in the league” talk. There’s a common element in the Cav’s best units, a defensive minded man or advantage.
The unit of DeAndre Liggins, LeBron James, Kevin Love, Tristan Thompson, and Kyrie Irving had the second best net rating in the league of any group that played over 100 mins. Their net rating of +28.3 is second to only the Warriors’ Big Four and JaVale McGee‘s rating.
That unit is the Cavs starters minus J.R. Smith. Liggins isn’t the sole reason that group succeeded, but there’s something to be said for a player who will guard the ball baseline-to-baseline and doesn’t care if he ever gets to shoot it. Replacing Smith with Liggins in the starting lineup resulted in the net rating going up by 22.7 points. I’m sure many of those points are directly because teams couldn’t get instant transition points.
Let’s look at the Cavs jumbo group. When Lue trotted out James, Kyle Korver, Richard Jefferson, Derrick Williams and Channing Frye, the league was trampled. Up until February 25th, those five played 34 mind blowing minutes with a net rating of +44.1. They used their massive size to switch everything and mess with passing lanes against opposing second units. Offensively, LeBron drove and dished to one of the four above average shooters on the perimeter. Since the end of February, that group has played just five more minutes. They currently have a +35 net rating.
While none of those jumbo players is necessarily a plus defender, they are all lengthy enough to stop initial penetration and mobile enough to help each other out. That lineup is the best Cleveland unit of all that have played above 30 minutes.
It’s easy to look at these two groups, and say that they’re simply anomalies. The first probably isn’t given how many minutes it played, but the jumbo group may be.
However, the two-man data certainly supports the idea that Cleveland’s best groups feature a defense first/hustler guy.
Four of the top five duos for net rating that have played over one hundred minutes together feature Liggins or Derrick Williams. Seven of the top ten feature one of them.
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This lineup data is scary when you think about how Lue did rotations this year. First off, Liggins isn’t even on the team anymore and he was barely playing as soon as the Cavs picked up Deron Williams. Secondly, Derrick has played zero meaningful minutes since late February.
And, It’s not like Lue had some other lineup or secondary players that were blowing teams out of the water. That gets to my final thought before the playoffs start.
In the coming weeks, Lue needs to experiment purposely with who is on the floor and not just use a lineup because “why not?” There’s lots to consider with a group.
He needs to ask who can score. Who needs the ball? Who can defend? Who enjoys pressure? Who has an electric high five and who works better fist pumping on the bench?
Thankfully, Lue isn’t alone in all this. I’m here to at least offer a suggestion. Closing games out has been an issue for Cleveland. Like most teams, they usually have their starters in or some slight variation of their starters in to end the night. Well, Lue needs to abandon that completely.
LeBron James is the Cavs. He should also be the offense. Kyrie Irving could also be the offense. Unfortunately for fans, isolation ball works for the Cavs, so they should embrace it full force. Kyrie is in the 94th percentile for isolation plays and LeBron is in the 76th. You can give either of them the ball and tell them to just score, and there’s a good chance they will get a bucket half the time.
That’s enough offense when the rest of the lineup is focused solely on stopping another team. Essentially, the other guys on the floor need to hold the opposition to 45% shooting, run through concrete enforced picks, and hit an occasional open shot. Can Lue slap together a group that does that? Can he yell at a group until they do that? Probably.
And, when a team has a guy that can stop Kyrie or The King from scoring solo, Lue can play both of them and find three other guys to stop the opponent. This isn’t a viable style all game, but if a game is tight, this is what Lue needs to do.
It’s not pretty ball, but Cleveland stretched the 2015 Finals to six games doing this. They won the 2016 Finals this way; the entire team decided they were going to defend their butts off two minutes at a time when it mattered and then Irving hit “the shot” to win it. Let’s see what Lue does Saturday.
All stats from NBA.com.
I’m not shocked that most pundits are picking the Raptors to beat the Cavs in round 2…but i am a little miffed. We won a friggin title last year after trouncing the East…raps got to 6 games because we coasted for two of them…yeah we’ve played poorly for a couple months…but put Michael Jordan on our team and make it 1996…do the pundits start saying we’re washed up and ready to crumble at the hands of Jeff Van Gundy’s Knicks? Th lack of respect for Lebron James and Kyrie Irving and Kevin Love is ridiculous. We have been injury riddled… Read more »
I agree with you, they will probably lose against the Warriors in 5 or 6 but I also believe that the Warriors will win all of their playoffs series in 5 or 6 games.
Maybe the reason we lost Delly and Liggins is because DG called Cols for advice, and Cols replied that “they suck”.
In my opinion, this analysis easily shows Lue’s lack of coaching experience and hard headedness. He’s incapable of sticking to a known good rotation when all the numbers show it works. If it’s not the “starter/payroll” one he won’t give the players the time to jell and as we have seen, he will stop the flow (of the game and rotations) on a whim. He’s he’ll bent on playing Schump, for God knows what reason and waiving Liggins to bring is D. Jones(who I actually like) is a head scratcher. So the question is, is it Lue, LeBron or Griffith?… Read more »
Lebron on Liggins and Delly in December. ‘”What Delly gave us was grit,” James said. “Delly gave us a grit like ‘I don’t care what y’all say, I’m out on this floor to defend, I’m out on this floor to make plays and no matter what y’all say that I can’t accomplish, I’m gonna try to overachieve that.’ “We lost that in Delly and rightfully so for the first part of the season, first few weeks we was missing that. Liggs gives us that. He gives us that pit bull out on the floor that’s like, ‘I’m here to just… Read more »
Well my cavs have no heart this year should have kept liggins and nixed Shump. Not even going to watch this year no team has the complete fortidue as warriors. Sseshh that was hard, warriors used to be ok with me
Imagine a playoff line up of Liggins, JR, Lebron, Derrick, and TT. Defensive juggernaut, everyone can switch everywhere.
Better yet- Liggins, JR, Lebron, TT, Tavares. No way anyone ever scores on that.
Isn’t it interesting that Lebron seems to be cold to players who are defend first guys? He was like that with Delly and now with Liggins. Does he get frustrated at them being unreliable offensively?
I could be forgetting, but when was he cold to Delly? I remember him saying during the 2015 finals that he was never going anywhere without Delly again.
Delly would have been a Cav if Lebron really wanted the way he wanted JR back.
Joining the chorus of comments on WTF with Liggins and Derrick. I said on one of the live threads that how the heck does a player go from starting 19 games and guarding Curry on Christmas to then riding the pine before being unceremoniously cut right before the playoffs? And we need athletic wing defenders. I sure wish one of the reporters had asked Griffin the other day about this baffling mystery with Liggins, and why Derrick isn’t getting playing time.
Ordinarily, counting on magic is a long shot. But, with LeBron, anything can happen. It is not unlikely that LeBron, KI, KL, and TT all play at top level, which was enough last year. But they need a lot more. I would not be surprised if JR returns to form just in time. He is that kind of guy. I will be surprised if Shump gets it together. We need some good games from the other guys. Here is a total long shot for our daydreams: Edy turns into a game changer already this year. That will cause DG to… Read more »
With LeBron, anything can happen. But this sure isn’t the way most of us expected things to go. It truly looks like Lue is in an altered state. Anyone can see that the Cavs played a lot better with D-Will1, and especially Liggins. The only conceivable thing Lue could be thinking was to hold them out for a while to see if he could jump start Shump, JR, and D-Will2, and then go back to starting Liggins and playing D-Will1 if that didn’t work. Well, it not only didn’t work, but they cut Liggins. The only theory I have heard… Read more »
The Liggins thing is puzzling, especially considering all the chances that Kay Felder got this year to be the backup pg.
This has been probably the most baffling part of this whole season. I thought Lue was hiding these lineups until we waived Liggins. At that point, I just threw up my hands in frustration. Truly, I have no idea what to expect.
I mean nobody coaches like that. You don’t sit a guy on your bench for half the year and then start using him in the playoffs like some secret weapon. Everyone in the league know who Liggins is and what he brings. Beyond baffling.
Cutting Liggins was beyond stupid. Not playing Derrick & Liggins meaningful minutes was dumb. Lue adheres to two conflicting ideas: 1) The regular season isn’t that important & 2) Overplaying vets & underplaying younger players during games. Makes no sense. Raps in 6.
Nail on the head. If the regular season doesn’t matter, why play Lebron so many minutes? Why ride an injured Kyrie for over 40 min against the Hawks? He seems to take the easy way out, play the superstars into the ground and then throw up his hands and claim the losing is an effort issue. Effort is the issue, and fatigue, only fixed by utilizing what could have been an outstanding bench and experimenting with other lineups. Tired players(Lebron) turn the ball over, they don’t rotate on defense, they take possessions off, they hold the ball and jack up… Read more »