Cavs Get Jamison and Telfair
2010-02-17
Windhorst has the report, initially from the Washington Post. Apparently it’s a three-team deal. The Cavs are getting Jamison, the Wizards get Z’s expiring contract and a first-rounder from the Cavs. The Clippers are the third team involved, and will be sending Sebastian Telfair over to the Cavs as a part of the deal.
Much more analysis on this deal is coming. Obviously, Jamison is somewhat of a consolation prize compared to Stoudemire in the eyes of some. Steve Kerr and Danny Ferry are close. I assume that if Ferry gave up, the Suns had made it fairly clear that they weren’t going to deal. Waiting on some information regarding that, however. The Cavs didn’t give up Hickson, and if they do get Z back they gave up almost nothing of significant value. In both front-office and basketball terms, this was a lower-risk move for the Cavs, albeit one with a lower ceiling.
This move puts a ton of additional pressure on this postseason. The Cavs got the upgrade they were looking for without touching any of their major assets. Now all they have to do is win.
if amar’e was a smokescreen, wow danny ferry wow. Way to tug at my heartstrings, you had me on Pins and needles. Best smokescreen of all time. Now turn around and trade Jamison + Wally + Danny Green + JJ for Amare and Jason Richardson. Get Z back and it will be Daniel Plainview instead of danny ferry. I DRINK YOUR MILKSHAKE. I DRINK IT UP.
This is a better trade than Amare for a few reasons: Antawn’s not a head case, Antawn will bust his butt in the playoffs, he can shoot 3s, we didn’t have to give up Hickson, and he can play the three. As for the difference in true shooting percentages that Krolic referred to, I think that most of that comes from being the primary offensive weapon on an offense that isn’t as prolific as the suns. Imagine this defensive lineup though: Shaq, Andy, Antawn, Moon, and LeBron. No one under 6’7…
For some reason, my comments weren’t posting for a while. The CBA specifies that Telfair can only be traded on his own to another team, and cannot be packaged with other players, for two months (or essentially until season’s end).
Stabbed Z in the back? You know, if paying someone 100 million dollars to play a childrens game is stabbing them in the back, then I want to be stabbed in the back. He has played hard, and he’s been paid for it too. It isn’t like he’s been doing all of this for nothing folks.
Look, I don’t think we stabbed Z in the back. Z knew this was coming all along. We all did. We had to move Z to make the team better. I do think the team is better with Jamison and No Z than with Z and no Jamison. That said there are two big reasons I want Z back: The first being it just doesn’t feel right to not have Z on the Cavs and as the Cavs all time leading scorer and an all around good guy I want him to be there when we win the chip. Also,… Read more »
Rich has a point, although if Z didn’t find his way back it would be the worst thing to happen to a loyal athlete as any in the NBA.
Wow, apparently Rich is a robot who has no heart and enjoys seeing guys who have poured blood sweat and tears into our franchise get stabbed in the back and traded away to one of the franchises we hate the most.
Wow, so now we are worried about Z coming back? This has been the plan all year. Trade Zs expiring deal. You guys knew this from the start. I mean even if he didn’t come back the team is still better today than it was yesterday.
who wants to buy some DVDs??????
I feel bad. I hope he’s not mad. and does this mean they stop playing the LeBron Big Z puppet hand shake commercial. I love that commercial. We definitely have to get him back in 30 or I sour on the trade.
anyone else feel bad about trading big Z?? i hope karma doesnt bite us in the ass….. hopefully we get him back in 30.
D-Block, say hello to the D league for us.
Jamison is definitely old. And two years from now when he is in the third year of his contract he definitely will not be the player he is today. That’s not speculation, that’s a fact. But the beauty of this deal is that we kept Hickson. Two years from now Hickson will hopefully be a much better player and he will be getting more minutes. Jamison will have an expiring deal in 2012 that we can again deal at the deadline. I think this deal carried less risk than the Amare deal, and definitely makes us a better team. Maybe… Read more »
Rich: Jamison hasn’t had any significant playoff runs of any kind to add wear and tear on him.
I’ve said my piece. I’m getting killed for it. I’m through with commenting. I hope the Jamison deal proves me wrong. I’ll either be back to say I told you so or to beg everybody for forgiveness.
BradleyH says: February 17, 2010 at 6:37 pm Hey guys, I’m sorry not liking the deal. I never liked the deal for Jamison, except a couple of months ago when I mistaking thought he was 31 and had a shorter contract. I never wanted him in the first place. I think he’s a slight upgrade this year, but that it doesn’t hand us the title. And I think he’s a big risk in coming seasons. You can point to guys who have aged well like Nash but I can also point to KG, Ray Allen and Rasheed who have aged… Read more »
Can Telfair be moved tommorow or not? I dunno all of the trade rules.
Hey guys, I’m sorry not liking the deal. I never liked the deal for Jamison, except a couple of months ago when I mistaking thought he was 31 and had a shorter contract. I never wanted him in the first place. I think he’s a slight upgrade this year, but that it doesn’t hand us the title. And I think he’s a big risk in coming seasons. You can point to guys who have aged well like Nash but I can also point to KG, Ray Allen and Rasheed who have aged poorly. And Sheed and Ray haven’t even had… Read more »
Also, I agree with Mat. Way better to have too much than too little. Obviously four power forwards are too much, but until we get Z back I see a lot of Varajo rotating in at the 5 with Shaq, and Hickson and Jamison rotating in at the 4. Powe will get in where he gets in and depending on matchups and who we play he will get more minutes. He’ll kind of be in the same situation Jamario is in. Some nights he wont’s play. Some nights he might get twenty mintues. Also, The Cavs will definitely be giving… Read more »
In conclusion, the matchup possibilities are endless. And less chance for any individual player to get injured (as well as plenty of people to cover minutes).
I like the trade, especially because we don’t give up Hickson so we aren’t forced to mortgage the future for the present. Ric Bucher is reporting he thinks the Cavs wanted Jamison all along. If that’s the case then Danny Ferry has to get big ups for building the Amare hype with his buddy Steve Kerr. Prior to all the Amare hype the Wiz were asking for J.J. Hickson. Once the Wiz were afraid they would get stuck with Jamison’s contract they were willing to unload him for Z, and Ferry was able to sweeten the deal by getting the… Read more »
Telfair would be the odd man out in pretty much any situation now. Would not be surprised to see the Cavs buy him out, as he’s the 14th man on this team. I don’t think we’re asking Jamison to be a 20-10 (or 20-8) guy here. He’ll gladly reduce his role for the purpose of a championship. Let’s say we have Shaq, Z, Andy, Antawn, JJ, and Powe. That’s six bigs. Let’s say they’re vying for an even 100 minutes. (One of the smaller guys, like AP or Jawario, might fill in for most of the 8-10 minutes per game… Read more »
BradleyH is acting like the kid who didn’t get the leather Spalding basketball he asked for Christmas and instead got a leather Nike one. Get over it man. Age is just a number. Ask Steve Nash. People were saying that Shaq would be useless in Cleveland because he’s old. He’s still commanding respect in the paint. Jamison won’t have to shoulder the scoring load like he had to in Washington. Less pressure, less minutes, fresher come game-time, more effective. Throwing out numbers is fun and everything, but before you go bashing the move, let a month pass before we decide… Read more »
@bradley, jamison isn’t a shooting guard. he’s not here to shoot 40% from three. he’s here to be a versatile scorer that can stretch the floor. honestly, Z doesn’t shoot as well as Jamison anymore, but he still commands attention when he steps out. look at all the stretch 4’s in the league. how many actually shoot much better than 45% overall and better than 35% from three. Rashard – 43-40 Odom – 44-29 Murphy – 48-39 (career high fg%) Rasheed – 47-33 (career avg) Looks fine to me. A couple more open looks come his way, and he can… Read more »
@BradleyH I really don’t understand your negativity over this deal. I think keeping a level of objectivity is good in everything, and I think cavs fans have a tendency to overhype players and trades (a la larry hughes), but this is far and away one of the best moves ferry has ever made. It’s like finding a new pair of Jordan’s in the sale section for 2 dollars – there’s not really much to hate. Even if those Jordan’s only last you one month, they only cost you 2 bucks so it’s meaningless to complain. If by some rare possibility… Read more »
It’s pointless to speculate on what his raw numbers will actually be.
But what we do know, is that Jamison is an incredibly creative scorer that is not limited to style or position. Can’t say the same thing about Amare. I know his percentages are average at best, but one of our greatest assets is our flexibility – and he ADDS TO THAT. Amare would have required lots of things being different. And he WOULD NOT HAVE been OK with his numbers/touches being limited. Jamison could CARE LESS.
Tsunami & Rich: well said.
As others have mentioned, there are getting to be too many players and too few minutes … but I wonder if Ferry will try to do anything with Wallyz’ contract tomorrow?
Bradley – Larry Hughes has not had a PER above 14 in 5 season. Antawn Jamison has not had a PER below 17.5 in 5 seasons. It’s fine if you think he’s overrated. Wouldn’t you rather get an overrated guy dedicated to doing whatever it takes to win a title, who, by the way, will be a HUGE trade asset in 2 seasons as opposed to a guy that is overrated, me-first, a turnover machine, who comes with no guarantee that he will stay beyond this season, and (MOST IMPORTANTLY) you didn’t have to give up your best young player… Read more »
Bradley: I think you have legitimate concerns, but this whole alarmist business about the Cavs sucking, LBJ leaving, and the entire city of Cleveland becoming a sea of fire and pestilence (slight exaggeration) is just silly. As of about two hours ago, the Cavs were planning on going into the playoffs with a power forward who has ridiculous athleticism, but can’t defend, can’t hold onto the ball, and has yet to prove he can score consistently from 5+ feet from the hoop. I’d like Jamison to be a few years younger and his percentages to be a few points higher,… Read more »
Ok, quickly on Jamison then on to Telfair. POSITIVES of the trade: 1. We gave up nothing. There is no way you can tell me this team isn’t better this year. 2. It’s a stretch 4, the thing we’ve wanted for so long. 3. Jamison is a class act and really will not mess up our chemistry (Amare COULD have, who knows). 4. This goes back to giving up nothing. Hickson is a guy who we can clearly see has real potential. Eventually, teams have to develop some of their young talent. The Lakers made a lot of big trades,… Read more »
Tsunami, let’s say I forget about Amar’e All of those stats I posted about Jamison are pretty underwhelming. You can’t trade for a guy and expect him to all of the sudden shoot 40% from 3 and 50% from the field. And to grab 10-11 boards. Forget about Amar’e, I don’t like Jamison as a player. If people can call Amar’e overrated, why can’t I say Jamison is overrated and be taken seriously? I know he’s a nice guy, and a team first guy, but nothing indicates that he’s very efficient. Remember Larry was our 2nd or 3rd leading scorer… Read more »
Also, in case you haven’t noticed. the Cavs CORE is LeBron, Varejao, and Mo Williams. In 2 years that core will still be young and you can add Hickson, Gibson, and Danny Green. That is NOT A BAD TEAM. Who knows what will happen with Leon Powe. If he can fully recover from his injury (big if) he was THE BEST backup PF in the NBA and he’s only Lebron’s age. I don’t believe Stoudemire is nearly as good as people say. He is a great fantasy player and a great scorer. In case you haven’t noticed the Cavs aren’t… Read more »
We dont have the minutes, guys! Jamison is 20-8 guy when he’s playing 40 minutes! That leaves 56 for our 6 other rotation big men!
Bradley – you are only seeing 1 side of this. First of all, you are hung up on age. Jamison has seen his production stay steady the last 6 seasons. Amar’e saw a HUGE drop off 2 years ago. Even then many considered him very overrated. Jamison can play 3 positions, Amar’e can only play 1 really (Don’t try to tell me he can guard centers he can’t guard a traffic cone) Jamison can guard Rashard Lewis and Lamar Odom, Amare can’t. There was no guarantee Amare would have resigned here. in fact, my guess is he would not have.… Read more »
Jamison is a good player who will help, but there are still some questions here. A lot of Hickson’s trade value came from the fact that he was a starter on a team with the best record in the league. With Jamson in the fold, he loses that starting spot and his already “less than brilliant” statistics take a hit. This lowers Hickson’s trade potential in the coming 12 months. Jamison is 33 years old. He’s not a guy that is gonna run with LeBron (if he stays in Cleveland) for the next decade. Also, where in the heck do… Read more »
Don’t forget Leon Powe will be coming out soon. That gives us outside shooting similar to what beat us last year in the playoffs.
@ everybody. I just have a problem calling a guy 20-10 when that’s very misleading. First off, he’s not ’10’ he’s 8. His rebounding his worse than Andy, Z, Shaq and Celtic Powe and right on par with J.J. In short, he’s a below average rebounding PF. So is Amar’e, though. He averages 20 a night, but look at how many shots he takes. His TS% is 52%. He shoots 34% from 3. If you guys want to say that he has the pressure of being the offensive option on a bad team, that’s fine, but production is pretty consistent… Read more »
For the record, i too am giddy over this. Having Jamison around to school JJ in the next couple of years is also a big plus. I do have a question though. I remember Shaq saying he has 3 more years left in the tank after this year. Does anyone think Shaq might stick around and make the vets minimum or less money in general to get a couple more rings? Noone seems to talk about Shaq staying, but i for one believe that he is the biggest difference maker this year. And i absolutely LOVE him talking smack on… Read more »
Bradley, Tsunami borught up a great point a couple days ago that I think bears repeating. Gilbert is willing to spend. Going over the cap is nothing for him. If we look at the way the salaries shake out now, we’ll have $48 million or so committed in salaries, plus a hypothetical $15 million for Lebron, a few million for Z, and then extra salary for either Shaq or a Shaq sign-and-trade. That extra room at the top then gives us the flexibility to use our big contracts remaining (in this case, Jamison) to flip for younger talent that’s locked… Read more »
Colin and (especially) Bradley: I’m not seeing the reason for negativity here. Or, on the flip side, you’re both ignoring the very large possible downside to acquiring Amare: he and Shaq don’t mesh, chemistry suffers, Cavs get bounced early (again), both he and LBJ walk. Age: sure Jamison is older but Amare doesn’t exactly have a “young body” despite his younger age. Contract: yes, Jamison makes a lot, but the Cavs would have to pay Amare max dollars to keep him beyond this year (even then, there’s no guarantee he doesn’t bolt for someplace like Miami). I’d rather have Jamison’s… Read more »
@ George: If Miami gets Stoudemire, the Heat don’t have the room for LeBron–you can’t have 3 max contracts.
I’m not sure why people are hating on this deal. We got Jamison for the 30th pick in the NBA draft (worthless). We are already the best team in the NBA, and now we just got significantly better. Would amar’e have been nice? Sure. But like the above said, he is lazy on defense and really is only about the money. With Jamison we get someone who has been playing on a terrible team going through a ton of controversy and still putting up good numbers, now playing with double team magnets Lebron and Shaq? Game over.
@george
are you high? how do the heat have the money to sign wade, amare and lebron?
And you know what else occurred to me? The Wizards may decide to screw with the Cavs and not buyout Z. They would have the final say in the rivalry with that. The Wizards are easily the worst trade partner for the Cavs in that aspect.
I don’t know why Cavs fans are happy about this. Amar’e will get traded to the Heat, who will have enough cap space to possibly sign LeBron. Where do you think he goes? He’s been talking about wanting to play with the best. Do you think he’ll want to play with Mo, Andy, and the old guys Z and Jamison? Or do you think he’ll want to play with Wade, Amar’e, and Beasley? Seems like a no brainer to me. Hope you enjoy seeing a Cavs led by Mo, JJ, and Jamison next season.
This is a good trade and I think better than people realize. For one ,in three years when Jamison starts to decline, JJ will have grown into a strong true starting PF, allowing Cleveland to be a dynastay. (However, Cleveand will need to pick up another big man to take Shaq’s place in two years.)
**I don’t think Danny Ferry is done trading yet. I think he really wants Corey M as his startiong SG.
sorry, for the rest of you out there who remember the last lockout. that joke was in poor taste. lockouts are sad. @bradley, having Jamison around is important because JJ is not ready for the role we’d need him to play in a finals run. he’s also important because he’s versatile. as far as guys playing at 34 and 35, it’s less of a concern than it was 10 years ago. jamison has been relatively durable and he doesn’t play an overly athletic brand of basketball. he’s playing with Lebron now, so he’s a role player, albeit a potentially very… Read more »
Love this deal- anytime you can add another Tar Heel to your team you gotta do it. I was never sold on Amare- too much baggage and likely only a 5 month rental. Go Cavs!
This is a great deal for the cleveland cavaliers. Puts them over the top. Already beat the lakers twice without this guy. Didnt even have Mo one of the times. Cavs all the day this year. Watch out Nba!!!!
also, let’s not forget that the final year of jamison’s contract is probably gonna be locked out anyway.
@ spencer, I know there are big questions about Amar’e, but how is Jamison on his way to being 34 and 35 not a concern as well? They could have not done anything. And what’s the point of having J.J. around if he’s going to sit behind Jamison?
@Nathan, Ever consider putting Jamison at the 3 and Lebron at the 4? Small ball is all about matchups. This basically just means that the cavs gained another potential matchup advantage. Would you rather be running Jamario and Lebron in the small ball lineup, or lebron and Jamison? @BradleyH You win titles with veterans who want to win. I’ve watched Amare in Phoenix since he was a rookie, and his eye is always on the paycheck and glory. I’ll take a couple solid years of Jamison over Amare’s post pay-day attitude any day of the week. And I’m still confident… Read more »
Exactly Colin. Jamison doesn’t deliver the Cavs the title this year (neither did Pau in his 1st year as a Laker and Pau is approx. 100 times better than Jamison). And if they don’t win this year, guess who’s killing their cap room and will be 34 and 35 years old? That’s right, Jamison. But it’s okay, everybody, Jamison is a nice guy. He wears a Santa hat when he vists sick kids during Christmas so no need to worry.
@BradleyH:
My thoughts exactly…
I tried to tell myself not to get too upset if they didnt get Amare because they were definitely getting Jamison in that case, but…..
I just can’t help it.
Amare would have been the missing piece. Jamison is very good, and he may very well help us to a title this year. But Amare would have kept us as the top team for the next 5 years minimum.
Also..people that whine about Jamison age: you basically got Jamison AND Talfair for nothing, since Z is coming back anyway.C’MON…
Congrats to Cavs fans from a Laker fan. I really like Jamison as a player and even though he is old, he should fit in perfectly and puts the Cavs in the perfect position to win it this year. Honestly, I didn’t like your team last year (even during their most dominant streches) and I thought my Lakers would def beat them. Now this year..I’m more worried (not yet panicking like some Laker fans) and now with this trade… (along with Kobe’s wear and tear of two straight trip to the finals and the olympics). I still like our chances… Read more »
If anybody had hopes to get LeBron multiple titles so he could compete well historically, they pretty much just got shot in the face. Let’s enjoy the aroma of 35 year old Jamison on the Cavs in a couple of years.
i think they make another trade for a 2 guard
no he has 2 years left after this year
bring the title home cavs please!!!!!!!!!!!
I think there is a HUGE part that people arent keying on in this trade…
Jamison has an expiring contract next year, boom, Ferry pulls off another epic trade next year after we win the title this year.
another trade for the 2
i think we better watch out for denver i think they can beat the lakers in 7 we better watch miami if they get amare
Love this deal. The Cavs get a class act who can provide what they need, a scorer from both outside and inside who can rebound. Lebron should feel that the cavs are trying to win and this helps in keeping him in Cleveland, which is for the best for the NBA.
Great job Danny Ferry. Wish the Spurs could pull something like this off.
i like this we should win it all have a good vacation z see u in 30 days . this makes more sinse than the amare deal u dont change the team i wonder if they do anything else
its a wrap, lebron and the cavs r bringing it home.cavs win it in 6 against l.a.
Meh, kind of a let down, but we kept Hickson. Assuming we get Z back in a month, who gets his minutes until then? Varejao?
How good is Telfair? Is he good enough to take Boobie’s minutes (slim as they may be)? I don’t really like that we added another very short guard, but if he’s not going to play then it doesn’t matter.
Cavs at PF/C position:
(going by current mpg averages)
Shaq: 23 minutes
Z: 21 minutes
Hickson: 19 minutes
Jamison: 39 minutes
Powe (08-09): 18 minutes
Varejao: 30 minutes
Jawad: 13 minutes
Total: 163 minutes
Available at PF/C: 95 minutes
% minute reduction (if each player loses the same amount): 42%
This leaves the following numbers:
Shaq: 13 minutes
Z:12 minutes
Hickson: 11 minutes
Jamison: 23 minutes
Powe: 10 minutes
Varejao: 17 minutes
Jawad: 10 minutes
Oh yeah…whats the Cavs best line up? Small ball with James at the 4? Forget about that…
Hey John, can’t quite remember, but haven’t you always been a fan of Bassy (or am I thinking of someone else)?
On a related note, a friend of mine just informed me we now have, quite possibly, the two most hyped highschool prospects ever… pretty amazing, actually.
I’m totally fine with this so long as they dont do what the celtics did, win a championship (no, that bits fine, they can do that) and then try and repeat it a year later, and a year after that, with a core of pensioners who only get older. If shaq and jamison bring it home, awesome, but they have to spend next summer bringing in a team that will win it year after year, getting stronger and stronger.