Blowing Up the Cavaliers
2014-02-02This started as a fun experiment. It became progressively more painful.
Wednesday night, I emailed fellow TrueHoop bloggers, representing 18 NBA teams, explaining an article idea consisting of trading Kyrie, Dion, and Tristan. Fire Chris Grant and Coach Brown, too. The Cavs had just embarrassed themselves against Phoenix and New Orleans, and the Luol Deng trade, instead of a rescue boat, looked like a rearranging of chairs on the Titanic. Instead of parsing out who was most to blame, who should stay and who should go, the team would start fresh, including shipping out their biggest trade chip, Mr. Irving, for a large return. The goal was to see what new team could be put together, as well as gauging the trade value of the youngsters.
What ensued over the next few days in Cavalier-dom was farcical, resulting in my endeavor being almost perversely comical, and probably embarrassing for myself in the process.
First, I will note that there is probably an underselling for each trade; as individual trades, I wouldn’t be extremely excited about any of them. After the first offer came in though, I began envisioning how the remaining guys could be parlayed into a well assembled team. Plus getting great trade value when attempting to blow up an entire team in one weekend, as that team completely unravels, is not ideal. Let’s assume that in each scenario, each Cavaliers players’ value is not completely realized.
Things started reasonably well, as almost immediately an offer came in for 2-time All-Star Mr. Irving. Michael Schwartz of Valley of the Suns offered Goran Dragic or Eric Bledsoe, either Morris twin, and two first round draft picks.
Honestly, I didn’t hate it. There’s an immediate replacement for Kyrie, with a guy that today is definitely a better two-way performer than Irving, plus three other pieces, possibly to use in other trades. The hard decision was Dragic or Bledsoe. Bledsoe is out for four months following knee surgery, and considering the recent knee problems for dynamic young guards, and his impending restricted free agency, I settled on Dragic. The Slovenian point guard met a lot of what I was seeking; a veteran, in his sixth year in the NBA, but not old, only at 27. He is a high quality performer, nearly a Western Conference All-Star, averaging 20 points and 6 assists on 60% true shooting for the surprise Suns. Also, he’s durable, missing only eight games in the last three seasons. And finally, he is under contract for next season at a very reasonable $7.5 million (with a player option for 2015 – 2016). Of the Morrisi, I settled on Markieff, the bigger brother, who has converted 34% of his 300+ career three point attempts. At age 24, his PER is 19 this season, if you’re into that sort of thing. Ultimately, I viewed him as lure in a three-team trade; more on that later though. For the first rounders, the Wine & Gold snagged Washington and Indiana’s 2014 picks.
Again, as a one-off trade, I wouldn’t like it, but envisioning the lineup of Dragic, Deng & Andy, plus the wing shooter and stretch-four that I was surely going to find, I could imagine it working. Onto the next one…
Initially, no offers came in for Tristan, so I began feeling out teams on my own, trying to turn Thompson into a solid two-guard, hopefully with a nice shooting touch. I reached out to Brian Robb of Celtics Hub about Avery Bradley, a 35% career three point shooter and an elite defensive guard. My offer was turned down. My other target was Wayne Ellington, plus an additional young player. Bobby Karalla of hickory-high and mavsoutsider obliged, eventually settling on a deal of Ellington plus Shane Larkin, the 18th pick in the 2013 draft. Bobby may have been willing to throw in a draft pick, too, but haggling over future assets didn’t seem worth it; I was working on a deadline. Anyways, Ellington is 26, a 38% career three point bomber, and APM considers him a reasonably above average player over the last two-and-a-half seasons. He had the best stint of his career in Cleveland last year, playing with the Herculoid-ian group of veterans, smart with their passing and cutting, and that was exactly what my little experiment was forming for Cleveland. Larkin is only 21, a young, speedy point guard; a nice project behind Dragic to groom for the future.
I kind of liked it. The backcourt shaped up as Dragic, Ellington, CJ Miles, Jarrett Jack, and Larkin. The first three guys were veterans in their primes, all in their mid-twenties, while Larkin added a dash of exciting youth. And Jarrett Jack, well, he’s still Jarrett Jack, but hopefully he re-finds his niche by playing regularly next to off-ball players in Ellington and Miles. This group’s combined salary this season is only $20 million, with all but Miles under contract next year, for a reasonable price of $18 million.
Now, all I needed to do was turn Waiters and Markieff Morris into a veteran stretch-four. A Dragic – Ellington – Deng – Veteran Stretch Four – Varejao lineup sounds interesting; hopefully enticing enough for Deng to re-sign at a reasonable price. The team still has plenty of youth in Larkin, Tyler Zeller, Sergey Karasev and Anthony Bennett. The eight guys under contract for 2014 – 2015 (Dragic, Varejao, Ellington, Jack, Larkin, Zeller, Karasev and Bennett), plus Deng at $10 million, cost less than $47 million in salary. So let’s add a stretch four, or maybe a rim protecting big.
Like Thompson, none of my fellow bloggers made an offer for Waiters. Then, as the weekend wore on, news became progressively worse. First, on Thursday night, the Cavs lost by thirty on National Television to the Knicks. Friday morning, Zach Lowe tweeted about Dion’s poor transition defense. I thought, “dammit, everyone of these guys follows Zach Lowe”. I sent an email explaining that Waiters was horrible last year, but has made progress this year. Cleveland was even 2.7 points better per 100 possessions with him on the court; he’s not necessarily allergic to defense, but definitely needs maturity, focus, and good coaching. Anyways, the next day, Jonathan Givony of draft express, tweeted an article discussing the impact of Syracuse’s zone on their players’ pro prospects. In one tweet, he mentioned that high steal rates led many people to overrate Dion Waiters’ defense…I thought, “Why can’t one day go by without a high profile basketball writer negatively name dropping Dion Waiters…I’m working on hypothetical trades here!!!”. I followed Mr. Givony’s tweet with an email to my co-bloggers, noting this Sports Illustrated article, pointing out the positive impact Waiters had on the ‘Cuse defense…two of the last three seasons, his team has performed better at bucket-stopping during his stints. I certainly wasn’t arguing for Dion as good, but he is not allergic to defense.
Still no movement on receiving an offer. Then, Saturday came. Oh, infamous, infamous Saturday. First, the New York Daily News article on the franchise’s dysfunctionality, featuring the fact that Dion was kicked out of Wednesday’s practice. Then, a Jason Lloyd article about the team’s dissension, including teammates growing tired of Waiters’ act.. “Son of a biscuit”, I thought, “Why can’t you all wait another day. I have a silly article concept to finish?!”. Even my pseudo-Cavs team seemed cursed to failure. I sent a final email to my cohorts, pointing out Dion’s charity work in Cleveland and Philadephia last summer, as well as his apparent adoration of his young son.
My dream scenario involved turning Waiters and Markieff Morris into Thad Young of the 76ers. Young, a solid two-way player, is another young, durable veteran. He’s only 25, but is a seven year veteran and has missed 10 total games in the last four seasons. As a power forward, he converted one-third of his nearly 500 career three point attempts. Both Dion and Markieff are from Philly, and are recent lottery picks. If any team could bite on the increasingly devalued Dion, it had to be Philly, who is definitely #tankstrong.
First, I reached out to hoop76. I have corresponded with them before, as their editor wrote the Thad Young article linked above. He was non-responsive. Perhaps he was on vacation. Maybe he has a lot of email to catch up on. Or possibly, he was insulted. No one offered anything for Dion…and now I pissed someone off with a low-ball attempt featuring Mr. Trade Poison, aka Dion Waiters.
Seeking some level of confirmation or rejection, I reached out to Jake Pavorsky and Jake Fischer of libertyballers. Mr. Pavorsky first responded to my offer, unfortunately saying, amongst other things “I want no part of Dion Waiters”. Flashing my poor reading comprehension skills, I upped the offer…still no dice.
A stark picture was being painted. No one wanted Dion Waiters. He was radioactive. That was almost the hook of this article, but then, a miracle. After some negotiating, Mr. Fischer decided to accept Dion Waiters. The deal was Thad Young for Waiters, Markieff Morris, the 2015 Miami 1st rounder, and swapping Orlando’s 2014 second round pick for Brooklyn’s 2014 second round pick. After contacting three different people, and upping the offer to my final and best, I fake-dealt the now radioactive Dion Waiters. The three team trade looks like:
- Cleveland gets: Goran Dragic, Thad Young, Washington and Indiana’s 2014 first round picks, Brooklyn’s 2014 second round pick
- Phoenix gets: Kyrie Irving, Earl Clark
- Philadelphia gets: Dion Waiters, Markieff Morris, Miami’s 2015 first round pick, Orlando’s 2014 second round pick
Blowing up the team was painful. I didn’t like it. I sold low on everyone. But I’ll take it. Something major was going to change, and quickly. This article was on the calendar for Monday.
Young is also under contract for next season, raising the potential ten man payroll to $56 million. Those ten are:
- PG: Goran Dragic, Jarrett Jack, Shane Larkin
- SG: Wayne Ellington
- SF: Luol Deng, Sergey Karasev
- PF: Thad Young, Anthony Bennett
- C: Anderson Varejao, Tyler Zeller
With CJ Miles and a relatively minor deal to improve frontcourt depth, after some adjustment, that may form the third best team in the East right now. Other than Varejao, they are all 27 and under. There are four rookie or second year first-round picks, all hopefully learning and improving from bench roles. The entire contingent is about $5 million under the salary cap, and the team has six 2014 draft picks; three in the first round, and three in the second, plus the full allotment of draft picks in future years, as well as keeping Memphis’ future first rounder. Ideally, those 2014 assets (salary cap and draft picks) are converted into bringing CJ Miles back, plus trading for a veteran basket defending center, while also bringing aboard two more rookies. The rookies could take a place in a mature team culture, learning on the job from the bevy of savvy veterans.
Oh, and Matt Dellavedova would still be around. Call me, Dan Gilbert. This franchise will be fixed fast. I work for cheap.
@ Mallory, Kenneth Faried and Tristan Thompson are essentially the same player but with different hair. Points and rebounds guys who put in a lot of effort and work. TT’s offensive stats would look better if he was in any sort of offensive system that made it easy to get baskets.
Mallory-My point was that taking the 2nd best player when everyone thinks your going to take the best player is a bigger whiff than taking the 2nd or 3rd best player when that person isn’t really being considered. You guys keep pretending that everyone would have developed the same here. That Faried would be Faried or that Leonard would be anything more than a glorified Alonso Gee here. I’m skeptical of that. Love would still be love in OKC. Everyone thought he going to take Love. Presti didn’t and whiffed getting an All-star when he could of grabbed a 1st… Read more »
Aaaaand Faried has 27 points in a win against the Clips. When was the last time TT did that?
Rodney,
Whiffs would be Grant selecting Waiters over Drummond or Lillard. Or Grant selecting TT over Faried, or Leonard. Or taking Bennett over anyone in the 2013 draft. Yet you still are defending Grant? Grant must of spiked the Kool-Aid he served to you.
Why is Luol Deng leading the team in minutes tonight, with over 40 in a blowout, when his sore Achilles prevents him from practicing at times?
Yeah, but they are both all-star level players Rodney, Presti hardly made a big a whiff as say Milicic over Carmelo or something along those lines.
Let just point to something topical, how damn good has Monte Ellis (Dion’s recent comparison) been with an actual fully competent NBA coach? Seriously look at his stats, it’s quite frankly stunning, drives up and stupid shots are down.
Rodney,
What are you talking about? It’s not a whiff if you select one all-star over another. Also, it’s not like Love has exactly lifted the Wolves to relevance. He still hasn’t brought them to the playoffs.
I also think that Liliard hit his ceiling already and will never be the best player on a contender. I’m a big believer in Heyward and want to sign him this offseason. I’d nominate Waiters as the most likely 2012 draftee to break out. I also think that Bennett will turn into a NBA player.
My point is that Presti whiffed when he took Westbrook over Love but he’s not faulted
I’m very confident that Grant was trying as hard as possible to trade the Bennet pick and couldn’t. I agree that they should have signed some better players last year but after the Grizz trade it didn’t seem necessary. I think that this past FA period was a disaster and is the biggest blight on grant’s record but I’m suspicious that Gilbert and Brown had something to do with both Bynum and Jack. I was a big Robin Lopez fan. I would have tried to sign Korver maybe offering 2 million more on the deal he got. I also don’t… Read more »
Mallory I said people Drafted in the top 10. I missed Henson but do you really consider him a star. His ceiling is Ibaka in my opinion and I have a lower than most people’s opinion of Ibaka but that’s me. I haven’t seen him play much.
Nate. I’m not commenting on the free agency or overall strategy just that your calling him bad for drafting the best (exempting Bennet) of the bad an calling Presti brilliant for drafting the 2nd best player available when a better player was the guy many thought they should take. I truly don’t buy Liliard but I’m in a huge minority there. I think that he’s hitting his ceiling right now. Maybe he becomes a better passer but he’ll never be the best player on a contender. I agree that some players may break out from 2012 but I’d nominate Waiters… Read more »
This has nothing to do with the blowing up of the Cavs just a fantasy of mine… Obviously things more than likely would have not all happened this way but as I said this is just my imagination. If the Cavs would have drafted Andre Drummond (Like I wanted them to) and then Victor Oladipo (Since we would not have Dion Waiters) and then got Loul Deng in the trade (Which I love) our starting roster would have looked like this: PG Kyrie Irving PF Tristan Thompson SF Loul Deng SG Victor Oladipo C Andre Drummond *sigh* if wishes were… Read more »
Raoul, with respect, the job of the GM is to predict the future: to weigh the evidence and project. To anticipate. Good GMs will be right more than they are wrong. That’s the basis upon which they’re judged, often in simple terms of wins and losses.
These trades are terrible. I don’t want to build a team full of veterans and no stars with no chance of winning a championship. Yeah, building a championship team is hard,but you have to try because that’s the whole point of having a franchise. As a Clevelander, I just want to see a championship in one of the three sports before I die. A team that just makes the playoffs every year with no chance of winning holds no appeal for me whatsoever.
@Raoul the Spurs do it literally every season, why can they do it and we can’t?
The thing you Grant haters forget is that no one can be expected to predict the future. Every draft in every sport turns up players who turn out to be surprisingly good after a couple years. Now you promote the ludicrous idea that the 11-12-13 drafts were good, because Grant should have bagged up all the guys who turned out to be better than expected. Get real.
To Nate Smith’s point –
I wonder who the Cavs could get for their own #1 this year (Protected to 5)?
Everyone of these trades is horrible for the Cavs. You don’t go directly to other team’s fans to ask them about their players trade values. The endowment effect is real. Go to Realgm.com. Ask fans of third-party teams about the value of the respective players and you will get a more accurate assessment.
Paulie Carbone and jbk,
You know what is terrible and horrible?
The 2013 – 2014 Cleveland Cavaliers.
Rodney – What about John Henson, whose PER is currently above Kyrie’s? Klay Thompson? Kawhi Leonard? Kenneth Faried? (Who, by the way, rebounds similarly to Tristan and yet has a PER above 18). If you’re including Gallinari and/or Hayward, you should probably include guys like Kemba Walker, Sullinger, and Reggie Jackson, who is absolutely killing it right now. And this is from guys who are only in their second or third years, as opposed to Wall (in his fourth year and JUST finally putting it together), Curry (who was a senior and still only broke out last year)m Derozan (who… Read more »
Quite right, lawanddisorder. He can be traded, but only by himself, and not in conjunction with other Cavs players. My bad.
Nate, Deng can be traded. The restriction you’re probably thinking of doesn’t apply to the Cavs. We can trade him at the deadline.
I still think we would be talking about our teams chances to upset Miami or Indiana right now if we didn’t hire Mike Brown. I’m just gonna throw this blame all over the damn place because I can’t decide who’s fault it is. Maybe it’s my own fault for even caring.
Uh, Chris, the Cavs can’t trade Deng again. He will be a free agent again before they can trade him. The only way they could trade would be some sort of sign-and-trade scenario during free agency, for cap purposes. You’re putting Lillard in the Second Tier, Rodney? You seem like you’re cherry picking your data. A) you can’t evaluate 2013, yet (except to say that Bennett has been historically bad, and a third of the league whiffed on MCW), and 2012 is pretty early (still). Cousins and Harden didn’t really break out till their third year. But I digress. If… Read more »
To further Zeeks point. 2008-10. Players drafted in Top Ten.
Derrick Rose
Kevin Love
Harden
Wall
Westbrook
Cousins
Griffen
Curry
Brook Lopez
Second-tier stars. Possible 2nd or 3rds on the right team
Eric Gordon
Greg Monroe
Gallinari
Demar Derozan
Gordon Hayward
Derrick Favors.
From 2011-2013 stars in top ten.
Kyrie Iriving
Andre Drummond
Anthony Davis.
Second tier
Damion Liliard.
Terrence Ross?
Ya this clearly Chris Grants fault
This is th best idea ever I would also trade deng and get a first round pick also or him giving us a new chance and 4 first round picks. Then we just need a ne awesome talent evaluator someone who will pick good players and give us a chance versus guys that should be late picks. Please dan I watch every year and every year we suck. we need a chance and this seems like the smartest way if not we will just lose degad kyrie because they will not resign andwe will have a crapy team no picks… Read more »
@ Scott
Granted, that idea would have left too many PFs on the roster. At any rate, the main idea was to accquire Greg Monroe (who I think is just as miscast as Smith), and if they had to take back Josh Smith to do so, it might not be as terrible as it seems.
@Scott, Dion’s shot selection probably hasn’t been helped by seeing Jarrett Jack take stupid long twos so then Dion thinks to himself why can’t I do that. My biggest worry about the thought of trading Dion Waiters is that some how in some way it will come back to bite us in the ass. Just because that’s how things like this work. I mean I don’t know because I’m not in the locker room but who is the real troublemaker and cause of the dissension. I see no reason why there seems to be no accountability for bad performances. Why… Read more »
@J Hill Yeah, that’s sort of a part of what Rodney Mac and I are saying. The Cavs were at the top of the lottery in the years they were selecting. That means you have a big need for franchise game-changers. There were 8 game-changers at the top of the 2007-2009 drafts. There were 2 at the top of the 2011-2013 drafts. Draft depth matters to teams like OKC, Miami, Chicago, San Antonio who are looking to try to find serviceable roleplayers deep in the draft who can become contributors to contending teams. I really don’t think the whole “OKC… Read more »
It’s a lot easier to plug a player into an already successful team. I mean seriously I could play point guard for the Miami Heat. I mean I’d just stand there or cut and if I’m open LBJ would find me.
@Cody – I wasn’t being nasty. I was just poking fun at the fact that you seemed to want the Cavs to horde PFs. It’s true Josh Smith is much better player at PF than at SF. However, even as a PF, he’s a knucklehead who’s poor shot selection negates his other positives. Why do you think the Hawks let him go? I wouldn’t want Josh Smith on my team under unless I had a susperstar who was prepared to keep him in line. Otherwise, he’s a guy who’s a net negative factor. Some players are like that – they… Read more »
Great points Zeek. Drummond is the only guy I’d add on there even though he was drafted 9th. People at 1 point thought he was a candidate to go #1.
And again, I’m not arguing that 2011-2013 were all terrible drafts. For example, 2011 was in fact a very good draft. But it was very good in terms of providing good NBA roleplayers (the #4-8 guys on a championship level squad) as well as a few good 3rd options. Kyrie was the only superstar/perennial all-star that was really obvious pre-draft, which played a part in how many teams took chances on overseas players. Tristan is a decent 3rd option but right now is probably only a roleplayer on a championship level squad. Ditto JV, Kemba Walker, Klay Thompson, the Morris… Read more »
@Nate Smith You bring up some good points, but at the same time, how many GMs are going to draft guys that should have gone after the top 10 inside of the top 4. At least Anthony Bennett was being talked about in the 5-7 range pre-draft. I’m making a point that guys like Durant/Rose/Griffin/Horford/Westbrook/Love/Harden/Curry were virtually all talked about as being at the top of the draft or at least in the top 5-7 in 2007-2009. In 2007-2009, you basically had to just flip a coin and 40-50% of the time a top 5-7 pick turned into a perennial… Read more »
I have a question there was a lot of talk about offering up the Godfather trade for Love. TT, Dion etc. My only question, does that actually make our team better?
Nate the thing about picks 11-16 is they went to good situations. Kwahi Leonard still can’t really dribble and succeeds because he doesn’t need to. On this team he’d look alot like Omri Casspi only like a little bit better in on-ball defense but less of a shooter. Terrence Jones wasn’t good until he became the 6th or 7th option on a loaded Rockets team. The Morris Twins are in Phoenix which has magical water to make players better. Would you really rather have them and Alex Burks instead of TT? Klay thompson fell into a situaion where all he… Read more »
Edit: At draft time I thought they should take Derrick Williams not still.
I didn’t want Tristan Thompson, to be perfectly honest I didn’t even know who he was. He’s an awesome person and all that but if he’d been taken around 15th or so near Faried people wouldn’t talk so much crap (they both do the same thing but with different hair). I said it before I said it again, when I looked at the players I said I didn’t want an injured guy in Irving and I honestly thought that we should have taken Derrick Williams and Kemba Walker. Obviously Derrick Williams was not a great pick, but you can’t tell… Read more »
Good article. I think it underscores how overvalued some of the Cavs’ players are by its fan base. Many Cavs fans think Tristan Thompson is a “core” piece. Yet you were only able to get backcourt depth for the number four pick in the 2011 draft, including a guy the Cavs could have re-signed last offseason but chose not to.
I really loathe this analysis that the last three years were terrible drafts. They weren’t. Yeah, 2008 was a loaded draft, but Westbrook was barely in the discussion for top five, but OKC was smart and took him. Then where did they get Serge Ibaka? 24. And you want to talk about bad drafts? 2009 wasn’t great. But the Thunder were able to get one of the 5 all-stars. 2011 draft was pretty loaded, the Cavs just took a player who wasn’t that good at No. 4. Picks 11-16 appear to all be better than the guy they took. 2012?… Read more »
very well put in—— our draft years—–who would you want to build a team around kyrie or antony davis —-we needed #1 pick a yr later—-also at present there are about 5 teams “tanking ” for the potential # 3 spot ( or better )——go cavs
@J Hill More importantly, OKC tanked during years in which the top 3-7 picks had some real studs there including the guy who is about to displace LeBron for MVP. The first year they picked had Durant/Horford in the top 3; the next had Rose/Westbrook/Love in the top 5; and the 3rd year had Griffin/Harden/Curry in the top 7. That gives you great odds of getting a perennial All-Star if you’re drafting at the top of those drafts. You just have to hit on 2 or 3 draft picks out of the potentially 15 spots when 8 out of those… Read more »
The difference between the Thunder and the Cavs tanking methodology was that the Thunder tanked during draft years that were at the very least labeled Decent. We tanked over 3 years of some of the worst drafts.
@Grover, Houston is a team that had no superstar, was competitive and is now contending (albeit with superstars). The Nuggets also were Dark Horse contenders under Karl, with no superstar. It was about a year ago we were all arguing about whether tanking was the right choice. I thought tanking seemed like a pretty good idea, works in 2K it’ll work here. And then there were the folks who said no tanking is dumb and destroys players and coaches and it’s only really worked a few times. Well I’m not going to mention any names mostly because I don’t want… Read more »
@ Scott
lol…always cracks me up how people get nasty with other over the internet.
The whole point is that Smith is better suited and plays more effeciently at PF. Move him back there and the contract he currently has becomes less of an albatross.
Frank – I like the thought of Hayward. But the Jazz are high on him – he’s a long SF who can handle the ball, shoot, and play D. But he’s exactly the sort of player that needs to be next to Kyrie to give him some space.
That’s the real problem here – teams can collapse on Kyrie because there’s really no sure shooter on this roster.
@ J Hill
Seems like the Cavs are a backcourt/guard oriented team considering Kyrie and Dion are # 1 & 2 in shot attempts, 18.6 and 13.1. Having Smith and Monroe would help to balance that out. Providing a low-post presence (something they don’t have now) to help create space for Miles and Deng. So I don’t think you would have the same team.
As far as Brown….IMO, he should be let go at the end of the year regardless of whether they make a trade.
@Cody – Love your trade. Perhaps Mike Brown could play all FIVE of the PFs we’d have as a result of your (pretend) trade at the same time?
And, I agree, any time you have the opportunity to lock down a guy like Josh Smith – a world class chucker (who loves a 20 foot jumper more than Dion) with an egregious contract – you make the trade. And since we’d be giving Detroit Kyrie, perhaps they agree to send ud Jennings for our unprotected 2014 1st round pick?
Boom.
@grover just to play a little devil’s advocate… Pistons team with the billups-hamilton-prince-wallace-wallace lineup was a championship team with no real superstar, but I agree this is definitely an anomaly.
How about waiters and zeller for oj mayo or gary neil and larry sanders. We would get better rigth away with that trade. Waiters and zeller for young or turner and spencer hawes. The only thing I don’t like about this is spencers lack of defense. If we have to throw in a pick thats ok too. I think larry sanders would help are defense so much it would turn this team around right away. How about Hayward for waiters? I do think waiters will be a all star some day but if he can not play along kyrie than… Read more »
Kevin- You are correct about your lack-of superstar comment. Just because we don’t have a superstar doesn’t mean we can’t compete. Toronto and Phoenix are fine examples. I would also throw in Atlanta (still winning sans Horford) and a surging Utah. However….while these teams are improving- and in some cases, winning with regularity- these are NOT real contenders. In the NBA, you need a superstar to win a championship. That is a truism that cannot be logically rebutted. The Cavs only current shot at having that component- warts and all- is Kyrie. In the scenario of your article, I agree… Read more »
grover13,
Building for a championship contender is sooo hard. Certainly on some days, a team than can win 48 games year in and year out looks very nice, especially if the path to a (very, very maybe) championship looks like the last four years. The team can run on a treadmill for another several years and still peak at 50 wins, even with Kyrie.
I feel like you essentially have the same damn team, if Mike Brown can’t coach Dion what makes you think he can coach Josh Smith?
@ J Hill
Because…?
Cody I feel like that is a terrible idea.
I agree with Kojo.
Kevin clearly spent a lot of time and effort on this project. But, why? When you get a really dumb idea, you need to chuckle and not do it.
I disagree with Kojo and Raoul.
@ Kevin Josh Smith is having a really bad year for the Pistons, and Detroit would gladly move him if they could. …hold on, stay with me… I think the problem is that they are playing him at SF, which doesn’t suit him. In fact, they’re playing both Smith and Monroe out of position to make room for Drummond. Between Drummond, Monroe, and Smith, there’s no spacing. Do you think he’s got any value if he was moved back to PF and was able to play closer to the basket? What do you think of some type of trade involving… Read more »
Maybe everyone needs to pipe down about the guards and sending a max-12 minutes per night player to the D-league and key into two things: 1. DENG http://www.ohio.com/sports/cavs/cavs-luol-deng-upset-with-how-he-was-portrayed-in-report-mike-brown-liked-new-lineup-shuffle-1.463732 and B. DELLY (no link becos no one is keying into him). OK forget what I said about the guards, I agree with the drunk guy who kept yelling at the 76ers game I went to with my Russian-speaking buddy at the Q to “give it to CJ!” Yeah, just give him the rock, CJ is a poor man’s Ray Allen, isn’t he? He’s even got the smirk. PS if we trade… Read more »
Anyone else think the stories about our players being hungover are complete BS? I mean did someone see them out to dinner in NYC and maybe some of them had a beer or two? Probably, there’s nothing wrong with that. They don’t have to be awake until like 4PM on game day anyways.
I would take the new Cavs team 100 times out of 100.
My front court and guard depth solution: Jarrett Jack and Earl Clark (is he gone already? ) For Ilyasova and Gary Neal. Or my crap for your crap.
Rodney mac buddy. From your post and your remarks, its obvious you didn’t like my post but then why did you read it? Why would you waste your time reading and commenting on something you clearly didn’t enjoy. That’s the real question now isn’t it. Do you realize when you’re reading something, your eyes can’t pick and choose which comments it will magically skip over and which ones it will read. Much like your eyes wouldn’t let you skip over my post. Yes, fans always talk about their team duh. But the hypothetical trades that have permeated this blog over… Read more »
I didn’t expand on it much, but did mention in the intro paragraph that Coach Brown is gone, too.
To everyone saying, “no superstar…this team sucks”…who is Phoenix’s superstar? Probably, Goran Dragic. Except he’s not a superstar. Toronto has been playing great since trading Rudy Gay. Who is their superstar? The team at the end of this article, with an extra piece of front-court depth, can win 50 games.
And I agree with TV63, Mike Brown needs to go. Pull a Chud and move along.
Rodney Mac, I was one of those talking about getting Deng for a long time… Actually since last year pre-Bynum. . I think this article is kind of stupid. It’s well written, and you can tell it took a lot of time to do but I don’t really get the point of it? Maybe to show what other bloggers think of the Cavs assets? I think that final team is still terrible and the real difference is that it lacks a superstar. I love Goran, think he’s great. Thad is a good, young player. But if you aren’t going to… Read more »
RickOH why would you waste your time reading and commenting on a blog about something you clearly don’t enjoy reading and commenting about? That’s the real question. Not why would basketball fans discus ways in which they could improve their favorite basketball team if they were GM. That’s kinda what fans do. That and discus ways in which the coach should coach and the players should play. All of it seems equally frivolous but most of us enjoy it.
Impressive work. BUt you never addressed the most important element. The Coach. Mike Brown would still send your team in flames as well.
I’m pretty sure several people suggested Bynum for Deng. That happened.
Great article, BTW, well done
Wondereing what the Pistons were up to and mindful that the Cavs could get back in contention by sucking only slightly less against ole East rivals, I found their owner manning up and expressing disaappointment while still noting there is some kind of a plan for growth in place. Maybe Cavs expectations were too high this year…Also, Dan Gilbert hasn’t done this, and Chris Grant, hmm… http://www.nba.com/pistons/features/truebluepistons_140202.html
That team is still horrible.
I said it the day I first heard his name mentioned as Byron’s replacement, Mike Brown was the absolute worst coach for this team. The worst. It killed everything.
Hey, um, why don’t we just call up Pat Riley and offer them Waiters for a broken down Dwayne Wade? Waiters is supposed to be Wade-like anyways according to everything we heard when he was drafted. Now they have a younger, healthier one. And then we can offer them Kyrie and their own first round pick back to them because everyone is always saying they don’t have a point guard they can depend on. In return, we get Lebron. Oh, give them a half year of Luol too because he’s being a locker room headache around here. Then to finish… Read more »
I love the Irving trade actually. I’d take Dragic, Morris and 2 1sts for him. Though I think I’d try to include there 2015 pick.
Tristan and Waiters were sold really low but I get that your dealing with bloggers. I don’t really like Young so I particularly don’t like the waiters trade. What about Memphis I feel like Dion for Kosta Koufas and a pick might be good value. Anyway you could use Jack as cap fodder?