The Point-Fourward: Old Guys Need Days Off
2017-07-20Four points I’m thinking about the NBA and a bonus Rose…
1. Considering all the hoopla surrounding Lonzo Ball‘s footwear, it was fitting that he collected his Summer League MVP in street clothes. One might be confused into thinking that the thin young man is a Zoolander protégé. Though, considering his ability to pass with either hand, I suppose he is more of a Hansel.
On the court, count me as one of many who is more than a little concerned with Ball’s funky shot mechanics. It has been well documented that Ball’s shooting percentages suffer when he drives to his right. That cross-faced release is very difficult to get off with the defender automatically on his release side. He is much more accurate with his step-back jumper going left.
It is true that most right-handed players are more comfortable using the right foot as their step-back foot. It keeps the right shoulder in line with the target, thus mitigating a lot of left/right body lean problems. LeBron is a prime example. His natural fall to the left becomes a straight fall away when he shoots from the left wing. A fall away is always better than a lean.
That is why so many people are skeptical of Ball’s unorthodox stroke. It isn’t such a problem that his shot is nontraditional. The problem is that his kinetic chain is too easily disturbed. He may drill some beautifully high arching bombs, but when he misses, he misses horribly.
It’s not difficult to make him miss. Any good defender can pick up on release point consistencies, but it’s often more important to check landing points.
Most great shooters go straight up and down on their jumpshot. Still, many other fantastic shooters get that slight hip momentum going forward causing them to land a bit closer to the target. There are a slew of streaky shooters who rely too heavily on that hip momentum. Think Chandler Parsons pre-injury.
What great shooters all have in common is that they don’t move laterally. The Sports Science video doesn’t talk about his right to left body fade. The weight transfer isn’t quite as important as the release point, but it is still hugely relevant. Lonzo Ball jumps forward and left on every shot. His landing point is predictable for the defender and since his release isn’t super quick and is in front of him, he is particularly easy to defend. NBA players will closeout hard to the left side of his body and trust that his funky kinetic chain will do the work for them if Ball evades them to the right.
2. Sometimes one’s greatest talent hinders skill acquisition. Lonzo Ball has the softest passing touch on the rock that I have seen from a rookie in years. His otherworldly ability to flick the ball with appropriate velocity over great distances must have made it almost unnecessary for him to construct a normal shot. When the ball rockets effortlessly from one’s fingertips, hip-angle discussions must seem a bit superfluous.
Since Ball has yet to show any defensive ability or high-level Pick and Roll play in the half-court, I have a hard time anointing him as anything other than an exciting rookie with things to learn.
He is nowhere near the athlete or defender that Jason Kidd was early in his career. Honestly, he reminds me more of a tall Brandon Jennings than the Bucks’ head coach. I do expect Ball to be substantially more effective than Jennings, but he has a long way to go before he can be a crunchtime player on a Finals team.
3. As the Cavaliers look around the scrapheap for guys that could make an impact come Finals time, it is important to remember that some of those very same players will not be assets during the regular season. For all the very nice macro data we have for regular season play, much of it is rendered completely useless once the real season rolls around.
We have seen first hand how differently Kyrie Irving plays defensive in December versus June. While it is true that effective regular seasons by role players would help to keep LeBron James fresh for the silly season, it is more important for the Cavaliers to surround the King with guys that he can trust in big moments.
For as much as I have detested Jeff Green‘s game over the years, he did show up against LeBron’s Heat teams on more than one occasion. If there is any chance for the veteran to turn his career around, it would be with James in his ear. If nothing else, the Cavs have not seen a lot of lazy playoff play from role players during the LeBron 2.0 era. An engaged Green might make me not want to calmly close my computer. Again, I am NOT discussing the regular season.
With that in mind, Jose Calderon also has had the confidence to deliver in big situations throughout his NBA and International career. I don’t expect the Spaniard to be particularly useful for the 82 game slate, but he is the type of player LeBron can trust to nail a big three. And he does still get fiery at times.
4. Since youth doesn’t seem to particular interest the Cavs’ brass (whoever that may be at this point), it might be wise to look at another old man with supreme basketball IQ.
Boris Diaw has been a favorite player of mine for over a decade. His unique combination of skill and intelligence often hides his still incredibly quick feet. Utah recently waived the French point-forward after signing Thabo Sefolosha. He too might not be the most locked in regular season player, but Diaw has been consistently effective in the playoffs, often playing crunch-time minutes against the other teams’ wing superstar.
Diaw was crucial to the Spurs’ success in their destruction of LeBron’s last Heat squad. If LeBron likes Green because of his play as an opposing player, he should love Diaw. Boris may have lost another half step to age and wine, but he was still able to shut down Kevin Durant as recently as this spring.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwnbA1IyHhY
Green has never shown himself to be a particularly high IQ player, but Calderon and Diaw are both basketball geniuses with wine ice water in their veins. The Cavs haven’t always played the most intelligent basketball and they have had the tendency to get too uptight in the regular season. It’s possible that free spirits like Calderon and Diaw and a spirit free guy like Green could end up moving the needle by moving the rock. If nothing else, LeBron could get wine recs from his one time nemesis, Boris.
BONUS RANT:
For the second straight week, I have been putting the finishing touches on an article as Cavaliers news has broken. Last week, I was pleased to find that Cedi was to officially join the Cavs.
This week, I am in a mild state of shock, awe, and utter annoyance at the report that Derrick Rose may be coming to Cleveland. I am not going to pull any punches. Signing Derrick Rose would be a mistake. He is a high usage, low efficiency player on offense and a total disaster on the defensive end. Even before injuries sapped his explosion, Rose was a minus defender that struggled to grasp team defensive principles. Post-injuries, his diminished lateral quickness has made it all but impossible for him to guard opposing point guards.
But, he is DERRICK ROSE?! Yes, and that is a huge problem. It is helpful that he no longer has to live up to a large contract, but he has still yet to grasp his current place as an NBA role player. He provides limited play-making, zero floor-spacing and low IQ shots from the mid-range. Jeff Green doesn’t care enough to hi-jack an offense. Jose Calderon is too smart to do so. Derrick Rose will think he is the final part of a SuperTeam. Iman Shumpert‘s offensive forays in transition will seem pragmatic in comparison.
Rose can provide the occasional highlight leading less casual fans to conclude for the 14th time that “He’s baaack!” He’s not. And truth be told, he was never really that great to begin with.
Until now, I was quietly optimistic that the Cavs’ quiet off-season was a sign of patience and competency. If this signing goes through, the off-season looks more like it has been run by a dude who won his Fantasy League in 2011.
Kyrie for Lonzo?!?!
Haha. They want to chase Bron. Bron’s never playing with ‘Rie again.
Trade Kyrie to Phoenix for Devin Booker and some pieces
Not a bad idea.
Bledsoe, and parts.
Bledsoe won’t stay healthy.
Ya’ll think KLove is dancing in the streets?
No.
More like figuring out where he’s going to play next.
All I know is, this team is better when there’s chaos. That’s how I’m going to try and turn this into a positive.
Not so without a level headed GM.
Keep him. Run it back. Or trade him. As long as LeBron is on the team we are going to the Finals.
https://twitter.com/joevardon/status/888507820479524864
Ffffffffffff
You sure that is spelled right?
What is like the 6th best point guard in the NBA even worth? Whatever it is, its gonna be less than he adds to the team right now
FWIW: Kobe asked to be traded in 2007. Lakers refused and won championships in 2009 and 2010.
Remember when some didn’t think a GM was necessary…
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/888504508900179968
He’s been the acting GM since Griffin left.
I am for trading KI for young players and draft picks.
Who to? Maybe to Boston. They have all the picks, and a window of opportunity starting right now if the Cavs rebuild.
LeBron might not want to go for it with a young gang. Don’t know. He might also agree to a trade. If we could trade all the vets for rookies and picks, maybe that is the thing to do. Bring up the gang from the summer league + Cedi.
NO
Well, I meant that is one possibility. This has already been a wild NBA summer. If the Cavs have a yard sale, it will be off the charts.
It would be dumb. Cavs are right now by far the 2nd best team in the NBA and have a legit title shot.
What’s he going to do if we don’t trade him?! Just not mail it in and not try? Does he all of a sudden hate LeBron even though they seemed to get along pretty well before and have good on court chemistry.
Would definitely be more entertaining than the “Season of Huh?”.
What happened to the Ky posts?
By posts I meant member comments.
Are there some missing?
For some off reason my iPad was only showing 73 comments for over half an hour.
Your iPad sucks.
Sometimes the cache gets weird.
No wonder LeBron is evolving to be a wine expert!
Kyrie wants a trade…what do you think guys?is this the end
Maybe Griffin knew something
He doesn’t have a no-trade clause does he? How about Ky to GSW for cash considerations?
LeBron suddenly active on social media welcome to the circus everybody!
We’ll always have the shot…
Kyrie and Dan… It’s a confederacy if dunces
Just when we were about to duke it out over if we wanted Rose, KI throws the CtB crew into a blender. Taking over the ESPN page.
Well at least Altman is in.
Lofl
So Derrick Rose is the Cavs new starting point guard? (I just threw up in my mouth)….
God, I hope not.
Cleveland sports just CANNOT change. Even when we have nice pretty things.
https://twitter.com/joevardon/status/888487491925397504
If Kyrie wants to go to SAS, wouldn’t Leonard still be the #1 guy? Unless… wishful thinking.
Yeah I’d trade Kyrie for Leonard, even before he requested a trade.
By many metrics, Kyrie and Lillard are same, if forced Cavs should try Damian.
trollfan. Now is not a time for your contributions.
get your meds as raul says. You are lost here.
Hey! That is Raoul!
Actually, we are never sure if Cols is off his meds, or taking them all at once.
And without food…
sorry Raoul !!
No way, but I’d take McCollum in a heartbeat.
Your metrics yesterday for shooting has Kyrie and Damian about same. McCollum would be undersized SG, so not exactly ideal.
McCollum would be point and be awesome
Lilliard is older, but may have a longer contract. Lilliard may actually be worse defensively.
I don’t think he is worse defensively. He has proven to be more durable. Lillard lead portland team in west to playoffs while Kyrie couldn’t as best player for the team in east.
It’s panic at the blog with Cols leading the charge.
Yep. This is why you don’t panic over dumb stuff. You need to save up the panic for when the 2nd best and young and improving and the guy who hit the most important shot in Cleveland history asks for a trade.
Now you panic. And of course just when it’s time to panic, KING PANIC himself, Nate, is nowhere to be found.
Dude. I’m excited. Chance to remake the team and dump some bad contracts to get multiple roster upgrades.
This is the most Nate post ever.
And criticism is not panic, you dolt.
It makes me chuckle when you call Cols a dolt. Unfortunately, when a player “requests” a trade it hurts their value. You aren’t concerned about that?
Everyone calm down and have a beer.
Look at the good side. It was going to be hard to beat the Dubs under any circumstances. Now we have lots of distractions to make us forget how the Indians are stinking up the gym. And, less than a week until the Browns open camp!
Already started beering.
Agree with Cols on this one – being “excited” about Kyrie Irving leaving is definitely a Nate-ism – sorry Nate :)
I don’t honestly care. If he’s dumb enough/egotistical enough/greedy enough not to want to be here, I don’t want him.
Cavs got their ring, now it’s fun time.
Kyrie is really the Saint Weirdo!
Kyrie apparently wants to go to New York, Miami, Minnesota, or San Antonio. So Kyrie wants to play with Saint Weirdo again? So weird…
Probably wants to be traded for Dion…
Ironically, imagine the possibilities Griffin could pull out of a hat if he had this opportunity.
The guy who traded two firsts for Mozgov?
Bam! There it is. Don’t keep up with life, and life comes at you fast. Complete exposure of how poorly this organization is run.
Having said that, Cavs could actually use this moment to get way more athletic and better defensively. That is assuming no one else requests to be traded as well.
So.. Kyrie, Shump and Edy for Brogdon, Monroe and Delly?
Kyrie and Shump for Greek Freak and Delly.
Kyrie for Durant. Shump for the Greek Freak!
Arch for GM!
That would totally make my day.
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y7lsc8ro
I’m a lunatic
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/888493088141737984
Can’t imagine KI would be a Pop fave…I’m sure he’d be glad to have him, but he’d drive Pop nuts…
Kyrie is a souped up version of Tony Parker. Pop would love him.
But Pop would have to break him before he loved him, like he did with Parker. Don’t know if Kyrie realizes what he’d be in for there. Or does he imagine that’s what he wants?
He’s an airhead.
No way. Pop only likes players who have gotten over themselves.
Nate, now is the time for an everything is doomed post. Your time to shine!!!!
Sucks.
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y96nx6ns
First thought….. haha… Bucks ain’t givin up the alphabet…
Ugh. Irving requesting a trade really sucks. Now is the time to PANIC!!!!
Nope, let him walk. He will play hard against Curry if just for ego. LBJ could end up relinquishing more control next regular season. He will be another year older and need more rest. If Ky leads the team in scoring, I suspect that might be enough to satisfy his want to be the man.
If this stuff is true, he wanted to be traded after last season. Too bad that didn’t happen. His value would never have been higher. We might have been able to trade him for Durant.
I would hate to tell KI how things would go on a team where he is the top player. A lot more vacation time.
SO WITH ALL THE OFF SEASON DRAMA ( AND THEY SAY THE CAVS PLAY THEIR BEST WHEN THEY HAVE DRAMA AROUND THEM ) THEY SHOULD WIN THE CHAMPIONSHIP GOING AWAY NEXT YEAR …….” CHICKEN LITTLE….THE SKY IS FALLING “…….STAY TUNED TOMORROW GILBERT SELLING TEAM TO LEBRON
It is hard to know what KI really means. Like, what is the deal with the Flat Earth? My guess is that he was just toying with sports writers. They ask so many dumb questions it must be tempting to spoof them. Or, maybe KI is an idiot. Don’t know.
https://twitter.com/WindhorstESPN/status/888484430410428416
Can’t believe this Kyrie news. What happened to this team?!
Anyone up for trading Kyrie NOW?
Ugh this Kyrie news is disheartening
Is this already being treated as Fact?
Tweets are facts, didn’t you know that?
Does it not sound like it’s pretty likely true, though?
I guess I just don’t understand it is all.
It’s a fact.
I wonder if wanting to go somewhere else to be a “focal point” is actually foreshadowing that LeBron is going to leave? I have no idea why he would want to leave an automatic bid to the Finals and ask not to play with the greatest player in the league. I understand wanting to be the man, but wow.
Windhorst reporting that Irving has asked to be traded somewhere where he’ll ‘have a bigger role’. Always a circus.
I love Diaw’s game and personality. I wish there was a young big he could mentor on the team to make his regular season more valuable. Although listening to interviews with him I’m not sure he’s the mentor type.
Yeah. He’s old and fat and slow. Do not want. We have the best mentor ever in LeBron James. Our locker room is solid and was great the last two years.
Maybe I love him because I’m old and fat and slow.
Haha.
I don’t think LeBron is much of a mentor for younger players.
I’ll say this, if Derrick Rose wants to change the current perception of him, he’ll have to do it as a microwave scoring 6th man.
https://twitter.com/joevardon/status/888262235595751424
All things being equal I’d rather not root for an awful humans like Liggins or Rose, or dirty players like Delly and Andy V, but laundry is a powerful drug. If they are Cavs I’ll root for them.
You forgot you meds today.
To be fair, he could have taken too many as well.
Ben, you are an absolutely excellent basketball analyst. I would come to your writing before literally any of the national guys who are getting paid loads to do what you do out of love and passion for the game.
Really enjoyed the piece as always, Ben.
Ricky Rubio is a more efficient scorer than Derrick Rose https://t.co/pJKAPMDJ0t
These are percentiles
Is Ricky available to us? I thought not. FG% is good. That is what I care about.
Why? 3>2
I think the TS% stat is overrated. Look, if the player just stands and takes all his shots from 3, his TS% will be higher than a guy who drives more or takes more 2s. He is also much easier to guard. Furthermore, long shots give long rebounds. Missed 3s usually mean more transition for the other team. Drives result in FTs (the most efficient shot) or makes more often, and you get to set up your D. Not to mention forcing rotations with the drive leading to offensive boards & WIDE OPEN triples. There is a lot of hidden… Read more »
Look folks, the reality is we have to swing for the fences. If things stay status quo, the Dubs are heavy favorites. It is a 1 year vet min deal FFS. I get hating the player or the person here. I do. But let us not go into revisionist history on James’ teammates. If there is another vet min guy averaging 18 ppg on 47% I’m all ears.
Tyler Ennis has upside.
He also sucks.
Give me a metric that proves that.
He’s the guy the Lakers are trying to replace with Rose.
So? Magic is not a genius.
Taking on Rose is a gamble in any circumstances. Now that we are reminded what a dirt ball he is, I vote no.
BTW, recall that LeBron once said he would never play with someone like Stephon Marberry. What was it about Marberry that he didn’t like? I didn’t much like him, although I do give him credit for having a long late career starring role in China.
Anyway, LeBron is pretty much Mr. Clean, and there have never been any dirtballs on his team, and I doubt if he wants to start now.
Liggins with a domestic abuse conviction. JRs issue with killing his friend while driving. Chris Andersen with a checkered past.
None of these three are remotely in a dirtball category with Rose.
What about Delonte West?
Difference is he was under contract already when he started having his issues. They eventually cut ties.
Fair enough.
Also, and I’m not making any excuses here, but Delonte has been proven to have mental issues. Not right either way but does he have a mental disorder.
I believe he was diagnosed bipolar so I’m sure that plays a role
Jason is correct.
That is all true. I also think the fact that LBJ has been a model citizen who actively helps his community and takes strong stances for issues he believes in is something that does not get enough appreciation. As far as we know the guy is truly a great guy off the court and there has literally been nothing to give any doubt as to that fact. The guy has been hyped since he was a 14 year old kid and somehow, one could argue miraculously, has kept his head on his shoulders. That is pretty incredible. How many people,… Read more »
If he ends up being a cancer, we could likely trade him. Or waive him. Calderon is insurance on him.
This about sums it up. https://twitter.com/IllegalScreens/status/888222688493289472
HaHaHa!
Deron Williams is better than Derrick Rose.
With you and Ben here. People seem excited about the idea of Rose, apparently because he’s a ‘name’. He sucks, and he doesn’t realize he sucks. He should be starring in China next season. He’s better than Calderon, that’s about it. At least Calderon doesn’t think he’s an MVP candidate.
In the end, I’d bet he signs elsewhere. He’s just feasting on being linked to the Cavs right now.
Honestly, Calderon is probably the better fit.
In a vacuum, I’d agree. I think Calderon is probably just done, though. Having your worst year by a mile at age 35 usually says it all.
Not terribly excited about Rose. However, he does have something left. He can score at the rim effectively. He plays well vs the Dubs. 47% from the field. It is not that he is a name. It COULD work. Plus, given our limited assets, it has the most upside. More than, say, Mack or Chalmers.
Deron Williams is better under no pressure. He chokes under pressure. Rose is a better pressure player. Neither is a world beater.
Well, not okay with Rose. Didn’t know about the ugliness featured below. Civil trials are no different than criminal when it comes to these situations. I don’t forgive public figures, politicians, sports figures, or anyone that has money to hire enough of the best criminal lawyers to deter prosecutors out of criminal trials. It doesn’t matter to me if they settled out of court and because they can do something for a team I follow in a meaningless activity. Settling out of court is often due to the difficulty of going up against top end criminal defense lawyers. It doesn’t… Read more »
Pretty much agree with JOHN B
Well said.
It’s an ugly case, and I actually followed it quite closely. After reading everything I would’ve pronounced him not guilty as well but it was also quite apparent that he hangs around with a crowd of creeps that I wouldn’t want around my team. He also had the classlessness to be taking pictures with jurors after the trial.
Minus the rapey bits, Im ok with Drose
Yep.
Liggins had a domestic assault & JR killed someone in a car accident where he was at fault. Kinda selective in our morals, yes?
You’re very plural…
https://twitter.com/oldseaminer/status/888158656407244803
https://twitter.com/oldseaminer/status/888159413244227584
Oh, yeah. Forgot the details. Thanks for the reminder.
Yeah. It seems worse than Liggins assault charges.
http://nba.nbcsports.com/2013/09/07/ugly-details-emerge-in-domestic-violence-case-involving-former-thunder-player-deandre-liggins/
The guy went to jail and did his time.
Whatever gets you through the night man.
Giant difference between a guy who’s admitted his wrongdoings and is trying to turn his life around and an entitled creep.
I’m with Ben. Rose is a cancer.
Don’t forget that Rose totally disappeared on his team where no one knew who he was last year
LeBron doesn’t tolerate crap like that. If Rose comes here (unlikely I know) LeBron will make sure he’s in line.
Apparently the Bulls want him back too…
https://twitter.com/sam_amick/status/888111720102739970
It all depends what Rose wants. If he wants to play in the Finals he comes here. If he wants the sunshine and glamour he goes to LA. If he wants to be close to home he goes to Chicago.
Now that the Bulls traded Jimmy Butler he can take his team back /s
” OLD GUYS NEED DAYS OFF “—-BEEN TRYING TO CONVINCE THE MRS NOMAD OF THAT FOR YEARS WITH LITTLE TO NO LUCK !!!—–GREAT POINTS ON SHOOTING ( AS I AM A HIGH SCHOOL COACH AND SO CALLED SHOOTING GURU “—–SUMMER BALL IS WHAT IT IS ( ALL WE NEED TO DO IS REVIEW ORANGE MAMABA’S STATS FROM LAST SUMMER )—ONE THING BALL HAS GOING FOR HIM IS PLAYING IN L.A. / LAKERS THE MEDIA ITSELF WILL PROMOTE HIM AS A SUPERSTAR / GIVE HIM MORE CREDIT FOR HIS TALENTS THAN HE REALLY DESERVES / OF COURSE OPPOSING PLAYERS WILL BE… Read more »
I like Rose at the minimum coming off the bench with LeBron screaming in his ear, “KNOW YOUR ROLE! GET TO THE HOOP”
Per Hoops Rumors: The Lakers have been in the market this summer for a veteran point guard to serve as a mentor for rookie – and Summer League MVP – Lonzo Ball. The club used its remaining cap room to sign Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, but still has the $4.328MM room exception available to offer free agents.
Could you get any worse than DRose as your mentor?
Michael-Carter Williams?
Cavs dodged a bullet!
https://twitter.com/RTNBA/status/888105503598854152
Mike Miller is still out there though.
Nice bonus rant but Dan Gilbert won the real league in 2016 :)
Interesting take on Diaw. I’m not as low on Derrick Rose as you are Ben, but I’m certainly not as high as Cols. I’d rather just sign Tony Allen then have either of those two.