Live Thread: Pelicans @ Cavs
2024-11-20Good evening CtB!
The Cleveland Clinic Cavs welcome the New Orleans Pelicans’ G League Affiliate Birmingham Squadron to the windy shores of Lake Erie in hopes of bouncing back from their first loss of the season to the reigning champion Boston Celtics in Boston last night. It’s an opportunity to quickly erase the bad taste in their mouth, or a risk of dropping a quick two games in the loss column. This game will require a lot of mental toughness to overcome exhaustion, injury, and emotional toll of their recent historic feat.
Looking over the numbers, the Cavs defense and rebounding are really the only two improvements spots for the Cavs as we stand at game 17. In this must win game, the Cavs will have the opportunity to go against quite possibly the worst team in the NBA statistically. As long as the Cavs can keep them off the offensive glass, they should come out with a W. A loss however, would raise immediate eyebrows given how bad the Pels are. Let’s see what the hospital Cavs can do…
Tip off is scheduled for 7:30PM Eastern time and will be broadcasted live on Fanduel Sports Network, Go Cavs!
Extended Jarrett Allen interview.
https://youtu.be/HKrSswkIdxI
Said this below, but I think highest they can go for Jerome is 3/34 with player option for the third year or 4/47 as an early bird. Also one year deal with a one year opt out so they can give him a raise might also be a good plan.
I think I’m wrong. Think this is a Hartenstein Knicks situation.
I know Early Bird deals have to be 2-4 years. I have no earthly idea if the 2nd can be an option year.
Me neither
FWIW, although I am mot certain, it looks as if “average” NBA salary is likely the mean, not the median. So, it was $10.3 a couple years ago, so say it we can offer around $12 mil. Assume a max increase next year to $154 mil. Apron $195.9. 2nd apron $207.8. Core 4: $144.5 Strus, Ice, Niang, Wade, Tyson, CPJ: $47.4 ———10 for $191.9 mil———- + Jerome at $12 mil = $203.9 Throw in Caris & Merrill and we are EASILY into the 2nd apron. If we can keep Ty for $12 and Dan is willing to go 2nd apron,… Read more »
Caris seems like the easy one here to let go if they can keep Jerome. Also Merrill is nice but if that contract gets over 5 mil per, he’s not a keeper. Emoni should eventually fill that shooter role.
I don’t recall Dan ever being cheap, especially when a title is in sight.
Me, neither. It will depend on how it plays out this year. How the team & individuals perform. Assuming no crap the bed moment for us (team or player), I really don’t get the either/or idea here with, say Caris or Jerome.
CBA wise, letting Caris walk does not increase what we can offer Jerome. Nor does letting Jerome go change what we can offer Caris. Ditto Merrill.
The questions are: is Gilbert willing to pay the tax? And is this group as is a contender?
The Core 4 are all thriving (aside from DG vs Boston). As are all the rotation guys. Jerome & Caris have been off the charts. Niang has been much improved. And Okoro & Wade are defense first guys, but have been playing well for the most part. And Merrill’s gravity helps us. Heck even CPJ & Tyson have looked good. Strus would make 13 keepers in my book.
We don’t have a FRP next year. One spot needs yo be a backup big (TT/Thor/etc) and #15 would be a big wing (vet min FA, Travers, Bates).
I do not think we need to make a splashy trade to contend, nor do we need a signing via an exception to fill out the depth (TPMLE, bi-annual). So, aside from the tax ramifications, being over the 2nd apron really should not impact the roster build. It is already built.
Developing and maximizing the guys we have is the key. Plus, sometimes a legit contender can score a good player on a vet min. Tyus Jones in Phoenix, for example.
Seems like Thor is a key to this, because if KA is able to find him enough opportunies to establish himself as a solid 3rd big and he reaches that upside, there will be no other major “piece” to look for. Jaylen developing quickly could also at least mitigate somewhat the front court need given his size and rebounding.
the clueless KJG gang is still trying to give away JA.
Well, just to be clear headed about our options. Remember, the cap can only increase at a max of 10% per year. That would look something like this with a MAX increase (new TV deals).
Year, Cap, Tax, 1st Apron, 2nd Apron.
23/24: $136.0, $165.3, $172.3, $182.8
24/25: $140.6, $170.8, $178.1, $189.0
25/26: $154.6, $186.8, $195.9, $207.8
Using spotrsc for cap & aprons & guessing on tax.
Our salary structure next year looks like this:
Core 4 = $144.5 (DM $46.4, DG $39.5, Mobely $38.7, JA $20).
Roughly $40 mil under the tax, and $50 mil under the 1st apron, $60 mil under the 2nd.
Other signed players (6) = $47.4: Strus $15.9, Okoro $11.0, Niang $8.2, Wade $6.6, Tyson $3.5, CPJ 2.2.
With 10 guys, we are at $191.97. Just below the first apron.
But we have 4-5 roster spots to fill. FA’s are LeVert (Bird rights), Merrill (Bird), Jerome (partial Bird), and TT (partial Bird).
Exceptions & their values for next year:
MLE: $13.4 mil (we won’t have it)
Taxpayer MLE: $5.4 mil (n/a for 2nd apron)
Room exception: $8.4 mil (n/a for Cavs)
Bi-annual: $4.9 (n/a if over 1st apron)
Partial Bird (Jerome): $4.481 (175% of previous/104.5% of average). IDK on average NBA salary, 23/24 mean $10.2, median $5.3).
So, our best case for Jerome is that the NBA uses mean, not median, to determine average player salary. Which has likely increased a bit in the last two years, likely north of $11 mil. So $104.5% of that. $12 mil max.
If they use median, then the best we could do is around $6 mil, which is still more than the taxpayer MLE (caps team at 2nd apron) or bi-annual (caps team at first apron). And better because it does not trigger a hard cap.
The reality is with the Core 4 locked up, we are gonna be a tax team unless we gut the bench. As such, we cannot really sign a big time FA or even use the standard mid level exception. Signing an outside FA to a Strus/LeVert or even Okoro/Niang level deal will be beyond us without a major reshuffle.
Being over the 1st apron limits trades, but we can still aggregate. Can’t at over 2nd. But I doubt a big deal is coming. Just because we are playing so well and why sacrifice depth for a 5th starter?
Even if we deal Niang for nothing (would have to attach picks we don’t have) and/or let Caris walk it doesn’tcreally change the menu on what we can offer Jerome (still a tax team), so why do it?
Stay the course. See what we look like with Strus back. And hope the NBA uses mean to determine average NBA salary. That way we should be able to pony up $11 mil or so for Jerome while retaining Caris & Merrill if Dan wants to pay it. Otherwise, $4.5-$6 mil max.
Also, big picture, the Core 4 are (relatively) flat after next year (Mobley’s jump). If the cap keeps going up, we should get more room under the aprons, or at least stay even.
right
the Cavs are the team to beat as is.
any trade for an older, more expensive, all star is a BAD idea. the Cavs got to be a top team by avoiding dumb trades.
my guess is they use mean — that is the usual, nontech, meaning for “average”
math looks off
IF WE KNOW WE CANT POSSIBLY RESIGN “ GEM” DO WE PURSUE A TRADE—-/- AT LEAST GET SOME VALUE BACK
Honestly I think we go all in this year. Don’t worry about next year. The east sucks, Boston isn’t the juggernaut other champions have been, and the freaking Lakers could come out of the west for all we know. How sick would it be to win a title against LeBron?
Strus will be EPIC in this offense. Starting or bench…he was made for it. Let’s worry about what’s in front of us.
exactly!!
no doubt! well said! lets go Cavs!
No. You’re not getting any value back. Offer him what you can now, and if he walks, he walks
THE “ CORE 4 “ NEED TO “DIP INTO THEIR WALLETS “ AND MAKE A STEALTH DONATION TO “ GEM “ UNTIL KOBY CAN RESTRUCTURE HIS CONTRACT
that would be nice, maybe not possible or likely.
TOJ — I WAS THINKING THE SAME-// CALL IT LOYALTY- APPRECIATION
I don’t know how players think, but we paid Jerome an entire year for him to not play a minute of time, and then gave him minutes immediately upon return, I’d like to think that loyalty would be reciprocal in some way?
you have to pay injuried players, so that is not loyalty. giving him immediate minutes was just a smart coaching decision.
if Ty chooses to stay, it is much more likely to be for the winning situation, and great guys. a lot of the other contending teams have stars in the “difficult” to “asshole” range, as Ty would know having played with Braymond.
Next up:
Sun: Raptors
Wed: Hawks
Fri: at Hawks (cup game)
Sun: Celtics !!
lots of days off in this stretch — l’m looking for a five + game winning streak !
The whole not going to be able to afford to retain Ty Jerome conversation is bumming me out. It’s like having a girlfriend/boyfriend you know is too hot for you…
CBA 2nd apron reeking havoc on contending teams.
It’s not even that. It’s that he’s an early bird.
If Jaylon can actually maintain some semblance of last night’s game, he has a chance to leapfrog Merrill/Okoro/Niang for the end of the bench. Infinitely better rebounder, better passer too… just has to cut down turnovers. Hopefully that opens a doorway to keeping Caris and Ty Jerome.
maybe wonder if you consider moving Strus to re-arrange salary cap use… hard to swallow that, it’ll be very interesting what Koby does next.
Yep agreed. No easy choices, will be very interesting indeed.
Ty certainly looks better than Strus, so there is that
Haven’t seen Strus in Kenny’s system for what it’s worth.
good point.
There is no structural barrier on LeVert. We have full Bird rights on him. We can pay him whatever if Dan is willing.
Jerome is gonna be an issue. Partial Bird rights limit what we can offer since we are over the cap.
I AGREE/ LIKE DAVID s POST PERTAINING ON SIGNING “ GEM “ —— DO WE HAVE CONTROL OF HIS CONTRACT THROUGH NEXT YEAR??
No. The FA’s mext year are: LeVert, Jerome, Merrill, and TT.
Of the rostered guys
Hey! Dan has formally applied to get a WNBA team for Cleveland!
Saw that too. That would be great if it happens.
Made international news over here too!
SO JASON ARE WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS THERE IS “ NO CHANCE IN HELL” OF RESIGNING “ GEM “ —— DAMN WE LOSE RUBIO —HARD ROCK AND NOW POSSIBLY “GEM” —— I NEED………. “ MORE BEER 🍺 PLEASE “
hope they figure out a way
He will have suitors. I could see the Spurs making a push. Or the Clippers.
absolutely! the advantage the Cavs have is a chance to win it all the next few years. the Spurs are obviously on the way up, but the Clips are heading to the bottom.
There is a chance. But he will have to agree to sign here for less, at least for a year until we have full Bird rights after 3 years.
Now, we could certainly agree to make it up on the back end. But he’d be risking injury or a bad year decreasing his value.
Partial Bird max for Jerome, Greater of:
175% of previous year’s salary ($2.56 mil)
105% of NBA average salary
Contract has to be at least 2 years to prevent teams from signing a 1 year just to get full Bird (I did not know that).
Full Bird we could offer 25% to 30% of cap..
would be great to have DM, DG, and TJ for guards. that would confound all the self-appointed “experts” that said you couldn’t play both DM and DG at once. playing all three would make their heads explode.
Recognize he is an NYC guy who got as far south as UVA for school, does “Beau Ty” work as a moniker for one of our 6th man assassins?
Beauty! That works in about three ways.
Wore a bow tie to a work event today and the wordplay crossed my mind during his first half barrage this evening.
Nate/EG may have to go all meme for the new guys.
Ty is Chevy Chase/Caddyshack. Wannna nanna.
Tyson couod be Iron Mike, but I’d get passing on thet one.
Thor had a good game. You could go Marvel or Adventures in Babysitting on that one.
And Travers. Luke. Cool Hand Luke or Star Wars.
WHO WOULD YOU CHOOSE TO TRADE TO FREE UP MONEY TO KEEP “ GEM “
The issue isn’t so much cap space as not having full Bird rights. If we had full Bird (like we do with LeVert) we could pay him whatever as long as Gilbert is willing to eat the tax hit.
Mitchell, Garland, Allen, & Mobley are locked up for a while, and the 4 of them get us close to the cap ($154 mil cap next year, $147 mil (or so) with those 4. There is no universe where we can use cap space to sign Jerome (partial Bird is more than $8 mil).
Outside the Core 4, we have 6 other guys signed gor next year: Strus at $16, Okoro at $11, Wade at $6.6, and Niang at $8.2. All pretty reasonable and all are comtributing. Tyson is on his rookie at $3.3 and CPJ is peanuts. We have full Bird on LeVert and Merrill. We can pay if Dan is willing. I would not tear the team up to keep Jerome. I’d try so sell him on the idea of playing one more year here at a discount (our best possible offer) and then say we’ll pay out when we have full… Read more »
hopefully DM can remind him how much it sucks to be on a bad team compared to having a chance to win it all
Early bird contracts have to be for two years I think. But 2yrs with a player option on a third at 11,12,13 doesn’t seem crazy in either direction for Jerome- if he wants to play on a hood team do we think he’s getting more than the full mle? And would set him up for another contract when he’s 29…
AND WE STILL HAVENT SEEN EMONI PERFORM IN THIS OFFENSE—COACHING STAFF
TYSON WAS FLIRTING WITH A TRIPLE/ DOUBLE—— WE ARE SO FREAKING DEEP IT s ALMOST A CRIME 👍🏀💪
I WILL HELP DONATE TO RESIGN “ GEM “ JEROME-/— DONT MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE WE MADE WITH HARD ROCK
HAD A SCRIMMAGE TONIGHT— WE DOMINATED—- CHECKING THE BOX SCORE ——-“ MORE THOR PLEASE “ —— TYSON —- THEY ARE GOING TO CONTRIBUTE OFF THE BENCH BY SEASON s END—- WILL ENJOY WATCHING REPLAY 👍🏀
might have used Thor last night
Wow, assistant coaches pushed for Jalen to start. Kenny initially said no, but relented.
Man the Pels are decimated, but Cavs took care of business.
Does anyone else think the guy from the Classic Chevrolet commercials sounds just like Norm McDonald?
Lol
Oh, JT
Thor auditioning for tt’s spot.
Thor jump shot looks smooth
Great play Thor
Cavs front office batting 1.000 since summer of 23.
good eye!
Cavs running some old Bulls triangle offense.
The mighty thor from deep
Blink twice…
Hey, Thor!
ugh
This stretch should have yakkity saks playing.
Travers “Vegamite Jamwich”!
Nice.
Tyson is fantastic. We just keep finding guys
I had to request Ty Jerome 6th man of the year odds on fan duel and they opened at 30 to 1 and by halftime he had jumped over Caris and dropped to 17 to 1 lol to keep from crying. I got 22 to 1 max wager of 228$ for a cool 5k. Let’s go Gem
Most impressed with Jaylen.
This took some work, but after that pick six.
Tyson has been super solid. Ty a revelation. And TT not so much…
LMFAO
https://bsky.app/profile/willymayzzz.bsky.social/post/3lbgcxj5vp227
JB at home watching Ty Jerome like, you f*ckn kidding me???
JB did get a bad deal last year.
Gotta figure out how to re-sign Ty Jerome. The Cavs should consider a max extension. I think highest they can go is 3/34 with player option for the third year or 4/47 as an early bird. Both should be in the table at halftime.
We are gonna lose a few really fun guys this off season :(
You’re a ray of sunshine.
Lmaooooo my brother you’d have swapped Ty for Delon Wright in a heartbeat stay on your side
I would have last year. This is not last year.
Only difference is health. You’d have given away a great piece for a shitty gap filler.
You had no vision, no foresight, and have been a perpetual prisoner of the moment. Just wack analysis.
Maybe we don’t lose a guy this off-season – but pointing out a high class problem doesn’t mean I’m not optimistic.
You can take a break for a couple days.
might need more naps!
I don’t think we can afford Ty damn
Ty Jerome taking multiple heat checks and hitting the first of them from 28 feet was not on my bingo card
Dear lord Ty Jerome
Getting destroyed on offensive boards. TT omg
Cavs should be offering a three year extension.
This was supposed to be in response to Simmo
I hope!
I’m somewhat speechless about Ty Jerome. Incredible.
See above
Ty Jerome continues playing like an all star
God. TT looks so old.
Mitchell playing this defense after having to take on the best defensive backcourt of all time last night, isn’t fair for the Pels. They look very mortal after watching a duel of demigods last night.
Tyson doing a lot of great stuff here. CPJ decent
Love javonte green.
The Cavs’ ability to get to get good minutes from this deep in their roster is impressive.
CPJ >>>>>>>>>>>>>
JAYLEN TYSON IS SO SPECIAL
The Cavaliers contain multitudes
Playing rough and rowdy ways!
Eventually NO will hit 3s
Solid open. Like what I saw from TY and the rotation so far.
MOBL3Y
PERFECT PICK AND ROLL CPJ ……
Allen telling it to them in thunder.
Love Kenny playing the young guys early with Ty.
POSTED BEFORE—— REALLY BELIEVE EMONI WILL THRIVE IN THIS OFFENSE/ KA —COACHING STAFF
Cavs are looking good for a long stretch!
Tyson with a really great shift
TYSON AGENDA TO THE MOON!!!
Nice to finally play a game where the opponent isn’t shooting something like 17/22 from three near the end of the first period.
I like Tyson starting.
Would be wild if Emoni is good in this offense. It seems to play to his strengths
Injury list is brutal for both teams.
😲
Tyson Agenda lets fucking go!!!!! https://twitter.com/ChrisFedor/status/1859385615990526140