The Point-Fourward: Old Guys Need Days Off
2017-07-20
Four points I’m thinking about the NBA and a bonus Rose…
1. Considering all the hoopla surrounding Lonzo Ball‘s footwear, it was fitting that he collected his Summer League MVP in street clothes. One might be confused into thinking that the thin young man is a Zoolander protégé. Though, considering his ability to pass with either hand, I suppose he is more of a Hansel.
On the court, count me as one of many who is more than a little concerned with Ball’s funky shot mechanics. It has been well documented that Ball’s shooting percentages suffer when he drives to his right. That cross-faced release is very difficult to get off with the defender automatically on his release side. He is much more accurate with his step-back jumper going left.
It is true that most right-handed players are more comfortable using the right foot as their step-back foot. It keeps the right shoulder in line with the target, thus mitigating a lot of left/right body lean problems. LeBron is a prime example. His natural fall to the left becomes a straight fall away when he shoots from the left wing. A fall away is always better than a lean.
That is why so many people are skeptical of Ball’s unorthodox stroke. It isn’t such a problem that his shot is nontraditional. The problem is that his kinetic chain is too easily disturbed. He may drill some beautifully high arching bombs, but when he misses, he misses horribly.
It’s not difficult to make him miss. Any good defender can pick up on release point consistencies, but it’s often more important to check landing points.
Most great shooters go straight up and down on their jumpshot. Still, many other fantastic shooters get that slight hip momentum going forward causing them to land a bit closer to the target. There are a slew of streaky shooters who rely too heavily on that hip momentum. Think Chandler Parsons pre-injury.
What great shooters all have in common is that they don’t move laterally. The Sports Science video doesn’t talk about his right to left body fade. The weight transfer isn’t quite as important as the release point, but it is still hugely relevant. Lonzo Ball jumps forward and left on every shot. His landing point is predictable for the defender and since his release isn’t super quick and is in front of him, he is particularly easy to defend. NBA players will closeout hard to the left side of his body and trust that his funky kinetic chain will do the work for them if Ball evades them to the right.
2. Sometimes one’s greatest talent hinders skill acquisition. Lonzo Ball has the softest passing touch on the rock that I have seen from a rookie in years. His otherworldly ability to flick the ball with appropriate velocity over great distances must have made it almost unnecessary for him to construct a normal shot. When the ball rockets effortlessly from one’s fingertips, hip-angle discussions must seem a bit superfluous.
Since Ball has yet to show any defensive ability or high-level Pick and Roll play in the half-court, I have a hard time anointing him as anything other than an exciting rookie with things to learn.
He is nowhere near the athlete or defender that Jason Kidd was early in his career. Honestly, he reminds me more of a tall Brandon Jennings than the Bucks’ head coach. I do expect Ball to be substantially more effective than Jennings, but he has a long way to go before he can be a crunchtime player on a Finals team.
3. As the Cavaliers look around the scrapheap for guys that could make an impact come Finals time, it is important to remember that some of those very same players will not be assets during the regular season. For all the very nice macro data we have for regular season play, much of it is rendered completely useless once the real season rolls around.
We have seen first hand how differently Kyrie Irving plays defensive in December versus June. While it is true that effective regular seasons by role players would help to keep LeBron James fresh for the silly season, it is more important for the Cavaliers to surround the King with guys that he can trust in big moments.
For as much as I have detested Jeff Green‘s game over the years, he did show up against LeBron’s Heat teams on more than one occasion. If there is any chance for the veteran to turn his career around, it would be with James in his ear. If nothing else, the Cavs have not seen a lot of lazy playoff play from role players during the LeBron 2.0 era. An engaged Green might make me not want to calmly close my computer. Again, I am NOT discussing the regular season.
With that in mind, Jose Calderon also has had the confidence to deliver in big situations throughout his NBA and International career. I don’t expect the Spaniard to be particularly useful for the 82 game slate, but he is the type of player LeBron can trust to nail a big three. And he does still get fiery at times.
4. Since youth doesn’t seem to particular interest the Cavs’ brass (whoever that may be at this point), it might be wise to look at another old man with supreme basketball IQ.
Boris Diaw has been a favorite player of mine for over a decade. His unique combination of skill and intelligence often hides his still incredibly quick feet. Utah recently waived the French point-forward after signing Thabo Sefolosha. He too might not be the most locked in regular season player, but Diaw has been consistently effective in the playoffs, often playing crunch-time minutes against the other teams’ wing superstar.
Diaw was crucial to the Spurs’ success in their destruction of LeBron’s last Heat squad. If LeBron likes Green because of his play as an opposing player, he should love Diaw. Boris may have lost another half step to age and wine, but he was still able to shut down Kevin Durant as recently as this spring.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwnbA1IyHhY
Green has never shown himself to be a particularly high IQ player, but Calderon and Diaw are both basketball geniuses with wine ice water in their veins. The Cavs haven’t always played the most intelligent basketball and they have had the tendency to get too uptight in the regular season. It’s possible that free spirits like Calderon and Diaw and a spirit free guy like Green could end up moving the needle by moving the rock. If nothing else, LeBron could get wine recs from his one time nemesis, Boris.
BONUS RANT:
For the second straight week, I have been putting the finishing touches on an article as Cavaliers news has broken. Last week, I was pleased to find that Cedi was to officially join the Cavs.
This week, I am in a mild state of shock, awe, and utter annoyance at the report that Derrick Rose may be coming to Cleveland. I am not going to pull any punches. Signing Derrick Rose would be a mistake. He is a high usage, low efficiency player on offense and a total disaster on the defensive end. Even before injuries sapped his explosion, Rose was a minus defender that struggled to grasp team defensive principles. Post-injuries, his diminished lateral quickness has made it all but impossible for him to guard opposing point guards.
But, he is DERRICK ROSE?! Yes, and that is a huge problem. It is helpful that he no longer has to live up to a large contract, but he has still yet to grasp his current place as an NBA role player. He provides limited play-making, zero floor-spacing and low IQ shots from the mid-range. Jeff Green doesn’t care enough to hi-jack an offense. Jose Calderon is too smart to do so. Derrick Rose will think he is the final part of a SuperTeam. Iman Shumpert‘s offensive forays in transition will seem pragmatic in comparison.
Rose can provide the occasional highlight leading less casual fans to conclude for the 14th time that “He’s baaack!” He’s not. And truth be told, he was never really that great to begin with.
Until now, I was quietly optimistic that the Cavs’ quiet off-season was a sign of patience and competency. If this signing goes through, the off-season looks more like it has been run by a dude who won his Fantasy League in 2011.
Cleveland really needs to line up a GM now and make sure we get a stud for Kyrie. This is not the time to screw this up.
Man, why can’t Anthony Davis demand a trade to the Cavs?
I thought Altman was given the spot…
Davis could, but I highly doubt Orleans does that. He just signed a super long deal and Davis is arguably a top 8 player. I would love if he did though.
Altman is essentially the GM. Hiring “imminent”.
Although not on the same level as PG13’s trade issues, Kyrie’s “list” presents a problem because teams not on it may not be willing to give up top talent for two seasons of play from him.
He’s under contract for two seasons with the third being a player option. If you are a GM, and you’re not on his list, do you believe he’ll stick around past the second year?
Apologies if this is a redundant comment (haven’t been able to track all of the threads below), but why aren’t more people concerned Kyrie is leaving because he knows LBJ is leaving (or, at least, that LBJ is seriously considering leaving)? Wouldn’t that make sense? I love LBJ, but part of the problem with his repeated free agencies, and very private decision-making process, is he leaves his current team and teammates in the lurch. In Miami and in Cleveland no one knew what he was going to do until it was too late for other players to respond. Couldn’t this… Read more »
I don’t get your take. It seems to me that James leaving would fit into what Kyrie wants. Thus, if Ky thought James was leaving, there wouldn’t be a need for a trade. He’d be the man starting next year. He wants to be the man. Smacks of Chris Webber wanting out of GSW with Run TMC & going to Washington.
Unless he thinks the cavs will be bad without LBJ. He may be pushing a trade to teams that will be contenders and Miami because it is Miami and NBA players love glitz, glam, and beach.
He has zero say where he goes. The little flat earth knitwit doesn’t say a word while Paul, Butler, & George are on the market & then he gives us a list (he ain’t the man for SAS)? Please. As Wooden used to say, there is no cure for stupid.
I didn’t say he did. Make no mistake, he has influence though. Those four teams now know he is willing to be there long term. Every other team in the league must assume there is a chance he leaves when his contract is up to go to one of those teams. It influences what teams might be willing to deal for him.
@Jason — That is a fair point. I think part of my take is that Kyrie actually wants to be on a good team. The challenge with Cleveland is that the uncertainty around LBJ creates a huge risk that Kyrie could be left holding the bag on a bad team in a small market. It’s possible hid decision to request a trade is a proactive way to avoid that.
Again, this is just pure speculation.
Problem is that other than the Spurs (I guess Minnesota to a certain extent), the list he brought forth is full of horrible teams. So why go there and be shit when you can stay here and max your income for a city that loves you, even if LeBron leaves? Also, if LeBron does leave, he’ll be even more loved here and will again be the face of the franchise.
The Offseason of “Huh”?
Remember his list means nothing since he doesnt have a no trade we can trade to any of the 29 teams.
The only thing it. Might help is getting him to waive his 15% trade kicker.
His team list really is fascinating. Miami currently have Dion waiters signed with them who hates Kyrie. The knicks are a train wreck as usual and the odds of popovich peacefully co-existing with a low iq, ball hogging, defense lacking pg are so low it might as well be 0.
I love watching Kyrie and his scoring abilities are the best in the league in my opinion but he has some odd priorities it seems…
The dude believes the earth is flat. Enough said.
Hey! Now we know Cols’ last name!
Bwhahhaha! Nice
Does Miami own their 1st round pick this year cause if so a Kyrie, tt trade for dragic, Whiteside and their unprotected first would at least net us a top 3 pick next year. Kyrie and Dion reunited.
I have mixed emotions about Kyrie wanting a trade. I love what he did for the Cavs in 2016, and loved watching his highlight reels, and ultimately hoped he would improve enough, that when LeBron left and/or retired, he could run the team. That being said, he’s never proven that he can make players around him better, or lead a team into the playoffs, or hold a fricken lead when LeBron steps off the court. Maybe that’s something he feels he needs to prove. But the grass isn’t always greener. He could go back to the days of winning 20-30… Read more »
If many of the fans are chastising Kyrie and entertaining the idea of getting him gone despite basically handing us the single-most important thing in our sports history, then why don’t i see enough free-the-cavs-from-dan-gilbert chants anywhere?
Everything was great before. Kyrie and Lebron had proven to co-exist to the highest level. Someone can get us good players and give us room to move. Lebron we’re active in recruiting guys who the GM thinks could help.
Everything was great, until Dan Gilbert decided to save up some $ and be more involved.
He’s is paying $210 mil in salary and taxes. How is he saving $?
Kyrie handed us what??? Before LeBron came back, Kyrie led us to the #1 pick every year. Get a grip.
I don’t think the Suns are moving Booker, since Irving didn’t include them on his silly list.
I don’t want booker anyway. Way way overrated. Volume inefficient scorer who doesn’t play d and will never score with any efficiency. Not super athletic either. Who cares about 70 points in a garbage time game at the end of regular season against Boston scrubs when they were resting their good players for the playoffs?
Cavs should focus on Devin Booker. That would be incredible. Get Bledsoe too, and somehow just cut Shump, man- we are in business.
Anyone with insider know what trades Kevin pelton proposed for Kyrie?
He thinks the best option is for Bledsoe, but he also says that he doesn’t believe it helps the Cavs beat GS.
Don’t think the Suns are dealing Booker for KI or anyone else…
James Jones, please help us get Booker
Booker shot 42 percent from the field last year and more importantly had an awful true shooting percentage of 52%. He had a PER of 14.6. 14.6 is not good, below average. He was the 46th ranked SHOOTING GUARD in RPM at -1.30 with a -2.58 DRPM and a mediocre 1.28 ORPM. He was behind the likes of Iman Shumpert, JR Smith, and Jermey lamb. The guy is not good. He doesn’t even pass the eye test if you watched any of his games. I don’t count the 70 put game because it was against the end of Boston’s bench… Read more »
Bah humbug.
HaHaHa: At least the Knicks are in more disarray than the Cavs: http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20126648/scott-perry-new-york-knicks-yet-meet-james-dolan
Maybe if we call around 5:00 a.m., a janitor will answer the phone and trade Porzingis to us for Shump.
Not really that excited about Bledsoe, and Melo in a trade. Thought the Cavs had a chance to get Melo after a buyout, so we’d basically be just downgraded Irving for Bledsoe, who is a better defender, but not nearly the offensive threat.
https://twitter.com/AmicoHoops/status/888568987839320065
It does sound like Irving was telling Butler to not come to Cleveland. Huh? Does Kyrie really think he can carry a franchise?
He was doing so well at it before LeBron came. That is how we got the Gum Drop Bear and Wiggins!
Yeah, think that is the kind of franchise where KI is ‘the man!’. Simmons’ classic ‘good player, bad team’. He has never elevated other players enough to carry anyone.
Then the Knicks won’t be getting Kyrie in a trade from the Cavs
https://twitter.com/basketballtalk/status/888549468609687557
Too bad we didn’t jump when Mr. Triangle was still in charge!
I feel for you guys who are really invested in Kyrie. It sucks to see your favorite guy go. I felt that way about Andy and Delly and LeBron the first time… That being said I can’t get rid of Irving fast enough. Bad knees last year, indifferent player, mediocre defender at his best, horrible at his worst. Weird-ass crackpot who can’t run a pick. And roll without crossing up his man half the time. Yeah he hit the greatest shot in Cleveland basketball history, but if he doesn’t want to be a part of a team then it clearly… Read more »
I think we know now who is the anonymous Cavs who discouraged Jimmy Butler from moving to Cleveland.
Nate, I felt the same way about Andy and Delly. But there’s a difference with them and Kyrie. It’s WAAAAAAAY more tough for a player like Kyrie who is a HUGE DIFFERENCE MAKER in our championship hopes…..and has proven to be one. How many players like Kyrie will walk through that door for us? How many players are there who can compliment Lebron? Is there anyone that we can get before Lebron declines? We can get a player that’s way more well- rounded overall than Ky. But I guarantee that it is most likely that he wont get us the… Read more »
I would trade CJ for him yesterday. I said that last year and two years ago, too. KI seems to have a special place in twenty something Cavs fans hearts, though…
Yeah, well getting a bunch of role players, mid tier stars (e.g. Kemba Walker/Eric Bledsoe), prima donnas like boogie, old washed up guys like Anthony, or decent players with high chances of injury like Bledsoe is losing a trade. I would rather keep him and let him walk than lose a trade. Why? Because we would likely still have a better chance at a ship with Kyrie next year than any of those other trades. Porzingis is stupidly overrated and Anthony is old and washed up. Bledsoe won’t ever be healthy. Walker is not a superstar. Dame Lillards is worse… Read more »
BTW, let’s hear if for Kevin Love, who everyone bad raps, but never causes any problems.
Yeah. Love the dude more and more. Just wants to win. Some major Ewing theory potential next year.
+1000
I’m reading comments of trade scenarios for Kyrie but i don’t want to entertain any of it. Seems like many are ready to move on. Come on fan base.. As huge of an impact Lebron is to the Cavs/Cleveland/Ohio, I think it might hurt me more to see Kyrie traded (as per his request or not). He is more cultured here for me. How many HOF’ers have started and spent majority of their career here? This franchise lacked that identity of HOF players that associate themselves with that team. We have this chance to make it two with Kyrie and… Read more »
This front office…. How ungrateful that would be not to cater for the guy who made the greatest shot in history of Cleveland sports. We should be as hell bent to please him as much as we do for Lebron. I think there’s not much appreciation coming from the franchise (definitely not from the fans). That shot I think is a top 2 ever signature moment for us. I’d be at peace if he left after his current contract. I just think it’s too early for him to leave. I think what forced him to go on this publicly is… Read more »
You have lost your mind. LeBron is 100 times better than Kyrie. And Kyrie is now showing that he is a head case.
Even if it’s true or not Kyrie is leveraging whatever he can to not be in a situation where he ends up with a pile of trash team after this year. This kind of moves are the moves that Lebron’s camp would do. Now if Kyrie is a headcase for this, what more is Lebron?? I never argued Kyrie is one bit better than Lebron (well except for being clutch). But to say i’ve lost my mind is equivalent to you as not valuing Kyrie’s role to the franchise especially last year’s finals. All I’m trying to point out is… Read more »
It’s really not fair to expect fans to root for a guy who doesn’t want to be on your team just because of his past. It’s not like he is leaving after LeBron and wants to go chase more rings…
I’m not on his behind with his stand. But I can understand where he’s coming from. Lebron and Dan are so unstable this moment.
LeBron.
I’m not sure Kyrie is HOF level. Of course, I’d have never voted for McGrady, either.
Not yet Jason. But I think a deep 5-year run in the playoffs with great stats offensively, another championship, some historical clutch moments and being healthy all throughout, then he’s a lock. Same with Kev, even with lesser stats.
Well, Kyrie sure did kick start the Indians! Hope he can do it for the Browns, too.
Didn’t Kobe request a trade out of LA after Shaq left before rings #4 & #5?
My preference would be to keep Kyrie & see if he changes his mind. Plus, all the big fish are off the market. Still, if a good deal comes up, I’m OK to trade him.
Obviously this has to be played correctly, but this could actually be an opportunity for the Cavs to get SO much better. More athletic, more intelligent, better defensively, better ball movement.
Kyrie could actually be doing us a favor.
Big time. If they can get a big deal from phoenix, could be huge.
Yea, PHX has quite a few pieces I’d be interested in.
I am only down with a Phoenix deal if it includes Josh Jackson. Anyone else on that team isn’t worth it without Jackson included.
I dunno – I think we take for granted Kyries ability to get buckets. Thats a pretty rare skill and one that we relied heavily upon in a lot of playoff and finals games.
I dont think this is good for the cavs. It is,however, interesting and should make the regular season watchable assuming we make a big trade (for BOOGIE?!?)
I don’t understand your obsession with boogie. You want to trade a prima Donna for a bigger prima Donna?
I still say 33% chance this is a joke
Maybe this is just a plan hatch by LeBron and kyrie so gilbert can make the cavs more competitive… or the sad part of that plan is kyrie goes to the spurs or the knicks and LeBron joins him the following year. It doesn’t make sense kyrie suddenly doesn’t want to play alongside LeBron.
Who else is missing David Griffin right now? I’m realizing how much MORE valuable his abilities here in the midst of all of these. If only..
ONE MORE RING. That’s all we need. One more ring to.. 1. For this city/franchise to be proven as a High-Middle level organization. Separate ourselves from being like the Nets & Knicks, or the mid-tiers of the league. 2. Secure Dan Gilbert’s legacy as a great owner and maybe leave this franchise for Detroit. Of course hopefully being replaced by an owner who’s going to spend like Dan but a bit more “hands-off” and more structured guy. 3. To secure Lebron as the 2nd GOAT. 4. Kyrie and Kev to secure their winning accomplishments, then they can go chase stats… Read more »
Please to the Big 3 and the whole Cavaliers organzation. One more ring is all I need. Stay here until your contracts are up then go wherever the f*ck you want.
Even if the Cavs decide not to trade Kyrie, how will the fans react and how will LeBron/team do around him now that they know he wants out? Not a healthy locker room.
I’m really wishing this was all just nonsense.
He’s going to get more money here. He’s going to get more history accomplished here (in at least 3 more years, enough to get one more title.) because of being with Lebron. He’s getting more than enough global exposure on/off the court (nike, pepsi, etc. and being on a worldwide market because of Lebron). I’m not saying Lebron made him, but they really compliment and be successful with each other to the highest level as proven by the championship they won. Kyrie CAN maximize his potential as a player with corresponding high level of success if he stays here with… Read more »
I must admit that with all that what happened since we lost in the finals, with this news being the biggest blow, my fandom has been shaken for this team.
I’m on the same boat…
Also. The finals just ended a month ago and the Cavs are imploding from within at a ridiculously fast pace. It’s crazy what a year can do! KD going to GSW shook the NBA world off of it’s axis. Gilbert lets GM walk. What seemed as a contractual formality in Bron’s two year deal in 2016 now seems like an exit strategy and Kyrie wants out (more than likely to avoid being stuck with LeBron’s influenced roster). Perhaps the personnel side of this plays into Kyrie’s more “prominent” role elsewhere, and not just on the court (ie consulted about players… Read more »
I would take Josh Jackson and Bledsoe.
Add dudley for Shump an I’m in.
The key for me is Jackson. If he is in, and they get Bledsoe, the rest of the deal is whatever. I think Jackson is a future all star with all defensive potential. Bledsoe is a good player when he is healthy. He likely won’t be healthy, but getting a top 3 drafted rookie in a stacked draft class with two way all star or even super star potential is huge.
Kevin Love deserves to have a statue right now outside The Q.
This is sad.
Sounds like the cavs have known about this awhile, aren’t panicking or even pursuing trades. It seems as though they are going ride this out and see what happens. Good. Unless somebody offers them a stupidly favorable deal for Anthony Davis or the like, let Kyrie play out this year and playoffs. See if LBJ is willing to give over some control to Irving in the regular season and see if that is enough, getting Ky to be the leading scorer/averaging 27-28 ppg. Count on his competitiveness with Curry and see if the warriors get unlucky with injuries next year.… Read more »
Don’t know how much more Kyrie wants to be the man. Somebody mentioned that in the finals Kyrie took 6 more shots than Lebron, 15 more than KD and 32 more than Curry. Is he now afflicted with what Pat Riley refers to as the Disease of Me?
Sure hate to give Riley any credit, but that sounds right.
I doubt his decision was made by the finals. I think it was more based on the regular season. He probably wants a shot a MVP after seeing Westbrook and Harden, and Curry either win it or get close. If he leads the team in scoring and averages 27-28 ppg during the regular season, I have a feeling he is satisfied with that.
https://twitter.com/AmicoHoops/status/888548070585229313
Kyrie’s Dad sounds a bit nuts:
https://twitter.com/AmicoHoops/status/888491993944469504
Irving is a selfish player and person. He cares more about being the man than winning. And he has poor hoops IQ.
We don’t have any clue if he is selfish off the court. He won a ship, made the biggest shot of cleveland history and obliterated Curry before Curry’s life got incredibly easy with Durant. No way Curry outplays Ky this year without Durant on that team. Ky probably feels he has nothing more to prove on the cavs. I mean I kind of get it. He won and was a huge part of it and now he wants to see if he can lead a team to be a on his own. He almost certainly can’t, but he probably thinks… Read more »
to be a contender on his own.
Good luck with that.
Like I said, he probably can’t, but the guy wants to be the best player on a team, or at least considered as such.
https://twitter.com/breezyCLE/status/888510437146415108
It just doesn’t make sense… the Cavs give him the best chance to win by virtue of having the easiest path to the Finals, so it can’t be about winning. The Cavs can offer him the most money with the Super-Max, so it can’t be about the money. If it’s just about being in LeBron’s shadow, then it’s just ego and he’s willing to sacrifice money and winning?? But if LeBron is just going to leave in a year anyways, why not just run it back and then he would have free reign in Cleveland? Maybe there’s something else within… Read more »
what if cavs trade LeBron for davis…crazy it may sound but gilbert is not sure whether king will stay with us next year
They can’t. LBJ has a no trade clause remember? He definitely isn’t wasting a year in New Orleans, considering it is in the west.
That’s just stupid, plus LeBron has a no trade clause.
Trade Kyrie? No way. Best iso scorer in the league & plays passable D in the Finals. Plus he is still young. Keep him & hope he gets better at setting others up & running the team.
Despite comment below, unless a trade that makes too much sense surfaces, I also mostly agree with this, just ride it out.
Yep. Agree.
1. No actual guarantee LBJ doesn’t leave anyway.
2. Besides that our window could be shut anyway if he does stay and declines after two years.
3. Also, doubt KY quits in the finals, especially since he has a thing for playing hard against other top tier pgs.
4. Finally, it is possible that LBJ relinquishes some control in the regular season. He will be another year older. He will need even more rest. If Ky is leading scorer next regular season, anyone think that doesn’t change his mind?
LeBron is 100 times smarter than Kyrie, and it would insane to relinquish any control.
Kyrie is totally lucky he played three years with LeBron. Otherwise, he might never have been in the playoffs, or not won a round. There are probably plenty of players at Kyrie’s level that never won a round because they did not have the right team. His wanting to get away from LeBron is D. U. M. B.
It doesn’t matter what we think his chances are. It only matters what his goals are and what he thinks the best chance of achieving those goals is. The point is that we are better off with him for the next two years than trading him for any thing less than Anthony Davis, KAT, or a good player and top 3 pick from this year’s draft. Bledsoe and Jackson would fit that bill.
This does show what a dumb@ss he is. As if we needed more proof. In fact, I changed my mind. Move him. If we could get Bledsoe & Melo that is a win.
And dudley
I doubt Bledsoe stays healthy and I don’t want another Klutch client. A contract extension for Bledsoe would be horrifically terrible deal. He isn’t anywhere worth what he would get if LBJ stays. Melo is old, washed up for his contract, and he has always been god awful on d.
Exactly, he’s only 25 years old for Gods sake. He is only going to get better. I still can’t believe this.
I love Kyrie but I’m not that worked up about this. This is a good chance to still get to the finals and also get some assets. 3 team deal with Knicks and Phoenix and Clev gets Melo and Bledsoe and maybe a pick? Do the Cavs say no?
If they are trading, I don’t want old guys and guys with injury histories. I want young stars or superstars in their prime.
+1000
Agree. Kyrie’s one of the most entertaining players in the league, and hit the biggest shot in Cleveland sports history, but if the Cavs have to part ways with anyone, he would have been my choice to cut loose. His defense is such a liability. That said, a trade demand makes it tough to get decent value back. Will be interesting.
The Cavs better get some great pieces for Kyrie, that kid is a great scorer and scorers are the key for being successful in the playoffs.
Kyrie is a top 15 talent in this league and arguably a top 5 scorer in the league.
If the Cavs are going to trade him they better get someone really good back.
Nate – you know you want to see Boogie go HAM on Draymond
If only the Pelicans didn’t want to be dicks
Why, so Cousins can get suspended in the first game of the finals?
How about kyrie for steph…king james and love would easily beat the defense thrown by other teams.
LeSigh…
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y9dn5xhs
I know Nate would hate this but Cavs could always make Rose starting PG and do this deal..
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y77r9s4d
But we are from Cleveland, so….
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yafu6e6e
If only Parker wasn’t coming off a second major knee injury in as many years.
If we’re trading with the Pelicans I prefer this one… http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y7r6df5m
No. No. No. On boogie. The NBA is no longer a center’s league.
Especially not a center that has an fg % of 45% and is not a great rim protector.
AMEN
I agree with Nate this is not a center’s league anymore. No Boogie please.
How about Ben Simmons and some pieces for Kyrie?
+3 wins for Cleveland according ESPN Trade machine. Tristan+Kyrie for Whiteside+Dragic.
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine
Yeah, the wins plus or minus in the Espn trade machine have literally 0 bearing on reality. It is just a feature to get people to use it. It doesn’t take chemistry, matchups, team fit/need or other personnel that are already on the team into account. Hence, meaningless in the real world.
playing next to Lebron can make Dragic an all star. Age is the issue. Dragic,, I recall from his phoenix suns days was a good defender too.
He isn’t a good defender in Miami. No thanks.
Other option would be Conley. Don’t see anyone give young budding super stars in return.
Meh. I am cool with him walking. I doubt he quits in the playoffs.
Stop trying to ruin the Cavs.
Whiteside is not ball dominating C like cousins, perfect C for today’s NBA. I always thought Dragic is underrated PG. Lebron and Kevin Love will get more help with this move. Whiteside is kind of athletic big that gives warriors trouble. Whiteside averaged 18/18 against warriors in 2 games last year.
Kyrie seems to be doing a good enough job on his own ruining the Cavs
Trolling?!
Anyone know Altmans number? I think im solving this. Picture a 3 team deal. Cavs give Irving, Shump, and TT. Cavs get Boogie, + servicable point guard, + servicable wing. Something like that
Kyrie for Porzingas, 2 firsts, a second, & cash, and Melo signed in buyout?
I guess I would’n’t mind giving up Kyrie if we got a star back who was just as good. However, teams losing a star that wants out in a trade never win the trade unless they are rebuilding. Whatever. This team is exhausting. Never a day without some kind of drama. I say keep him unless we get a godfather offer, e.g. Anthony Davis or KAT. I doubt he completely gives up in the playoffs next year. And maybe it can still be patched up. After all, maybe LBJ relinquishes the remains in the regular season, Ky realizes he can’t… Read more »
Agreed with this. Let cooler heads prevail here. If no move is made you gotta think LeBron and Kyrie are gonna have a conversation…and boy would I like to hear it.
Get a star back??? !!! Bloggers here talk like he sucks. He can’t win as “the man.” Teams know this and we’ll be lucky to get Bledsoe for him straight up. A good, even trade.
Cavs have many options. Let’s not screw this up Dan.
i’m for love/kyrie for porz/melo…let the king be the point guard he’ll bring the best out from melo and porzingis
Ahhhh… I don’t think LeBron would be okay with that.
If he does indeed get moved, it won’t be too an Eastern Conference team.
Why so?
I don’t think they would want to trade him in-conference. That’s just my feeling. Get him out West and you see him only twice a year.
There’s nobody in the east that if they trade him to that they are remotely afraid of.
As the Cavs consider their options, sources said James has expressed to the team that he is focused on his offseason workout regimen and is planning to report to training camp with the intention of leading his teammates to a fourth consecutive Finals — no matter who those teammates are.
I love Kyrie. But here is the thing — LBJ makes any team good. He almost won the Chip with Delly as his PG.
If we can flip Kyrie into some players that fit well with LBJ and play great D, this might make LBJ stay longer….
This +100
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y9dn5xhs
I’m in on a deal that involves Irving for Boogie + a halfways reasonable guard replacement
Boogie plus someone plus D. Rose. Sounds good
Centers are as useless as capes. No capes!
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?
Well not the news I expected to come home to. What in the heck?!! I don’t get it. Sigh, this offseason started out bad and just got defcon 5 level bad.
Trade machine results: http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2017/07/kyrie_irving_asks_for_trade_re.html#incart_river_index
so that writer just thinks there’s no way the Cavs can get anything close to KI’s actual value…Those trades are all pretty much garbage…
I just ordered an Ankletaker shirt too. I’m wonder if I can return it?
Only jersey I own is a Wine/Gold #2 Swingmans. Ah well.
https://twitter.com/ZachLowe_NBA/status/888510888939970560
How about Kyrie for Davis?
lol. Should rather try for Whiteside+Dragic for Kyrie.
Barf
I like that.
Terrible.
Thankfully Kyrie has a no trade clause. I’m sure there are 20+ teams that are calling up the Cavs to see if they can get him.
Boy, I hope LeBron is engaged with the organization now. I’m sure he’s pissed and a pissed LeBron doesn’t usually bode well for his opponents.
KLove with the Burn….
https://twitter.com/kevinlove/status/888517280052551680
Wow that’s a nice jab
Does anyone think the Russians hacked Kyrie Irving?
Not funny Arch. I hate Trump and the GOP for what they are allowing to be done to this country,
Me too, but what does that have to do with Kyrie?
Bring back Delly!
/Cols714 starts doing shots and snorting whatever he can find in granular form.
That’s cute. Didn’t know you’d be that excited for Delly!
I hate the GOP.
What are chances Kyrie is flat earthing us? He loves trolling sports media. And this is the ultimate troll
But I think he actually believes the Earth is flat.
I”m glad the Cavs kept the FO stable by promoting from within. That’s the correct move.
Stable? The only FO Stable the Cavs are working with includes Mr. Ed the talking horse.
Nah. Griffin wanted money and power and left. The Cavs tried to bring in a president/VP type, failed and promoted a guy they’ve been grooming. That’s smart.
Supposedly Griffin not being brought back is one of the reasons he’s asking for a trade. The ‘upheaval’ upset him. If so, hope Gilbert is pleased with his ‘coup’.
Interesting… I heard that Griffin was the reason Kyrie signed the previous contract with the Cavs.
Griffin was, but if you read the entire article it states that Irving wants to be the focal point and almost requested a trade last year after the title.
Irving has expressed that he wants to play in a situation where he can be more of a focal point and that he no longer wants to play alongside LeBron James, sources said.
With this in mind, Irving considered requesting a trade after the Cavs’ championship last season but decided against it, sources said.
As usual you are coming with the alternative facts.
What front office?
Now that Kyrie has named the 4 teams he wants to go to it limits what the Cavs can do, unless they can work a 3 or 4 team trade.
Our leverage is so low. This is when bad trades get made.
If you were GM would you be beering right now?
I’d be trying not to. This is a job defining moment. Either you make a good trade or you eph it all up like Presti did with Harden and Pritchard did with PG13.
How is their leverage low? He’s under contract for two years and he is one of the best players in the league at the leagues most important position.
Our leverage is low because everyone knows he’s gone.
In two years. By that time LBJ may have declined and our window might be closed anyway. Keep him unless we get a ridiculous offer.
Ky for Teague, Wiggins and Tayshawn Prince?
Throw in Shump in the deal.
Teague can’t be traded until December
Hell no on Wiggins. Worse defender than Kyrie.
Hold onto Irving unless you get a good offer. Trading him like Harden or PG13 would be dumb.
Irving for Kemba and MKG. Who says no?
MKG can’t shoot and is injured most of the year. Kemba has gotten better, but is a downgrade to Irving, so no thanks!
I would take that deal. Maybe get Monk instead of MKG. Kemba is a fighter. Nobody is going to give us someone that’s better than or even equal to Kyrie.
Don’t we already have an undersized PG?
MKG can rebound, run the floor, finish, and defend. He’d be great in the Finals. Kemba, JR, LeB, MKG, and Love lineups would destroy everyone.
Kemba is a downgrade, but he’s good. With MKG we are going to lose some games in the regular season, but come the Finals you run lineups with Love at center and MKG instead of TT and we win the whole thing.
Good trade.