Cavs Roster Post Mortem: Part Two “Present”
2019-05-06Last week, we looked at the Cavs’ Rosters’ “Past.” Today, we take a look at the Cavs players that are likely part of the Cavs immediate plans, either from being on the roster this season or from being part of trade plans to accumulate assets over the next year.
John Henson
John Henson’s future with the Cavs is likely the hardest to predict of anyone on the end of season roster. He has one year left on his four year 44 million dollar contract so he has to somehow be part of the Cavs plans for next season. Because his contract was front loaded it is a bonus that this last year is the smallest cap hit possible at just under 9.5 million. Whether Henson will actually suit up for the wine and gold in the 2019-2020 season is up for speculation.
There is an argument for the Cavs to hang on to Henson next season if for no other reason than the fact that he is by far the best rim protector on the roster. While I believe that the necessity for a high level rim protector is often overstated, it can’t be ignored that the Cavs defense this past year was atrocious and could have benefited from some solid interior help defense beyond the point of attack. With a career average of 1.5 blocks per game (per basketball-reference.com) Henson more than doubles the average blocks of every Cavalier on the roster besides Marquese Chriss (who at 0.8 career blocks per game , even if he does stay a Cav, is not a player the team is able to rely on for any kind of defensive consistency whatsoever).
Henson is also a more than competent rebounder (9.7 career rebounds per 36 minutes), but perhaps the most encouraging thing is that just this past year he added the three ball to his game rather effectively. It is a small sample size, but in the 14 games he played this year Henson shot 35.5% from the three point line on 2.2 attempts per game (also per basketball-reference.com). Though this is the first year that he attempted more than seven threes in an entire season, that is an admirable start for a big man. I doubt he will ever be a player that is actually relied on as a long range shooter, but that’s not the point. What is important is the ability to stretch the floor and force defenses to respect the fact that he can be efficient from deep if they don’t guard him. That is a bonus that Tristan Thompson will never have and Ante Zizic has yet to develop (though Zizic has said that he is working on expanding his range in the future).
Given that Henson has a few compelling reasons to consider using him next season, the deck may still be stacked against him. Cleveland already has a glut of bigs (when they aren’t injured) and many of them appear to be in line ahead of Henson. Love and Larry Nance Jr. are widely acknowledged to be a part of the Cavs plans for the future. Tristan Thompson has been a Cavalier for his entire career and has also developed himself into something of a leader of this rebuilding team behind Love. Even Ante Zizic could likely be ahead of Henson if for no other reasons than the fact that the Cavs have invested the last two years into Zizic’s development and his salary is a fraction of Henson’s.
Due to John Henson not yet playing a single game back since his wrist injury, it seems unlikely to me that he will be traded before the season. The Cavs will problem “showcase” his return to maximize their returns. His expiring contract and mix of rim protection and newfound floor-spacing will likely make him attractive to several contending teams and I just have trouble seeing enough motivation for the Cavs to pass on the assets he could garner just to future clog up a crowded front court rotation. If the Cavs instead decide to move on from Tristan Thompson despite his history with the team, then Henson could very well turn into a valuable and versatile back up big man for Cleveland next year.
Brandon Knight
Brandon Knight is another player that is tricky to project his future with the Cavaliers. On the surface he was the starting shooting guard for the team for much of the post all-star break portion of the season. His first stretch of games for the wine and gold showed him to be deadly accurate from behind the three point line. While his long distance shooting cooled as the season wound down, he then had a stretch where his floater was nearly automatic whenever he pushed to score. Knight also served as a bit of a pressure release valve for Collin Sexton by sharing the load of point guard duties, allowing Sexton to play more off-ball and hone in as remarkably reliable catch and shoot threat.
All that being said, Knight’s future as Sexton’s partner in the backcourt seems untenable. Brandon has never had particularly high assist totals and is relatively undersized to continue as a shooting guard. The Cavs already have an overabundance of shooting guards on the roster and all of them have a size advantage on Knight. While he could slide back to his natural position as a point guard and come off the bench, that would put him into competition with Matthew Dellavedova. Delly has a slight size advantage over Knight, but more importantly Delly is a more tenacious defender and has a better knack for orchestrating the second unit’s offense. All of these cards are already stacked against Knight before even considering that the Cavs could easily end up drafting another guard before next season and further deepen the battle for minutes at his position.
The one thing that really complicates the issue of Knight’s future with the Cavs is the consideration of his return from his torn ACL. Knight’s torn ACL predicates an extended recovery timeline so that it is likely that he has yet to completely return to form. It won’t be until into the 2019-2020 season that the Cavs (or potential trade partners) will truly be able to evaluate how a fully healthy Brandon Knight will play.
Given that he will be playing on an expiring contract for over 15.5 million dollars this year, Knight will probably be relegated to a “wait and see” status until close to the trade deadline. If he goes back to pre-injury form (or even improves) then the decision of what to do going forward will become only more and more complicated. With the Cavs still trying to add assets, a midseason trade seems likely, but there are still too many variables to accurately predict what that might look like. Hopefully until these questions are answered the Cavs can continue to use Knight to help push forward the development of Collin Sexton.
Jordan Clarkson
Captain Band-Aid had a career year for the Cavs… sort of. Statistically, this season’s Jordan Clarkson looked suspiciously like last season’s Jordan Clarkson. This year he took 19.2 shots per 36 minutes with a 44.8 FG%, 32.4 3P% with 4.4 rebounds, 3.2 assists, 0.9 steals, 2.2 turnovers, 1.8 fouls, and 22.2 points per 36 minutes. Last year while on the Lakers, Clarkson took 19.1 shots per 36 minutes with a 44.8 FG%, 32.4 3P% with 4.6 rebounds, 5.0 assists, 1.1 steals, 2.7 turnovers, 1.8 fouls, and 22.1 points per 36 minutes. Looks shockingly similar doesn’t it? The biggest statistical differences were that this season he played 3.6 minutes more per game (27.3 up from 23.7 on the Lakers last year), took more 1.5 more threes per 36 minutes(5.5 up from 4.0 on the Lakers), and shot almost five percent better from the free throw line (84.4% up from 79.5% on the Lakers), but also had 1.5 fewer assists per 36 minutes (all stats per basketball-reference.com).
So why has everyone in the world been saying that Clarkson had a career year? Because the Cavaliers really relied on him, he played a lot down the stretch, and he often seemed like the difference between the wine and gold even being in a game rather than being horrifically embarrassed (well that, and because most sports writers don’t really understand statistics and only use them when they support their opinion).
To be fair, Clarkson showed a lot of good things this year and was often the backbone of the Cavaliers. I was also very encouraged to see the subtle but solid development in his passing and off-ball game after he started playing alongside Matthew Dellavedova. Captain Bandaid’s biggest feather in his cap to me this year however was how honestly great of a teammate he appeared to become throughout the season. I know he didn’t always make plays for his teammates, he is still prone to tunnel vision, at times he could disrupt the flow of the offense, and he still has more defensive lapses than anyone would like. That’s not my point.
After the season Channing talked about bringing Clarkson out of his shell this year (after reportedly being a player that mostly kept to himself) and that is the biggest difference that I have seen. JC’s body language this year displayed a comradery and affection for his teammates that apparently he hadn’t felt before. Just watch him when celebrating, supporting, or just enjoying the company of his teammates. This year Clarkson played with joy.
Perhaps this simple attitude shift towards the game is not as flashy or impressive as the faux statistically “career year” that people credited Clarkson with, but it could be more important. Last summer Clarkson knew that his passing game needed work and requested Ty Lue to work with him on understanding passing in the pick and roll. He flat out admitted he didn’t understand it and that no one had ever really taught him. Obviously Ty Lue’s classes were cut short six games into the season, but in walked Matthew Dellavedova. Go back through the interviews this past season and count the number of times that JC raved about and admired how smart and clever Delly was and you’ll quickly lose count. After Delly arrived was when many of us here began surprisingly commenting things like “great pass Captain Bandaid!”.
So despite the fact that Clarkson is still statistically much the same player he has always been, I am ready to give him an honest chance this next season. He has a rather large expiring contract and has established some universal NBA value as a sixth man of the year candidate, but I would hope the Cavs exercise caution before trading him away. I know all the reasons that JC is a flawed and imperfect player, but his undeniable passing chemistry with Larry Nance Jr. leaves me interested to see if that same vision can develop with the rest of the team. Come trade deadline next season there is still a chance that the Cavs trade Clarkson for more assets, I would just like to see if his development as a joyful teammate translates into better team play before the wine and gold gives up on him. Besides, “Captain Band-Aid” is one of my favorite nicknames in the NBA today.
David Nwaba
David Nwaba is a restricted free agent this summer but the word around the Cavaliers organization is that they want to keep him. I think that they definitely should. Discussing Nwaba as a 6’4″ shooting guard with an unreliable three point shot would miss the point of his value entirely. Nwaba’s outside shot seemed to improve as the season went on as he got more air under his shots, but his height is the bigger deception. While his height isn’t even particularly good for a guard, his massive 7’0″ wingspan allows him to play much bigger than 6’4″ would suggest.
I’m still trying to decide between calling Nwaba “Gumby” or “Inspector Gadget”. His superhuman stretchy extender arms make him an absolute terror in passing lanes and have led to an impressive highlight reel of monster blocks. Gumby’s mix of speed and length turn him into a defensive swiss army knife on a team that was severely lacking in defensive presence. It’s astounding that the same player could be an absolute lockdown force against James Harden while also slotting in as a power forward to help contain some of the strongest 4’s in the league. The Cavs’ first game against the Rockets started with a gut punch as Nwaba’s go-go gadget arms led to two or three turnovers and a breakaway slam within the first couple of minutes. If that was absolutely all that Inspector Gumby (see what I did there?) was good for, that would be enough for me.
He isn’t known for or relied on for his offense, but Nwaba is deceptively valuable there too. He is a fast and vicious cutter whose magical stretchy arms allow him to finish in traffic even when it looks like the defense is about to stop him short. Nwaba’s impressive upper body strength mixed with a soft touch floater also allows him to finish on the way down, giving him more time to show and draw a foul on his drives. He doesn’t often focus on offense, especially in the half court, but when the Cavs are in a shooting slump he could often flip a switch to carry the offense for a short burst by running and igniting transitions while using terrier like grit and determination when frozen in the half court.
With his defensive versatility, offensive determination, and constant presence as a lob threat, Inspector Gumby brings a lot to the table whenever he is on the court before even mentioning his passing. He is not a playmaker or asked to be one, but he is always willing and looking to make the smart extra pass. Nwaba perfectly established that on a memorable fast break where he passed on a dunk himself to turn and hand off to a trailing Larry Nance Jr. for a vicious slam.
Always a team first player that can reliably defend the 2-4, the Cavs would be foolish not to re-sign David Nwaba unless he gets a massively oversized offer from another team in restricted free agency.
Tristan Thompson
Never before have I seen a player transition from “untradeable” to “untouchable” as quickly as Tristan Thompson did this season. It is almost as surprising that he drifted back towards the middle ground of “very tradeable” by the end of the season. In the fall of 2018 Cavs fans had grown frustrated with TT. Watching a player that defined himself as an iron man hustle player decay into an often injured player with very little hustle quickly devalued Thompson’s stock in Cleveland. Everyone knew that he was being overpaid on his contract, but he had been valuable enough to the Cavs that it hadn’t been too big of an issue of concern at the time he signed it.
The 2017-2018 season saw Thompson deal with injury trouble early and he seemed to come back as a different player. His offensive deficiencies were easy to look past when he was one of the top offensive rebounders in the league and a center that could usually hold his own even when switched out against opponent point guards. When he came back a step slow, TT lost most of the things that made him valuable. He did have a bit of a resurgence in the playoffs, but going into a post-LeBron era the Cavs looked ready to move on from a player that appeared to be in decline. This is when that oversized contract went swiftly under the magnifying glass. In the past the Cavs had passed on some lucrative trade offers for Thompson and now those passes were really looking like mistakes.
At the start of this last season Thompson said all the right things about being a leader to a new young Cavs team, but J.R. Smith said a lot of the same things. Multiple losses, a Kevin Love injury, a head coaching change, and plenty of J.R. drama later, TT was clearly an anchor that would be tied to the Cavs for the remainder of his contract. Then something happened. Tristan Thompson became Tristan Thompson again, and he also kind of learned how to score. Suddenly he was part of the offense and the second best offensive rebounder in the league again. The Cavs chucked up way too many ill advised mid-range shots but TT was giving them second and third chances to convert. After awhile Thompson was averaging a double double for the first time in his career, becoming more and more of a strong leader, and was pretty much the heart of the team.
Then he got injured again. Then he came back and looked a step slow again. Then he was injured again. Again!
The Cavs decided to take Thompson’s next return incredibly slowly. His return started to feel broken leg slow. We’ve all seen how flawed a half injured TT looks, so that was probably a very wise move on from the front office. When he finally did come back, Thompson wasn’t as good as he had been for part of the season but he wasn’t “untradeable TT” like he had been either.
For next season it is hard to be sure what Thompson’s future will be. Having the summer to rest and recover means that it is very possible he can go back to the being the best version of himself. The big question is if the Cavs want to use him or trade him. Since next season is the final year of his contract he has inherent value as an expiring contract. TT has plenty of high profile playoff experience and his skillset mixed with his contract could make him valuable to a lot of contenders. The Cavs also have more big men than they really need. So they need to ask themselves if they want to stick with a familiar face leader in Thompson despite the fact that he has no outside shot and has never been a real rim protector. Their decision will likely come down to that question of weighing TT against the rim protection and developing outside shot of John Henson.
Even after trading either Tristan Thompson or John Henson the Cavs will still probably have one more big man than they really need. Despite that, I hope they defer on making that decision until after the season starts. I’m sure they could trade one of the two of them away this summer to clear up the log jam at center before the season starts, but with very little pressure of expectations on the Cavs next year it can wait. Both TT’s and Henson’s values could be strengthened by showcasing them at full strength. Taking time to make the decision also gives the team a bit of a chance to make sure they aren’t stuck in a jam from early injury troubles like they were this last season.
Channing Frye didn’t play big minutes but it is still worth noting that his backup veteran big man presence is gone. It would be a huge shame to move on from TT or Henson just to start another season behind the eight ball because of an unexpected injury. Meanwhile this showcase time gives the Cavs a chance to contrast their styles with the development of Ante Zizic and Larry Nance Jr. while discovering what kind of backup big man will have the most value to a young team still learning its own identity. No matter the direction the Cavs eventually take, I for one am glad that Tristan Thompson was to regain much of the affection Cleveland had for him after being part of the 2016 Championship squad.
Matthew Dellavedova
I hate not to include Matthew Dellavedova in the Cavs future, but he is on a rather large expiring contract and I don’t have 100% faith that he will end next season still a Cav. The question of his future with the Cavs will likely come down to discussions about how willing he will be to take a pretty hefty pay cut to remain a Cavalier in the future.
The second the Cavs traded to reacquire Delly the whole city was thrilled and he did not disappoint. His early three point shooting was unsustainably good and it took him a month or two at the free throw line until he had his first miss of the season. One of his first games back as a Cav had the old familiar sight of Delly diving for a loose ball and thoroughly tackling Fred McLeod in the process. He still had his signature hustle and annoyingly tenacious defense. Delly even helped seal a wine and gold victory with his textbook passing lane defense to force a turnover on a late game inbounds pass. The all out effort of Cleveland’s favorite aussie was just as good as we all remembered.
A little bit of time into his second tenure as a Cav led to a leveling off of his insanely good shooting. Minor injuries started to creep up and repeat for Dellavedova. One thing that didn’t change was his masterful work running the offense. The whole team raved about his intelligence and passing vision so that before long it was hard to remember that most of the players hadn’t known him since his first stint with the 2016 Championship Cavs. Around the locker room he was spoken of like a legend that lived up to the stories. Quickly other Cavaliers had notable improvements to their passing game while suddenly looking more and more for that perfect extra pass. His positive effect was amplified as more Cavs, especially Kevin Love, came back from injury. But make no mistake, Delly was a massive force in the cultural improvement down the stretch of the season.
Sadly we were deprived of him on court due to a bad concussion at the end of the season. I sincerely hope that does not make anyone forget Matthew Dellavedova’s value to the Cleveland Cavaliers. Perhaps he never attained that importance as a Milwaukee Buck, but Delly is still the guy that literally played himself into the hospital while shutting down Steph Curry in the 2015 Finals by shear force of will.
Dellavedova is more valuable to the Cavaliers than to any other organization. That doesn’t detract from the fact that he does add true value to the team. His ability to take the reigns of the offense and almost instantly calm down any situation led the Cavs bench to often be the backbone of the team. Cleveland can’t afford to extend him at what he made for his last contract but I hope they are willing to make as good of a pitch as possible to keep him for the long term. Delly is the perfect vet to help Sexton develop his passing and undersized defense. During the Cavs likely long road back to contention there a few players that Cleveland loves cheering for like Delly and his “treys”. Throughout the rebuild, the fan-favorite power of Delly and Cedi combined is a powerful force to keep ticket sales and viewership stable (though their rhyming names have already caused me to annoyingly mix them up in conversation several times already).
Celtic fans may have to revise their ’12 time All Star Tatum’ mantra a bit down…
kyrie 1-7 on 3 pt.. perfect again
https://twitter.com/WayneEmbrysKids/status/1126312089449127936?s=19
That Knicks Locker room is going to be freaking miserable.
charles and shaq should be ruthless tonight..
I think they’ll have ‘em shipping out on a lobster boat.
So glad the Celtics are out…now we can get on with watching legit good teams…
Knicks gonna give Kyrie the Bag.
with KD to follow?
BOS down by 25 (109-84) with giannis having a subpar game (20 pts).. perfect
https://twitter.com/oldseaminer/status/1126311114206253056?s=19
Kyrie definitely has attitude problems. No doubt. But worse yet for him and his next team, is it possible the guy is washed up? Or is he just that much more exposed as the presumptive number one option? Probably some of both…
He’s had four major knee surgeries in five years.
Wait did he have one this year?
Two last year.
I thought he only had one before those.
He has had his best regular seasons with Boston. He seemed to have made progress on d before he got injured last year and as a playmaker. I think he has been exposed more than anything. Not there. He needs someone else who demands a lot of attention. Plus he is and always will be a headcase. That matters. He is not good enough to offset the way he affects the locker room.
Or to offset his lack of effort sometimes and bad decision making.
i will ask again.. when does kyrie run from the building like a neutered pup?
kyrie 6-21.. such a great shooter
Super happy for George Hill too
He’s been good for them,for sure…not bad for a guy they got to clear salary…
just how damaged is the kyrie legacy? how poisonous is he? KD still in love? or does he need to crawl to LA and assume the position.. and allow LBJ to hump him
DID FLATEARTH POSSIBLY LOSE MILLIONS WITH HIS PLAYOFF PERFORMANCE / ATTTITUDE / ETC—–OR WILL HE STILL COMMMAND AND GET WHAT HE WANTS —“NOT DESERVES “
He’ll get the max from whoever he goes to…
I think they’ll be some reservation.
This is the kind of series by the Celtics that gets coaches and general managers fired.
Boston fans have convinced themselves that President Stevens is constantly outsmarting the league, so doubt he ever feels much pressure. I remember when Tim Bontemps, last year I think, was saying he almost thought Stevens was worth more than someone like Giannis, which is absolutely laughable…
Been reading some celtics live threads while watching. Fair amount of criticism for Stevens.
Yeah, you’ll always get that from a few people, but he’s not feeling any real pressure. Maybe if they disappoint a couple more seasons…maybe…
https://twitter.com/oldseaminer/status/1126309865230667776?s=19
GREAT ONE NATE– (STEVENS/ THIS GUY )—–YES THE KYRIE POST GAME SHOULD BE “EPIC” ——–
And we got Zz :)
And this one is over!
Garbage time comes early…
GEORGE HILL SKYWALKING!!!! AND CLOWNING ON THEM!!!
Giannis vs. Leonard should be fun!
Kyrie is 25-83 shooting in the last 3 games.
WOW…. Giannis with the INT!!!
Kyrie’s postgame presser should be a dilly…
Go Bucks! Enjoy the offseason Flat Earther!
Who’s running through a mental list of exit interview questions and answers right now? This guy.
Yes!!!!!
DITTO WHAT NATE / JOHNB SAID ABOUT THE BUCKS—-” ALL IN—FOR FEAR THE DEER ” !!!
https://twitter.com/ProHoopsHistory/status/1126295703721000961?s=19
Oh this is one of the best bball jokes I have ever seen.
Yes it is lol.
LMAOOOO CWEBB RIGHT…. BOSTON PUNKED ON THE BOARDS!!!
Big Al has to be used to it by now…
lol!
lmaooo yes indeed
I’m super excited for Milwaukee. Great town and definitely a rust belt compatriot. Great fans for years and they’ve developed almost all these guys internally. They seem really easy to root for and I’m hoping they’re set up for something special for a while.
Same I am hoping they take the ship this year.
koan for kyrie.. what is the sound of one lip flapping?
I love their team…really in that unless Kawhi gets serious help…happy for their fans, too. Assuming they play the Raptors, that will be an intense series…I still like the Bucks
Perfect court vision Giannis, Connaughton knocking down the 3. Up 16… loving every second of this!
lopez 0-7.. all 3 pt !!??
bucks would be up 20 if he had his head on
Plus a bunch of fouls and poor defense.
Ancient zen koan: If a Lopez Brother runs into Marcus smart and they both end up on the does anyone care?
Floor
Nice flop, Marcus…
I hate marcua smart but that call was garbage.
I wish Middleton got more pub. He is BY FAR the best player to come out of the g-league.
Lopez must have some money on this game.
I was just kidding, but now I’m not so sure.
Middleton’s jumper is unbelievably sweet…
https://twitter.com/JohnnyNBA/status/1126272321386438656?s=19
Magic still low key running the team…
Wish I could Stat up for Rockets Dubs. Cuz this game is Garbage. I’d trade for Beal if I were the Celtics.
Danny Ainge waited too late to cash in on all of his assets. How quickly things change in the NBA
He still has the assets to get Lonzo Ball…
kyrie was our secret trojan horse..
Lol Barkley: “It’s like a scrimmage. The Celtics just out there wasting time and energy.”
many legacies and contract values are dropping rapidly on the celtics side of the ball
That’s why he’s the best… ain’t afraid to tell the truth.
at what does kyrie run out of the building?
point
Horford screaming and bumping the ref… T’d up
President Stevens was flirting with a tech there, too…
The one time I’ll agree with Chris Webber, there were 3 techs on that play… ref showed incredible restraint.
One of the Celtics just broke off from playing D to complain to the refs as Brogdon was taking and making that 3.
hayward with more minutes than tatum ??!! after 2 q’s ??!!
President Stevens looks nonplussed…this Celtics team is really trash…
Antetokounmpo to Connaughton has to be a contender for the most combined letters on a basket in NBA history.
highlander redux.. flatlander kyrie slowly drops his head in surrender (like sean connery) to the far superior blade of giannis (lambert).. and whooosh.. it’s off
go bucks.. 4 straight celtics losses is like HF acid (re breaking bad) to kyrie’s legacy.. i’m lovin’ it
bucks 38-27 with giannis with 3 pts.. celtics are toast.. no.. they are soggy-wet toast
lol kyrie airball, then gets owned by Middleton in the post.
Getting a Lebron 2010 Celtics series vibe from Kyrie in this one…
yes, nasty petty dreams can come true.. i hope
GET THAT WEAK STUFF OUTTA HERE!
Having Giannis in the paint is similar to having 19 year old Patrick Ewing on your college team…he doesn’t let much get by…
If the Celtics go down big early, expect them to follow their ‘leader’ and throw in the towel…
https://twitter.com/TheSteinLine/status/1126246852800724997?s=19
Kurt Rambis is a champion and Laker legend. Have the courage to make the right hire, Rob.
https://twitter.com/mcten/status/1126259947262631941
https://twitter.com/DanFeldmanNBA/status/1126253097167224832?s=19
Oooh! Ooh! Push the red button!
Luckily Jason Kidd is still out there, lurking…
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1126242657666306056
Lol. What a sh#@show, but truly fascinating and hiliarious. The J Kidd as HC and Mark Jackson as associate HC fantasy is still possible.
The what if’s can go on and on, what if we keep Griffin at GM, we trade Kyrie for PG13, do he and Bron stay or do they bolt together for LA? What if we keep Kyrie? Do we another championship? What we know is we have a young team with promise and a lottery pick with the potential of a generational player. LBJ left, but Kevin stayed and Kevin is an all star. There’s a lot of teams out there that don’t have an all star or a lottery pick, we have both. Kyrie’s value is so hard to… Read more »
Yeah I tend to agree with the part where no one is all that better off. At this point I think the question is interesting to me, but purely in an academic sense in adding it to the data points regarding what sort of value teams get for stars who demand trade. The what ifs don’t interest me. Rather the question of what value for stars on the trade typically is at this juncture. From that point of view it sort of is interesting to look at recent trades for stars and their return to see what typical return value… Read more »
Now, did we get a good haul for Kyrie?
Probably not initially. Especially compared to the PG13 deal we almost had earlier. IT & Crowder busted here and the Nets pick was lower than we hoped.
Plus we lost in the Finals again & Bron left.
But we recovered well after that in subsequent deals & have assets outstanding. I guess it comes down to how valuable a player does one think Kyrie is?
I guess part of that also depends on what he does and whether he resigns with Boston. Of course compared to all the high first rounders they could have this year (3? 4? depending on how the lotto goes, I don’t remember the protections or numbers) Boston could potentially have, you could argue they gave up relatively little compared to their war-chest of picks and young players.
So, who ‘won’ the trade? If Ky walks Boston has zero players or assets from the deal. They made the ECF in 2018, losing in 7 to the Cavs in 7. But Ky was hurt and did not play. They also made the ECF in 2017 with IT, losing to CLE in 5. With Ky in 2019, less wins than 2017 or 2018 and a playoff exit 1 round earlier. The Cavs? We lost in the Finals without Ky, winning one less game. And then Bron left. Could a better Ky trade have prevented it? Perhaps but I doubt it.… Read more »
also.. remember, based on stats from espn, zizic and sexton together were putting up substantially better numbers for the cavs than kyrie was putting up for the celtics.. more pts, more boards (but fewer assists).. still.. better, at least for me.. sexton appears to be a 40% 3 pt shooter.. more icing on the cake.. he made great strides in his rookie year on a troubled team.. the kid is good, and will continue to get better.. i was very critical of the kyrie trade, but probably unfairly.. there was not a huge market for him, and the cavs took… Read more »
I’m no Kyrie super fan, as my posts here over the years will attest, but there is a huge difference from putting up numbers on a terrible team and being the best/ co best player on a playoff team. Arguing that Sexton was ‘putting up better numbers’ than Kyrie this season is not in any way persuasive.
read what i said.. siexton PLUS zizic were routinely putting up better numbers that kyrie..
as in “zizic and sexton together”..
So, final tally as of now:
OUT: Kyrie, IT, Frye, 2018 CLE 1st (Mo Wagner), Rose, Shump, Burks, 2024 Cle 2nd swap rights (Utah), 2021 Wash 2nd, Eurostash, $2.1 mil in cash.
IN: Brooklyn 2018 1st (Sexton), Zizic, LNJ, Clarkson, Delly, Hanson, Knight, Chriss, 2019 Hou 1st, 2022 Mil 1st (prot 1-10), 2021 Port 2nd, 2022 Wash 2nd, 2022 Hou 2nd, 2023 Port 2nd, Eurostash.
Whew: so totalling THAT up:
Out: Kyrie, Shump, Rose, Frye, Dekker, Eurostash, 2018 CLE 1st (Mo Wagner), 2021 Wash 2nd (in via Korver deal, out in Delly deal), 2024 2nd swap rights to Utah.
In: 2018 Nets 1st (Sexton), LNJ, Clarkson, Delly, Hanson, Stauskas, Baldwin, Eurostash, 2022 Mil 1st (Prot 1-10), 2021 Mil 2nd (Delly deal), 2021 Port 2nd, 2022 Wash 2nd, 2023 Port 2nd.
Deal #6: Burks (Sac) + Stauskas, Baldwin, & 2021 Mil 2nd (to Hou) for Knight, Chriss, 2019 Hou 1st, 2022 Hou 2nd.
I think you could only make a value determination based on what the average trade market value for stars has been recently. What did Minny get for Butler? What did Chicago get for Butler or did Butler sign with Minny, can’t remember? What did Indy get for PG? What did SA get for Kawhi? What will Pels get for AD? What did Sac get for Cousins? I don’t remember specifics on Kawhi or Butler. PG returned Dipo and Sabonis which is now considered a huge return, but Dipo was not what he is today. I think you can take previous… Read more »
I actually don’t remember how I took it at the time, because I think initially I wanted to let Kyrie rot and wait until the deadline. Then I sort of accepted it because of the Brooklyn pick and the depth of that draft. I think now looking back we got an average return, but I don’t remember what a lot of those other guys returned. Also NO could either get a haul from Boston, or they may be screwed if Kyrie leaves and Boston pulls the godfather offer from the table.
So, totaled up thru end of last year:
Out: Kyrie, Shump, Rose, Frye, 2018 CLE 1st, (Mo Wagner), 2024 2nd swap rights (to Utah), $2.1 mil, Eurostash guy.
In: 2018 Nets 1st (Sexton), LNJ, Clarkson, Hill, Hood, + Eurostash.
#4. Hill (to Mil) & Dekker (to Wash) & 2021 Wash 2nd (we got from Utah in Kover deal) for: Delly, Henson, 2021 MIL 1st (now a 2022 1st prot 1-10), 2021 Mil 2nd, 2022 Wash 2nd.
#5. Hood to Port for Stauskas, Baldwin, 2021 2nd (Port), 2023 2nd (Port).
Step One: The trade itself.
Kyrie for: IT, Crowder, Zizic, 2018 first (from Brooklyn = Collin Sexton), + 2020 2nd via Miami (later dealt in the Crowder/Shump/Rose for Hill/Hood).
Of course, it aint that simple. Pieces later involved in more trades.
#2. IT, Frye, 2018 CLE first (Mo Wagner) for LNJ & Clarkson.
#3. Crowder, Rose, 2024 2nd pick swap (to Utah) & Shump + Eurostash + $2.1 million + 2020 2nd (via MIA) for: Hill, Hood, + Eurostash.
As we (possibly) approach the end of the Kyrie era in Boston, let’s revisit the trade. From two angles. First, who won the trade? Second, realizing that winners can be losers and the reverse, did the Cavs get good value for Kyrie?
May is way too early to panic. July 4th is the panic date. Or more than 6 games out.
NO PROBLEM JOHNB——-AGREE WITH THE SALARY CAP NEEDED FOR BASEBALL——————THROW ANOTHER QUESTION OUT THERE —-IF INDIANS DO NOT LOOK LIKE CONTENDERS COME TRADE DEADLINE —ARE THEY SELLERS—SIMILAR TO THE CAVS —“START THE REBUILD ‘———————————HATS OFF TO MICHAEL MALONE __( PRAYERS OUT TO DENVER SCOOL )——-SPEAKING OUT ABOUT THE “EPIDEMIC OF SCHOOL SHOOTINGS ——–SSHOOTINGS IN GENERAL “——-THIS IS BECOMING ALL TOOO COMMON !!
I hope they don’t, but I could see them maybe trading away some starting pitching for prospects. Maybe Carrasco. No idea what the contract situations are as far as when guys are up for FA. Those are the guys I could see them trading. But don’t know who is or if any key pieces are. I doubt they trade Lindor or J Ram. They have to have something going forward. I mean realistically their window for going deep into the playoffs has shut. I mean they could make it if the twins fade or one of the two wildcard playin… Read more »