The Randoms: Finals Edition
2019-06-03This post marks the start of a semi-regular series by yours truly. I’m dubbing it, “The Randoms:” my random thoughts on the NBA and whatever. Here goes.
In the pantheon of bad hot takes, there’s a wing devoted entirely to second guessing success. The mental gymnastics professional sports pundits are going through over Andre Iguodala’s game sealing triple last night should definitely have its own exhibit.
Analysts knocking Iggy’s WIDE-FREAKING-OPEN three pointer because there were five or so seconds left on the shot clock when the ball went in the basket are baffling me. The few extra seconds left on the shot clock by not winding it down to the end are meaningless. The Raps were doing something I always yell at teams for not doing: paying attention to the shot clock.
Iggy surprised them by taking that shot when he did and won the game. How can you second guess that? If he misses, is it still a good shot? Maybe. Maybe not. Was the make random chance or fate? The Warriors have a shot at a long rebound and Toronto is unlikely to get a runout out of it given the Warriors’ perimeter spacing and that the Raps were mostly around the basket. But it doesn’t matter. We don’t live in the universe where Igoudala missed, we live in the one where he made it. He played to win instead of playing not to lose. As a famous poet once wrote, “you miss 100% of the shots you don’t take.”
The dopey takes of Stan “what if” Van Gundy and Max Kellerman (who should know better, but probably had to play Devil’s advocate anyway) are the worst parts of sports punditry: second guessing success. In case I need to remind you, Andre Iguodala is a freaking finals MVP. The Cavs dared him to beat them in 2015, and he did. Mercilessly. Also, there’s this.
Andre Iguodala owns the best plus-minus in the NBA Finals over the last 5 years (+164).
Not Steph Curry.
Not Klay Thompson.
Not Draymond Green.
— Paul Hembekides (@PaulHembo) June 3, 2019
Argh. Anyway, not enough people are focusing on Nurse’s baffling decision not to foul Dray as soon as he crossed half court. Green, despite the base9 triple double, was part of the group that made Nick Nurse’s box-and-1 defense on Steph so successful because Green and everyone else were afraid to shoot. Additionally, Dray was 0-2 on the night and 5-6 from the line. With only a couple seconds remaining between the end of the shot clock and the end of the game clock, an early foul gives your team many more chances to extend the game. It’s what Nurse should have done, because it prevents a game sealing play like Iguodala made.
Nurse outcoached Budenholzer badly in the ECF, but Kerr, after a Game 1 feelout game, got the better of Nick. The Warriors took advantage of the Raptors overplaying Steph Curry and used Steph to set off-ball screens and set up far too easy baskets for the Raptors’ bigs. This off-ball screening is what Ben Werth is always talking about when he goes over what separates good guards from great guards. Guards like Delly (not that he’s “great”), Lowry, Curry, Stockton, etc. use their gravity to set screens to get teammates easy baskets and make the offense unpredictable enough to keep defenses off balance.
Nurse also should’ve taken a timeout much sooner into Golden State’s 18-0 run to start the third. We sure as hell know Ty Lue would’ve called a rage timeout a minute sooner to stem the tide. Kerry rightfully knew that the best time to attack a home team is right after halftime before the fans get to their seats, and after Nurse’s timeout when the Dubs ran off seven straight, started running his counter-sets to blow up the lead even more. It was a blitzkrieg and won Golden State the game. Also, it’s a FINALS GAME AGAINST A TEAM THAT’S WON THREE OF THE LAST FOUR FINALS! HOW ARE YOU NOT IN YOUR SEATS, RAPTORS FANS? A little too much celebrating and feeling your oats for Toronto and its fans.
“You come at the King, you best not miss,” Omar’s famous line from The Wire opines. The Raptors whiffed badly in the third, and it could cost them the series. That’s how thin the margin is against the Warriors. Toronto finally had a chance to relax for the first time in weeks. It cost them dearly.
If it seems like I’m rooting for the Warriors here, God help me, I am. I don’t know why, but Toronto irritates me. Maybe I want the 2016 to be that much more special, and I feel it will be if no one else can touch the Warriors. Maybe I just want my predictions to be right. I can’t say why, but I’m certainly conflicted. I still think anyone not named Iguodala or Cook on that team is a douche though.
Speaking of Cook, how many teams did he play with before he stuck with the Dubs? Four? Five? He hit three enormous shots against the Raptors and showed why player development and commitment matters. It also showed why you want players on your team who work hard and are intelligent and mentally tough enough to play in high pressure situations. I’m not sure how many of those guys are at the top of this draft.
I often wonder if high level AAU players are the road to NBA success. In looking at the Raptors, few of these guys were highly regarded in High School and the draft. But if anything is a differentiator, it’s that length, strength, intelligence, work ethic, and decent base mechanics matter in the long run more than high level skills in college. Color me very skeptical on the likes of Ja Morant, Cam Reddish, Rui Hachimura, and Darius Garland for these reasons.
Speaking of Ja, he’s locked into the Grizzlies. There’s no way that dude would have gotten knee surgery if he wasn’t. As for R.J. Barrett, I’m skeptical if the Cavs should move up to take him if the Knicks dangle an offer. 5 and 25 for the third? 5 and the JR Smith contract for the third and Lance Thomas and <insert bad contract(s) here>? I don’t know. Barrett reminds me of Danny Manning: a player who was much better in college than the pros. Conversely, Manning probably would’ve had a better career playing now instead of then. He, like Barrett, always seemed like one of those guys who was good at a lot of things instead of great at anything.
Barrett reportedly turned down working out for the Grizzlies because he wants to play for the Knicks. I’m not sure he’d love being on the Cavs, and I’m not sure he’s any better than Culver, Hunter, or Barrett. I do know, the Cavs should not be taking a short, shoot first point guard, or a guy who’s biggest weakness is “caring.”
That’s all for now Cavs fans. Until next time…
I’m a little late to this thanks to a massive family blow-up (baby-boomers and being the sibling that stayed in Cleveland is a freaking minefield…)… …anyways, I really like the piece. Had the same thoughts about the absurd hot takes against Iggy (who I don’t like personally but he’s obvious VITAL to the GSW success machine). The mistake was the Raptors betting everything on their defense against a team that thrives on impossible shots. They should’ve fouled early long before giving Golden State a chance to ice the game on a rather easy shot. I liked Cook on the Charge… Read more »
Ps…sorry if i’m especially rant-y. Im still amped up from a screaming match with a 70 year old last night…
…freaking baby boomers….
https://twitter.com/oldseaminer/status/1136779016915030020?s=19
Exactly what I was thinking. Though Prince is more than a contract. He is young, cheap, and defend and shoot the 3. Legit rotation guy.
Yikes, the Hawks have 3 1sts & 3 2nds this year. Gotta be more moves coming there. A move up to 3/4/5 almost assuredly.
Hey Atlanta, have you seen Cam Reddish?? He is an amazing talent and waiting to be unleashed!!
I’d trade 5 and 25 for 8 and 10 immediately.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2817373-report-nets-trade-allen-crabbe-no-17-pick-to-hawks-for-taurean-prince-more
Hawks get 17th pick and protected first in 2020 lottery protected plus a second rounder.
Seems like a pretty big gamble on FA with only one max slot plus Russell. A. Is one addition enough to get that team past Toronto, Bucks, or possibly Philly (if they remain intact)? B. Either they know someone is coming or has a good chance of coming or they are really really paying a steep price for little chance of landing one of the major FAs.
My guess is they know something, or are pretty confident they know something. They’d better be right.
Or they are going to trade Prince to someone else who wants him as part of a larger package (Pelicans?).
Hawks now have 3 #1s this year. 8, 10, & 17.
They certainly could offer a great package.
I think it’s KD and Kyrie.
Yep. And if they only land 1 big fish, the could pair him with DeLo. Or keep him and deal him in an AD trade.DeLo, Harris, Carroll?
Does that beat Knicks 3rd pick, Robinson, a future first and Knox and or Trier? Delo and Harris are pretty good pieces. Carroll maybe not so much anymore. Of course Knicks might not do that unless they had knowledge of one or both of KY and KD coming. Trading a guy you just signed long term is not really a good look. Delo would need to be informed and approve beforehand. Otherwise you really kill your rep.
Do they have enough for Kyrie and KD? How much is Russell’s max compared to KD’s and Kyrie’s? It could just be Kyrie. They could max Russell and sign another max. They can renounce Russell, but I don’t know how much cap they have after that. Whether Russells max slot would be equal to KD or Kyrie’s maxes. Based on years of experience I think.
Easily have enough for Kyrie and KD… they just created 80m in cap space with the Crabbe trade.
Russell’s on a QO… they could easily keep him on the QO and let him walk, or sign him if their two max slot idea falls thru.
Ha nevermind then.
FWIW, Crabbe makes $18 million and Prince just ubder $4 million.
That would be close to the same savings a JR deal could provide, though Prince obviously has more value as a player. Still, I would gladly take one #1 instead of two.
Also, I think ATL won the trade.
Agree until we see what comes of FA.
True… becomes worth it for Nets if they land both guys.
(whether you can build a contender around Kyrie and some other player not named Lebron still to be determined)
https://twitter.com/ByJayKing/status/1136736830035058689
Good. Don’t touch players doing their job, you entitled douche.
https://twitter.com/ZachKleinWSB/status/1136744692652138497
In the wake of this (picture worth 1000 words) I hope this nonsense that Culver is not an elite athlete gets put to bed:
https://mobile.twitter.com/LakerFilmRoom/status/1134975331364794369
Visually impressive. Would be nice to have the words that say the actual no step or max numbers. His in game functional athleticism didn’t blow me away. But maybe he wasn’t somehow in situations to show it off all that often??
Also I will say there is probably some camera angle perspective distortion. I doubt his head is anywhere close to above the rim (if the hoop is currently set at 10 feet) since the camera is low to the floor. Can tell by the back of the rim being much lower than the front from the camera angle. If those guys are 5’10 to 6 feet he probably has a 36 to 38 inch vert in that shot since his feet are about halfway up their torsos if I had to guess. Hard to tell from a picture at that… Read more »
He played in a pretty strict system, and played well in it. I think he may blow up when he’s in the NBA. I’ve seen it happen many times before. We’ll see — I like him, so I hope the Cavs get him.
I am ok with him. Just not preferred. I don’t feel super strongly about most of the guys we have mentioned. I think most of them have a chance to be plus players. Just don’t think we are looking at high ceilings for most of the guys in our range. Which is fine.
D. O. U. C. H. E.
https://twitter.com/danprimack/status/1136656136843812864
Ha probably right in line with some of the tech a$@hats that the silicon valley show makes fun of.
The Dubs are unhinged!
Still a douche.
https://twitter.com/ArashMadani/status/1136675785274732546
https://twitter.com/MZavagno11/status/1136674577772417026
Article at the stepien, Barrett vs Culver…
https://www.thestepien.com/2019/06/05/draft-notes-argument-culver-better-play-rj/
That’s pretty fair. But I do wonder about Culver’s upside utility as an offensive player. He doesn’t have great handles, explosiveness, or a jump shot. He is an ok creator. But so is Barrett when willing to pass. Also anyone know what Culver was like last year defensively? I think it is hard to compare/project a lot of freshmen on d. They almost always have a ton to learn about team d.
I would still take Barrett if given the opportunity. But then again I also would rather take hunter and maybe White over Culver.
Also I guess the offensive limitations apply to Barrett too. But he did that as a freshmen against maybe the toughest schedule in the country. I dunno. I suppose I would rather go with either more potential in Barrett or a higher floor in Hunter than a guy who is sort of a mixture.
I’m sure the Cavs would take Barrett if he’s there. But I do think Culver could end up being the better player.
The argument rests on Culver’s defensive chops…. I’d say that’s fair. I’m not buying the idea Barrett took easier shots though. I’m definitely not upset if Culver’s the pick, I’m upset if they pass on Barrett though, because I think he has a chance to be special on offense.
Honestly, I’m still stuck on Hunter too…. really think he gets buckets, and I think he has the blue-collar game to invest in long term.
I didn’t think Durant would play in this series, but just hearing some of the reports now, I think he will…game 4 maybe, or game 5.
Warriors really missed Looney last night. Gasol was just clowning Boogie most of the game, which I expected to happen game 2, but Boogie played that game surprisingly effectively. I don’t think they can win the series unless Durant is able to play.
Bogut was infinitely better but he was about at his miniutes limit.
HIS ‘CONDITION” MAY LIMIT HIM LESS ON DRAFT —–AM SURE IF HE WAS ” ADAMANT ” ABOUT 1 PLAYER —THAT WOULD BE COMMUNICATED TO KOBY—WE SHALL SEE
Wishing Gilbert a full and speedy recovery, despite my oft criticism. That said, what do you all think the draft impact will be? How involved was he? It seems to me he was very involved. Will he try to maintain control? Will he trust koby and let him do whatever he wants?
YES DUBS PUT AN *ASTERIK BY THAT 2015 TITLE —–YOU NOW KNOW WHAT IT IS LIKE TO PLAY WITHOUT 2 OF YOUR TOP PLAYERS ———-ADMIT IF KYRIE / LOVE ARE HEALTHY / CAVS WOULD HAVE HAD 2 BACK / BACK PARADES
maybe, would have probably won in 2015 and not had the motivation to win in 2016
Game 3 is exhibit A for the people who think Draymond is the most overrated player in the League. It is easy to be a great passer and screen setter when you play off 2 or 3 of the greatest shooters ever and the spacing is absurd.
It is also easier to look like an All-time defender when you have length, quickness and high bball IQ all over the roster.
Seems like when you play on a “normal” team with average players they can make you look pretty average too.
Idk he’s pretty good man
Of course he is pretty good. I am just saying that the team he plays on makes him look exponentially better than he actually is. Put him on the Lakers or even the Celtics (I am talking about decent to good teams) and he looks average. He is an excellent defender and pick n roll player but not that much.
I mean a guy like Dennis Rodman probably wouldn’t be hall of famers if he wasn’t on that bulls team. Dray’s utility is definitely tied to scheme and other personnel. That doesn’t negate his value within that scheme. Curry’s value is probably also increased within a team scheme/personnel that sort of unlocks his maximal utility and gravity. I don’t think that decreases their overall value. The warriors with those three guys and in years they have had stronger benches were better than maybe the sum of their individual parts. But to get to that peak you have to have guys… Read more »
He’s not even close to the most overrated player in the league though. He’s the best passer on the best offense in league history and the best defender on a consistent top 5 defense.
The Raptors were one 18-0 away from being up 3 0 in this series. Also, their decision not to extend Game 2 by fouling either Livingston or Green could come back to haunt them too. You can’t give Golden State opportunities. Game 4 with Klay and possibly Durant will be a totally different game. Also, Game 4 will determine who wins this championship. If Golden State wins it buys time for all their injured players to ease back with the momentum on their side. If Toronto wins it probably doesn’t matter with two games at home needing one win.
One 18-0 run away, I meant.
Maybe, or maybe if they don’t go on 18-0 run Klay doesn’t get injured and they whoop them at home. You can’t take one variable and change it and not expect it to affect everything else.
I will say this, the way GSW played it safe with Klay indicates to me they are not that confident about KD returning for game 4 (or 5).
If you think KD is gonna play game 4, you can risk Klay. If it is iffy, then you cannot. Because if Klay goes down, it is over in 5.
They can only kick the can one more game.
Warriors in trouble if neither Klay nor Durant can play the next few games.
Good win for the Raps. Curry was great. Cook & McKennie good. Just not enough help.
Next game near must win for Dubs.
https://twitter.com/oldseaminer/status/1136478580442050560?s=19
Not so easy to win a Finals game with 2 out of your best 3 guys out, is it, Dubs?
https://twitter.com/SportsNom/status/1136465958963429377?s=19
well spoken.. those f*ckers are going down
Both teams have legit beefs with the officiating this game.
They’ve literally blown a call like every 30 seconds in the last five minutes. If not more.
Probably a travel on Kawhi, but they sure as hell wouldn’t call that on Curry, so whatevs…
Another awful call
There was no foul there.
How many steps did Leonard just take
Gasol’s error. Mars an otherwise great game.
Lowry didn’t get the same call on the loose ball that curry just did.
Curry got away with a travel there.
I love how travels are never ever called when a guy is on the floor moving his feet everywhere…that used to be an auto travel call, as it should be…
Jesus they’re just blowing every single call
Looked like good d from Ibaka on that last one
Agreed. Straight up and got the ball.
Time to get Ibaka outta there, Nick…
GD they just missed ANOTHER goaltend
Probably a goal tend on that block…Gasol will need to take it home…
Jerebko does something useful for the first time all game.
He should be a Celtic forever…
Lol
Serge bringing the block party…
This would be a hell of a comeback now
Lol…Curry defending Kawhi in the post 1 on 1 with predictable result…
Say goodnight,
the party’s over,
They say that
All good things must end
Call it tonight
The party’s over
And tomorrow starts
The same old thing again
Danny setting back picks like curry was last game.
Lowry has been damn good…
Huge three from Lowry…
Bogut went to the locker room earlier.
He’s old…
Was about to respond to your earlier msg re his health: “give it time”. Bingo.
Count on Jordan Bell to make some bonehead plays…
God, Ibaka mKes some dumb plays.
He really does…you just have to hope he makes up for it with positive plays…not a guy I ever want to depend on…
Dumb gets you beat, Serge…
How the eff is it 10?
Welcome to the playoffs, Quinn…
When did 2014 Danny Greens show up?
I think 2013 was his best Finals when he made like a gazillion threes in the first 5 games and was the favourite for Finals MVP. But then Game 6 happened and all was forgotten.
Curry should not be getting these open looks…make one of their scrubs shoot it…
just chkn in.. @ 89-75 @1:33 left in 3rd.. perfect.. continue on.. dubs – durant = maybe only very good
although.. no klay.. so maybe just not enought to beat TOR.. either way dubs need to go down
looks like dray leakn out his diaper a little
Danny Green flashback there
Danny Green huge tonight…
It’s a foul, Bray…STFU…
https://twitter.com/oldseaminer/status/1136465224574427137?s=19
After a weirdly passive first half Kawhi has come to life in the third. They need all hands on deck even against this depleted Warriors team. If Toronto somehow loses tonight it’s game
over.
Agree…he needs to be aggressive…if he’s doubled, find the open guy…
This is the warriors’ best lineup: Steph, cook, iggy, bray, bogut
Agree with Mark Jackson there — Raps D on Curry has to be better…he’s getting an egregious number of easy shots…
This cadre of commentators have always been Curry apologist. Cannot hold him accountable for any error.
This is the most aggressive I have ever seen Curry play.
Cousins needs to shut up and just play.. Every time he gets the ball, he flails and complains to the refs
If you don’t love that you don’t love Boogie ball…
I’ll give the refs credit for this — no calls yet on Curry’s “I fall down even though I was not touched” threes…
Getting found money from Iggy thees…
https://twitter.com/MZavagno11/status/1136456875539619840
Kawhi pretty passive that half… took what the defense gave him, but not necessarily looking to score. Meanwhile Warriors needed 25 from Curry just to be within single digits
Fantastic pass, cook
Time to mute the tv…Beadle is adorable, but the rest of those guys are poison…
Lol
https://twitter.com/brohrbach/status/1136431565674819586
I always assumed he crapped his drawers…thanks for confirming, P!
Lowry came to play but good God he has to stop fouling.
How dumb is that foul?