Live Thread: Cavaliers at Sixers
2015-01-05
Nothing says “woulda coulda shoulda” like the Philadelphia 76ers. The Cavs easily could have had both Nerlens Noel and Joel Embiid. Whatever poison you cared to pick was there for the taking. In back to back drafts, the Sixers choose the path most easily covered by tread. One can easily see the logic in choosing high ceiling bigmen. One can even defend the selections by pointing to Nerlens Noel’s relative success as a rookie. Regardless of your opinion on tanking developing young players, the Sixers have sacrificed wins for the development of young talent. The Cavaliers and David Blatt(who got a vote of confidence that wasn’t a vote of confidence) desperately need what Philly is cooking.
With Kyrie, LeBron and Andy(forever) out of the lineup, the Wine and Gold will look for a circa 2013 game from Kevin Love. Dion Waiters will get the opportunity to run the team for the first time since his successful stretch to finish last season. Sound off.
Will miss Amundson and Kirk as my favorite random strange looking humans seen milling around the Cavs bench before the cut to commercial.
There were rumors Cavs were kicking the tires on Kenyon Martin. Now that they have his former running mate from Denver, maybe they bring him on for interior help. Thug it up Cavs!
Sure, why not. Antawn Jamison, Ben Wallace and Delonte West aren’t doing anything right? Bring in some battle-tested veterans . . .
Jamison never played D, and Wallace is probably too old, but I’d take Delonte back in a heartbeat (doubt LBJ would though)
I desperately wanted Kenyon Martin (and Greg Oden) when we still had Bennett and Wiggins, just so we could say we had 6 overall number 1’s on the same roster. Now, not so much.
Anybody know when Shumpert is supposed to be back from his dislocated shoulder (that doesn’t sound good)?
When his vagina heals….
next week
Thanks Tom. Let’s hope that’s in time to maybe make a difference in the LA games if he flies out for them.
@PeterVecsey1: Had Knicks gotten warm six pack of beer, a potted palm & a used condom, it would’ve been a great deal. Hate games of JR & Iman. Loathe tudes
I would take those things over Lou Amundsen actually. Well… at least the beer and the palm…
I think the trade was made to set up another trade ( might be mistaken ) tim legler–ESPN – ( who I normally respect his opinion / judgement)—thought the cavs got the bets of the trade and questions okc for picking up another gd—just passing the info on—-call me the ” 2nd coming of cols ” and not trying to make excuses for the cavs loss to the lowly 76er’s —but you have to admit there was a lot going on with this team before the game / also marion’s injury didn’t help the rotation / depth at all—let’s just… Read more »
Of the two, I think only Shumpert is moveable and he’s the one you’d want to keep. NOBODY is going to take JR and his contract for 15-16. Knicks were probably thrilled to dump him. In fact, I’d be willing to put a small wager on the idea that the Knicks forced the Cavs to take JR if they wanted Shumpert.
6 Mill right? Thats not bad at all for the 2012 sixth man of the year.
It’s bad for a team like the Cavs who already have a precarious cap situation and need to pay LBJ, KLove and probably TT in the coming off-season.
Not saying it is likely to happen but if Love leaves and Shumpert doesn’t show enough to warrant the Cavs matching an RFA offer, the Cavs will effectively have traded away two overall #1s, a future #1 and Dion Waiters for J.R. Smith.
That just made me throw up in my mouth a little.
Maybe the Cavs wanted to trade Dion for Reggie Jackson but Okc didn’t.
When LBJ and the rest of the Cavs get healthy they will have to get into a good win streak if they want to at least end in the top 4.
Cavs now have 16 losses. That’s halfway to 32 which is all they can lose and still be a 50 win team. Aside from a brief (possible) respite against the Lakers, they most likely lose 5 of the next six with Houston and the subsequent road trip without LBJ. So that’s 21 losses at the halfway point of the season. Let’s say, optimistically, LBJ comes back for the Bulls game on 1/19. They then have to go 30-11 the rest of the season to hit 50 wins. Does anyone else think this is doubtful at this point?
They have the following games post Jan. 19, that I would categorize as follows: Opponent favored (13 games): Thunder, Blazers, Clippers, @Bulls, Warriors, @Rockets, @Raptors, @Hawks, @Mavs, @Spurs, @Grizzlies, Wizards, @Bulls Toss-up (7 games): @Pistons, @Pistons, Suns, @Heat, @Bucks, @Nets, @Bucks Cavs favored (20 games): Jazz, Hornets, Kings, @Wolves, Sixers, @Pacers, Lakers, Heat, @Knicks, @Pacers, Celtics, @Magic, Nets, Pacers, Sixers, Heat, Celtics, @Celtics, Pistons It’s hard for me to imagine this team making a 30-11 run based on their schedule and their play to date. I’d say 25-16 ish at best, with a very realistic .500 downside if injuries continue… Read more »
No more blown right-handed layups on the left side of the basket!!! Woot!!! No more 19-foot step back fadeaways!!! Woot!!! Best of all…no more screaming for ghost calls on every lightly contested drive, and no more stomping around like a 4 year old every time the team ignores his constant screaming for the ball.
WOOOT!!!!
Have you watched JR Smith much lately. Trading one head case for another makes no sense. I believe that Waiters has great upside with the right team and coach, and he is very fortunate to be going to OKC, which has both. No one on the Cavs listens to Blatt- what possibly makes them think that a guy who couldn’t respond to an organization led my Phil Jackson will do anything for Blatt.
Waiters is a bum and won’t matter at all to CLE sportfan in approximately 1 month.
You could make the case that Kobe never really listened to Phil, or that Lebron has tuned out every single coach he’s played for sans Coach K. Even Larry Brown. I haven’t seen anything out of the ordinary with this team and coach.
Kobe didn’t listen to Phil the first time around and they won because of how dominant Shaq was (and how much the NBA wanted them to win – for example, the refs in the 4th quarter of the Kings game). The second time around, Kobe totally listened to Phil, because he knew he needed to. Mj listened to Phil and didn’t listen to Collins, which is why they got rid of Collins. And everyone on SA listens to Pop, but of course, Duncan sets a great example as a player. Durant listens to Brooks. I don’t really get your point.… Read more »
Let’s compare > Dec 2006 Smith was in a Nuggets brawl in which he was suspended 10 games. Oct 2007 Smith in a bar fight, suspended 3 more games, 2011 smith joined the Chinese Basketball League during the lock out, In doing so, he delayed his returned to the NBA several months later. April 2013 suspended a playoff game against Terry. And THEN Sept 2013 he was suspended 5 games for prohibited drug use. Jan 2014 fined 50,000 for the immature unlacing sneaker pranks. Dion NEVER suspended, not arrested for any bar fights, never join over seas leagues in the… Read more »
You are correct and I admit it. They are not comparable.
No they aren’t comparable in terms of off court behavior. Dion is a Saint compared to Smith.
But on the court they are similar in effectiveness. And Smith has always been a decent 3point shooter
So…fight on court. Fight off court. Played overseas. Smoked weed. Unlaced shoes. Not good…but I’ll take that over a player who goes out of his way to show up teammates and refs all game long on a nightly basis. Thats just me, though. Again, bith are dimwits.
Um… getting JR Smith is all those things and worse.
Someone on another said that it’s like trading pneumonia for emphysema.
No. Smith is a shooter. He shoots. Dion is an undersized penetrator who can’t finish with the left, and takes terrible perimeter shots. I liked Dions defense, but lets be honest.
The biggest difference, JR had problems with coaches, not other players. Blame his dad, who actually encouraged him to ignore coaching. Dion had friction with teammates and HORRIBLE on court demeanor. Good riddance.
Let’s be honest… neither is all that good for the Cavs. Shumpert is an upgrade on D (when healthy). Cavs still need a big man and they probably blew their shot at getting one that wasn’t off the scrap-heap or D-League pile by panic-trading Dion at this point.
My point is that none of us haver any real insight into the locker room, and the silly notions that Blatt lost the team already has no real basis. You could apply the Cavs current circumstances to dozens of player/coach relationships. Karl put it best:
“I’ve got two and a half hours with 15 guys,…There’s no leader in the world or coach in the world that can motivate or energize all 15 of them.”
I agree, George. Scapegoating FTL.
Was replying to Mark above, sorry
I really don’t understand any defense of Blatt anymore. First of all, he has always played Delly too much. Delly has extremely limited talent. Almost every shot he takes is wide open and he is shooting in the low 30’s. He cannot penetrate and finish so all they have to do is lay off of him when he does so. He gets abused time and time again on defense. He might try hard and be the nicest guy in the world (who knows) but that doesn’t mean he should be a meaningful part of a rotation on a top-flight team.… Read more »
I figured if the Cavs traded Dion it would be because they were desperate for frontcourt help. I don’t understand this trade.
That is why I think they are going to trade one of them for a big. Unless they are planning to play small ball offense the rest of the season.
I hope not.
Maybe they are going to trade the OKC pick to the Lakers for Sacre. I’m not saying he is any kind of a solution but that seems like a deal both teams would make.
I watch the Lakers all the time living in LA (yes, I’m a glutton for punishment). Trust me, you do NOT want Sacre. If anything, you’d want to try and get either Ed Davis or Jordan Hill if there was a way to make the contracts work.
No I agree, Sacre is terrible and I don’t know why the Cavs seem to be interested in him. I agree Ed Davis is the guy to get out of the Laker bigs.
The only positive side I see to this trade is that the Cavs are getting 2 players with playoff experience that could really help them come playoff time. Also this move means the Cavs are not planning to develop young players…. It seems. I wouldn’t be surprised if they make another trade to get a couple more experienced veterans.
Griffin looked so desperate yesterday to media. I knew Dion was his target when he kept selling him by saying he can drive to the hole and can be as great passer like Lebron. The gig was up. Honestly, my gut is telling me Cavs will regret this. I’m sicken by it. The only bright side because yes I am a Dion fan is that he is going to a good team and a much much better coach in Scotty Brooks. He will thrive in this pace he wanted so badly to be in with Cavs but had a hard… Read more »
correction What you got from him was real.
Winners tonight: Dion Waiters and OKC
OKC essentially gave up a late, late first round pick for Dion. I can’t believe there weren’t five other teams willing to give up a #1 past 15 for Waiters. Apparently, NBA organizations aren’t that high on him.
They still have Scott Brooks as the coach.
Kevin Pelton gave the Thunder a D. The Cavs an A- and the Knicks an A.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/12126107/nba-knicks-cavs-thunder-swap-dion-waiters-iman-shumpert-jr-smith?ex_cid=InsiderTwitter_pelton_cleOKCNYKtrade&refresh=true
It’s raining cats and dogs if Pelton gives that much of a praise.
How did he give the Knicks an A for taking on Lou Amundsen? That should be a minus.
Pelton’s opinion of Dion is really low . . . I know he is an analytics guy but I don’t feel like he’s ever watched any of these players play this season, his article is based on just number-crunching. I would also note he gave the Celtics a B+ and the Mavs a B- on the Rondo trade, and gave the Cavs an A and the Timberwolves a C- in the Love trade. I’m pretty sure the Mavs and Wolves are pretty happy with how those trades turned out, and suspect the Thunder will be as well, with Dion. I’ll… Read more »
Well – he didn’t say that Shumpert was necessarily better than Dion – just a much better fit.
Also the Cavs got a pick. And I actually think J.R. Smith is much needed right now. I mean he’s not better than Dion necessarily either but he’s bigger, faster, stronger, and shoots 3s better. All things I think the Cavs need.
Of course he’s also mindless
Well they sure got a big upgrade in the tattoo department ;)
I am glad that they at least GOT a pick instead of SURRENDERING a pick which I was most afraid of with this move.
it’s just a pure salary dump move by the knicks He gave them an A because they got someone to take J.R. Smith off their hands.
Gave the Cavs and A for Shumpert and the pick.
Gave OKC a D because he doesn’t think Waiters is good or fits there either.
@ReghiThesaurus: Dion converts 2 Islam & the Cavs trade him 4 a DAMN #IMAM? Yours truly failing 2 grasp these uhh ISLAMOCLASTIC DYNAMICS! #Waiters #PERPLEXED
Is that really appropriate to single out his religion on here? What is the motive?
You don’t understand comedy.
It is YOU that doesn’t understand Islam faith . Oh yes I did perfectly understand . Comedy involving someone’s religion ISN”T and I am personally offended.
Can you tell me what is offensive? I was raised catholic but I’m probably more of an agnostic so I’m not offended by any sort of religious jokes.
We’re considering sanctions against Aarch Arch for punning Iman and Imam. Next tie h makes a pun that bad he’s suspended.
I hate the trade. If Shumpert were the concept of Iman Shumpert and not the reality, to paraphrase a better writer than me, Phil would keep him because that Iman Shumpert is tailor made for the triangle. At least Shump is perpetually injured and was more interested in the New York nightlife and his non-burgeoning rap career than putting out constant effort every night for the Knicks, which is why Phil Jackson and Derek Fisher gave up on him 32 games into the new regime and traded him for cap space. Phil Jackson couldn’t get him to focus on playing… Read more »
In defense of Delly – he looked competent for the first 44 minutes of the game.
Obviously needed to get the ball to Love more. They ran one nice pick and roll with him down the stretch that worked, then went back in to the ridiculous post-up-but-unable-feed-the-entry-pass strategy.
Defense would have been nice. How about Shawn Marion on Wroten ? I’m not sure why we were sitting Marion who is a good wing defender and playing James Jones down the stretch – especially when we had the option to alternate offense for defense.
This team blows.
@ChrisBHaynes: LeBron James and J.R. Smith have a solid relationship dating back to high school. Smith used to train with James in Akron over summers.
Sounds like LeBron will be just as bad of an owner as Jordan in 15 years.
OK. I was digging through old stories…I thought I remembered they were close. I think LBJ took him under his wing as a fellow HS draftee.
I have a very hard time blaming Blatt. It was all on execution tonight. Cavs couldn’t shoot, and the guys on the floor didn’t defend well. Blatt’s not blowing free throws.
I would agree, if the game was close, but Cavs had a 17 point lead halfway through the third quarter. There was no need to shoot a barrage of jumpers that wouldn’t go. Just feed the guys down low. Should have been more fouls to slow down the Sixers attack. He’s not fully to blame, but he deserves at least some of it.
You can’t force it down low in Today’s NBA. You’ll just turn it over.
But with good passing and guys moving off the ball, you can get guys open on the weak side. You’ve made mention of this recently
Blatt is the coach. If the team isn’t executing – repeatedly – doesn’t that ultimately fall on him?
I was a huge supporter of hiring Blatt and am surprised how bad the Cavs have looked all season. He’s 30+ games into the season and he still doesn’t understand rotations or the rigors of an 82-game schedule. He looks lost.
Meanwhile, I think Delly’s 15 minutes are over.
There is no joy in Mudville.
I knew Dion would eventually remind LeBron too much of Ricky D. Love told Flip he wouldn’t sign anywhere else…The Cavs could have played hardball and made the Wolves take a package featuring Dion instead of Wiggins. Epic fail.
Good job, LeBron the GM, lol.
Lol maybe LeBron is doing his rehab and being involved with these trade.
I don’t think LBJ would have pulled the trigger on JR since they don’t like each other.
Exactly. Is weird they got JR unless they are going to trade him.
Im convinced that Dion would have been purged had he not been part of “The Letter”. LBJ’s whims are fully responsible for this roster.
Ricky Buckets was a better scorer than Waiters
“Love told Flip he wouldn’t sign anywhere else…The Cavs could have played hardball and made the Wolves take a package featuring Dion instead of Wiggins. Epic fail.”
I agree with this. I will never understand why we had to give up so much for Love when everyone knew it was his last year in Minnesota.
Dion and Bennett would of been the deal. Wiggins can ball, play D, is a good kid and will be a stud in 2-3 years. If anything reeks of David Griffin panic mode it was the overpayment for Love.
I actually can’t wait to buy a Saint Weirdo OKC jersey. I wonder if he’ll keep #3?
TT looked absolutely GASSED in the fourth quarter. He’s been hyper-extended since Andy went down.
That was key too. I think the whole team gassed out at the end.
If Blatt and Griff were sick of the media spotlight before… How about NOW?
Cavs can’t get defensive stops when they need them and they will not win consistently if they don’t learn how to get those stops.
What does it say about the state of this team when they’re trading for help from the 5 win Knicks on the eve of losing to the NOW 5 win Sixers. I’m going to go throw up.
Exactly. I’m surprised the Cavs got JR Smith. If I recall correctly Smith has always been a LBJ hater.
This will be one of the games Love will point to if he winds up leaving in the summer.
Honestly, even as a hardened Cleveland sport fan for the past 40+ years, I never thought this team would sink so low.
All this talk about culture is a joke. Trading for JR Smith is beyond ridiculous. I would take him for free on a vet minimum contract.
2015 predictions:
Cavs lose in first round of play-offs to the Wizards (which especially sucks for me because I live in DC)
K-Love re-signs two year deal with Cavs with player option after the first year.
Cavs fire Blatt 11 games into the 2015-16 season after a 6-5 start.
At this rate, with this roster, they’ll be lucky if they aren’t the 6 or 7 seed and lose to Chicago or Toronto in the first round.
I don’t want him to leave, but KLove would be stupid not to at least consider his options given how things have gone.
Blatt probably doesn’t make it to next season if they get bounced in round one.
It sounds like the Thunder may be giving the Cavs a first round pick….
Which will wind up being #32 after they win the ship this year…
That would be a second rounder
Sorry #30 then. My bad
This team is flat out bad. I know we are missing some (ALL) of our key pieces, but this is such a stain on the coaching staff. They couldn’t even cobble together a competent game plan against what is, for all intents and purposes, a team that is TRYING to lose.
I’ve been a Blatt supporter, but this is awful. He has no control over this team and the way they play.
I have a bad feeling that Waiters will be another Chauncey Billups — someone who finds the right situation/grows up/makes his peace with his situation and blossoms into a star.
Especially on a team like the Thunder. He might just finally soften the blow of trading Harden for them
They gave up 35 points in the fourth quarter. 35 POINTS! TO THE 76ERS! That’s INSANE!
PLEASE DON’T TRADE WAITERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dude, you’re a little late on that one…
Whatever – the worst thing about this is you pretty much knew the Cavs were going to blow this as soon as the Sixers closed it to six points. I’m sick of all of the excuses. I’m sure Blatt can coach, but tonight was a major FAIL on him and the rest of the team. All you have to do is put the ball in Love’s hands. The Sixers are pretty much a lock to foul him. It’s just a pathetic loss. The Sixers are a joke of a team, but so is this Cavs team. A bad joke. And… Read more »
Sixers with 35 4th quarter points.. Lolololololol
17 point lead squandered… #epicfail.
I knew I should’ve just watched Gotham.
I would not blame Ben for rage quitting this recap. Should just be a headline…
CAVS HIT ROCK BOTTOM AND LOSE TO THE SIXERS (OR THE DAY SAINT WEIRDO LEFT TO JOIN THE 2015 CHAMPS)
On the bright side, Ad Woj now says the Cavs rather than the Knicks will get the OKC first-round pick that’s part of the trade.
I like Delly but he should not be put in that situation.
I’m overreacting maybe but this team has some serious problems. And I don’t think a chucker and a Shump can fix.
I guess the Cavs don’t need LBJ to play to cough up a big lead against an inferior team. I know they only had a four man bench tonight, but seriously there’s no excuse for losing this game.
On another note, I want more than Shumpert and a head case for Dion.
Jeez. Delly got mugged there.
He actually didn’t. Reply shows very little contact. Really annoying loss
Disagree, but Delly’s not getting that call late. Actually, Durant’s not getting that call late in Philly. There’d have been a riot.