Live Thread: Cavs @ Bucks
2022-11-16Cavs take on the Bucks tonight, and will be missing Jarrett Allen. Lamar Stevens will start for him. Donovan Mitchell is going to play it seems, but despite Dean Wade being out, the Cavs a shot. I, personally, would’ve started Robin Lopez, if just to see two Lopezes battling when Rolo takes on his brother Brolo (should that be Broolo?). Speaking of brothers, Isaiah Mobley (along with Miamade Diakite) are also available tonight. The Cavs really need a win after four straight losses (all of which were close) but the league best Bucks don’t seem inclined to give them one.
At 10-3 the Bucks have found something in Javon Carter, who’s averaging 23/3/8 over the last three games. Meanwhile the Cavs have to deal with five other guys who average double digits and probable MVP Giannis. Somehow I think this comes to the wire again. I’m gonna pick the Cavs by four because nothing would be weirder than winning this one.
cap up!
“ELDER ” MOBLEY HAVING A GOOD 1ST QTR FOR THE CAVS —9 /6——QUESTION WHY CAN’T WE DO WITH HIM THAT WE DID WITH LAURI—MAKE HIM A SMALL FORWARD —–SEEMS TO HAVE SIMILAR SKILLS AS LAURI —COMMENTS –OPINIONS
his shot isn’t as consistent, but not the worst idea.
SOOOO TRUE CMT—–FELT LIKE WE KIND OF GAVE AWAY THE CLIPPERS// KINGS GAMES — GOT IT HANDED TO US IN THE OTHER GAMES —–SEE WHAT WE ARE MADE OF TOMORROW NIGHT——THE CAVS WILL NOT ‘SNEAK ‘ UP ON ANYONE LIKE LAST YEAR—THEY HAVE A “TARGET ” ON THEIR BACK–BETTER GET USED TO PLAYING WITH THAT PRESSURE —” GO BIG OR GO HOME “
Growing pains were expected. Don’t know why people are freaking out over this losing streak. Really it should only be a 3 game losing streak, but they lost a few games they should have won. Don’t seem to be many bottom dwellers this season and most people are playing up to take down the Cavs.
Every season is a unique journey. For me the biggest worry is the inconsistent bench play. Some nights they are en fuego, other nights they are invisible.
STILL THINK WE WILL ” FIGURE IT OUT—GET HEALTHY ” AND FIGHT FOR THE 6TH—7TH SPOT WHICH WERE THE REAL EXPECTATIONS BEFORE THE SEASON BEGAN …………..AND RUBIO COMING BACK AND LOOK OUT “WHEN ” —-” GLASS” WINDLER GETS HEALTHY—SORRY COULD HELP BUT THROW IN A LITTLE SARCASM
Agreed. It’s a long season. Good to be going through this stuff that exposes our needs now rather than in April like last year!
SADLY—-VERY WELL PUT ABOUT CARIS—-EVRYTHING LOOKS TEXT BOOK PERFECT EXCEPT THE END RESULT…………….” MORE BEER PLEASE “
Also, anybody notice how elite Caris is at getting open for midrange (and even closer) looks and how inept he is at finishing them? He has that silky motion and weird bouncy energy, then rises up, hangs beautifully in the air and… CLANG.
It “appears” to me (just from watching all the games on Team Pass, I don’t have stats for it) that on most of his short range pull-ups, the lane was open to get all the way to the rim. Defenders usually aren’t cutting off his drives, he’s stopping himself. I don’t why he’s so hesitant, and I know nothing about coaching, but if I was his coach he’d tell him, “I want all your shots coming from 3 or at the rim. On the drive, you can kick it out, pass to a cutter or take it to the rim.… Read more »
That’s basically been his entire career scouting report. If he had any touch at all on those he’d be an elite scorer. But alas, he has no touch on those shots.
To me, the biggest problem is that we’re not putting any pressure on the opposing defenses. No transition O. Getting into our sets late. DG taking 3s ALL THE TIME instead of driving like he did last year. The defense is never back on their heels. That sad-eyed blank Mobley stare he gives in interviews is currently the spirit animal of this team. Everybody looks depressed. Caris to the second-unit is a no-brainer as everyone here is saying, but defensively, then I do think DG/DM undersized is a problem for the starters. Rubio will fix a lot when he returns,… Read more »
Yep, regarding your last point. That’s what I was saying a week or two ago. Wade is my clear choice but not a long term solution. Hope he is put in with the starters soon, though I’m nervous about how long he holds up injury-wise.
For the timebeing, with the personnel available, I think all the minutes at 3 should go to Wade (when healthy again), Stevens and Diakite, with Wade clearly needing to start. And Caris should still get plenty of minutes at 1/2 bc they need him to facilitate staggering DG and Donovan’s minutes.
When JA is on the floor, the Cavs are the number one defensive team in the NBA. We’ve just seen where they stand defensively without him.
We were well within reach if winning the three game losses on the west coast trip. Closing games is a learning process that DG and Mitchell will figure out, they simply haven’t had enough time together yet, and DG has been injured and sick.
Wades minutes are winning basketball minutes. Without him there’s been an obvious hole in bench productivity.
These are all things that are easily remedied
Only got to watch the first half, but I thought Mobley was starting to look much more like himself last night. Had his touch on his shot back, and seemed more active defensively to me.
Now if we could just get these guys all on the court together for a minute…
Bucks and Warriors are champions: we could learn from them how to start and close games. That’ll come.
Super encouraged by Mobley
Without their All-Star center on the floor, the Cavaliers were outrebounded 52-34 and outscored 21-6 in second-chance points.
Bucks Bench: 45
Cavs: 20 and 7 are from Diakite/Mobley in the last 5 min of garbage time.. don’t really count that..
So almost outscored 30 points in the regular part of the game from our bench..
Fast break points: 15-6 in favor of Bucks
Positives:
22 ast on 26 FG
8 turnovers only and forced 14
7 blocks and 7 steals (didnt feel so) – Lamar had 4 blocks.
14-17/ 82% on free throws
JB’s opening the door for lineup changes in this presser.
Thank freakin god.
Broken record: LeVert needs to go to the bench and Okoro to the G league
agree. agree.
Bring back Markenen!
https://twitter.com/statmuse/status/1593082417845522433?s=46&t=dwTxBAoMP4iKEweBklRnNw
Well that definitely wont win you ANY games….
What a crazy drop-off..
JA and Wade are two of the cavs best defenders which means a lot. But the team seemingly started to slip defensively before either went out on that west coast trip. Dunno what is going on there. Wonder how much has to do with the small backcourt being exploited now that DG is back.
everything to do with it i think, those guys cant keep anyone in front of them
Part of it is regression to the mean of opponent 3P%. Opponents were shooting an artificially low percentage until more recent games. But this Cavs team also takes a big hit with JA out (or not healthy), and not having Wade hurts, too.
That’s a good point. Teams were missing a lot of open treys.
At what point do we admit that’s the big finish was a significant contributor to Our Success last year not just offensively but as a defensive Force?
I think that was a given coming in. The big lineup could be exploited by certain teams but it was pretty solid defensively. Our O of course tanked when DG/Rubio weren’t in though. DM was supposed to offset that on offense. Still might, but similarly to last year we have pretty big holes in various aspects of the game that we can’t seem to compensate for when certain guys go out. JA rebounding, lob threat, and rim protection. DG or DM playmaking and generation of offense when one or the other is not in. Wade shooting and defense. I think… Read more »
???? I don’t get this, Lauri’s contribution last year was primarily killing bench lineups as a small ball 4/5, not as the starting 3. Also, with Wade starting Cavs are worlds better than Lauri was at the 3.
First of all…i dont think that is correct. I would need to see evidence. Lauri was a starting 3 who basically protected the rim like a 5 and shot like a 2. If im wrong im happy to eat crow but I dont recall him being a sieve on d or a problem on offense.
I was crying for wade mins allllll year last year and have continued to do so this year. I dont think the two are mutually exclusive.
I never said Lauri was bad at the 3, I said Wade was better and he has been, consistently… at least +2 per 100 over Lauri with the starters… and off the charts better with any other combo than Lauri.
Sometimes stats over time dont capture stats that are meaningful. He didnt have to be given the knickname “the big Finnish” cuz he earned it
Only success that matters is team success, and the team over the past two years have had more success with Wade at the 3 than Lauri… and interestingly, Wade’s numbers are pretty damn stable… +9 to +10 with the starters.
Youre not wrong. I think I have been more vocal about wade than I was for deli. But you might be wrong when it comes to clutch mins.
not enough minutes played, but in “high leverage” minutes according PBPstats, the Wade/Mobley/Allen trio is a +44.
Lauri/Mobley/Allen in “high leverage” minutes last year +42.
Just reread your comment. There is nothing small ball about Lauri. He is as tall as most centers…as agile as most 4s…and as good from 3 as most 2s and 3s. I know what you mean about lineups…but you dont actually play small ball with him at the 4 or 5. He had and has a legit post game. Wade is a super defender…but post game is not in his repertoire
1.6% career block rate as a 7 footer is the definition of small ball, and small ball is a reference to what he was doing on offense (launching threes, not posting up)
This is weird cuz I am only playing devils advocate cuz I want wade to start at the 3. Have since he showed up. My devils advocate side asks Can you give me shots altered stats? Can you give me post points avoided stats? I dont doubt that wade is valuable. In fact i was basically calling for him to start over everyone at the 3 this year and if that didnt happen the Cavs were a lost cause. Lauri is gone. Im not even sure how we got here. I am mainly arguing for wade at this point over… Read more »
what are you talking about? everybody here liked the BF. who you trying to argue with?
Mostly arguing with the phrase “worlds better” with wade vs Lauri. Its just wrong. But then it escalated
I’m sorry worlds better is an exaggeration, 20-25% better is statistically accurate… my apologies. Wade is slightly better. Hope that clears it up.
Part of the problem is caris is a good catch and shoot shooter and the Cavs do nothing to free up weak side shooters.
Ugh. They have caris, Love, Mitchell, DG, Wade, Cedi, and Windler (who I know no one here believes in but has proven to be a reliable catch and shoot guy for most of his basketball career) and a smattering of Stevens, Mobley, and Neto who are all decent to great spot up options. And yet the warriors find ways to free up Lamb for 10 3s a game
At least I have an episode of Andor to watch.
Bucks have good veteran players, and when Lopez is 7/8 from 3 it is big trouble.
Interior shot blocking really gave Cavs fits tonight. Mitchell pretty much stayed out on the perimeter and never got any rhythm.
I would have thought LeVert could have contributed tonight.
LeVert can’t start when Wade comes back.
I would agree. Levert was invisible tonight, and he has been for a few games now…
thirded, he needs the ball in his hands, and it’s been taken away since DG came back.
also our bench sucks ass at scoring.
They dont though. They carried us through most of the wind streak. Something has changed other than personnel
that’s because they had Caris running point for them during the winning streak, the only thing thats changed is personnel LMFAO and a little bit of JB’s goofy ass rotations.
Hmm…didnt remember the caris ball handling but youre right. That doesnt mean offense but it does mean DG wasnt the point of attack defense. Caris is light years better on d. Rotations aside (which have sucked) JB needs to design better options when caris and one of the dominant guards are on the floor
no one is setting them up, no weak side action, no drive and kick. just… drive and shoot
Send Okoro to the G-League, trade LeVert for a wing that can shoot and not dribble the air out of the ball, order “Basketball for Dummies” as an early Xmas present for JB, and play more Ganley ads.
FEWER Ganley ads, but other than that a +1 here.
LeVert had 2 points tonight. 🤦♂️
At what point is the rebounding weirdness on the coach versus the players? Genuine question cuz I have played basketball my whole life and I don’t understand how a team with as much height as our team has doesn’t rebound. Are our players that bad instinctually or is the design of the defense and offense and fast break actually terrible? I don’t know how to quantify our lack of rebounding prowess with Kevin Love on the team
Mobley has never really been a good rebounder for his size. Okoro may be the worst rebounder in the league. We are undersized in the backcourt despite DM being a pretty decent rebounder for his height. JA our best rebounder in the starting lineup is out as is Wade who isn’t a great rebounder but at least has size. And the bucks are huge. Not a good combination as far as boards.
I mean emotionally i agree. But Kevin Love is still in elite rebounder…stevens is solid…mobley is bad for his height but not as bad as could be…and Lopez seems to suck when he usually is a good rebounder. This isn’t normal based on personnel. We should be effective. But we are bottom of the league. Something is off
did you know JA is out, and YA is on the other team?
This team has problems.
man, Okoro refuses to take the wide open J passes to Diakite completely blanketed in the corner.
4 on 5 with him.
Diakite is so smooth, hard to believe he can’t find some minutes.
Give him Okoro’s minutes.
agree
From what I have seen of him, he belongs in the rotation. He should be starting while Wade is out. He is our best bet to make a big jump.
Caris has some value when DM or DG is out.
DIAKITE STEP BACK?!
Diakite!!!
Not having JA is always going to hurt, not having JA against two of the biggest teams in the NBA really hurts
He’s got a sick ankle according to Fedor. Get that ankle some chicken soup!
Gah. Okoro just throws it up there like a playground game. Have some pride!
Stevens definitely earned some rotation minutes.
A loss is a loss I guess but goodness this should have been a competitive game
for 2 quarters only..
Hopefully Wade is back soon as well. Send Okoro to the G league, and give Stevens his minutes.
Maybe we can beat Charlotte at home on Friday?
Definitely been a rough stretch. First game that hasn’t been close.
JB white flag
Why are u doubling Portis in the post.
Worst part about watching this game is how we are completely not outmanned but continue to make the mistake of thinking we need to go hero ball. The Bucks are not that good on D unless we stop all movement
JB waiving the white flag.
If nothing else, they made Giannis work tonight…
JB raising the flag.
Stevens hot fouled by Portis.
Way too lax on that FB.
damn Stevens 5 points left on the table there.
Stevens has played admirably on Giannis
Jesus that was amazing defense by Stevens.
Carter walked then hit Nwora in the corner on a fantastic relocate three.
Mitchell with some terrible defense… left his man and gave up a 3.
I’m glad they’re not calling fouls on these tie ups