Playoff Live Thread (Game 4): Cavs vs Celtics
2024-05-13Whelp. We’ve officially enterest the surreal phase of this playoff series. Donovan Mitchell and Jarrett Allen are out tonight and LeBron James is in (the building). It feels a lot like LeBron attending Z’s jersey retirement ceremony in 2014 with the king in the Rocket Mortgage Fieldhouse, and I’ve been contending for a while that there’s a combo forward sized hole in the Cavs’ roster for a reason.
The whole LeCircus definitely puts a strange spin on this game, and without CPJ or TY Jerome to fill in for DM, it will be up to Caris and Sam Merrill to absorb the minutes. Meanwhile, I hope Evan Mobley has spent the last 48 hours studying how to read double teams and pass out of the post when he gets collapsed in, which was a major reason Boston shut him down in game 3. I also hope the Cavs have been practicing open threes cause they sure missed a bunch, Saturday. With the Cavs auditioning for the king, I expect a weird vibe to lead to Boston playing with their food and the Cavs catching them in a Cavalanche (hopefully). Go Cavs.
Come on, guys. It’s painfully obvious. DG/DM and EM/JA are redundancies. This team is fundamentally flawed in its construction. In the land of unicorns and rainbows where players don’t care about being starters as long as their team wins, yes, we could have a DM/EM first line and a DG/JA second line and shred the hell out of opponents, but we all know that’s not the reality of the NBA. Trade DG for big wings as a vote of confidence in point-Mitchell. Maybe keep trying to make EM/JA work but stagger them more? If it doesn’t work, trade Mitchell and… Read more »
there is no big wing on the market — unless we are thinking PG13, which, ain’t no fuckin way — that makes a difference in the playoffs (Brandon Ingram or Mikal Bridges aren’t outplaying the Js, we already have tough defenders, big and small, to throw on wings in Okoro, Wade, Allen and Mobley), and healthy we are already a good enough regular season team to be a top 2-3 seed, and a good enough playoff team to have a puncher’s change at Boston next year.
ain’t buying it.
for DG/DM, you have a good argument.
for EM/JA you are dead wrong. I wish we had Hardrock to go along with them.
your team is who you have, you don’t get to pick an ideal all star team. we currently have three really good players and there is no reason to give one of them away.
garland was chosen #5 because of his outside skills.. period.. 2 undersized guards chosen back-to-back.. best player available ? kolby thought so.. if he needs touches to establish his rhythm, then you either INSTRUCT mitchell to give him the touches he needs (and ditch the mano stuff) OR, as i suggested 2 years ago after mitchell was added, play them mostly separately (at least 20 min per game), with the remainder being the 2-guard thing.. this is obviously beyond the intelligence of the FO and coaches.. if garland can, more often than not, be the mid-20s ALL-STAR stud, then it… Read more »
agree they don’t work well together. Mr Stubborn JB seems to be playing them together until they get good at it. the problem is, they arn’t making any progress in that direction.
I don’t like picking small guards two years in a row either. maybe they realized that Sexton wasn’t a keeper.
I really wish they would have gotten the ball to Mobley towards the end of the game more, thought he had found a good rhythm.
That Strus 3 two feet behind the line was bad, have to get a better shot then that.
I root for Okoro, but I think he’s in for a very long summer waiting for offers in RFA.
Agreed on Okoro. This game was begging him to be his best. Defense was okay. Shots didn’t fall. He kind of disappeared.
DG played great no doubt. But if this game wasnt a referendum on DM and DG duplicating skillsets then i dont know what more you need to see. DM>DG but one of them has to go unless they somehow win 3 in a row here each averaging 30
It’s workable: if Mitchell takes the shots Vert has this game is a Cavs win
agree it is workable, but it hasen’t worked yet
They both had the best years of their career last year.
(imo DG was as good last year as in his Allstar year-so maybe it’s 1A and 1B).
Worth making the effort
And yet, they had a better record with DG sidelined last year than when he was playing, same as this year. I agree with Buck (up thread), the only recourse is to stagger them as much as possible: like if you’re playing them both 30 minutes a night, they each get 18 solo and just the remaining 12 together. We have yet to see evidence after 2 years that the team can play it’s best with both on the floor together a lot.
There’s a lot of strength of schedule and other nuance influencing that, both this year and last. We know we can win a bunch of regular season games and get to a top-2 seed with any construction. If we are looking to win the East, having DGs shot creation and playmaking is superior to a non-playmaking wing when things get tight. We’ve seen what Ingram, Bridges, etc can do as primary ball handlers in the post season and it didn’t approach what DG did last night, although in efficient and with 9-41 from 3 taking away a pile of potential… Read more »
I certainly agree players who create offense for themselves “and” others are both highly valuable and rare in the league. And I don’t think roster redundancy in and of itself is categorically “bad.” For example, one benefit of having DM and DG is it’s a lot easier to survive the stretches when one is hurt, and not have the team go into a tailspin—like late in the 21-22 season when Rubio and DG got hurt, or (for a pre-LeBron comparison), like when a single injury to Mark Price turned the 90-91 Cavs from contender to lottery team. But . .… Read more »
To have a shot at the trophy, you need two or three superstars and several star level players to surround them with, all within the salary cap. No easy task for any GM. DG is no doubt valuable. But it seems doubtful that he will advance from the “borderline star” level to anywhere near superstar level. His ceiling is probably a marginal starter on a top level team, or a top end sixth man. The bad news is that DG is way overpaid. He is at the second level, but paid enough for two players at his level. This is… Read more »
Free throw attempts tonight:
9 — Jayson Tatum
9 — Jaylen Brown
7 — Cleveland Cavaliers (a few FT on Boston techs)
If we stopped fouling it would have helped….
Some Other stats:
Cavs had 16 more FGA but shot 43.6% VS Boston 48.7%
Cavs had +3 more made 3 pointers but shot 31.3% overall from 3 (15/48)
Cavs had 26 assists on 41 FG (63%) (Boston had 15)
Boston Outrebounded us 48-32 / +16 on the glass
Boston +16 on FT Line (Made) – +17 in attempts
The last two stats need an Allen wrench…
Hilarious moment in the press conference. Joe being asked about messages he was giving his team down the stretch. “Just pass to the guys in the green jerseys”. Journalist: “uhhhh, what?” Joe: “no, I’m being dead serious. Just pass the ball”.
I thought he was terrible tonight.
Yeah he did the Cavs some favours no doubt.
so, garland averaging 14.3 ppg in first 3 games vs celtics.. tonight as big dog he goes for 30 in a nice losing effort.. is he pouting ? out of rhythm when spida doing the mano stuff ? disinterested when not center stage ? vs orlando, he went for 14(w), 15(w), 5(L), 14(L), 23(w), 21(L), 12(w).. so over his average 2/7 games vs orlando and 3/4 vs boston.. $35 mill per year.. a maxy boy..
He has a hard time getting rhythm without all the touches.
then trade him for someone who can perform when it counts..
Tonight counted. And he performed.
a little late.. the problem is either garland or koby or JB.. but.. there is a problem.. maxy boys need to perform at a high level on a regular basis.., especially when it counts..
We are small and have a limited amount of playmakers. Virtually no post-up play from anyone. Mostly streaky 3pt shooters. And aside from Wade, no playable bigs.
And we were missing our two best players.
Big wings.
he has bettered his season average in 3/11 playoff games
Most players average less in the post-srason.
Season.
I cannot believe I am defending Garland.
Yep.
I have been very critical of Garland. But he was good tonight. Excellent the last 3 quarters.
A little better at feeding Mobes would help.
Yeah it’s gonna take these old bitches a while to turn around on Garland: he had the toughest adjustment and health issues. But he’s a gamer
And it’s his third series and 16th playoff game.
It’s been mentioned…
Well you can’t trade in may, so I’m just gonna watch the games.
^^^ this
Yep. He is not very good when he does not have the ball. He is better shooting off the dribble than spotting up (at least to my eye). And the fewer touches messes with his rhythm.
In fairness, he has the biggest adjustment in playing with DM.
It’s a game plan issue. He needs touches in first halves both to get his rhythm and to keep DM fresh to close. Ideally you get the bigs going first then DG then DM closes
Tonight was not a referendum on DG. The money issue is that he is not even close to being a two-way player, and he is not even close to being a transcendent offensive talent–the latter was what the Cavs thought they were securing. But tonight, he played with heart and did enough to keep them in the game. A ton of open threes clanked, and the Cavs again got outrebounded by a healthy margin.
The idea that every max player is transcendent needs to die. A max extension is the going rate for young all stars, which he was. He (rightly) wasn’t signing an RJ Barrett deal.
Jrue for instance, has made a shit ton as a fringe Allstar. As has Mike Conley.
If Garland can run the offense like this and both he and Mitchell can commit to ten minutes a game of good off ball work, we are good.
(we were the first franchise to make a sixth man one of the highest paid players in the league and it worked out fine)
I like your line of thinking, but has Garland been a “fringe allstar” this year? Maybe DG is growing up and will be that guy, but he’s not running the offense like Conley or doing it all like Holiday. I am cheering for him.
No, this was a down year for him. So much went wrong
Honestly proud of the way they played tonight, but Jru Holiday is just so fucking good on both sides of the ball. Just a menace on D and can absolutely get hot offensively. Thought he was Boston’s best player by a mile. That overturn on Garland when he was body checked into the stantion was some bullshit. The Cavs couldn’t overcome the refs, Okoro being shit, and LeVert not being able to shoot.
He’s fucking great. And he only has to do it in spurts so the seams don’t show as they sometimes did in MIL.
Plays the game the right way, hard nosed. Doesn’t complain about every single call like a lot of star players too. Always been a fan of his across his stops around the league.
I think it also needs addressing the Mobley is not right. Can’t dunk, right now, and hasn’t been the same all year since coming back from the knee.
He’s fine
He can dunk–he just chooses to double-clutch way too often.
Did we talk about Bron attending?
DG, DM, LBJ, EM, JA.
Cap/schnap.
Very hard to see any Eastern team winning the championship right now. Whoever limps in is going to get ripped.
Somehow the team who comes out of the west will get injured and hand the Celtics a championship
If Joker & Murray can go……
Boston with Zinger or Denver.
Minny & Dallas mext.
Then OKC.
Then the rest of the East.
Disappointed we could not pull it off. But it was a very good effort.
Very encouraged by the way DG & Mobley played late. Gotta play a little smarter. More aggressive earlier.
1 better decision. 1 more defense rebound. 1 more made 3. 1 less blown call (tummy, DG overturned, Brown not a flagrant). 1 more healthy guy.
I said it yesterday, Cleveland are right there. Minor improvements put Cleveland into the conference final. If they manage to push this series to even 6 games, given the setbacks, they can hold their heads high I think.
I did not believe you yesterday.
I do now.
lol the commentators are like you have to give JB credit.
And you do, BUT
Kids played hard. It’s just tough missing your 2 best players, though.
Needed a big night from an unexpected source and didn’t quite get it.
Looked like Strus or Merrill…that didn’t last long.
Gutty performance.
Cavs 2nd Half:
11/15 in the restricted Area: 73%
1/3 in the rest of the paint: 33%
4/23 from 3= 17%
2/3 2 pointers = 66%
Garland:
4/7 in the paint
2/2 midrange
2/7 from 3
Mobley:
6/6 in the restricted area
0/1 the rest of the paint
Bummer.
Yeah. Gotta foul brown. Dumb.
In the real world this series would turn extremely choppy and the cavs would level a few celtics over the next minute. In JB’s world we accept that cleveland doesnt matter and are pawns in the NBA’s desire for Boston to get past us. I hate these celtics. There is no more ripe team for a 3-1 comeback but its gonna take mitchell and allen…and garland has to realize he can play just like this with fewer touches
Well I guess you were technically right we broke 100. I think I was philosophically correct though when I called it with 8 minutes left we weren’t breaking 100
Lol so you were wrong but right in spirit? All you did was call our loss. That was easy enough before the game. We were in this one because JB knows how to coach with one small guard. We lost because JB doesnt know that you can talk to the refs during timeouts apparently
100 points without Spida…
A stop, a three a split and a triple
😥
Strus made it to the final 2 minutes before fouling out. Thiught it would be a lot earlier.
I legit thought he was getting tossed
Strus with a hero ball shot when Mobley had white on him again.
No margin for error at all
Damn. Almost.
Is there a chance Mitchell or JA play in Game 5?
Brown might be an even more annoying douche than Tatum, if that’s even possible.
Both such little bitches.
Too open.
Give me Dean Wade and get TT into the game.
That was a bad shot.
Mobley has White pinned.
Anthony is right. More bad O.
Bye bye Strus
We might as well go full golden terd and free throw hunt. That leg extension by brown waa horrendous. The f@cking interior d by the celtics is slap til you cant…its like playing a game with different rules for each team.
If we win this challenge and score off the ensuing inbound, I will eat my phone
These refs should have a Flagrant 2 on DG here. Somehow…
Lol he jumpkicked him; that should be an offensive foul on the overturn
Brown with the scissor kick shot.
The refs have cost us at least 5 points.
Challenge that dumb shit. Brown kicks his legs out.
The refs have tried so hard to fuck this team so bad lol.
OMG. This is the worst officiated game I’ve ever seen.
That is a high bar.
But these guys are making me long for Tony Brothers.
Brown kicked out like A mofo
Tatum is the one with a clean look?.. two offensive rebounds with your season on the line… SMDH..
Ok we are actually getting homered on our own floor. That’s so egregious.
Tatum push off not called.
DG misses Mobley.
We still cannot get a board.
My god these commentators are ass.
Garland secure a rebound challenge: Impossible
He had 7 in game 2. Wat?
What?!?! That’s an obvious foul with the body. Gross
OMG. Fuck these refs.
Gotta be kidding me.
They overturned this? OMG.
Truly impressed by our fight. Never say die!!!
Total bullshit call
DG playing really well right now.
That is absolutely a foul on Horford. Way more contact than Strus on Brown.
Yes but did he tap garland lightly on the tummy?
Joe Mazzulla’s second boner time out this quarter. He’s not gonna win this challenge and he called timeout when the Celtics had them on the ropes earlier.
Agreed.
I was with Anthony in the high 5, but not the TO.
On the high 5.
Love it when horford hammers a guy with his body and whines. I cant stand that guy.
Delly lives rent-free in his head to this day.
Good call. He’s not gonna win this challenge.
Gotta think this stands as called.
Horford keeping us in it
Boston went very flat-footed with 8 min to go. No killer instinct.
at 99-91 celtics.. with 5 min left.. nice showing.. garland shows up.. considering the lack of quality on the floor.. even a close loss is a moral victory.. a win would be nice, although that would have required a trip to lourdes..
Dean Wade has been so huge.
Free Throws:
Boston 17/20
Cavs: 4/6
Open the wade pool
Greg Anthony is horrible.
Lol he tapped him on the tummy softly and its a foul
That call was absolute shit
Boston aint winning shit this year. They are likely to play the pacers and ill be surprised if they beat them in anything less than 7…but they arent beating anybody from the west.
Agreed. They are soft AF.
Getting Zinger back will make a big difference.
He was averaging 12 pts a game. Horford is averaging less but stretches the floor well. On D they will improve but they are frauds
Wade great D. And buries the three!!
LeVert on one leg
Our guys miss too many open 3’s. Not gonna break 100 again
Uh…why wouldn’t we? There’s 5 mins left. Question is can we get caught up before they get to 110
Credit Celtics Jrue and Pritchard for making tough 3s look easy.