Ramon Sessions to Lakers
2012-03-15
Ramon Sessions is headed to the Lakers. Details are shady right now (I’ll fill in the details as they become available), but Windhorst says the Cavs are getting a “future draft pick.”
UPDATE: Okay, here are the details: Sessions & Eyenga to the Lakers for Luke Walton and their 2012 first rounder (top 14 protected). The Lakers also have the right to swap their 2013 first-rounder with the Cavs’ Heat selection. I liked this trade a lot better when it didn’t involve the words “Luke Walton.”
UPDATE #2: Jason Kapono has also been included in the Sessions deal.
UPDATE #3: The Plain Dealer is reporting the Cavs are done for the day.
UPDATE #4: Windhorst has corrected himself. The Cavs will have the ability to switch picks with the Lakers in the 2013 draft. So that Miami pick that’s probably going to be in the late 20s? They can swap it with the Lakers, who will probably be picking closer to early 20s/high teens.
Is there any protection on next year’s “swap”? Most likely, the swap only moves us up about 5 spots, but what if something happens like a Kobe injury, can we swap into the lottery then?!
Walton’s contract is one year after this season
@Brian
Most fans on this blog agree with you. Mallory main problem with the trade is that Cavs didn’t get enough for taking Walton (at least, I think that’s it). He has a point. However, Walton’s contract is for the most part a non-factor. It’s one year. The Cavs will still be well under the cap.
Maybe the Cavs could have done better. But they didn’t do badly, despite what John Hollinger would tell you.
To be less confusing, I think houston got better value on their trade. they gave up a lot less, but they also recieved a little less. But the Cavs got more total in theirs.
I’d rather have the lakers’ own lottery protected pick and move up 5-10 spots next year then roll the dice that the mavericks improve from being tied for the 17th-18th pick, but not so much so as to make their pick the same or worse value than the lakers.
Love the community on here right now, even if a lot of it is argumentation. Go Cleveland!
No time right to scroll through the first 164 (!!!) posts, so sorry if this is repetitive, but: (1) I don’t think there’s any chance Sessions would have exercised his player option. Why would he? He’d have tested the market in hopes of getting a multi-year guarantee and a starting job; (2) To not only get the Laker’s 1st rounder this year, but the right to swap and thus move up in next year’s 1st round, is pretty good value for Sessions (who is a “pretty good” player yes, but let’s not overrate him); (3) based on current standings, the… Read more »
that pick is top 20 protected Mallory, which means houston wouldn’t get a pick this year if the season ended today. And here I thought you were trying to speed up the rebuild! Oh ya, also trading the 30th pick in the draft next year for the 20th-25th (where the lakers will probably end up next year) wasn’t too bad either. I agree houston still got a better deal cause sessions it much better than Hill, but how does that effect whether the cavs should have let sessions walk for nothing or gotten the best deal they could for him?… Read more »
1. Sessions probably wouldn’t have stayed for a reasonable price as a back-up.
2. The more picks we have, the better odds we have to draft a decent player.
3. Hooray
Let me repeat:
…I think we are all seriously undervaluing the 2013 pick switch option as Lakers are dangerously close to starting a rebuild next year if they fail early in this year’s playoffs which could mean a 2013 lottery pick for us.
And add (per Matt’s clarification):
Plus, the Dallas pick is protected so if they keep sucking then it would have been no dice for us in 2012 draft.
Not as straightforward as you are trying to make it.
Jim, Matt, Tony, etc.
If these draft picks were so valuable, then why did the Lakers trade a better one (Dallas) for Houston to take Fisher off their hands (and a minor rotation guy in Hill)
Do you guys think Sessions is worth less than Hill? Because that’s what this trade would imply.
Jim, and Dallas’s is top 20 protected, which if the season ended today, means no pick in this years draft.
We gave up on someone? you have to qualify it with the facts mallory, we gave up 25 games of a decent player in an uncompetitive year (we are 16-25, Making the playoff would be an indictment on the east, not a validation of our ability) for a 30-40% shot at a decent player for 5-10 years. Those are the numbers and odds. If sessions wanted to come back I got new for you, he still can. We actually do have an idea how it will effect the future. Its call odds, and history repeats itself. Now what you do… Read more »
What would you have wanted for Sessions to like the trade? Cause I am almost certain it wasn’t available. There was no significantly better pick to be had (Dallas’ will only be a few spots ahead). No package of a pick with a solid rotation/bench player. No solid rotation/bench player that has an attractive contract and would help us in our rebuild. Walton/Kapono/Eyenga are all inconsequential since cap room is not an issue. And keeping in mind that Sessions would have left do you propose that we should have just kept him for his great second half value to our… Read more »
I agree Tony, I think Mallory is just kept around as bait. I need to stop falling for it.
Jim – I have stood by the trade. Right now, I dislike it. If we’re basing this on numbers and odds, we gave up a guy who we knew had talent for someone whose talent level we don’t know. That, to me, is bad. Now, if we get lucky and beat the odds, then I’ll change my opinion, but, like I said, right now I see this as being a not-so-good trade. I’m not sure why everything has to be cut and dry. If we’re basing this on cut and dry facts, the fact is, right now, we got a… Read more »
Show me how having 8 guys younger than 23 is a terrible Idea. The only team I can think of that relied on that many young guns is OKC, and its worked out ok for them. Where are your counterexamples? And do any of them have a stud on Kyries level, to go along with another top 4 pick rookie, a solid youngin like Gee, and two more 1st round picks and cap space to spare? (to say nothing of veragjoa) I’ll wait. Oh ya, and the fact that Irving, Thompson, our draft picks, and maybe harris will be the… Read more »
At this point I have stopped reading any comments or articles written by Mallory…so terrible, please cavstheblog.com big wigs SHUT MALLORY DOWN
Mallory, the whole point is that you should be able to grade this trade now which is what everyone but you is doing. To cop out and say you reserve judgement until we know who we drafted is something any idiot could do. Too bad Chris Grant doesn’t have the luxury of taking a time machine into the future and seeing who he would draft and how they would develop before making this trade. Either stand by the trade or don’t…
but they did suck and it wasn’t veteran leadership that lead them out of it. It was KD. We have Kyrie. Oh, and andy to boot, someone you somehow seem to constantly be forgetting.
Forgot about Andy – he’s the one truly great asset (beyond Kyrie) that we have. But still, having 8 guys on your roster who are 23 or younger is never a good idea.
Obviously a bunch of 22 year olds will have a hard time winning a playoff series. Thats what Free Agents and andy are for. But stockpiling a bunch of talented 22 years olds before you spend big in Free Agency means those young players have a better chance of having more talent and meshing with the FAs you get. As far as a losing culture, its not like we are stuck in the mud, we have obvious talent, obvious incoming assets, Cap flexibility to spare, and Andy (ANDY!) There is nothing moribund about our franchise right now to put our… Read more »
Matt, at no point did OKC have a roster of 1 WAY past his prime star (antawn) 1 26 yr old has been (boobie) and a bunch of young guys. They always had a mix of vet presence, youth, and elder statesmen.
Obviously a bunch of <22 year olds will have a hard time winning a playoff series. Thats what Free Agents and andy are for. But stockpiling a bunch of talented <22 years olds before you spend big in Free Agency means those young players have a better chance of having more talent and meshing with the FAs. As far as losing culture, its not like we are stuck in the mud, we have obvious talent, Obvious incoming assets, Cap flexibility to spare, and Andy (ANDY!) There is nothing moribund about our franchise right now to put our players in a… Read more »
My final word on this trade – I totally understand why some are very happy about this – the chance to grab any decent player in the draft is an exciting proposition – we might find a great player there. I still stand by my dislike of this trade for a few reasons – I think we could’ve gotten more, especially given the amount of salary we took on, and, if the pick doesn’t pan out, we received nothing in return for someone who probably could’ve have yielded us some tangible asset (i.e. a player) in return. I also don’t… Read more »
“but come on already, at some point we have to start competing.”
Two years is just an eternity huh. And again, how does letting sessions walk help us compete next year?
“Teams don’t just magically draft well, spend time as a bad team, then suddenly get great (well, maybe Minnesota did, but that’s a very special case revolving around a very special PG).”
OKC as well. And they are pretty much the only small market teams currently competing. Weird huh?
Espn earlier was saying the Lakers had the choice, and is now saying Cleveland does, So it seems like that would be a ‘correction’
“but come on already, at some point we have to start competing.” Two years is just an eternity huh. And again, how does letting sessions walk help us compete next year? “Teams don’t just magically draft well, spend time as a bad team, then suddenly get great (well, maybe Minnesota did, but that’s a very special case revolving around a very special PG).” OKC as well. And they are pretty much the only small market teams currently competing. Weird huh? Obviously a bunch of <22 year olds will have a hard time winning a playoff series. Thats what Free Agents… Read more »
I’ve seen both versions reported as to whom can swap whos pick. Guess we’ll have to wait for the ‘final’ wording to come out. ESPN, Yahoo! and other sources are all saying different things. Only thing clear is we get a top 14 protected pick this year from the Lakers, but if they don’t make the playoffs (unlikely), I’m not sure what happens. The swaping of next years picks is up in th air.
Our ability to swap picks is nice – Could potentially be a good little kicker if the Lakers drop off a lot next year.
Also, I think the reason they keep Varejao around is to prevent that losing culture to form. His influence and Scotts could mold a good young team.
Everyone says “OKC model”… Well, in 2008, Seattle/OKC turned an All-Star talent that they thought they would lose into, basically, pick #24 in ’08 and #26 in ’10. Sessions is OK, but he’s a lot less of a talent than Rashard Lewis was at the time. With the picks, OKC got Serge Ibaka and Quincy Poindexter. A hit and a miss. I’ll take it.
No, Mallory, we can switch with the Lakers. Which could be the difference between the 20th and 30th pick in 2013. This is good. That is all.
I realize I didn’t do a very good job of explaining what I meant – Essentially, to be a pro level team, you want some range in ages and player types on your roster. You don’t want a bunch of young guys, and you don’t want a bunch of old guys – you want a wide enough range that different levels of experience can work off each other. There is a tendency to underrate how meaningful it is to have some experience on your roster. Obviously bottoming out is good, but if you bottom out too much, you’re in trouble.… Read more »
Windhorst now reporting that we have the right to swap picks, not the Lakers.
This trade does become a little better now that we can swap the Miami pick for the Lakers pick in 2013!
Ron – the Lakers can switch with the Cavs, not vise versa. Not sure why we let this come into play (what happens if, for example, Lebron gets injured?). It’ll likely never be used, but wouldn’t it be a pain in the butt if it was? It just seemed like Chris Grant saying “yes, yes, whatever gets us a PICK!” when there was still a full hour left. Oh well, rookie (well, sophomore) mistake. Matt – Obviously we’re young, but come on already, at some point we have to start competing. Teams don’t just magically draft well, spend time as… Read more »
But you are right about one thing mallory, We’ll sign harris and look bad the rest of the year. But I’m ok with looking bad for one year (I don’t write a blog for the cavs either, to be fair). You realize we are 3 wins above the 4th pick in the draft right now? And that even with Luke Walton we will be $20 million under the cap next season? The futures bright, and patience and being willing to grind out the tough times is the key to all success. Bring on the draft! and Sacramento, make a run!… Read more »
So the Cavs have the right to swap position with Miami and Lakers pick next year. Not visa-versa. This seems like a positive development! Just need to root for Lakers to fail miserably in 2013. Sounds fun to me.
Mallory, freaking out about being 2 deep next year is besides the point. We were going to be 2 deep anyways. We weren’t going to be competing with Miami and the Bulls and OKC regardless. We were going to be developing young talented players first and foremost, and now we’ll have one more young promising player to develop. If you think we absolutely need another veteran presence outside of andy and boobie, we’re still $20mil under the cap next year even if we keep boobie. I can see where you maybe expected more for sessions, but the fact we got… Read more »
Not everything should be taken at face value. Something that hasn’t been mentioned is the fact that Sessions has a PLAYER OPTION for next season. So if he REALLY wanted to stay in Cleveland, and he was REALLY valuable to the Cavs, and he REALLY wanted to be a backup, and no one else REALLY wanted to pay him as much as we would have, we can sign him this summer after he opts out. Highly doubt that happens – Just putting to bed the theory that all of the “REALLY” assumptions the whiners think are true. Hopefully that logic… Read more »
I so badly want to see Blake Ahearn get an NBA shot. He’s the Crash Davis of the D-League.
I haven’t read every comment so I’m not sure if anyone mentioned this, but here goes. Walton’s back was bad coming into this year and there was some question if he would play at all. It seems like there is a decent chance Walton could retire or accept a buy out rather than go through the trouble of moving to a new city and potentially doing more damage to his back. I’m not saying it will happen, but it could.
Who’s out there now? Maybe Sign Arenas?
HAHA Kidding….
But seriously, is there anyone out there we can use as roster filler? ANYONE???? I guess Manny it is!
I also dont understand this thinking that trading Sessions means we’re tanking. The odds of us making the play-offs are extremely thin, and growing thinner by the day. Keeping him wasn’t going to change anything this season, and he would be gone next. Would much rather have an extra 1st round pick and another expiring contract to flip next year.
I didn’t say an above average starter. I said an above average player. But I Ryan’s right. It’s a pointless argument. The real question now, who’s going to fill the gaping hole at guard? Surely we can’t be counting on Irving, Parker, and Gibson to be the guard rotation going forward.
I’ve had about 5 comments eaten by the comment monster today, damn it. You guys hate me.
People trying to weigh the value of Sessions vs. the pick are sort of missing the point. While I think taking Walton back officially means the Lakers ‘won’ the trade*, getting a player like Kris Joseph, Fab Melo, Doron Lamb, or (I hope) John Jenkins is better than getting nothing when Sessions doesn’t pick up his player option. From a basketball perspective, I think this makes sense, although sometimes I feel bad for Dan Gilbert’s pocketbook. * I realize that that’s money we would probably have had to have spent on a free agent anyways, but Luke Walton is beyond… Read more »
To add to my comment – infusing a slightly longer contract along the lines of a Shawn Marrion or Okafore would have, at least to me, made a lot more sense from a team standpoint. They’re not long term pieces, but they still hold some value and can actually play. I never like the idea of tanking/becoming really, really bad. It sets a horrible precedent.
Anybody who thinks Sessions was going to come back next year to be a back-up point guard, when he is almost certainly going to get multiple offers to be a starting PG, is delirious. Of course he says he likes Cleveland; 99% of athletes claim they love wherever they play, even when they have every intention of leaving. Saying he likes it here means absolutely NOTHING in regards to him staying. It’s mind-boggling to me that anybody could think otherwise. Melo just said he liked D’Antoni, is that true too?
Regardless, I wouldn’t trade sessions straight up for a mid 20s pick, except for the fact that at the end of the season he’s leaving anyways and we aren’t contending this year. Its a no brainer, you trade nothing for something every time. Maybe we should have gotten something better, but I never heard of a realistic offer that was much better than this one.
Hoopsdog, the fact that he could start for only 10 teams even according to you means you are admitting he is not a top 40% player at his position, nor an average starter. And his defense is pretty pretty bad, even against back-ups. As is Irvings, which is why you might not have noticed. But Irving is 19, not 25.
Ryan – These guys aren’t fitting in. They’re roster/cap filler That’s it. Also it was Kevin who argued that cap filler is a good thing. Guys the thing that worries me more than anything is that we still have a team of young, unprofessional players. We’ve got youth – that’s not the problem – the problem is having a team of 23 year olds running around is never purely a good thing. Right now our team goes about 2 deep (Casspi and Boobie maybe?) and next year it’ll probably be about the same. That’s not exactly putting us closer to… Read more »
People trying to weigh the value of Sessions vs. the pick are sort of missing the point. While I think taking Walton back officially means the Lakers ‘won’ the trade, getting a player like Kris Joseph, Fab Melo, Doron Lamb, or (I hope) John Jenkins is better than getting nothing when Sessions doesn’t pick up his player option. From a basketball perspective, I think this makes sense, although sometimes I feel bad for Dan Gilbert’s pocketbook
@Mallory- You’re right about that. That’s why I savored the OKC win. I had a feeling it might be one of the last bright spots of the season.
Thanks chris for pointing that out. It makes me feel a lot better. I still would have thought doing this deal is better than letting session play the season out here, but its nice to know the Lakers didn’t hold out the better choice from us, since we gave a better player than Houston.
I’m not worried about Walton, he just gets us closer to our salary floor and gives us one more year to evaluate young guys before we splurge in Free Agency.
I just hope we sign Manny Harris and Blake Ahearn and wave Jason Kapono.
Wow what a pointless argument. It is done now. Whether it was good or bad depends on a lot of things and we didn’t hamstring ourselves with anything too bad. I think it was Colin a few weeks ago that wrote on this blog about the usefulness of acquiring contracts that expire over the next few years. I thing Grant has done well, and each move he has made has helped in se way so far so i’m happy with the big picture. Arguing over the minutia is less constructive than talking about how we could fit these guys in… Read more »
What the hell do you mean, we don;t have any expiring role players to trade next year? We just got 2 in this trade! Walton and Kapono’s expiring contracts ARE trade assets! And this thing you keep saying about taking on all this money is going to drive me insane. A) They are expiring contracts, that money will be off the books after next season, although i would imagine probably before that, even. B)We weren’t going to break the bank on Free Agents this off-season anyways, so those contracts don’t harm us AT ALL. i can’t ven comprehend where you’re… Read more »
One thing we can agree on – It’s not going to be fun to watch. Unless watching tall white men pretend to play basketball is your thing – then you might enjoy the rest of this season.
Guys – Krolik, Ryan and I are podcasting this weekend – keep on the lookout for some fun discussion on the deadline.
As most NBA reporters have said, 1st round picks became much more valuable now that the new CBA has stricter penalties for those in the luxury tax. Basically these picks have become cheaper replacements for role/bench players. Instead of paying Boobie Gibson 4.5 mil per year, they can get a similarly talented player for 3 million cheaper. I don’t expect many late 1st draft picks (if any) to be traded away for cash this year. The only team I see that has the smallest possibility of giving up their pick for cash would be the Magic, who might want to… Read more »
I couldn’t disagree with you more Matt. Sessions defense wasn’t all that bad. He could start at PG for at least 10 other teams. I think if you stacked up all the point guards in the NBA, he’d be in the top 40%.
@Mallory- I think this debate has gone as far as it can. I still say you have hyperbolic Cleveland sports fan syndrome and I’m convinced that there really wasn’t much else out there. Oh well.
The Dallas pick is top 20 protected, which they are currently under, so they would hold onto it for the next year. I’m not sure how low it goes before it becomes unprotected, but Chris Grant most likely doesn’t want another protected pick (especially one that we won’t get this year). I personally prefer the 24-27 pick in this year’s draft over waiting two or three years, when Kyrie has a year or two left on his deal, to get the pick.
Hoopsdogg, there is also a salary floor now, so spending that money on walton instead of just buying a pick saves the cavs from having to bring in another overpriced free agent before we know what we have with our young assets.
What the hell do you mean, we won’t have any expiring role players to trade next year? We just got two players who have expiring contracts next year in this trade!!! You don’t think we’ll be able to use Kapono and Walton’s expiring contracts next year in some sort of deal? EVERYbody wants expiring contracts, i guarantee those come in handy next year. Also….what the hell do you mean about taking on a lot of money? For the millionth time, the Cavs weren’t going to be breaking the bank signing free agents this off-season anyways, and those contracts both expire… Read more »
Hoopsdogg, there is also a salary floor now, so spending that money on walton instead of just buying the pick saves the cavs from having to bring in another overpriced free agent before we know what we have with our young assets.
This was a good trade. Not happy about taking on Walton, but not harm done since we don’t have cap issues (actually salary minimum issues were a concern if we didn’t take on some salary). Also, there is a possibility that he retires early or accepts a buy-out. This was a possibility a few months ago, but he still had $11+ mil coming to him and there was no reason to walk away from that. With one season at $6Mil left, and now he would ‘have’ to move to Cleveland, maybe he’ll reconsider his position on early retirement or accepting… Read more »
This was a good trade. Not happy about taking on Walton, but not harm done since we don’t have cap issues (actually salary minimum issues were a concern if we didn’t take on some salary). Also, there is a possibility that he retires early or accepts a buy-out. This was a possibility a few months ago, but he still had $11+ mil coming to him and there was no reason to walk away from that. With one season at $6Mil left, and now he would ‘have’ to move to Cleveland, maybe he’ll reconsider his position on early retirement or accepting… Read more »
“But, as long as we use the pick for something decent, I’ll be happy. If we don’t, however….”
If we don’t turn the pick into something useful, then we are in the exact some spot we would have been in when we watched session leave for nothing… Plus we would have had to overspend more in Free agency without knowing who our young core is, which is the real purpose Luke Walton would serves, protecting cap space for another year. Theres a Cap floor now you know.
“But, as long as we use the pick for something decent, I’ll be happy. If we don’t, however….” If we don’t turn the pick into something useful, then we are in the exact some spot we would have been in when we watched session leave for nothing… Plus we would have had to overspend more in Free agency without knowing who our young core is, which is the real purpose Luke Walton would serves, protecting cap space for another year. Theres a Cap floor now. Could we have signed someone better than walton to a 1 year $6mil contract? Of… Read more »