Finals Live Thread: Game Five, Cavs @ Warriors
2017-06-12Man do I hate the Dubs. I mean nothing gets me as lathered up as a good sports hate, but that team is something else. I spent the last live thread talking about what is so loathsome about Curry, Steph, and KD, and did a liberal amount of quoting from Cullen Galagher’s If You Like the Warriors, You Are a Bad Fan and You Should Feel Bad, Too. I especially appreciated his descriptions of Steph Curry, “whose entire persona can be summed up by the phrase ‘my dad bought this for me,'” mainly because they apply to Klay Thompson too. And we all know that KD is a frontrunning weiner.
But if there’s a proverbial “straw that stirs the drink” for Golden State, it’s Draymond Green. Draymond put on quite a show Friday. From smacking Shump in the head, to picking up two technicals, to getting one rescinded, to clocking Tristan Thompson in the head on a play that wasn’t even reviewed, Dray had quite a night. And remember, Kevin Love got dinged for the weakest flagrant foul call in NBA history after KD whined about getting hit in the noggin.
Draymond also had nothing smart to say after and referred to Clevelanders as “not very sharp,” and then doubling down on that statement again yesterday. It’s safe to say that Dray is a little full of himself. He’s also the key to Cleveland winning this game. Green wants this game desperately, and for all his bravado, you know there’s no way he wants to go back to the North Coast. And Draymond has a history of losing his composure in moments like these. The Cavs need to go at him every second, not necessarily when he’s on defense, but they need to be right next to him goading him at all times. They need pump fakes and prods and pokes in the ribs to try to get himself to do something dumb to get kicked out of the game. And if I’m Richard Jefferson I’m walking near him every time he gets a foul against him and he flails his arm in disgust. Hopefully Dray hits someone and gets himself ejected. I wish they still had Delly.
It’s baffling why Draymond gets the deference he does from NBA officials, because there’s perhaps no one in the NBA who abuses the refs the way ‘Dray does. He intimidates them. The one thing the Cavs need to do is not be intimidated, and they need to be insistent with the refs, without being whiny or lazy on defense. Game four was the first game in which the Warriors didn’t get away with their nonstop defensive fouling. Cleveland must maintain their aggressiveness and put the onus on the officials to make calls or risk this game getting violently out of hand. SI’s Kenny Ducey said it best.
What happened on Friday is best described as shady, just like Dikembe Mutombo prematurely congratulating the 76ers on the first overall pick in the 2016 NBA draft, or the Knicks winning the ’85 lottery. Going back and retroactively removing a foul from Green, keeping him in the game, will live in infamy and fuel even more league conspiracy theories. If anything, it’s making those who truly believe the league influences the outcome of its games and seasons look more rational. Referees need to regain control, and practice transparency and consistency in their calls.
Stopping Green is key because the difference between Green and everyone else at the center spot is stark. Green’s foul trouble has limited Kerr’s ability to play Golden State’s vaunted “Death Lineup.” According to clutchpoints.com, that lineup is killing the Cavs.
The feared lineup has only seen the court for 17 of the total 192 minutes of playing time through four games, netting a 141.7 offensive rating, 69.4 defensive rating.
Meanwhile, Zaza (he who faced no punishment for jabbing at Iman Shumpert’s jewels) was a dumpster fire in game Four, and someone the Cavs will try to consistently exploit in game five. Expect him to play less.
Aside from getting Green to destruct, the key will be maintaining pressure on the Warriors. The longer they aren’t way out in front, the more they’re going to start getting nervous. The question? Will the Dubs’ sense of entitlement, preening, and lack of discipline be their unraveling? God, I hope so.
I would take the same defensive game plan the Cavs had in game one: do not let the shooters get going, even if it means giving up the occasional scrub layup. What needs to change though, is that the Cavs can’t lose KD in transition and just let him go coast to coast (or anyone for that matter).
There are a couple other keys too. First, the Cavs have to start boxing out Steph Curry. He’s averaged over rebounds a game so far in the finals, with double digits in three of the games. It’s also good to do, because leaning on a guy like Steph can sap his legs. Lay some wood on the dude on rebounds. And it’s not just Steph. The Cavs can’t lose the rebounding battle and expect to win. TT, especially, has got to start using positioning, and not just athleticism on rebounds.
Another key is winning the bench minutes. I’m convinced that if Deron Williams plays and doesn’t play well, the Cavs can’t win this game. I’d be much happier seeing Derrick Williams at the two with the Cavs’ jumbo lineup to start the second and fourth quarters, but Lue doesn’t seem included to play that much. Derrick was at his best this year when the Cavs played him as a utility two who could run the floor, dive to the basket, handle a little and hit open threes. He’s a great option against Shawn Livingston, who’s consistently posted up every little guard the Cavs have put on him. I hope Ty has the same thought.
I’m not going to get into the Shump/JR/Kyle debate, but suffice it to say, the Cavs are going to be small a lot. There will be minutes for all three, and they all have to play well.
We know what LeBron and Kyrie can do, and they’ll have to be great. But Kevin Love is my key. He’s been outstanding so far this finals, averaging, 18.5, 11.5 rebounds, 2.8 steals, and a block. His defensive headiness has broken up so many plays. Love’s also shooting 43% from outside, but Kevin has to has to has to start finishing inside. He’s got to go up strong and use one or two pump fakes and a very strong shot to either put the ball in the bucket or go to the line. Kev’s 12-31 inside the arc, and he has to be better and more aggressive. Also, Cleveland has to look for him inside, especially of the Warriors get in foul trouble. If Dray is on Kev or LeBron, and he’s in foul trouble, The Cavs have to go after him on the roll or in the post, and either LeBron or Love have to make him pay.
Golden State feels entitled to this championship, and the Cavs must give no quarter and cause the Warriors to lose their composure. We know they’re capable of doing it to the Dubs and KD. The Cavs played a perfect game from a pace standpoint Friday, running selectively, but conserving energy when they needed to. The pace mastery must continue, and Cleveland must avoid the temptation to get into a fast break contest. They also must take care of the ball. Another 20-4 debacle like game one will give the Dubs the trophy. The long the Cavs’ seem undaunted, the more the Dubs will unravel.
Game five starts in an hour. One game. Just one more game.
Trading Love would be stupid, unless a complete stud is the reward and I don’t think that’s happening. On the other hand, the management should take a long look at the coaching staff. They ran Lebron to the ground, establishing nothing but bad habits all regular season and of course they came to haunt in the first 2 games of the finals. Also, I would trade Shumpert for Teyana, his wife, in a heartbeat.
Dubs bench outscored Cavs bench 35-7… that’s not going to get it done…
Yeah. But Iggy played 38 minutes and is basically a starter. Can’t go by that.
Facts is facts
This hurts. But nothing that will ever overcome the joy, peace and contentment that was brought by last year’s championship.
Congratulations to the Warriors. We put up a great fight. I’m proud of our Cavs.
Yep.
Agree. And TBH I’m happy for Durant, I think he deserves this. Some of his teammates, however…
Oh god. If I have to hear about bench points. Iggy plays more than a starter 38 minutes tonight. Give me a break.
Get bent Cols… seriously
When they played the line up of KD, Curry, Klay, Green and Iguodala they have 4 high IQ playmakers​ and that is almost impossible to defend.
Cavs should cut ties with James Jones, Dahntay Jones, RJ, Frye, and Shumpert, in one form or another – NBA GMs are stupid to take dumb trades – Griffin will figure it out – they need to get younger and need some defensive studs who have lots of energy….while Cavs may need to go after PG13 – let him come to us – don’t recruit – thats lame like the Warriors
RJ and frye are useful playersand they are both good in the locker room. Shumpert is a lost cause.
That missed Korver three with under a minute to go up two pts in game 3 was probably the killer….if you want to point to one thing
Durant really did carry this team throughout…
Yep. Their other guys shrunk again.
No kidding. Love how curry hit the “dagger” after they were already going to win, but couldn’t do that for four straight when it was still in doubt
If Korver hits his season average we were right in this series. Was pleased with his defense but total choke on offense
His first time in the Finals – time will tell if he uses the experience to get better, even at his age.
Yeah, I wonder how management will view that.
Cavs put up a good fight tonight.
JR with a three and a word for someone. The final three of the season.
https://twitter.com/arisports/status/874473184472510464
Man. Durant. No Durant and Cavs win his going away. Sucks.
We lack young two-way players and GS has an embarassing amount of them. That is the story and I don’t know how that can change. Still, had we won the third game like we were supposed to, this is totally different series.
Cedi osman
Better execution at the end of Game 3, and we’re back in Cleveland on Thursday, and it probably goes 7…
You mean make the layups and threes. They executed quite well.
Nope… they missed their last 8 shots
Yes. It they were all good shots. Except the last Irving three and even then you’ve seen him hit that with the game on the line.
This convinced me that we don’t need to do anything drastic. Trade Shumpert for anything. Re-sign Korver. And stay the course. Next time try from the first game instead of the fourth game.
God, if they could trade Shump for a plus player, I’d be deeeeeeelighted…don’t think that’s happening, though…
I had fun being champs all year.
indeed
Your name fit Cols comment.
Cavs were still the only team to take even one game off the Dubs…
Nothing bad to say about our team. Didn’t go down like dogs and at least gave us a memorable Game 4. Any talk of firing Lue or trading Love/Kyrie is downright foolish. Re-up and reload for next year…maybe trade and get back Delly!
Exactly… we were a better team than last year’s championship team. I’m sure there will be rumors about Love being traded because there’s nothing else to talk about
This hurts. It does.
It doesn’t hurt nearly as much as it would if we had lost game seven last year.
Oh absolutely. Just the competitive fire in me. But yeah as I said above, nothing will overcome what last year’s title brought to me.
Irving looked injured all game.
Cols the Cavs fight bravely but then again to compete against the Warriors team you have to be both great defensively and offensively.
This series is 10% bad execution by Cavs, 20% bad coaching by Lue and 70% 73 wins + Kevin Durant
JR was 7-8 on threes… should have fed him more…
Couldn’t stop Durant on the other end, not sure it would’ve mattered
https://twitter.com/hashBasketball/status/874472040929140737
Gg CTB. Will see what happens in off season. If GSW resigns everyone not really sure Im interested in NbA anymore
They are going to resign everyone that matters…
Eh. I think the Cavs showed they can play with them. Durant was awesome. But the rest of that team did its normal suck when things got tight. Run it back.
I can’t believe how much I agree with you. That team is garbage without Durant
Durant straight murdered us. Sucks he didn’t play like this for the Thunder.
Glad the Cavs battled but they know they need more work…..Warriors had to grab 2nd best player to make up for an historic choke job…..weird season indeed….get some defensive players get younger if possible…GO CAVS!!
James averaged a triple double for the Finals. Of course never been done before
Gotta come back hungrier and on a mission next year, the way we did last year after we lost
Great season Cavs.
Whelp. Congrats warriors. Great season Cavs.
Irving ‘s stupid jumpers. Story of the series.
Story of the series was they didn’t take it seriously until game four
You’d think they’d just be trying to do everything to get the ball to JR…
SMH… how were there no fouls called on that play?
Cavs can’t get a call #EffTheDubs
Still representing and playing it out. So proud of this team. It’s been a weird year, but they’ve done everything they could.
JR is deserving…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HktV2yGtLv8
Cavs really needed crazy games from both Kyrie and Love, and they just haven’t been good enough this game…they did get a JR game….
Whoa. JR keeps it within striking distance.
WOW! JR has been UNBELIEVABLE this game!
Jr swish is just insanely good
We just didnt have the energy this game fir some reason. I think the mountain just got too high. Also our bench and klove were no shows
Needed to hold on in Game 3… would have at least gone 7 then…
Let’s come back like the dubs did in game three
The warriors have probably scored 20 or more points on driving layups made possible by Green pushing the help defender out of the lane
True
Really want to troll some Warriors boards now. Any good ones other than gsom?
33-7 on bench pts. Saw this too much in the regular season too. Deron and Korver sure have shrunk in the spotlight
Just 4 makes on 3. Come on!!!
To me, exhausted LeBron is the story of this finals.
One of maybe. But it’s simply Kevin Durant. He’s the one to unlock all the differences.
Gives them so many easy points…he can play wherever he wants, but I don’t have much respect for his ‘ring’…choke on it, KD…
Durant is difference in this series….Cavs really need to fix defense big time…..just comically bad at times
Lue had 100 games to figure out what to do when LeBron is on the bench. Hasn’t figured it out.
again the Cavs have shooters and 2 playmakers but the Warriors have shooters/playmakers and play solid defense.
Still like our core… we need some grinders though – an Andy/Delly type and some youth at the wing spot. Maybe James Jones will give up his roster spot.
73 wins + Kevin Durant
The most laughable finals MVP in history. Way to put the 73 win team on your back KD
This hurts.
It would hurt a lot more if they don’t win last year…
Well said EG.
That’s it for me guys. Shutting it off. We will rendezvous tomorrow or the day after. Not sure I wanna even talk basketball for a little while..
Yeah, this is about over…Durant the MVB, and Lebron MVP.
? Mvb?
Congrats to the WC all stars
That’s all she wrote…
Well, we gave it a good shot. Proud of the effort, if not always the execution. We just need to get more focuse & smarter to compete with this team. They are too good for silly plays. A healhty SAS is the team with a chance.
Yeah… you can’t play Korver on KD…
Cavs are done in man…..at least they didn’t lose at home…..but man there are flaw this team needs to fix and defense would be the first
Green just clears the lane for guys.
Yeah it drives me crazy…if they would just call one of the two dozen illegal clear out screens he sets I would be happy
He should be unplayable due to his fouls, but he gets respect from the refs for some insane reason
But JR has to left Green and help on that drive.
Ugh now we’re missing.
Draymond would make a great lead blocker….
Yeah, screw Durant
No quitting!
How many freaking steps does KD get to take on the gather? That was like 5
Lebron giving it his everything.
Ole Kyrie…
Poor possession there. Kyrie kills clock, late feed to James for 28 footer.
LeBron with a give up shot there.