Finals Live Thread: Game Five, Cavs @ Warriors
2017-06-12Man do I hate the Dubs. I mean nothing gets me as lathered up as a good sports hate, but that team is something else. I spent the last live thread talking about what is so loathsome about Curry, Steph, and KD, and did a liberal amount of quoting from Cullen Galagher’s If You Like the Warriors, You Are a Bad Fan and You Should Feel Bad, Too. I especially appreciated his descriptions of Steph Curry, “whose entire persona can be summed up by the phrase ‘my dad bought this for me,'” mainly because they apply to Klay Thompson too. And we all know that KD is a frontrunning weiner.
But if there’s a proverbial “straw that stirs the drink” for Golden State, it’s Draymond Green. Draymond put on quite a show Friday. From smacking Shump in the head, to picking up two technicals, to getting one rescinded, to clocking Tristan Thompson in the head on a play that wasn’t even reviewed, Dray had quite a night. And remember, Kevin Love got dinged for the weakest flagrant foul call in NBA history after KD whined about getting hit in the noggin.
Draymond also had nothing smart to say after and referred to Clevelanders as “not very sharp,” and then doubling down on that statement again yesterday. It’s safe to say that Dray is a little full of himself. He’s also the key to Cleveland winning this game. Green wants this game desperately, and for all his bravado, you know there’s no way he wants to go back to the North Coast. And Draymond has a history of losing his composure in moments like these. The Cavs need to go at him every second, not necessarily when he’s on defense, but they need to be right next to him goading him at all times. They need pump fakes and prods and pokes in the ribs to try to get himself to do something dumb to get kicked out of the game. And if I’m Richard Jefferson I’m walking near him every time he gets a foul against him and he flails his arm in disgust. Hopefully Dray hits someone and gets himself ejected. I wish they still had Delly.
It’s baffling why Draymond gets the deference he does from NBA officials, because there’s perhaps no one in the NBA who abuses the refs the way ‘Dray does. He intimidates them. The one thing the Cavs need to do is not be intimidated, and they need to be insistent with the refs, without being whiny or lazy on defense. Game four was the first game in which the Warriors didn’t get away with their nonstop defensive fouling. Cleveland must maintain their aggressiveness and put the onus on the officials to make calls or risk this game getting violently out of hand. SI’s Kenny Ducey said it best.
What happened on Friday is best described as shady, just like Dikembe Mutombo prematurely congratulating the 76ers on the first overall pick in the 2016 NBA draft, or the Knicks winning the ’85 lottery. Going back and retroactively removing a foul from Green, keeping him in the game, will live in infamy and fuel even more league conspiracy theories. If anything, it’s making those who truly believe the league influences the outcome of its games and seasons look more rational. Referees need to regain control, and practice transparency and consistency in their calls.
Stopping Green is key because the difference between Green and everyone else at the center spot is stark. Green’s foul trouble has limited Kerr’s ability to play Golden State’s vaunted “Death Lineup.” According to clutchpoints.com, that lineup is killing the Cavs.
The feared lineup has only seen the court for 17 of the total 192 minutes of playing time through four games, netting a 141.7 offensive rating, 69.4 defensive rating.
Meanwhile, Zaza (he who faced no punishment for jabbing at Iman Shumpert’s jewels) was a dumpster fire in game Four, and someone the Cavs will try to consistently exploit in game five. Expect him to play less.
Aside from getting Green to destruct, the key will be maintaining pressure on the Warriors. The longer they aren’t way out in front, the more they’re going to start getting nervous. The question? Will the Dubs’ sense of entitlement, preening, and lack of discipline be their unraveling? God, I hope so.
I would take the same defensive game plan the Cavs had in game one: do not let the shooters get going, even if it means giving up the occasional scrub layup. What needs to change though, is that the Cavs can’t lose KD in transition and just let him go coast to coast (or anyone for that matter).
There are a couple other keys too. First, the Cavs have to start boxing out Steph Curry. He’s averaged over rebounds a game so far in the finals, with double digits in three of the games. It’s also good to do, because leaning on a guy like Steph can sap his legs. Lay some wood on the dude on rebounds. And it’s not just Steph. The Cavs can’t lose the rebounding battle and expect to win. TT, especially, has got to start using positioning, and not just athleticism on rebounds.
Another key is winning the bench minutes. I’m convinced that if Deron Williams plays and doesn’t play well, the Cavs can’t win this game. I’d be much happier seeing Derrick Williams at the two with the Cavs’ jumbo lineup to start the second and fourth quarters, but Lue doesn’t seem included to play that much. Derrick was at his best this year when the Cavs played him as a utility two who could run the floor, dive to the basket, handle a little and hit open threes. He’s a great option against Shawn Livingston, who’s consistently posted up every little guard the Cavs have put on him. I hope Ty has the same thought.
I’m not going to get into the Shump/JR/Kyle debate, but suffice it to say, the Cavs are going to be small a lot. There will be minutes for all three, and they all have to play well.
We know what LeBron and Kyrie can do, and they’ll have to be great. But Kevin Love is my key. He’s been outstanding so far this finals, averaging, 18.5, 11.5 rebounds, 2.8 steals, and a block. His defensive headiness has broken up so many plays. Love’s also shooting 43% from outside, but Kevin has to has to has to start finishing inside. He’s got to go up strong and use one or two pump fakes and a very strong shot to either put the ball in the bucket or go to the line. Kev’s 12-31 inside the arc, and he has to be better and more aggressive. Also, Cleveland has to look for him inside, especially of the Warriors get in foul trouble. If Dray is on Kev or LeBron, and he’s in foul trouble, The Cavs have to go after him on the roll or in the post, and either LeBron or Love have to make him pay.
Golden State feels entitled to this championship, and the Cavs must give no quarter and cause the Warriors to lose their composure. We know they’re capable of doing it to the Dubs and KD. The Cavs played a perfect game from a pace standpoint Friday, running selectively, but conserving energy when they needed to. The pace mastery must continue, and Cleveland must avoid the temptation to get into a fast break contest. They also must take care of the ball. Another 20-4 debacle like game one will give the Dubs the trophy. The long the Cavs’ seem undaunted, the more the Dubs will unravel.
Game five starts in an hour. One game. Just one more game.
The bottomline is no team in the league as they are constructed right now will have a chance against the Warriors in at least the next 3 years.
Things change. For one thing, both Durant and Curry are injury prone. If they are not all in perfect health, it’s a different situation.
That’s true but when you have that mich talent you can afford injuries like they did with KD at the end of the season. Unless it’s multiple injuries which is highly unlikely to happen.
Cavs should go after for Paul George and time to trade Love
Cavs just need to reload and tinker the lineup a bit. They are basically a one transcendent star with two flawed one-way all stars and a bunch of decent role players, many of whom are unplayable against a great defensive team. Kyrie’ offense is great but he needs to improve his game management skills and defense. KLove needs to get stronger, he seems to wearing down as the series progresses and seems always clutching at somebody parts.
My takeaway is that it took a 73 win team adding KD to beat LeBron with a healthy Cavs team. That’s how good LeBron ia
That’s what I am saying. Also was very interested in the Warriors and Spurs series if Kawhi had not been injured. They may not have won it, but they would have not been swept and would have played more games and that would have been huge IMO. Teams have got to get way better defensively against the Warriors. Making this way too easy on them.
Warriors fans, as usual, stop by to show their class.
1. I’m proud of our team. Our Cavs. 2. Lebron James is still the best player in the world. 3. Lebron use this as motivation. 4. Same with you Kyrie and Kev. 5. Renew Griffin’s contract. Give him his job security he deserves it. I know he can continue to make us contenders. 6. Get Danny Green. 7. Get a defensive assistant coach. 8. Get a young point guard similar to what Delly brings. Also a young rim protector. 9. Build great habits in the regular season. Be smart. Stay healthy. I expect at least 60 wins. 10. I hope… Read more »
8. Is done, no? Currently has broken hand? Or is he not signed.
Referring to rim protector.
I doubt Tavares would see playing time even when healthy. But yeah he actually fits what I’m looking. It’s more of a help in the regular season I see what I mean for a big man to keep TT and Kev healthy.
*is what I mean
Run it back Cleveland.
Just thinking about the last here years of this team. Super great. It took a 73 win team signing Durant to take us down. Prettt proud of this organization.
So…odds are we’re probably doing this again next year. CLE-GS IV.
I’ve never been more convinced that the cavs will win next year. Warriors are about to start hemorrhaging cash. This may be Durant s only title
Kevin Durant took the path of least resistance to his ring. Too much work in OKC so he jumped on the team that already won without him. The NBA is sad right now.
It was his right. Lbj did the same re path of least resistance
maybe was path of least resistance but again lebron joined an unformed 5th seed team at the height of Boston’s run. really really different
A similar situation would have been if Lebron joined Boston, who already had a big 3 AND won a championship.
What KD did was unprecedented and in a LOT of ways different to what Lebron did.
LeBron was a wimp for leaving like KD did, but there were still questions marks with that Heat team. Questionable starting PG/C and no bench. That team still had to be built. And also, you knew that team was still beatable! Yes, these Warriors were beatable, but it didn’t feel that way.
With all do respect, you are wrong. Lebron didn’t joined an already championship team wich just posted the best regular season in NBA history in 2016. There is a huge difference.
Lue was ignorant many times postseason and didn’t take advantage of the depth he had on bench….Kerr played guys name ZaZA and JaVale and Patrick McCaw and McAdoo a few minutes in flow of game – not garbage time – and Lue couldn’t play Drick Williams or even Dahntay for 3 minutes in a game to spice up a lineup…..interesting and maybe ironic (if thats the right word) that Cavs best offensive lineup featured Williams and he never played outside garbage time….something had to go down for him to be demoted like that….we will never know
And Liggins went from guarding Curry on Christmas to unceremoniously cut.
Crowd chanting MVP for Curry, although Durant was just awarded that. They aren’t the sharpest over there, are they?
touche
Griffin’s contract needs to be renewed.
Really really really hope LeBron and Griffin fly up to New York to Adam Silver’s office this summer with 30 hours of footage of Warriors cheating/holding/shoving.
Actually now that I think about it, the league might respond to fears of Warriors being unbeatable by making fairer reffing of Warriors a point of emphasis this offseason. I wouldnt be surprised if Draymond reffed very differently next season.
Interesting point. The moving screens are completely out of hand
think its hilarious that a guy who was two time mvp with one of them being unanimous wasn’t even considered for mvp when his team wins and never has been mvp in teams last two titles….makes you wonder how good Curry really is or if he is surround by exceptional talent
He is Isaiah Thomas +3 inches
I love this take.
And a humongously better shooter…facts are facts…
He’s nothing without the all-time roster that’s around him. I’m tired of stating this again and again. Conversely, Lebron’s team is nothing without him.
Lbj sure looked tired. I’d love it if the team actually stuck to a plan of maintaining him. It’s just going to get harder and harder
I am sure mentally even more so than physically.
Yes, his last few press conferences you could kind of hear in his voice when he talked about mental preparation – it sounded like he was still up for it but it was taking a toll.
I’m not unhappy for Mike Brown.
Kinda same with me just because he has former ties with our team.
Lebron doesn’t deserve this.
Not sure what that means. He’s going to go down as one of the greatest players ever to play any sport. He paved the way for Kevin Durrant to jump teams. He was also part of the anti-smoothing over the cap.
The Warriors averaged an unbelievable 121.6 points per game in this series.
Thank you very much for another great season C:tb family. Can’t quite comment most of the time compared to last year because of work but as always, I enjoyed visiting this site. I hope to get more on the board starting this offseason and for us to grow even more.
Thank you everyone.
+1. What you said ^^^
???
GS fans booing the Cavs. All Class.
Really. Geez
I’d just run it back next year with some different ring chasing vets. Maybe Wade will come here.
I so hope the warriors handcuff them selves by signing curry to a max contract. He’s a glorified Isaiah Thomas
He definitely is much closr to Isaiah Thomas than Lebron, to put it this way. But surround Isaiah with 4 freaking All-NBA players in their prime and it is a different story.
They’re going to max curry and then regret it two years in. It would be like giving a Supermax contract to Kyle Korver
Lebron legacy will be strange…3-5 in finals but won Finals with two different teams and broke a historic drought…losses were to some great teams – think Mavs loss in 2011 was his worst (even though at time I loved it haha)
He has only been favored in 2 of his Finals. Verse the mavs. And the first heat Spurs
He’s been the best player on the floor for six straight finals. The only competition was Durant this series
His legacy will be: “If you were a GM and had to pick 1 player to start your team with out of all the players in NBA history…”
He averaged a freaking triple double in this series. First time ever that has been done
totally agree with that – its just he’s so dominant and yet has losing record but i would always argue he is best player of my generation and I watched Jordan too
His record is going to be five and five in the finals
It’s a weird thing; in ’07, should he have thought “Man, should we just lose to DET cuz we got no chance against SA and losing a Finals hurts my legacy?” I mean, he would have been roasted so bad if Boston beat us this year, etc. Only strike against him is the Dallas series. That’s on him.
Lebron will win more titles.
What’s Durant going to yell “Oakland!!! “
Lol ‘San Francisco, this one’s for you!’
“Mom!”
Seatttttttle!
Curry had average game but lead his team in TOs but of course that will never be mentioned