Cavs: The Podcast 0016 – The Return of Raab
2012-11-25
For those who have read “The Whore of Akron” it should come as no surprise that Scott Raab wants to see this Cavs team winning again (although, lets be honest, anyone reading this blog probably wants to see the Cavs as winners.) On today’s podcast Scott and I got into some real nitty gritty conversation about what direction this Cavs team is headed in. Specifically, we discussed the development of Tristan Thompson, Kyrie Irving, Tyler Zeller, and of course, Neon Dion. In addition, we got into the bench (which hasn’t looked QUITE so terrible recently), Byron Scott as a head coach, and a little discussion on the other two Cleveland sports franchises.
As always, SoundCloud at http://soundcloud.com/cavstheblog/0016-the-return-of-raab
And iTunes at https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/cavs-the-podcast/id528149843
Also, for the sake of civility, lets try to keep this comment section nice. Keep in mind that everything on this podcast is opinion. That being said, let us know what you think about what is discussed.
Hate to say this but the bloggers here are very unimaginative for being the geeks and dork kids they seem to be… “Cavs: The Blog”? What an edgy and creative name lol! Since the Cavs are not going to win the championship this year I am completely happy taking a high lottery pick as a consolation. I have full confidence in their OBVIOUS PLAN to add significant pieces in the 2013 draft and free agency due to the CBA. Why is this hard to grasp? Next year we will definitely be built to make a playoff push, and in the… Read more »
I DON’T KNOW WHAT WE’RE YELLING ABOUT Seriously, guys, let’s find some middle ground – Can’t we be a little concerned about the development of our players, while being a little optimistic in the brief flashes of NBA competence we see (ie: Our starting lineup sports pretty solid plus-minus numbers as a five man unit?) You can keep cherry picking rookie stats all you want Tom, but the fact of the matter is most rookies aren’t very great right off the bat. Especially someone like Thompson, who was a known project. Dion and Zeller are literally 13 games into their… Read more »
Thanks for commenting jonesy. Great insight. Don’t be shy in the future. I have some doubts about Byron Scott as well. But yes, it’s probably too early to pass judgement.
Just checked out this podcast. Fantastic work, Mallory. Be sure to thank Scott for me. I’m going to have to read that copy of The Whore of Akron that’s been sitting on my shelf for over a year. (I wasn’t quite ready emotionally). I’m going to have to start reading his stuff in Esquire, too. I read Tom Junod a lot on there, and he’s fantastic. Love to see the passion of the Cavs fans here. Thanks for your enthusiasm, everyone.
Long time reader, first time poster. Now that I’ve gotten that out of the way, onto the substance. I think the Cavs are, for the most part, on the right track. Kyrie is a stud. Sure, his defense is lacking right now, but we can’t forget the he has to carry the bulk of the team’s offense at this point, too. And if I do say so myself, that’s a job he’s been doing quite well. With his offensive production, which we will likely see continue to improve from it’s already All-Star levels, if he peaks defensively as a “slightly… Read more »
@MFII I’d say save the cap room trade assets for next year because there shouldn’t be anything amazing left this year other than a straight up cash dump. I was all for them trading for Harden, but it would have been tough. Dion’s stock wasn’t that high after the summer and preseason. What else is really out there other than guys with terrible contracts? I’m sure they could trade for Amare, or Boozer, but both would be terrible. The luxury tax is going to create more Harden like trades and for now, the usual suspects are all capped out. I… Read more »
Kevin – I think I’m being overly optimistic about Waiters and Varejao. I’d say I’m pessimistic about TT, maybe a bit prematurely. With Kyrie, I think he’s a top 5 offensive player right now but Nate’s post coupled with some analysts I trust have me thinking Kyrie needs to make a concerted effort at the defensive end. My point in posting the pessimistic post was that there are real life data points here that we are ignoring. Is there anything specifically that I posted that you think is either wrong or not a possible outcome? As in, it’s not possible… Read more »
All this talk and no one’s mentioned that coaching is a huge failing of this team? The inconsistent rotations, the lack of a sound defensive scheme, etc, etc. When healthy, this team would be an average offense strictly based on PnRs and weakside cutting. What needs to be done here is real big man development and sound defensive strategy. Dion isn’t good at man defense rotations yet, but his on-ball d is strong. A good coach would be teaching those rotations and killing Kyrie in defense on the fundamentals of fighting picks and passing off penetration effectively. Kyrie didnt get… Read more »
I wish I would have known there was a Cavs the Emo-Blog cleverness award.
I’m pretty sure the celtics were at. 500 when we played them(finished above .500 though…) and I remember the knicks being pretty bad at the beginning of last season.
Knicks and Celts were before – http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2012_games.html
I may be remembering things wrong, but I’m pretty sure that last year, the cavs didn’t beat a single opponent above .500 until we beat Dallas, which was 22 games into the season. This year, the cavs have played 10 out of their first 14 games on the road and 9 of them currently have a record above .500 and 2 of them are at .500. I’m not sure if this team is better than last years team, but our schedule has definitely been much more difficult.
Tom, I’m kind of surprised by the depth of your pessissism. Obviously, Kyrie needs alot of work on defense, but he is an amazing offensive player. He can totally be a top-5 offensive player in the league, and you have to expect his defense to improve some. Tristan is making strides in his shooting efficiency. He’s ahead of where Emeka Okafor was at in true shooting percentage in Okafor’s second season, and Okafor debuted in the NBA at an older age than TT is now. Tristan’s defensive rebounding has improved from last year, and I think he’s on a decent… Read more »
Cory (sorry your post got eaten!) here’s my question to you – Why do we make a trade NEXT YEAR? Why is NEXT YEAR the target year? Like Tom said, it’s WAYYYYY too early to make a judgement on Waiters – he’s been on this team for 13 games and has a PER of 12.63 – nothing about that indicates stardom. He’s explosive, but also shoots way too much. Only time can tell there. Honestly, even for Kyrie, it’s still to early to tell. I just don’t understand the 3 year plan thing – why is that the mindset? Who… Read more »
I will sum up the disagreement
I think that the Cavs are heading in the right direction
Cavs The Blog does not
“The major sports are reluctant to pull teams out of markets, especially one with a long history. Not going to happen.”
I know this is from a way’s back, but your history has little to do with how much money you’re making now, which is the primary factor.
I don’t think anyone is asking for an instant contender. But I do think it’s reasonable that people like seeing the Cavs win. And Cols, you confound me. You claim to be pleased with the Cavs’ continued losing, yet complain that a blog about a losing team is so depressing. You can’t really have it both ways.
MF Isn’t this true of every team? Of course you have to draft good to great players. My argument isn’t that they should be tanking every season in order to get the #1 pick every year. My point is that this is a young and improving team with the potential to be good with more time. Who said anything about putting all our eggs in one basket? No one is saying to build only through the draft. You build the team in various ways. They seem to have done well in the draft and FA and trades will come along.… Read more »
I offer you the award if you can explain to me in what ways you saying “Tyler Zeller looks solid” has any basis in reality.
So clever Tom!!!!
You win the Cavs The Emo-Blog cleverness award. Way to go!
Brian Robiskie had great hands and Colt McCoy was “a winner”. I can’t believe the Browns are still losing games they drafted so well!
Cols I don’t know how you can argue that they’re better than last year – before Andy and Kyrie got injured, they were actually half decent (remember when we all talked about the playoffs when the reason started and we won a bunch?) Again you fail to understand what I’m saying – if Waiters, Zeller, and TT (to some degree) don’t become good to great players, than no matter WHO we draft next year, we’re not going to be a great team. If we miss next year, the same mentality stands. What I am arguing isn’t that we should sign… Read more »
There is a wide range from being blatant homers and also being overly critical and underwhelmed.
I’m choosing to see the positive developments in the team and enjoy watching the starters play. I think it looks like this team is going in the right direction. That’s not blatant homerism, that’s what I see and think.
You obviously see things differently. But that doesn’t mean that you get to claim the high road that you are not being a blatant homer.
And what is the deal with the OKC comparisons? Who is comparing the Cavs to OKC?
*I meant MORE than the assets the Cavs have going forward.
As another thought experiment – I’m going full blown “Cleveland”-mode. Some of you need to face reality, or puberty or something. 1. Kyrie Irving is considered by many to be the worst defensive player in the entire NBA. Much of his reputation is due to him being the most clutch player in the NBA last season. Ask any analyst, and they will tell you, “clutchness” is a mirage. Last year his “clutch” stats projected out to 53 points over 48 minutes at a staggering 58% eFG. So far this year that has been cut in half. 25 points over 48… Read more »
MF Seriously? Your words “If you are happy with losing, fine” Look dude, this team is better than it’s been at any point since losing LeBron. It’s talented, fun to watch, and competitive. Chris Grant has done a very admirable job in drafting good players and has not commited the NBA sin of signing mediocre talent to big contracts just to satisfy the impatient fanbase that is seemingly the writers of Cavs The Blog. When FAs that can actually change the tragectory of the team, I’m sure the Cavs will go after them. I don’t see how you can argue… Read more »
I thought their was a rebuilding plan all along. Flip as much junk on the roster into assets for the future as possible. Grant has definitely succeeded at this and they still have the cap room to do it again. Marquee free agents will not sign in Cleveland unless the Cavs drastically overpay them ala Larry Hughes, Jones, yadda. If the Cavs pick up a major contributor it will probably be via trade. Maybe Rudy Gay…Maybe the Kings won’t want to commit to Boogie long term. We’ll see. Cleveland has the cap room and the draft picks to make their… Read more »
The problem truly is the bench. Get an additional 1-2 reasonably decent players and we will be a playoff team. I can only think of 9 guys deserving of playing time in non-blowout games: Irving, Waiters, Varajao, Gibson, Zeller, Thompson, Pargo, Casspi and maybe Miles. Unfortunately, 2 or more of those players goes cold each game (or gets injured) so we simply don’t have enough decent players to fill the court (unless you want your starters to play a million minutes). The fact that we still have Luke Harrongody, Donald Sloan, John Leuer, Samardo Samuels, and Luke Walton on our… Read more »
Let me add this as well – if you believe the BS that Chris Grant has some grand 3 year plan or something, you’re buying exactly what he’s selling. He wants nothing more than to have fans accepting losses – isn’t that every GM’s dream? If we win 32 games next year, will I come on here to read people saying it’s growing pains?
Fun to watch doesn’t necessarily equal wins. And you could say they’re also the most frustrating team to watch because sometimes they look together while other times they’re a mess. Frankly, this team is about as competitive as they were last year with Ramon Sessions coming off the bench. Think we could’ve added a guy like that in FA????? Cols you’re missing my point entirely. I’ll put it simply. Lets say at the end of this season, where you’ve decreed we should definitely be bad so we can draft high again, we end up with the 4th pick in the… Read more »
Tom – There is a WIDE gulf between where Tristan is today offensively, and being a great offensive player. He will likely settle somewhere in between, which means he can substantially improve. What he is today offensively IS NOT what he will be for the rest of his career. Those are your words, not mine. I find your sentiment highly pessimistic and frankly, unreasonable. You badly misinterpreted what I said about his offense. If he is say a 2/10 on offense now, and great is 9/10, he could reach a 5 or 6 in 2-4 years . If he can… Read more »
Mallory, if you cannot see the clear difference between the team two years ago and this current team, well, you should quit this blog this minute. As Cols points out, when healthy, this starting 5 was pretty damn good. This was reflected in their top 5 rankings in starters plus/minus. Shite, if the bench played HALF as well as they are now, how many more wins would we currently have? On TT, nothing is set. I laugh to myself cuz I heard the same things said about Andy and his offense for years! Many seriously suggested he NEVER take a… Read more »
Do you watch the games or just look at the standings?
I think you are just trolling me (which would be weird since it’s your blog). If you are arguing to trade this year’s roster for the roster that got them in position to draft Kyrie Irving, be my guest. I don’t think you do.
This team has been much more fun to watch than any team post-Lebron.
Wait, you think this Cavs team is better than the last two years? Seriously? They’ve won 3/13 games. That’s on pace to win 18 games.
MF Who said suck for years? Let me repeat myselft THEY WERE THE WORST TEAM IN THE ENTIRE LEAGUE A MERE 2 YEARS AGO They are markedly better this year, competing in pretty much every game, but sadly losing most of them. It’s the competitiveness, especially when the starters are in, that makes me think the team is definitely on the right track. Their draft record has been pretty great. 1. Superstar in Kyrie Irving 2. Dion Waiters looks like a star in the making 3. Thompson looks solid 4. Zeller looks solid How is this not a good to… Read more »
Cols, let me ask you something. Why do you think the only way to become a good team is to suck for many years, accumulate lottery guys, and then suddenly turn it on? I ask this because, beyond drafted guys (who, beyond Kyrie, may or may not become stars), what has this organization done that has lead you to believe they have a game plan for becoming an contender? The fact is you can’t answer that question. And that’s worrisome. Sure, we could all look back in 3 years as we’re playing the Thunder in the finals and laugh about… Read more »
Cols714, I think that the majority of the writers for the blog actually bemoaned the idea of contention. I myself wanted a playoff spot. Did I think it likely? No, but I thought it possible, and intoxicating. Mallory isn’t necessarily saying he’s shocked by the cavs ending up in the lottery. I’m not. But forgive me for not being thrilled at the prospect. Forgive me for wishing my favorite team could win some games.
MF
Why are you surprised about a lottery pick this year?
Maybe the main problem with the writers of this blog is that they, for some unknown reason, think that the Cavs should be contending for the playoffs this year.
Why are you surprised? Let’s review:
1. Cavs were the Worst Team In The League
2. Draft Kyrie Irving, still sucked
3. Draft Dion Waiters, starters are good, bench sucks, need more talent.
Why would you expect to go from the worst team in the league to playoffs in less than 2 years?
Are people seriously celebrating another lottery pick? Have I woken up in an alternate universe????!?!?!?!?!?
Dani – it’s not Cleveland Sports depressionism. It’s just watching him play. Here’s John Hollinger’s analysis. He’s not from Cleveland and exhibits no Cleveland-ism. “Thompson, however, did little else of significance. His catching skills were a major disappointment — any time he catches en route to the rim, he has to stop and gather himself before going up, and for that reason he was constantly stripped around the basket. Thompson also needs to improve his post game; he took a third of his shots from 3 to 9 feet but made only 31.7 percent of them. He has some elements… Read more »
I definitely don’t think he’s going to turn into amare stoudemire or josh smith, but I also think claims that Tristan is going to never, ever progress are simply Cleveland sports depressionisms (and that’s CERTAINLY not a word). Tyson chandler is now one of the most efficiently scoring big men in the league. It took him until he was nearly thirty to figure it out. Tristan Thompson turned 21 on March 13th. Give him some time to develop.
Tom Of course Cavs fans should be optimistic. We have Irving, Waiters, Andy (I can never spell his last name), and Thompson for the next however many years. These guys are all good players, Irving is already great, and Waiters looks like a stud. The only people here that are pessimistic are the writers of the blog itself. Just go back and look at the draft day posts. It was ridiculous and continues to be crazily pessimistic even though the Cavs starters have been playing great together. Yes, the bench sucks. Yes, we all wish that Thompson was better (and… Read more »
MRM – he will never be a great offensive player. That IS who he IS. You’ve said it. #4 picks should be at least GOOD offensive players. He’s a liability on offense. +/- may indicate he is having a greater defensive effect that the eye perceives, or that his backups are just worse (not hard to imagine since the Cavs bench has been so terrible). Hopefully it’s the former and he has real defensive value. He needs to become an elite defender.
I’m really encouraged by the defiant optimism from comment crowd here and at WFNY.
This is who TT is? At age 21, 73 games into his NBA career? He will never be a great offensive player, but to say this is who he is at this point in time is insane. Big men typically mature well into their mid-to-late twenties. Tristan must be doing something right, because the Cavs consistently outscore their opponent when he is on the floor according to http://www.82games.com/1213/ROLRTG8.HTM. He leads the team by a fairly significant margin in every +/- stat and rating. Obviously this isn’t the end all of stats, but his impact on the game certainly isn’t as… Read more »
Of all the things I’d love to be wrong about, I’d most love to be wrong about Cleveland losing one of its franchises. But I can’t think of a single instance where an owner who wished to move his team was prevented from doing so by the NBA, NFL, or MLB.
The only thing that makes less sense than Tristan Thompson spending all summer working on his mid-range game, is that 22% of his JUMP SHOTS have been blocked. I really like Tristan the player, but Tristan the basketball player is going to need to learn how to protect the rim, because offensively, I think this is who he is.
I completely disagree that Cleveland will lose one of their teams over the next 20 years. The major sports are reluctant to pull teams out of markets, especially one with a long history. Not going to happen.
I completely agree that within the next 20 years Cleveland will probably lose on their teams with the Indians being the most likely one. From the poor ownership situation to the general lack of interest in fandom they make more sense than the Browns or Cavs. Attendance was embarrassing last year and it’s going to be much worse this year for the Tribe. Sigh…Go Cavs.
Big fan and I love that he bought into Grovember and Decembeard.