Cavs: The Podcast 0026 – The Problem Is Melo
2013-03-04
Ouch.
That one really, really hurt. Â Like bad breakup hurt. Â Like getting ripped to shreds by your boss hurt. Â Like finding out you have bed bugs hurt (don’t worry, I’m clean.)
After leading by 22(!) off of a crazy shooting night from Mo Speights, the Cavs got COLD (and I mean C-O-L-D COLD) from the field, while doing their usual lets-not-play-d thing. Â And, surprise surprise, they lost.
On today’s podcast Tom, Nate, and I discuss the Cavs’ 102-97 loss to the New York Knicks. We also discuss the current make-up of the team, Kyrie’s D, TT and Tyler’s ceilings, and how to best improve.
As always we’re on SoundCloud at – https://soundcloud.com/cavstheblog/0026-the-problem-is-melo
And on iTunes at –Â https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/cavs-the-podcast/id528149843?mt=2
Enjoy!
Bill, I agree you you completely on Iggy. I just don’t see him opting out of a $16 million contract to take $10-12 million per season with Cleveland if he could get that elsewhere. The athleticism thing really bothers me. His entire game, offensive and defensive is dependent on his agility, speed and leaping ability. Once that slips he won’t be worth half of his contract. If he was 25 sure. He’s not. The Cavs have to over pay to sign middle or upper tier free agents. They’d probably have to offer him a near max deal to get him… Read more »
I don’t understand all the Igoudala love. Yes, he is a good defender but none of his teams have ever been a contender and he’s almost 30. He’s not going to get any better; we’ve seen his top potential 3 or 4 years ago. He relies on athleticism for everything he does and he’s going to start losing some of that each season. He can’t shoot the 3. He is a driver but we already have that with Kyrie and Dion. We need a 3 pt shooter at SF. Defense is important but why pay $10-15 mill a year for… Read more »
@ Mallory – it might make a nice sound bite for future podcasts.
@AdamFl – I have a feeling that they will come away with a center in the draft. I mentioned yesterday that I didn’t see a target that the Cavs could cash in all their assets for. They might to move up in the draft. Maybe not all their picks, but some. Leaving the injury aside, Noel makes the most sense.
Fuzzy boots –
Bringing up the broken bowl made me chuckle. It’s amazing – the thing split PERFECTLY in half.
I am still on the Otto Porter and maintaining flexibility bandwagon but if we draft a big man in the draft I would love to see us trade for a versatile wing like Iguodala’s teammate, Wilson Chandler. He seems redundant in Denver as they have Brewer and Gallinari but maybe they are planning on letting AI2 walk. He signed a 4 year $37 million contract last spring so he has 3 years left at $9.25 million. He is 25 and has been in the league for 6+ years, I think he would be a great 3 and D player you… Read more »
lol ” i broke a bowl”. Also, i’m emailing colin for a refund. just kidding. For free content, that’s well thought out and written, I feel CtB is excellent. Perhaps to curb the pessimism, CtB should have CtB: insider, similar in fashion to espn: insider. Although i feel like people would still pay the fee to come on the comments to s%^& the bed.
hahahaha – yeah Mallory how did you break a bowl? were u washing dishes while moderating our podcast?
I think the Spurs are the only team that can beat Miami and I felt the same way last year. Not a great matchup for the Heat. That being said, I don’t see the Spurs making it out of the west.
It kind of highlights the comparison of what teams are contenders for the title and which playoff squads are competitive. The odds of a team other than Miami, San Antonio or OKC winning the title are slim. Like I’d seriously go with under 5%.
Considering that OKC destroyed the Spurs after adjusting, I think the same thing would have happened with the Heat. The Heat last year in the Finals were playing at an extremely high level. No one was going to take them down.
Well, if Miami does win the east, I guess I’ll be eating some crow. But if they don’t, I want some kind of a prize…lol
I think Miami wins the title this year if they play OKC. If they play a healthy San Antonio it could create major problems for the Heat. Duncan and Parker would expose their greatest weaknesses. Pop is still the best coach in the league at exposing a weakness in the opponent. Those are the only three teams I can envision making the Finals this year. The Clippers aren’t getting out of the second round. As strange as it sounds they might be too deep for Vinny. He’ll find a way to mess up the playoff rotations. Griffin and Jordan bricking… Read more »
Cory – I think SA would have defeated the Heat last year. Miami plays that hyper aggressive defense that overplays everything to force turnovers. I think SA would expose that. If the heat try to defend without the constant swarming double teams, they could be exposed in the post. SA was playing like the best team in the NBA last season and then Serge Ibaka happened. It reminded me of the Cavs playing the Magic in 2009. One team just caught fire at the right time and they were a buzzsaw. If SA is totally healthy and gets to the… Read more »
Cody
Nobody in the east is going to beat the Heat. Bill Simmons also keeps bringing up teams that he thinks will get the job done, but I don’t see any way that happens.
If they lose, it’s going to be in the Finals. But they probably will win that too. They are a great team.
@grover13 They would simply need to trade for Love and then leave enough salary cap room to sign Lebron. Or even do a sign n trade for Lebron. Hardly impossible.
Tom, We’ll see how it plays out. I think the Cavs could make the playoffs next season with an upgrade at center and keeping the bench intact for the most part. If they do and keep cap space for LeBron, I think it’s there a good chance he comes back. Of course, that’s mostly a hunch. But I don’t believe Miami will look as attractive after 2013-14. I’ll also go on record as saying that I don’t think Miami will win it all this year. They are peaking too early. Indiana has the tools to beat them. If they can… Read more »
If we could package almost any non-Irving assets for Love or especially Marc Gasol I’d be all for it. Dudley or Igoudala? Not so much.
Tom, I really don’t like Igoudala just cause he can’t hit 3’s. Plus now we have livingston’s long pesky arms to defend perimeter guys!Love watching that dude play!
SwIrving – hopefully there’s room for 2 on the I love Livingston boat. I can’t get enough of that guy.
Good point on Iguodala. He’s been poor at 3s this season and particularly bad at corner 3s: 19-82 (yikes).
It would be nice to have someone that can bang that corner 3 consistently.
I enjoyed listening to the podcast even though we lost. They shared some really great highlights in the game. The 2nd quarter was awesome. Another bright spot was TT playing hard all the way to the end. I have thought the 2nd unit plays with better chemistry and flow and it has been key to some of the Cavs success. The starters are not there not even halfway! I would like to see Gee improve on his shooting. It seems he only makes the shots from the far left most of the time. I’s love to see a mean streak… Read more »
@Vesus-
This isn’t video-game NBA. The Cavs couldn’t afford to pay Love, Lebron and Irving. A dose of perspective, please.
Is it OK that I mention him by name? You guys were pretty quick to get after Mallory for doing that…lol
@Tom
Are you saying they should make Iguodala an offer instead of LeBron, or in addition to? Yes, I’m going under the premise of LeBron opting out.
Cody, I want the Cavs to win a championship. I’d prefer they do it without LeBron. I think it is more likely they could get Iguodala in free agency and here’s why. Philly made him a max-player kind of offer and he’s been seen as a disappointment since then. I think teams would be reluctant to offer him a similarly high offer in his next FA cycle, especially since he’s almost 30. I think the Cavs could slightly overpay for him and still nab him for around 10 million a year – and I think he fits a need so… Read more »
Kevin Love needs a change of scenery. He’s one of the few players for whom I’d be willing to package Tristan. Bring in Love and Lebron will absolutely re-sign here. He would almost have no choice.
What would be the point of trading our draft picks and cap room for a player like Igoudala? Why would we trade all those assets for Dudley and Gortat? This team is being built for championships not to just simply make the playoffs. That’s exactly what those proposals are setting us up for. If we trade those assets for those two players we make the playoffs but we don’t content for a championship. You guys say that we don’t have time to develop players. But we do. The NBA right now is being dominated by OKC and the Heat. Tristan… Read more »
Luis – Iguodala has a player option for this season (which he will almost assuredly exercise). Next season he will become an unrestricted free agent. Then I think it would behoove the Cavs to make him an offer. The caveat would be, not to be in desperation mode and overpay him to, for instance, “keep kyrie happy” – but to add him to the core to provide defense on the wings and some explosive fast break opportunities. Believe me, I saw what overpaying Larry Hughes did to the Cavs flexibility. As with everything – the balance between maintaining future flexibility… Read more »
There’s different ownership and management in Memphis than the last time they blew it up, but it’s possible in the next year or two that they do it again. They are 9-1 over their past 10, but Zbo is probably going to regress in the next two years. He turns 32 in July. I just don’t see them improving from where they are at now and West is filthy competitive. It’s not a stretch that if they regress a little next year they will be the 7th or 8th team in the conference. Franchises like Memphis don’t have the luxury… Read more »
Now you’re putting words in my mouth. There is a difference between being a contender and competitive. We don’t know what the current squad will become, but I sincerely doubt that the goal of Gilbert and Grant is to be a competitive team that gets out of the second round once in the next 8 years. If that is the result, we’ll have a fun time watching them. We’ve all been watching the past couple years. I will watch either way. I’ll still take vacations to Cleveland just to see them in person. The NBA really only has four teams… Read more »
@ Cory Hughey
You’re right that Memphis doesn’t have any young talent coming in, but they should be able to stay under (or near) the tax threshold with the trades of Rudy Gay, Speights, Ellington, etc. Still, if they could pull it off, that would be huge.
Rich, as usual, is correct. And he’s also stealing my material!!!! Joking, Rich. But keep up the good work of keeping these guys honest.
I have to take issue with the comment, “the Price/Daugherty era Cavs II”. This is said as if it’s something not to strive for. If the Cavs don’t come up against the greatest player in the history of the NBA, then who knows what happens. They were playoff contenders before the Jordan moments, and they were beat. It doesn’t mean that they were incapable of winning, they just happened not to win. It seems if your assertion, Cory, is if they can’t win a championship, then they shouldn’t even bother to field a competitive team. Part of it is just… Read more »
Just finishing the podcast. Great job. Grant seems pretty shrewd with his negotiations over the past three years. He operates from a position of power. He has an owner who is willing to spend. That’s a weapon that 20 of the leagues other GMs don’t have. I’m okay with Gortat and Dudley but you could get them for basically nothing. Phoenix is finally hitting the tank zone. They might be the first team to gun for Wiggins. You guys might have brought up THE trade target in the podcast…Marc Gasol. Memphis is shaping themselves into the Hawks of the Western… Read more »
If the Cavs could land Marc Gasol that would be a coup. Thanks for listening Cory/Scuzz/Jon, and as always, for providing such entertaining and insightful comments. You guys make this fun.
Seemed like ball movement became non-existent in the 3rd quarter and they were settling for jumpers. Walton was trying, but the lanes weren’t there and I think his passes were being anticipated a little. Good work on the podcast as usual guys. As far as the waiting on LeBron debate, I think it’s something the Cavs have to do. If there’s a chance to add the leagues best player, I don’t see how they can pass that up. The Cavs are in a position that they can continue to add pieces to the team and still keep the cap space… Read more »
The podcasts are getting a lot better. Good work.
I agree with Tom that the Cavs timing their ascent is key. That’s why I disagreed with the Gortat/Dudley trade idea, but enough about that. It’s important to be patient with assets (like the Rockets) and not blow assets for the chance to be mediocre (like the Wizards).
Thanks Jon, and yeah – everyone is on the same page – no one wants to be mediocre – just some people think that happens with trades/fa, others with draft picks. I’m of the thought that the Cavs have enough flexibility now to choose their portfolio however they please – which is a good position to be in.
Ellington is probably better in smaller doses. Role players are role players for a reason, that’s their ceiling. Waiters really has become a difference maker on this team already. I don’t think Dion gets enough national praise and the plain journalists didn’t start dealing his improvements until this week. If Harrison Barnes put up the numbers that Waiters does, he’d be proclaimed as a future superstar. If Waiters produced what Barnes does he’d still be labelled a bust. David Thorpe can’t just say something good about him without getting his snark on. I still think next year is the leap… Read more »
‘the Cavs beat two teams without Kyrie Irving and those teams had combined to defeat the Cavs the last, I dunno, 20+ times?”
No. The Cavs have beaten the Raptors twice in a row now.
Rich FTW. My point, if it’s possible to get past my egregious error, is that the Cavs have found ways to win games when not at full strength. So why does the lack of Waiters/Zeller predestine the Cavs to a loss? That doesn’t make sense. And I’ve seen like 12 people now point out that the Cavs were short handed. That’s fine. But while you are clamoring for Mallory to have perspective – how about some perspective on the Knicks? They played last night and they made up that 22 point deficit without Carmelo. It’s fine, Rich, if your recap… Read more »
I don’t listen to the podcasts because Mallory is just so over the top (see “cut ties with Zeller” after less than a year). Every win and every loss is a new high and new low for him. Zero ability to keep perspective on the goals of the season. Whatever.
The Cavs lost a game to a much more experienced, better team while missing multiple starters. Life goes on.
A discussion I had with the boys yesterday: What would it take to get Chuck Hayes in a Cavs uniform?
First loss (probably since Lebron left) that actually hurt. Sucks to be at this point in the rebuild. Good enough to compete with the best but rarely good enough to beat them.
And I really think we should consider looting the body of the (Nut)Sacramento Kings–it can’t just be the Rockets.
Yeah they are getting pillaged!
The Cavs have shown all year that they struggle keeping an even keel during the high points and low points of game–i.e. they’re best players are barely old enough to drink. It sucked to watch, but hey, at least Utah lost another heart-breaker tonight. Agree on cashing in on the assets–as much as I like watching the players we draft grow, this is a superstar league where you need to use assets to acquire superstar talent. If this were a videogame and we could simulate some seasons then that would be great, but I think we’ve got to draft 1-2… Read more »
Given that only 4 games separate the 3rd and 11th positions in the lottery, it’s hard for me to get upset about losses like this.
@Nathan – true. Every loss is more ping pong balls right. There’s always a silver lining.
The sky is falling! The sky is falling! Oh wait…
EvilGenius – was that your takeaway from listening to the podcast?
I read this game very simply: When 3 of your top 11 players are out (Andy, Zeller, Waiters), and you’re having to play the end of your bench against a good team, you’re going to lose. Why would anyone be surprised by that?
If Zeller and Waiters don’t recover soon, you’ll need to get your collection of tank pictures.
Dave: the Cavs beat two teams without Kyrie Irving and those teams had combined to defeat the Cavs the last, I dunno, 20+ times? But the Knicks ending their 10 game losing streak at the Q after Carmelo Anthony left the game with the Cavs up 22 points is…..”why should anyone be surprised by that”. Color me slightly surprised. Also the Cavs were well rested while the Knicks lost last night to the Heat.
It was a disappointing loss – the Cavs had a lot of positive factors in their favor even if they were missing Waiters and Zeller.
Last week’s podcast was after a big win over the Bulls, Demetrius!
Looking forward to hearing this. Is it just coincidence that these seem to only go up after losses where you guys might need to vent?
OK we need a clean look at a last second game-tying shot. What kind of play do we draw up to free one of our SEVERAL marksmen fot the last shot? Perhaps something similar to SVG’s brilliant inbounds play that set up Shard’s heartbreaking dagger a few years back? Naaahhhh, just throw it to Kyrie at the top and maybe he’ll catch it, break the defender’s ankles and nail a contested 30 footer…So crazy and unpredictable, it just might work. Oh wait, the opposing coach, the players, the commentators and even the cheerleaders totally expected that. Once again, great job… Read more »
Gee, follow dion’s actions and drive/pass 90% and shoot 10%. Ellington, you are excused from tonight, from the sole fact that I don’t remember seeing u do anything meaningful in the 1st half. thompson, be more confident in yourself walton, you just earned yourself another year in the league over the last month. congrats on vet minimum miles, follow gee whos following dion’s actions. you have speed, quickness, ability to drive. cop out 3s. drive/dish pick/roll, make something happen besides shooting contested 3s! speights, next game you overestimate your skills based on the first 1.5 periods tonight. lots of missed… Read more »
Man I’d really like to see Tristan get more shots, especially in these games where either Irving or Waiters is out. He’s efficient. Let him go be efficient with more attempts.