Clearing House
2013-04-28While primarily draft-related, let’s start the article addressing other quick topics.
First, the coaching search didn’t proceed exactly as anticipated, but at the end of the day (literally, one day), I feel much better about Mike Brown as Coach than Byron Scott.
Next, regarding the vague whispers of trade-talk, I hope the team stands pat. It seems the storm has been weathered, and next season the wounds begin to heal. I want to see the current core of players lead that charge. Here are five indisputable facts about the 2012 – 2013 Cleveland Cavaliers:
- Kyrie Irving represented the team as the NBA’s youngest All-Star.
- Tristan Thompson turned 22 in March, works tirelessly, and of 72 qualified power forwards last season, he ranked 27th for PER. I won’t be placing even-money bets on multiple All-Star appearances from TT yet, but last season reflected great progress from the second-year forward.
- In the 33 games from January 1st until his injury on March 18th, Dion Waiters averaged twenty-points per thirty-six minutes. His PER climbed to 16.3, his Offensive Rating hit 104, with usage of 26.6 (those numbers thanks to the esteemed Randall Cooper of laughingcavs.com). Once Dion quit routinely hoisting off-balance jumpers and instead persistently attacked, his age-21 performance compares reasonably with several other recent guards**. A list includes: James Harden – 16.4 PER, 119 orating, 19.5 usage; Eric Gordon – 14.1 PER, 107 ORtg, 21.5 usage; Russell Westbrook – 17.8 PER, 105 ORtg, 25.7 usage; Dwyane Wade (age 22) – 17.6 PER, 101 ORtg, 25 usage; Jamal Crawford, 15.3 PER, 102 ORtg, 21.5 usage; J.R. Smith – 15.6 PER, 112 ORtg, 22.8 usage. Not saying he will match all of those guys, but the Dion we saw in 2013 performed admirably.
- The franchise picks top-six in this year’s draft and continues to carry-forward the NBA’s most future draft picks.
- Their salary cap situation is as favorable as any team in the League, with no guaranteed contracts in 2014 – 2015.
Give Mike Brown’s defense one year, stir in 60 games of Varejao, sign four respectable bench players this off-season, and let’s play ball. I want to see these youngsters do work next year.
Certainly in my scenario, the team’s second high-profile addition (after Mike Brown) is the guaranteed top-six pick. So who are my early favorites for the Cavs?
- Nerlens Noel sits atop everyone’s draft board. Big and cat-quick, he is a fierce shot blocker that will play the entirety of his rookie season at 19 years old. Considered an amazing athlete with a great attitude, the only thing more outstanding is his flat-top. Either he or Tristan would need to develop a jumper.
- Here’s the thing about Otto Porter…what are the odds that he is available regardless of where the Cavs pick? Because I have talked myself into some Otto Porter. The two teams with worse records than Cleveland, Charlotte picked MKG last year, and Orlando traded for a 2011 (Tobias Harris) and 2012 (Moe Harkless) first-round small forward. So they are both out of the running, right? There is a 40% chance that a different team jumps all three of these squads. In that scenario, three of the maximum five picks ahead of the Cavs aren’t picking Porter. Draftexpress ranks the Otto-bahn at sixth, and David Thorpe argues for Trey Burke at #1. If Porter was a near-lock to Cleveland in the top-five, I would be stoked. I noted on Friday that Kevin Pelton’s projections consider Porter to be the second-most successful rookie. Turning twenty in June, he is younger than freshmen Ben McLemore and Anthony Bennett. A box-score stuffer, he posted a nightly line of 16 points, almost 3 assists, 7.5 rebounds, 1 block, and nearly 2 steals on 48 / 42 / 78 shooting. Questions abound regarding his ability to be the go-to guy, but Cleveland doesn’t need that anyways. A big, no-nonsense wing that rebounds, moves the ball well (of 94 small forwards in draftexpress’s database, his Pure Point Rating ranks fifth), plays defense, and knocks down jumpers? Yes, please. That is almost the prototype of the small forward to place amongst Irving, Waiters and Thompson.
- Described as a gym-rat, and universally acknowledged as the NCAA’s best-wing defender last year, Victor Oladipo finds himself third on my list. According to draftexpress, nearly two-thirds of Oladipo’s shots come at the rim; his jumpers are typically of the catch-and-shoot variety. Is Tom Crean preaching an all threes and layups diet, or is Oladipo a student of basketball efficiency? Converting 60% of his field goals, the young junior averaged 14 points with an impressive offensive rating of 122 (best on this short-list) on respectable 22% usage. Not a player that creates well off-the-dribble, fortunately like Porter, this isn’t what the Cavs are lacking. A relentless defender that can shut-down the opponent’s best perimeter player, knock down open-shots, and finish spectacularly…checks enough boxes for me.
- Starting here, the Cavs start facing interesting positional dilemmas. Anthony Bennett traditionally gets assigned to power forward, just like our boy Tristan (he’s also Canadian. Are the Canucks going to be an absolute international force in the 2020’s?) A knock on Bennett is his height of 6’ – 7” in shoes. On the bright-side, he is an uber-athlete, capable of handling the ball with both hands, and also knocking-down 38% from long-range. Tallying a 16 & 8, with PER of 28 as a freshman facing a reasonably difficult schedule, if desired, could he pair with Thompson? Would this be the best all-Canadian front-line ever? Can the Cavs sign Tiago Splitter and trot-out an all Brazilian / Canadian front-line next year? I lost focus there…let’s just answer the first question. I say yes; on Wednesday I watched Oklahoma City play a line-up of Russell Westbrook, Reggie Jackson, Derek Fisher, Kevin Martin and Nick Collison. That’s the NBA’s second-best team…playing three point-guards at once…in the playoffs. Teams are pushing boundaries. If Bennett proves his shooting is legit, he and Tristan could play twelve minutes per night together as a small, fast tandem. Given his limited-height and outstanding athleticism, if the team employed a center with passing skills, could Bennett play small forward for twelve minutes a night? In the last five years, the Lakers showed that championships can still be won by “going big”. Anyways, if bad lottery-luck besets the Cavs, snagging Bennett as consolation appeases me.
- I am putting Alex Len at number five, but at this point, I start getting less excited and would have to think about trading down-or-out (edit: or pushing hard to move-up and snag Porter); maybe another team is mega-excited about Trey Burke. The Ukranian Maryland sophomore turns twenty in June. A legitimately long seven-footer, he receives praise for him nimble movement, quick feet, and above-the-rim play. His block rate ranked fourth in the ACC, where he finished with 12 points and 8 rebounds on 57% true shooting. ESPN lists his ceiling as Zydrunas, a 16 & 8 guy and two-time All-Star; also a player with great familiarity in Cleveland. Of course, Len’s floor is Darko Milicic. My concerns begin with a potential lack of aggressiveness from him; his defensive rebounding rate ranks ninth of eleven centers that draftexpress expects to see selected this year. And while his teammates deserve much blame, what sort of top-notch second-year center prospect doesn’t lead his team to the NCAA tourney? Forging towards an exit in the NIT semifinals, Len averaged 11 points, 7 rebounds and 4 blocks. He needs to keep getting stronger, and if he reaches Ilgauskas’ level, there are certainly worse outcomes from number five picks.
- Going six-deep, and ignoring Trey Burke (don’t need Kyrie’s back-up in the top-five), Ben McLemore assumes the worst-case scenario for Cleveland’s lottery pick. Not that “worst-case” is a bad thing when talking the better-half of the lottery. A gravity-defying highlight factory, he also canned 42% from deep (50 / 42 / 87); his sweet stroke draws comparisons to Ray Allen. Despite this, he draws a rep as not possessing the killer-instinct; over his last six collegiate games in the Big Twelve and NCAA tourneys, he averaged 12 points on 45% from the field, with nine total assists against fifteen turnovers. My inclination is that he is a complimentary player, not a star, and this freshman is only nine months younger than Oladipo, a junior. On offense and defense, a reasonable goal for McLemore would be to reach Oladipo’s level in nine months…hence, the Hoosier at #3 and the Jayhawk at #6.
That’s it for today. Hopefully the Cavs can pick Porter in June, sign-up a solid bench in July, then start rolling in October.
** – In 2011, Basketball-reference published an article equating offensive rating with usage. Based on that research, and normalizing each of these shooting guards to 25 usage, their respective Offensive Ratings at age 21 were: Harden, 113; Smith, 110; Westbrook, 105.5; Waiters, 105 (after January 1); Gordon, 1o3.5; Wade, 101; Crawford, 98.5. Waiters needs to keep working on his shot, his body / explosiveness, and watching a lot of tape of himself while off-the-ball on offense & defense. And he will be just fine.
What are the latest rumors on me? I wouldn’t mind taking a 1 year contract, team option for 2 or something. Throw me some dollars and see if I can live up to my #1 hype!
Re-reading my message my tone is harsher than i meant it to be and i apologize. My best friend is a knee surgeon so I know a decent amount about knees just from being around him, and it’s been an ongoing battle for me to convince people that Noel’s injury is, in fact, completely (or *almost* completely) unrelated to Oden’s injury. I know you weren’t comparing Noel to Oden, I just instinctively lash out at people who use Noel’s injury as a reason not to draft him, because they’re usually ignorant to the difference between ACL surgery and microfracture surgery… Read more »
Corey, you do realize Muhammad is not that athletic? I’m fine with him as the second first round pick, but how much does Corey Maggette help his team, even in his prime?
Someone will definitely take Marshall as an early 2nd round pick, Tony.
I feel as if we come away with Corey Maggette 2.0 that is not the worst outcome in this draft Nate.
Here is a name to watch if the Cavs get Porter with their 1st pick and take a Center at 19 – Lucas Nogueria. He is a 7ft Brazilian that is supposedly every bit as athletic as Noel. With Varejao on the team he could help teach Nogueria the way to play.
Another athletic 7 footer I wouldn’t mind them drafting in the 2nd round is Zeke Marshall from Akron. Akron was the only team in the NCAA to hold teams to shooting under 50% at the rim, that is largely due to Marshall and his work down low.
My biggest worry on Bazz? That he’s Corey Maggette 2.0.
@Gordon, Point taken on the statistical significance of the article. I was more making a point about “never say never” or “always.” But I will say your statement of “if you get ACL surgery immediately after the injury like Noel did and rehab properly, you come back with a new ACL that’s stronger than the one you had before, and no cartilage damage whatsoever” contains a couple of gigantic “ifs” also, cartilage is often damaged at the same time as the ACL when the injury occurs.
How many super athletic small forwards are there in the league realistically? He might be an inch or two short but he’s stronger than most at the position and that could create matchup problems on the other end as well. I’m not saying I hope the Cavs draft him, but I don’t understand the Haters Ball on Bazz. My biggest worry with him is that he seems to be a selfish player.
I have mixed feelings about Shabazz. Can he get his shot off as an undersized and not-super-athletic small forward? What does the age issue say about his honesty and character? Who will he guard? Is he another example of the “Ben Howland theory” ala Westbrook, Love, Collison, and Holiday? I love the motor, but everything else worries me. I would only take him if he fell.
@Mike You betcha. Bazz has talent. If he’s 19 or 20 it doesn’t really matter that much in mind. If he fall past 8 someone is going to get tremendous value for him.
This isn’t an amazing draft but it’s not half as bad as it’s being built to be. 2011 was a broadcasted as being one of the worst drafts of the decade and the class has been decent. Kyrie was largely panned and he’s a franchise player.
If we could bundle the 19th, 31st, and 33rd pick for Shabazz and the 13th pick I might do it :P
I haven’t read all of the comments and this may have been discussed, but I’m curious to see who would be interested in picking up Shabazz if he fell to the late lottery. If the Cavs could package the 19th, 31st, and 33rd picks for Shabazz at 13 would you do it?
i do love the idea of trading them their own first round pick in a Gasol package also.
I brought up Gasol being an amnesty candidate a couple weeks ago, but it’s looking more and more like it’s gonna be Kobe. Firstly, they can’t trade Kobe. Pride aside it’s tough to match $30 million. Gasol still has some value but I can’t imagine they would get a ton for him in a trade. I wouldn’t offer anything more than Zeller, a little cap filler and a future first round pick. LA could also reset their repeater luxury tax if they get under the cap in 2012-13. It’s not just the luxury tax savings for next year. We’re talking… Read more »
@Gordon You got to remember that Ben Howland makes players look terrible, everything else you said is somewhat true, but always remember that
@Nate Ok I like alot of what you said and you obviously have much more experience with ACL’s then i do which is good for me I guess. Were down to I just think your overrating Olynik which could be figured out by the draft process, I just dont think he will score at a high percentage over a player like Noel or Gobert or long athletic guys for instance so in practices they may see that. I really like comps. so I would say hes a more agressive Nikola Vucivic – the rebounding and toughness (which is alot of… Read more »
McLemore over Shabazz all day, not even a second thought. I want nothing to do with Shabazz. He’s older than he let people think, and the production isn’t there for anything other than scoring. No defense, no passing, no rebounding. It would be a negative to have a chucker like him on this team.
Character issues, a chucker, a guy who isn’t a team player? NO THANKS.
Come on, Nate. The results in the article aren’t statistically significant (the 95% confidence interval is 10.5% +/- 12.5%). Even if Noel does get hit by the full -10% (which due to his age, he shouldn’t, according to the article), he’s still easily the best prospect in this draft. And medically speaking, the situation you’re talking about it totally different. If you play basketball on a weakened ACL for any amount of time you’re going to do cartilage damage. But if you get ACL surgery immediately after the injury like Noel did and rehab properly, you come back with a… Read more »
Nathan, ACL injuries ARE related to cartilage injuries in that if the ACL is unstable, you will tear up all the cartilage in your knee. I’ve had my right knee scoped twice, and major ACL surgery was performed. The biggest danger with ACLs is that they don’t heal 100%, and you end up like Michael Redd, Penny Hardaway, Darius Miles, or me. Furthermore, people with ACLs injured once show a propensity for it happening again to the other leg. But, in fact some players come back as better players after ACL because they have nothing to do but shoot, and… Read more »
@Grover agree with everything you said, Noel is Stick thin, and will have trouble with Andrew Bynum, Big Baby Davis, and the Zach Randolphs of the world… but there really aren’t that many back to the basket players anymore, which is good for Noel
He doesn’t have any range on his shot, but has a much more visually pleasing shot then Tristan does, release, tempo, etc. if that counts for anything
@Nate, I know im late to the bashing this ridiculous list #3 Kelly Olynik – A bigger defensive liability then Zeller, Guy played nobody this year #4 Shabazz Muhamad – Cant shoot off dribble, is small and not very athletic for the position #5 Rudy Gobert – Over Noel is insain, I like him at 19 but hes a very similar player to Noel just 1/2 the athlete #6 Nerlens Noel – Ive watched every game he played in college, he is more athletic then Anthony Davis, Period, hes not the offensive player but is a better defender, he was… Read more »
For those who don’t know, ACL injuries are completely unrelated to cartilage injuries (like Oden and Bynum have). ACL tears heal completely almost 100% of the time and have no effect at all on future knee health
I think there needs to be a bit of a reality check on Noel. Noel is a stick-thin, very athletic, very heady and opportunistic defensive player. I think Noel can in fact become a top-NBA defensive player. I think the most comparable celing for him would be Kevin Garnett, who himself is one of the NBAs top defenders for a decade. Now, let’s talk about what that means. Garnett is a legit 7-footer, an excellent one-on-one defender, and a very good help defender and rebounder. But what he is NOT, is a stick-him-in-the-paint-and-scare-everyone-away type of defender. Due to Garnett’s slight… Read more »
Anyone else high on Livio Jean-Charles? I know it’s just a one game sample, but in recent history guys that have dominated the hoops summit have at least flashed some potential at the grown man’s game (although the jury is still out on biyombo)
Nate,
er………..um……..uh…….
Wow. Between Shabazz, Bennett, McLemore, I don’t think Shabazz is BPA. Plus, there have been questions about his effort on D. But, as you hinted at, put him in place of Gee and give him the same open looks and the Cavs offense becomes much more effective. Plus he’s starting, whereas Bennett and McLemore are rotating in.
In that scenario, I can see picking Shabazz.
Cody, what if Noel, Porter, and Oladipo are all gone?
@ SwIrving – I would only endorse Shabazz, if they landed Noel with their first pick. Between Shabazz and Porter, I’d take Porter.
@ Kevin – Tony Allen is a UFA. But he’s also 31. Would you want the Cavs to make an offer?
On a side note: has anyone else been disappointed with Denver this playoffs? I know Steph Curry has gotten hot, but as a team they’re allowing 55%. Up from 44% in the regular season. Before the playoffs, I would have given them an outside at winning the west.
You’re right on the Lakers/Heat pick going to the Suns this year and not next year, SwIrving. I didn’t think the Suns would be stupid enough to not roll it over for better picks, or try to get it in 2014. My bad there. As for Shabazz, I base my findings off nothing more than a gut feeling that he was just in a horrible situation this year. He still has a 6’11” wing span, a developed NBA body, rebounding ability, and a very nice mid-range/post game. What I envision when I envision Shabazz at the 3 for the Cavs… Read more »
Nate,
I can dream though.
Korey, we’ve only had one #1 pick. Are you foreshadowing what the powers that be have up their sleeve this year?
Cody, I want no part of Shabbazz. I have some sort of unhealthy bias against dudes who can admittedly put the ball through the basket but don’t do anything else. Carmelo = Most overrated player in the NBA in my book. That said, yes, if there is a guy sitting there at 12-16 who we really like, I would have no problem trading our bottom 3 picks for them. As far as not wanting to give to many minutes to rookies, there was no way Zeller should have gotten the minutes he did last year, and the 2nd first rounder… Read more »
KyrieSwIrving,
Trading the 19th pick is mortgaging the future? If another team is willing to trade a known 3-and-D type wing in an attempt to get younger, cheaper, etc, I think it’s a fine move to make.
Charlie, best/only way to do that is try to get Noel and he sits out the yr rehabbing…. No way the powers that be let us have 3 #1 picks in 4 years
I would love to be able to get withey with that second pick. If we can get Otto + Withey from this draft, I’ll be quite happy. Noel scares the crap out of me and I think I’d rather have porter. Big dudes with bad knees have real problems, especially when their game is based off of athleticism. I’d still probably rate him second, just cause he has the highest upside in the draft, but I just fear he’ll never reach his potential. The guy is really raw anyways, and if you combine that with limited court time from injury…… Read more »
KyrieSwIrving, I won’t say either of us is right or wrong, but it appears we disagree. Let’s say minutes distribution for next year would be: Kyrie – 35 Tristan – 32 Dion – 30 Porter – 25 Zeller – 15 That’s nearly 60% of the team’s minutes going to the youngsters. There will be plenty of future opportunities to roll the dice on more youth (beyond the two second-round picks this year). Next year, I think the team needs to make a push for the playoffs and allot the other 40% of those minutes to known, veteran commodities. Like Pau… Read more »
Nate, Pheonix gets the Heat pick we are giving the lakers this year, not the lakers pick next year. Either way, Lakers I don’t believe can trade their first round pick next year because of the NBA rules saying “you can’t consecutively trade away first round picks” or however it is worded. I still have to disagree whole heartedly that we don’t have room for a #19 pick. Zeller would have been a lot better this year if he was playing 12-15 minutes a night, he was forced into duty against starters from injuries and a lack of depth. I’m… Read more »
I’m not really a fan of Olynyk because it seems like championship contenders always have elite or at least above-average defensive players down low, and Olynyk just isn’t that guy. 1.1 blocks per game is pretty poor for a 7 footer, and 1.7 assists is mediocre too. We’re not so desperate for instant offense that we take a guy like that. Give me a defensive role player like Dieng or Withey instead. As for Muhammad, I think he’s the worst fit possible for us. With two guys who can create in Irving and Waiters, we need to be thinking high-efficiency… Read more »
@ Tom
Regarding your earlier post: Yes, the Cavs are pretty thin and could use the second round picks to add to the bench. However, some of those needs could be filled by free agency. They certainly have the cap space. If they could package 19, 31, and 33 to swing for the fences with Muhammad, as SwIrving alluded to, it’s not a bad idea. Bear in mind that they have 3 second round picks in 2014. I’m sure they won’t use all of those 2nd round picks between both drafts.
I would love to see the Cavs trade a pick this year for an extra shot at the Andrew Wiggins lottery next year. We need to trade picks from this year to a lottery-bound team for next year so that we can climb out of the lottery ourselves but still have a shot at landing a superstar.
Oladipo and Noel look like NBA players to me. I worry about Porter, some because his shot is a bit unorthodox and he looks a bit slow getting it off.
Typo alert. Heel/heal.
I like the analysis, though. Save fro the Scott/Brown thing.
@ Nate Smith
I was being a little facetious with that one. But I didn’t realize that pick was accounted for.
I am still banking on the Lakers amnestying Gasol. $15 million bid for his one year.
Cody,
I would like to modify my answer to your previous question: Pau Gasol, Varejao and Tyler Zeller will be the centers next year.
Boom!
NO ONE is going to be giving away picks in next year’s lottery without top 5 protections. Besides, the Lakers pick next year is destined for Phoenix.
If there is a team that I could see doing something like that it’s the Lakers. Are they really going to blow it all up? they have Nash/Kobe under contract beyond next year.
The details of Euro contracts are byzantine and murky. One site I read said he had two months left on his current deal.
Maybe CG could offer #19 and #33 for the Lakers 2014 unprotected first round pick? I think there’s a decent shot they miss the playoffs next season. They probably wouldn’t take it, but hey, it’s worth a shot.
@Cody – I think it makes sense to do everything possible to try and get a lottery pick or 2 in next years draft.
Anyway, watch Giannis Adetokoubo, Lucas Nogueira, and Sergey Karasev. I’m betting at least two of them move ahead of Saric. Nogueira has a chance to move into the lottery for a team that wants to swing for the fences. Karasev would be a very intriguing prospect at 19 if the Cavs go big early.
As of today, I’m all about Sergey Karasev, and definitely like him better than Saric. He may be the one guy that makes me re-think my “the team doesn’t need two rotation rookies” stance.
I am not sure of a good source for determining if a player is under contract with their Euro team (aka, would be stashed), or if they are immeidately available to come to the NBA. Anyone have thoughts on this info?
Here’s my problem with Noel: for a player who has a game predicated on athleticism: a knee injury is a big problem. Does he end up like Darius Miles? Brandon Roy? I have to weight the injury. Yes he has potential. But we have no idea how much the injury is going to affect him. It’s a serious soft tissue injury. It’s probably the worst common injury in the NBA before microfracture surgery.
Well, I’m throwing out some countervailing ideas because I think the groupthink on Noel and other prospects has reached epic proportions. Olynik at #3 is basically: of all the players in this draft, who has a chance to become an all star? Olynik, Shabazz, Oladipo, Porter, Noel, and Gobert. That’s probably the list. Maybe Giannis Adetokoubo, Lucas Nogueira, and Sergey Karasev, but I don’t know much about them. As for Noel, I’m weighting the injury. I also just have a gut feeling on Shabazz: he had a terrible year in a ridiculous spotlight. Get him on a team where he… Read more »
Nate,
I try to shy away from upperclassmen centers. It is a general rule of thumb that I had before last season, but then I talked myself into Tyler Zeller anyways (still have my fingers-crossed for good luck on that one). I need to look at Olynyk more…will I talk myself into another 22-year old center prospect? Only time will tell.
@Nate
People like Noel because his ceiling is perennial defensive player of the year. Although UK missed the tournament they were in when he got hurt so he can’t be blamed. The ole miss game showed how he could control a game blocking shots and his quickness , timing, and lateral movement have people thinking about him being a decade long anchor for an nba defense. I think porter could be better but people like Noel because he’s a difference maker on defense and not to many prospects get that title.
Kevin –
Just curious as to why you’re OK with bringing in two rookies as second rounders but don’t want another top 20 pick? Obviously, that top 20 pick would have more value on the trade market than the 2nd rounders but that’s only because you would conceivably be getting a fringe starter at that position (hopefully).
Doug McDermott’s not coming out, JHill. Staying for his Senior Year. I think he’s going to be ok:a more physical Kyle Korver.
Whoops just googled him and it appears he’s staying.
Gotta agree Tom here. I think teams can use second round picks to find cheap specialty guys that are perfect bench compliments. However, if the right trade scenario falls into the Cavs lap they shouldn’t hesitate to move up from 19.
I get that it is really taxing to have all of these 1st, 2nd, and 3rd year players and build a team around that but that is how you build a squad without sacrificing cap space. Granted, if they end up only picking once in the upcoming draft, I won’t be terribly upset.
Was just wondering what you guys thought of that forward from Creighton.
The NBA draft is the greatest exercise in groupthink since political parties. Why does everyone love Noel? Because he got hurt before we could watch him stink in March. Then the rest of these guys get “ranked” and a groupthink estimation of value ensues. One thing I’ve been thrilled about with Grant is that he has not let himself fall into this trap. Waiters and Thompson definitely weren’t the groupthink picks, and I’m hoping Grant is similarly intelligent about the way he picks here. My top players are based on the way the NBA plays now: you need wings who… Read more »
Nate, I’ll be looking forward to your draft articles. It’s fun to look back after a couple of years and see how smart (and stupid) the ideas were. I’ve just started really thinking about the draft, but personally, I’m not high on Shabazz. For teams that aren’t the Cavs, I am really high on Trey Burke (he would fall in my top five). Kelly Olynik at #3? Gobert over Noel? Interesting. At least we agree on Porter. Tom, I disagree about packaging to move up; I really like Porter. Like you, I hope the 31st and 33rd picks can be… Read more »
Kevin – I think it’d be alright to move one of the picks, as you describe. I just don’t think this is the draft to put all the eggs in one basket. Not in a weak, but deep draft, and not by a team that only have 6 rotation players.
In other words, I don’t think it’d be smart to package all 4 picks to move up to #2 to take Noel or Porter.
Tom, There are so many variables pre-lottery as non-insider journalists, it is hard to have a concrete position on exactly what could or should happen. So, yeah, I agree with you. Hopefully the team isn’t picking sixth. If Cleveland ends up 2 – 5, and in a scenario where #5 plus #19 = Porter at #3, that would be awesome. In a previous article, I mentioned an ideal scenario of drafting the lottery pick, dealing or stashing #19, and picking next season’s 14th and 15th men in the second round. In a vacuum with one-thousand variables…that is still what I… Read more »
I’ve been arguing with Nate for a half hour now about his list.
I just want everyone to know that McLemore and Zeller (I’ve seen them as high as #1 and #2 respectively in a few mock drafts) are not missing because of an oversight. He really hates them that much.
@ Kevin “if the team can get Porter and trade #19 for a reliable, veteran bench presence, then I will be quite content.” Would you be OK with Zeller and Varejao as the centers? Even with Mike Brown, this team will need someone in the middle who can erase other players mistakes on D (even if they don’t block the shot, at least challenge it enough to make it difficult). Zeller doesn’t seem like that type of player, and as great as Andy is, he is not a rim protector. Drafting Porter makes complete sense. But, IMO, they need to… Read more »
KyrieSwIrving, A veteran with a better contract can be obtained via trade instead of free agency. If the plan is to stash-a-rookie at #19, either in Europe or deep on the bench…maybe. If the plan is to make a move forward next year, then giving significant minutes to two rookies, two second-year players, and two third-year players just doesn’t seem advisable. Maybe you want to relegate Zeller to 12th man status? Also, if the team hits on too many draft picks in a short timeframe, at some point, they will need to let one walk anyways due to luxury tax… Read more »
Kevin, we still need to hit home runs as much as possible. What kind of veteran can we get with a #19 pick that we couldn’t just sign in free agency? If its the right name, sure, I’d be fine with it. But lets not get rid of the 19 pick just for the sake of doing so. You can find serge ibaka’s and rajon rondo’s well within that range. Its rare, yes, but we have the cap space to fill out a competent vetaran bench, we shouldn’t be blowing assets to do that unless there is something exceptional out… Read more »
Seems to me that that this draft is not one to package picks to move up. This draft is being billed as deep, but few all-stars and probably no franchise-cornerstones. The Cavs are one of the thinnest teams in the NBA, and they have less than 6 players under contract after this season. They need all sorts of help. In order, I’d rate their needs as: Starting Defensive Juggernaut Center that blocks shots (Noel) Starting Small Forward that can pass and hit 3 pointers (Porter) Backup Point Guard 3 and D 6th man Backup Big that Spaces Floor (Stretch 4… Read more »
@ Adam
“The Draft becomes much simpler if we select Porter with our first pick because there are many more Mid First Round pick centers available then their are Wings”
Very true. My preference would be for Dieng or Adams. I wouldn’t Gobert if he was coming over for next season.
“I still support getting Noel and going back to get Shabazz intrigues me”
Agreed. But 19, 31 and 33 probably won’t be enough to pull that off. They’ll need to get trade up to 8 or 9.
I’m not sold on Shabazz, or the idea of adding two more high profile rookies next year. I’m a broken record, but if the team can get Porter and trade #19 for a reliable, veteran bench presence, then I will be quite content.
The Draft becomes much simpler if we select Porter with our first pick because there are many more Mid First Round pick centers available then their are Wings After Noel and Len, who will go in the Lottery, Dieng, Adams, Withey, Gobert, Jaiteh (No Idea why those last two are listed at PF) and Zeller and Olynyk (Both I wouldn’t draft if somebody paid me) But the Wings are much more difficult, unless you want to draft an unathletic Euro, Saric, Karasav, or Guys who have major weaknesses Tony Mitchell, Jamaal Franklin, Tony Snell? I still support getting Noel and… Read more »
Thanks for the cite. I am so very estimable.
If we got #1 or 2 I wouldn’t mind finding a team that will probably do terrible next year and trying to trade the rest of the picks this year and the extras next year for their 1st rounder in 2014. I agree that Noel, Porter, and Oladipo should be top 3. I really like any of them for the Cavs, but as I said worst case scenario of the lottery with the Cavs ending up at #6 means that 3 of the other teams would jump the Cavs making the odds of Oladipo being there at 6 even smaller.… Read more »
I don’t care who we pick, this season weighs much more on what we do in the free agency. That said, I like Porters all-around game and see him as a less defensive Igoudala type player.
Should the lottery fall as it currently stands (not that there is any chance of that happening), we should be OK getting Porter at #3. The biggest threats are Detroit, Sacramento, or Washington jumping us, who all have major holes at #3. If Was gets the top pick, the could probably take Noel; but that doesn’t work for Detroit or Sacramento, who both have centers. If either of them leapfrog the Cavs, we could very well not have a shot at Porter. Outside of that….if Phoenix or NO jump ahead (or both), we could still have a got shot at… Read more »
I’m for trying as hard as we can to get Noel, he helps cover up Kyrie’s bad D and we can find a competent 3 and D later (better than Gee), maybe trading back up to get Muhammad if he falls like it seems he is.
So, let’s say we get lucky and get the first or second pick, what do you think we do with the other three? Think anyone would be willing to take those and we could get another high pick somewhere in the top ten or so? I know we don’t really want four rookies being brought in this year.
I completely agree with the board of Noel-Otto- Oladipo. I also would be happy with any of the three. Also I think of McElmore as a poor mans Brad Beal, knock down shooter, will defender and finish well as long as he mentally commits to his game, and capable of being the third best player on a playoff team. I think I would move McElmore to 4th if I were making a board for the Cavs. I do disagree a bit on Alex Len. The guy moves really well, has touch, and should be capable defender/rebounder (not a standout but… Read more »
Joey Joe,
With Len, the Z ceiling was direct from an ESPN article. I don’t think they were comparing style-of-play, but instead results (16 & 8, two-time all-star). No one ever called Z nimble or mobile, so that is a hunch on my part.
I like comparing players across the years, as we gauge whether this guy is like this guy.
In their sophomore years (2 month age difference), Len had a 113 orating with 22.6 usage, while Brook Lopez had a 111 orating on 32 usage. As far as efficiently using a possession, they were similar, but Lopez used nearly 10% more plays for Stanford than Len for Maryland. That’s a pretty big difference. Len has some ground to make-up in that comparison.
Ugh, maybe so. I did read your findings about height being more predictive of defensive ability than wingspan or athleticism, which took the edge off my Oladipo crush (although I still love the idea that he could switch onto dangerous PGs like Westbrook). I really think he could be the ideal roleplayer for us offensively too, with how many transition opportunities he produces, how effective he is grabbing O-boards and finishing around the rim, and his new-and-improved jumpshot. I still like Porter over him, but I wouldn’t burn trade the Lakers pick and Oladipo for Porter.
Nathan, Glad to hear someone is reading my stuff at Hardwood Paroxysm. Honestly, the primary takeaway there is to not overemphasize the pre-draft measurement stuff; I will elaborate on that some this week (and will probably re-post at C:tB the next day). That said though, one of the trends is that tall small forwards like Porter are typically the NBA’s best two-way players (starting at the top with Lebron and Durant, obviously, but going pretty deep). I really like Oladipo and Porter. Like you said, I think Oladipo can guard three positions, which is great and would allow Kyrie to… Read more »
Kevin, i dont believe anybody will be against accepting 3 or 4 picks to allow us to move from 6 to 2, i dont think anybody else has as specific a need at SF as we do
Nathan, the gap between them is about 4 inches, understand im kidding, I know what you meant lol
Hmmm…I don’t see too big a gap between Porter and Oladipo, and Oladipo will almost certainly be available at 5, maybe 6. But yeah, in the unlikely scenario that Noel/Porter/Oladipo are unavailable where we pick, we’ll have to make some tough decisions.
Come on, Nathan. Otto Porter comments here…that’s plenty of separation between he and Oladipo.
Thank God there’s still someone out there who hasn’t fallen into the Len trap. He’s billed as a stretch big but never shot jumpers in college, has no post game, and isn’t a game changer on defense either. People saying he should be 1 or 2 on our board are thinking with their hearts (he’s the next big Z!) instead of their heads.
@Tony: Yes. Prob 31st too instead of 33 if that’s what it took.
Let’s say worst case scenario happens and the Cavs get the 6th pick, would anyone be up for trading the 6th, 19th and 33rd picks for the #1 for Noel or the #2 to guarantee Porter? I wouldn’t mind that at all. Get one of the top 2 players for the Cavs for 3 draft picks, sounds like a good deal to me.
I would trade the whole draft to move from 6 to 2. Not sure there would be takers.
“stir in 60 games of Varejao”
Unlikely.
As for standing pat and letting this starting unit go at it again next year, I’m ok with that, but that depends on what the rest of the East does, specifically Atlanta. If Atlanta manages to bring in Paul and Howard, and this is a real possibility, they have enough space to sign them both out-right while keeping Horford, the Cavs have to make a move, or else risk looking up at that team for the next 5 years.
Rich,
Limiting Varejao to 25 minutes (and never 4 games in 5 nights) hopefully provides extended longevity.
If Paul and Howard join forces in Atlanta, I am not sure that LaMarcus Aldridge helps. If anything that may lead me even more towards continuing to build with youth.
I like it, excited about it, hope for health next year, and agree with most, I have no idea why the lottery isnt tonight, rather then a month from now?
and If we dont have a chance to take Porter or Noel, I would hope we would package picks and move up, rather then down, just a thought
Adam,
I certainly agree about trying to trade up and snag Noel or Porter. Generally, I was treating this article as if that option didn’t generate itself on draft day.