Notes and Errata: May 5th, 2010
2010-05-05
-Got in late tonight because I was at Staples working the Laker game. While there, I had (roughly) the following conversation with a good friend who covers the Lakers:
Krolik: I can’t believe Pau got that tip-in after Kobe missed a playoff game-winner. All year long I’ve been hearing about how he doesn’t miss those, and when he does miss in the playoffs it gets tipped in.
Friend: Yeah, but he’s hit those his whole career.
-LeBron’s hit those too; you just don’t remember them because he got a layup or drew a foul a lot of those times. Not as dramatic.
-I feel like sometimes LeBron goes for that contact and doesn’t get it. Kobe at least always gets a shot up.
-(vague talk about game theory)
-The thing is, LeBron’s never proven he can hit those in big situations.
-What about game 2 in Orlando?
-Yeah, there was that.
-Or the end of game five in Detroit? See, you don’t remember it because it was a layup.
-I mean, Kobe had the one against Phoenix.
-That was a heck of a shot. LeBron had two game-winners in his first playoff series ever. (Krolik ends point before traveling gets brought up)
We both could have gone to our laptops and done research (both players, especially Kobe, have a great highlight reel of key playoff shots — not taking away from that) but he skipped straight to the crux:
-Okay, Krolik, gun to your head, who do you want taking that shot?
-Honestly? LeBron. Actually, reverse that. I’m not saying Kobe’s more likely to make the shot, but if LeBron misses everyone will talk about how I died because of how much of an idiot I was. If I die, I want everyone knowing that I perished for their wrongheadedness. If I go down, I want to take other people’s peace of mind with me. I won’t be able to argue probabilities once I’m dead. Plus, if LeBron makes the shot, everyone will say that the guy with the gun wouldn’t have taken my wallet if I picked Kobe.
-Man, Orlando looks good. I remember when the Cavs played defense nearly that well. That being said, remember what the talk was after the first two rounds of the playoffs last year.
-Yes, I have given thought to the fact Cleveland can’t defend points and will have to face the three best point guards in the conference if they want to get to the finals.
-Me and Jeff Clark feel more the same than different with regards to LeBron’s elbow. Although the “gate” suffix implies a scandal of some kind. I would try to give the elbow affair a better name, but it’s 3:35 in the morning and only I like my names for things anyways.
-The Jazz have no chance against the Lakers. LA shot 8-31 from outside the paint tonight and still won easily with the Jazz taking the ball to the basket every time.
-The good news is that the Celtics had a worse home record than road record this season. This series is far from over.
Alright guys, it’s late and I’m tired. Until tomorrow, everyone.
@BradleyH:
What is this internet you speak of?
Chip is acting like it doesn’t take 3 minutes to look up a statistic.
Chip, it’s 2010 bro. The internet is fast now.
Oh, and to comment on the actual blog post about the Jazz and the Lakers. The Jazz are playing as hard as possible, but when you’re short you’re short. That is why I can’t figure out why the Jazz are seriously talking about re-signing Boozer. Clearly, as long as the Lakers have Gasol and Bynum, which is the forseeable future, I can’t see the Jazz EVER beatingthe Lakers in the playoffs. So, there only hope is for someone else to beat the Lakers and I’m not sure if that is how you should go into the playoffs every year. To… Read more »
Kobe hits shots while the buzzer is going off. Because of that, it gets replayed over and over. LeBron hits shots that go in with 2 seconds left, because of that, no one remembers them. For instance, he hit mulitple game winners in his very firstp layoff series against the Wizards. None happened as the buzzer sounded, so people forget. Just because the buzzer is going off doesn’t make it any more of a clutch shot or any more game winning. They come up with these stats for a reason, it’s to take out the subjective of what you see… Read more »
All the stats show Lebron is much better than Kobe at the end of games, and much better when taking game-winning shots. But hell, the gut feeling of a Lakers fan is much more important than the record of what actually happened! Kobe did have an unusually good year this year.
“Kobe Bryant is the greatest closer of all time.”
FAIL. Didn’t close anything in 04 and08. Jordan never lost a FINALS
He is greatest closer of all time.
Chip: I don’t think anyone here is being defensive, I think people are trying to move the discussion forward by citing facts and statistics that are relevant to the discussion. It would seem relevant to your assertion that Kobe is the greatest closer of all time that he is actually (from 2003-2009, at least) pretty TERRIBLE. I really don’t really care if Kobe, Lebron, or Detlef Schrempf is the greatest closer ever. But if you want to argue for one of these guys, you ought to have something to back it up with other than “he just is” or “numbers… Read more »
@Squiggles:
I think you are being sarcastic, but if not…
That trade will be ridiculously tough to pull off because Bynum is a BYC.
None of us are upset that you said Kobe is a better closer than LeBron (at least, I’m not).
I do think you are ignorant in saying Kobe is a better closer than Jordan.
Its an opinion, sure. But so is me saying the 06 Heat are better than the 96 Bulls. Its an opinion NO ONE will agree with… that saw the both teams first hand.
What is my response? My response is, I’m glad I don’t take time out of my day to look up LBJ/Kobe/Jordan career percentages on game winning shots.
Funny… Cavs fans get extremely defensive when people say Kobe is the best closer. Laker fans get extremely defensive when people say LeBron is the best player in the NBA.
Relax, blog nerds. Just an opinion.
Kobe won’t be a great closer next year when Bosh has been traded to LA for Bynum. They’ll be destroying teams so handidly that the score will never be close enough to need “closing.” It’s this year AND bust–not OR bust. Cavs must win this year.
The response is likely one of the following:
A. Kobe is just the best. He just is.
B. [something about intensity or killer instinct]
C. Why you gotta be all up on LBJ’s nuts?
Chip, Kobe is 25% on game winners in 7 years. What is your response?
meant to say foul not fall and celtics, not series… geez my elbow hurts
Since this is an intriguing off day topic… I think the argument by Krolik still stands. Lebron doesn’t take the last shot, if the last shot isn’t the right one, if a jump shooter is open, if a layup and fall are possible. Those are far higher probability shots to take, so give it to Lebron. The most impressive last second shot I’ve seen in the last few years by a laker wasn’t even from Kobe, it was d. Fish on the spurs with 0 seconds on the board. I am constantly blown away by lebrons ability to not need… Read more »
@Chip:
If you honestly believe that, then you obviously never got to watch Jordan play.
@Chris:
Actually, Kobe hit the gamewinner in Boston. And to be fair, he has hit a lot of game winners this season.
The only reason people think Kobe is really clutch is because Kobe has hit a good number of spectacular buzzer-beaters throughout his career. What people forget is that Kobe also MISSES a lot of game-winning shots in the clutch. As the poster above me mentioned, the Kobe of 2003-09 was pretty horrible on last-possession-shots. Kobe is only performing well in the clutch THIS YEAR. Every year before this year, Kobe was pretty awful. He just took a lot of shots, so people remember the game-winners which he hit. Also, don’t compare Kobe’s closing ability to Jordan’s closing ability. Jordan is… Read more »
http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm
according to this from 2003 to 2009 Kobe was pretty much the worst player in the NBA you would want to have the ball on your last possession – shot 25% (14 of 56) and had only 1 assist vs. 5 turnovers. So the best strategy for the Lakers to win a game would have been to chuck the ball from midcourt before Kobe got his paws on it.
Chip, are you sure you and Colin are talking about the same guy?
He says Jordan, you say Jordon…I mean, that’s the only way your statements would be relevant.
I HATE Jordan, but he was the greatest clutch player of all time, without doubt.
“No need to analyze. The fact is, Kobe is a better closer than LBJ.”
Powerful reasoning.
Clearly I’m in the minority here on the elbow, but I think it’s the biggest issue for the Cavs right now. When LeBron has trouble with his handle under no defensive pressure, when he’s overwhelmed by double teams that he normally welcomes and exploits like Bernie facing a blitz, something ain’t right. It’s like the Colts going into a playoff game and finding that Manning can’t throw a short out, with all the fallout that has on the psyche of the rest of the team.
Who is this other Chris guy stealing my thunder? Last shot, I would much rather have Jordan or Larry Bird then Kobe JMO
I’ve heard of Michael Jordon — and yes, Kobe is a better closer than Jordon (in my opinion). By closer, I’m referring to the guy who you want with the ball in his hands for the last shot.
“C’mon son.” — Haha… okay…
Unless you’re talking about the other night, when Gasol won it off of his miss. Or in January when the Lakers lost by 1 to Toronto on Kobe’s miss. Or in February when he missed the game winner in Boston. Or in March when he missed a shot to tie in Orlando.
Anyways, how many have he hit this year?
“Kobe Bryant is the greatest closer of all time.”
Have you ever heard of a man named Michael Jordan?
C’mon son.
@Chip P Actually there are stats that show this year Lebron is a better closer than Kobe. Hitting game winners does not make you a closer, it makes you a clutch shooter, but the sample size for game winners isn’t very big. Kobe hitting 4 this year was more than I can ever remember anyone making. Also, Kobe is not the greatest closer of all time, that is just silly talk.
http://www.82games.com/0910/CSORT11.HTM
No need to analyze. The fact is, Kobe is a better closer than LBJ.
Anyone know what kind of stats, if any, are available on “game winning shots,” and how this is defined? It wouldn’t surprise me if Kobe hits more game winning shots than anyone, but I suspect he’s probably missed more than anyone as well. Doesn’t really tell you much except that he takes a lot of shots with the game on the line, and people have selective memory.
I’m a Cavs fan living in Southern California and I HATE the Lakers; however, being a basketball fan in general, I watch a lot of Lakers basketball. Kobe Bryant is the greatest closer of all time. If you would pick LeBron over Kobe for the last shot of the game, you really have to be on drugs or just a dillusional, obsessive Cavs/LBJ fan. Kobe probably has more game-winning shots this year than LeBron has in his entire career. I’m not a numbers freak so I’m not really sure. In any case, of course I am sweating about Friday and… Read more »
Cavs in 5. Book it.
Friday scares me.
In order for my confidence to be restored I need to see a greatly revived Cavs team. I need to see them take it to the Celts in the garden and win, even with the Celts playing well. I think we have arguably more talent than any other team, and for god sakes we need to utilize it. Mike Brown needs to see where our advantages are against an aging Celtics teams, and capitalize on them. If that means cutting PT for big name vets (Shaq, Williams) then so be it. The sluggish complacency that marked game 2 needs to… Read more »
Also – the point I was making with “Water Elbow” is that it would make no sense, just like Elbow Gate makes no sense.
The only reason I would actually support saying Waterelbow is to make fun of Elbowgate. They should just say “the elbow controversy” or “the elbow scandal” in my opinion.
But whatever, I’m insane. Can the cavs please win again so I can stop wasting my time on rubbish?
I am against affixing -gate to anything to denote a scandal, but clearly I am overwhelmingly outnumbered on that trend. Sorry for the following history that everyone knows, but in case someone doesn’t: The original -gate was of course Watergate. It was named after the Hotel that some people broke into at the orders of the Nixon administration, to steal strategy documents regarding the upcoming election from the democratic party. In the ensuing scandal, the president was implicated and eventually Nixon had to resign in the face of certain removal from office. SO THE POINT IS…Water-Gate was NOT a scandal… Read more »
That picture freaked the hell out of me when I realized what I was looking at.
Gun to my head, who do I want to have the ball? Lebron. Because he is always looking for the best way to get the ball into the basket. Sometimes that is a drive to the basket with or without contact. Sometimes it is a drive and kick. And then some times it is an off balance half court toss. Kobe on the other hand is always looking to shoot it himself. As for the Cavs/Celtics series, the next two games determine the fate of the Cavs in the playoffs. The Bulls winning one should have been a wakeup call… Read more »