What Would a Dion Waiters Trade Look Like?
2013-12-03First off, I am firmly in the camp that believes the Cavaliers should not trade Waiters. This year’s Cavs offense has been 10 points per possession better with Waiters on the court, and he is part of the most efficient Cavs lineup. Since ESPN reported that he was being hawked on the open market, his play has been stellar. Scoring has ticked up, but what’s been most impressive is how he’s improving his shot selection towards the mostly-layups-and-threes prescription and reducing his tendency to fire away from midrange.
You could examine this cynically and come to the conclusion that he is seizing the opportunity to audition for the rest of the league. There are some rumors (which feel pretty true given the soap opera of the past two weeks) about the iciness of his relationship with Kyrie Irving. Signs may point to his desire to get out of Dodge, but punting the most dynamic player of a frustrating Cavs team would be a mistake. He gets a lot of flak, mostly based on his propensity to shoot everything all the time and who the Cavs passed on to take him, but he has shown noticeable improvement. Waiters’ ability to slash through multiple layers of defense provides precious movement for a stagnant offense. There aren’t any other players on the team besides Kyrie who can impose their will to the degree Waiters can, regardless of his deficiencies. He likely has a way to go as a player, and it feels as if he is on the path to realizing this potential, be it as a sixth man (my money is on this) or as a starter.
A lot of athletes say winning cures all ills, and while this statement is more about papering over cracks than genuinely mending fences, there is an element of truth to it. Chemistry is vitally important, particularly now as NBA offenses grow more and more sophisticated by the year. If Waiters presents a chemistry concern, then that’s probably the biggest reason he sits on the trade block. However, jettisoning young players who are fiery and vocal too early misses the point that they can improve as teammates as well as players. Look no further than DeMarcus Cousins. Waiters doesn’t have nearly as far to go as Cousins did, and the Cavs starting to play better basketball would help a great deal in getting everyone back to feeling warm fuzzies. Teams will be looking at both who Waiters is and who they think he’ll be, and the Cavs need to consider both with any players to look at as well.
Which means that any trade involving him would need to replace that hypothetical uptick in future production. Getting into trade projections is a really messy business which can obfuscate the alchemical collective element of successful NBA basketball. However, it’s not an impossible thought exercise, and if the rumors are true, it can prove a valuable window into guarded lines of thinking about the team at organizational levels.
The three main names that have popped up in reports are Luol Deng, Evan Turner, and Iman Shumpert. All three are varying degrees of available and all roughly approximate the skillset of Waiters (less so in the case of Deng). However, there are problems with all three, and none would be sufficient return on the potential of Waiters.
Luol Deng: With a trade for Deng, the Cavs would be doubling down on this current core as ready to win now. Deng is a veteran former all-star, chiefly notable for his defensive abilities and shooting. The problem there is that Deng has been beaten into the ground by Tom Thibodeau, leading the league in minutes per game this year and in the top five in most other years. As John pointed out on Monday’s podcast, he is the league’s oldest 28-year old. From a basketball perspective, he would be a massive upgrade over all of Cleveland’s other starting small forwards. Mike Brown would love his defensive and shooting abilities, that is, if he could figure out how to use him properly. The biggest problem with Deng isn’t fit, but the future. His contract for 2013-2014 is for $15 million and he will be a free agent after it expires in June. Best case scenario for the timeline involving a Waiters-Deng swap is that he re-ups for cheap after he helps the Cavs to the postseason. Prospects are murky, and a far likelier case would end with Deng’s departure to a contending team in the summer. Lot of risk for a still-developing 21-year old.
Evan Turner: Turner’s fast start has turned him from someone the Sixers were looking to dump into a player the Cavs are maybe inquiring about for the 2012 fourth overall pick. He hasn’t replicated his college dominance at the pro level, but he does play a similarly balanced game. The problem there is that often ‘balanced’ is code for ‘nothing special’, which is true in Turner’s case. He can play all three backcourt positions, which again is a slightly coded way to say he isn’t going to present any significant problems for defenders at any of those three given matchups. In the podcast, your Cavs: The Bloggers referred to him as a Swiss Army Butter Knife, which, yep that’s right. On the Cavs, he wouldn’t make sense. I mean he would, in that he kind of approximates a collage of a few Cavs bench players, but he isn’t nearly as good a player as Dion, and is closer to his hypothetical ceiling. His numbers are up this year, but the Sixers play the fastest pace in the league (via Basketball Reference) and this tends to inflate numbers. Also, the Cavs struggle greatly with spacing and he is a career 31% shooter who averages 0.5 threes per 36. His improvement isn’t as substantial as it seems, not worth the risk.
Iman Shumpert: Nope. There is a Knicks effect in play, where Shump’s value is perceived as higher than it actually is because of how much exposure he gets. Plus on that team, anyone who plays competent defense will be lauded. His defensive rating was 214th in the league last year, sandwiched between J.R. Smith and Tornike Shengelia. Perhaps this is a bit unfair, since as the only decent (eye test) guard defender on the Knicks, he was asked to guard superior players. That being said, he is not the elite defender many perceive him as. Which is a problem because his offense is bad. He is a decent three-point shooter, but his career field goal percentage is 40% and he had negative offensive win shares as a rookie, a season in which he played the majority of his career minutes. His defense would be a blessing for a Cavs team that has regressed back to 21st in the league in defensive efficiency, but the tradeoffs on the other end would only exacerbate the issues of an very bad offense.
However, returns on trades involving Waiters are not necessarily restricted to this trio. These are just names of players the Cavs have inquired about. Now that Waiters’ availability has been made known, interested teams can pitch Cleveland, thus expanding the pool of available options. While I am pro-Waiters on the Cavs, there are a few dudes whose acquisition I would support. The problem is that most of these players are unattainable (Nikola Vucevic, Terrence Jones, Nic Batum) or slightly redundant (Reggie Jackson, Vucevic again, Steven Adams to a lesser degree). An intriguing option is the Magic’s Arron Afflalo, who is seemingly available as the Magic gear up for some serious tanking. He has been a borderline all-star this season, and would replicate Waiters shooting (he’s almost at 50%) and bring in slightly superior defending talent and playmaking ability. He is 28 and his contract has 3 years and $23 million left on it. Another player all Cavs fans would be thrilled to acquire is Milwaukee’s Giannis Antetokounmpo. He fits a position of need, can play defense but jajajajaja, no way that’s gonna happen.
So, assessing the options, at least the given ones reads as a big fat ‘DO NOT SELL.’ Waiters is still improving and any returns would be less-skilled, more crystalline players. We’ll have to wait and see what Chris Grant does.
Can’t trade Dion. In a year he’ll be imposing his will on defenses.
If he and Kyrie don’t figure it out by the end of the year, then you can trade him and get an impact player in return.
Interesting analysis, Demetrius. I will have to pay attention to the Rich Paul connection. Also, I certainly don’t think those guys are done changing their games at all. Read my “Great Expectations” article from last week. Dion is still practically a rookie. Kyrie is practically a sophomore.
And just because the Cavs kicked the tires on a couple trades doesn’t mean Dion’s going anywhere. The Cavs are known tire kickers.
@natet – if we going to critique discussions of unrealistic trades, why was a whole article written about waiters trades? there is no way he gets traded. grant values him a lot higher than anyone else. other than a broussard rumor that he requested a trade (a rumor refuted by people on the team), there is no reason to take this idea seriously. yet people keep talking about it and over analyzing it. make it stop.
Varejao is our best +/- player by far. Yes that’s off the bench but he’s done this year after year and he’s in our most used lineups. Sure I rank Kyrie and soon hopefully Dion ahead of him, that was a minor detail to my post that was more importantly considering him as our heaviest financial asset.
I don’t think anyone wants Dion gone, not putting much stock into Broussard’s sauces.
@nate I don’t expect any of these trades to happen for months so the Gasoline injury probably doesn’t play into it. There motivation would be to get a player who’s locked in to a less than 2 mil a year contract since they are financially limited. Koufas is a free agent at the end of the year and I doubt Memphis will be able to invest anymore money into their front court. Maybe we include a second rounder but I don’t think Memphis has any leverage. If they don’t trade him they lose him for nothing. Denver might trade Gallinari… Read more »
Varejao is our best player? What exactly do you base that on?
Dion probably only goes if it’s a “give up” firesale or as the 2nd piece in a really big trade. The disconnect between his value to the Cavs, his perceived upside internally and externally and finally the murdered trade value from Broussard’s report makes it too difficult. Also, it’s really disconcerting how the locker room drama came out. We know how close Broussard is to Bron’s team, and look at how quickly he got details that positively paint Tristan (represented by Rich Paul) and Kyrie… I’m not really fond of seeing that squad continually manipulate the media about goings on… Read more »
CG already made one inexcusable mistake in signing Jarrett Jack, there’s no way he adds more salary.
Deng is the most likely out of everyone as an expiring and a chance to “compete” this year but that’s not happening for Waiters.
Now this is just a guess but knowing Chris he would probably be tempted for Deng and Mirotic but it just doesn’t add up salary wise. Cant move Varejao easily because he’s still our best player.
Yeah those trades are wishful thinking, nothing more.
Rodney:
What motivation at all would Denver have to trade Gallinari for Andy, or Memphis to trade Zeller for Koufas? Also, Koufos is playing 21 minutes a game this season, and 33 a game since Gasol’s injury. There’s no way Memphis trades him. He’s a restricted free agent. Memphis has all the leverage. If CG had been smart enough to trade for Koufos last summer, when Denver was giving him away, that would have been nice. The only way Denver trades Gallinari is if his knee is totally shot. If that’s the case, then why would Cleveland want him?
@brian – totally agree. the PD is really terrible. the Browns have the same problem. Mary Kay is such a homer, conducts no analysis, and just regurgitates cliche stories week to week. it’s sad.
Completely agree that the quality of the cleveland.com has gone down hill. I brought up how bad MSB, MKC and Pluto are on here a year ago and people were singing their praises. Nice to see someone else notice it. I was actually upset when Windhorst left. He was a phenomenal beat writer and there aren’t many of his quality in any sport. He moved on to a bigger gig primarily covering a different team and he still gives better incite and breaking news than MSB about the Cavs. The reading public is migrating to places like this for team… Read more »
What about Irving for Rubio and 2 unprotected 1st. One this year and one in 2 years after Loves FA year. Just wait till February to maximize the draft pick value
Some trade targets I like (but not for waiters) are kosta Koufas in Memphis and Gallinari in Denver. I don’t know if Gallinari Dion and Irving could function defensively but it’d really help both of them on offense to have a great passing great shooting 3 next to them. Even if Gee can stroke it at a respectable rate he requires so much space to shoot because of how slow his release is that there is no need not to help off because Gee gives you so much time to recover. Koufas is a free agent this summer and doesn’t… Read more »
What I’m saying is that Kahwi and Barnes are good because they are on a team where defenses don’t have to care about him and with point guards who pass the ball freely.
Personally I think that Dion Waiters not being afraid to challenge our “superstar” (I use that term very loosely) is a great sign of leadership and his fire and desire to win. Everyone knows how annoying it is to play pick up basketball with a guy doing his best AI impression and doing it terribly. Imagine doing that night in and night out and being on TV while people took a dump on you because you weren’t lucky enough to be drafted onto a team with a health Curry and Bogut. Look how good Kahwi Leonard is, do you think… Read more »
Brian,
Totally agree with you.
MSB and JV appear clueless. TP is a good writer and a likable guy with slightly more knowledge than the average sports fan. He seemed sharper back when he was at the ABJ. BL is really good at times; he enjoys pushing peoples buttons.
The ABJ in general, and JL in particular, is much better.
Wait? There are three backcourt positions? Silly me, I thought there were only two.
Brian the PD is bad overall. Windy was good and pluto’s not bad but everyone else is terrible. Lloyd is the best beat writer in the area.
This is completely off-topic, I know. But am I the only one who’s dumbfounded by how poor the PD’s Cavs beat writers are? Mary Schmitt Boyer and her backup on the beat, Jodie Valadie, NEVER break stories. This can be excused from the backup, but the main beat writer should be well-sourced and break news from time to time, as Brian Windhorst did. MSB’s Sunday mailbag reads as if she’s on the Cavs’ payroll, as do notebook items like today’s on the allegedly underrated Alonzo Gee, who’s actually rated correctly by most of us (a game starter at small forward… Read more »
Great article. Like you, I don’t wanna trade Dion. If he really wants out, I say send him and a future first rounder to Milwaukee for Giannis. That guy has great potential, probably surpassing Dion’s and Tristan’s.
I like Afflalo, but ultimately, the moves the Cavs should make should be to either get better over the next three years. Aflflalo does that, but I wouldn’t move Andy, Waiters, or Irving to do it. Everyone else is expendable. If the Cavs want to get better, they should move some of their draft picks and expiring contracts for players.
Either way, the trade would signal a dramatic shift in the composition and goals of the roster. If they’d go after a veteran than they might be taking into account that there might be too much youth here and that there will be more on the way in future drafts. As much as Gilbert wants to make the playoffs, I don’t see him being as impatient as he’s been labeled.
I wouldn’t trade him unless mutiny started in the locker room and he turned into a genuine cancer. Waiters value and potential are lost on who they should have drafted and his fit with Kyrie. If he can be a supersub who still finishes games that’s not a wasted pick at all. His second year stats could be close to Harden’s (assuming Dion’s percentages continue to improve as they have off the bench). A Waiters trade would also be affected by salary and what their future priorities are (2014 cap room). The Cavs aren’t under the cap anymore. Deng would… Read more »
Don’t trade Waiters unless it is OBVIOUS that the Cavs are getting better value.
He’s been playing very well and he seemingly has a lot of potential. It’s astounding the lack of respect his game gets from the national media (David Thorpe, Bill Simmons, etc.).
I would consider trading him for Deng, but only if Deng immediately signed an extension with the Cavs.
Deep down inside, I can’t help but feel like if we were to trade Dion, we will end up watching him flourish elsewhere much to our collective chagrin.