Recap: Hawks 108, Cavs 89
2013-12-06The Cavs waited until the 2nd quarter to play and spotted the Hawks 17 points. Does anyone know if Kyrie Irving made his layups in warmups? Because he missed every shot he attempted in the game, including 3 free throws. Mike Brown yanked him with 7 minutes to go in the 3rd and he never returned, logging just 20 minutes. Coincidentally, the Cavs went on a 12-0 run after Kyrie was replaced.
1st Quarter: The Cavs started off making a concerted effort to get Bynum the ball in post. The Hawks game plan was to front the post and double team him. The Cavs used the diversion created by Bynum’s presence to generate some perimeter attacks. Unfortunately the guards started ice cold. Gee, Irving, and Miles began the game 0-5 0-7 0-10 oh of 14 zero out of everything!!11 0-16. Kyrie even missed a technical free throw. On the defensive end, the Cavs looked lazy and disinterested. Jeff Teague pump-faked Kyrie into the air, drove into the lane, and Kyrie just stood where he landed, conceding the score.
The Hawks used a drive and kick attack coupled with some back door cuts to get pretty much any shot they wanted. None of their jumpers were contested and they drained 5 threes in the first quarter. Anytime they missed Paul Millsap was around to clean up. I’ve long contended that Millsap is one of the most underrated players in the NBA. I desperately wish the Cavs would have gone after him in the offseason, especially after Atlanta nabbed him for 2 year and less than 10 million dollars a year. HIGHWAY ROBBERY. In the first quarter alone, he: scored on a reverse layup after driving past TT, dropped in a few floaters, drained a mid-range J, and swished a half-court heave to end the half after Jarrett Jack took a mindless long 2 with too much time left on the game clock. After one quarter, the Hawks led the Cavs 37-20.
2nd Quarter: More violence to start the second quarter, as the Hawks offense chugged along like a freight train (hope you are enjoying retirement, Joe Tait). On the two or three possessions where the Cavs actually played solid half-court D the Hawks just drained contested mid-range jumpers anyway. Halfway through the second quarter, the Hawks had made 22 of 36 shots, and 13 of them were assisted. The Cavs, on the other hand were 12 of 33, with an anemic 4 assists. Practically all of the Cavs baskets were Dion Waiters isolation pull up jumpers/drives and Andrew Bynum points in the paint. To their credit, both players have shown gradual improvement already this season. Waiters taking 17 footers off his own dribble drives used to be a recipe for disaster, but what can you say when a guy is just draining everything? Is it still a bad shot? After an uncharacteristically long benching, Kyrie Irving re-entered the game and continued to play terribly. He was bailed out by the refs on an air-balled floater and then clanked both free throws, bringing him to OH of SIX from the field and OH of THREE from the line. OH my GOD.
Dion Waiters single handedly kept the Cavs from scoring under 30 points in the first half. Think about this, Dion dropped 17 points in 17 minutes on 10 shots in the first half and the Cavs still trailed 63-43 at halftime. After a brief interlude of shot missing the Hawks went back to making uncontested layups, slightly contested putbacks, and more uncontested layups. Fun stuff.
This is real: Alonzo Gee, Kyrie Irving, C.J. Miles, Earl Clark, Anthony Bennett, Tyler Zeller, and Matthew Dellavedova: 0 – 20, 0 points. TT, Dion, Bynum, and Jack: 17 – 28, 43 points. The Hawks announcers described the half as the Varsity playing the JV.
Things reported at halftime: Tyler Zeller required stitches after getting cut around his eye in the second quarter. Kyle Korver set an NBA record for 90 consecutive games with a 3 pointer.
3rd Quarter: The Cavs started out the third quarter with a slightly better commitment to defense. The problem was they just refused to take good shots and clanked everything they threw up. (As I threw up watching) After a Jeff Teague 3 where no one even thought about closing out on him, the Cavs deficit became 29. Mike Brown called time, removed Kyrie Irving and Tristan Thompson, and the Cavs went on an 12-0 to cut the lead to 17 before Sweet Lou Williams (another sinister job by D Ferry) drained a 3 to stop the bleeding. Jarrett Jack, I’m convinced, is just going to shoot every time he gets the ball at the top of the key. But not until he has crossed the 3 point line. Another bone I have to pick with Jack: choosing to not close out on someone spotted up at the 3 point line is presumably due to fear of the dribble drive. Too often I see Jack choose to not close out on a three point shooter, instead, sagging, and then the shooter puts the ball on the floor and explodes by him anyway. Lou Williams did that in the 3rd. The Cavs closed out the quarter with some respectability on defense, holding the Hawks to just 5 points in the last 7 Kyrie-less minutes.
4th Quarter: The Cavs started the 4th with a Matty SUPER’Dova reverse layup, bringing him to +16 in 15 minutes for the game. Waiters, after a 6 minute period of brick-laying, got back into the bucket-column – canning a 3, and bringing the Cavs within 15. Then, SUPER’Dova hit a 3, and on the next possession, ran a 2-man pick and pop with Varejao. After Varejao’s miss, Matty SD did something I’ve never seen in an NBA game. Instead of tipping it back he made a fist and punched it into the backcourt, which is apparently a violation. I honestly had no idea that rule existed. Is it illegal in volleyball too? If so, I’ve been cheating all these years! The Cavs and Hawks traded buckets as Kyrie Irving continued to sit. Not a bad plan, as SUPER’Dova compiled a +18 in 17 minutes to Kyrie’s -19 in 20 minutes. Make it +20 in 18 minutes as Delly made a 20 foot floater. (what a weird dude) Then, Al Horford iced the game with back to back alley-oops as he just sprinted down the court and beat all the Cavs. Mike Brown called a rage quit timeout, and that’s where I stopped watching the game and started thinking about the Hawks offseason.
Thoughts on The Hawks/Cavs Offseasons: Earl Clark’s APM from 2011-2013 is -10.92. DeMarre Carroll’s is +2.8. Carroll was 3rd on the Jazz last season in Roland Rating http://www.82games.com/1213/1213UTA.HTM, even higher than Millsap. Speaking of Millsap, he’s been a plus minus wonder for some time now, posting an APM of +8.02 from 2011-2013. I consider Varejao a deal at less than $10 mil a year, and Millsap earns less. He’s also younger and never gets hurt. That these guys are excellent value is no secret, at least not to a bunch of bloggers. Nate and I both pined for Carroll on separate occasions. https://cavstheblog.com//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////?p=14954, https://cavstheblog.com//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////?p=19562. I assumed Millsap would command 13+ million a season so I didn’t lobby too hard for him, but I was still interested in the Cavs giving a look: https://cavstheblog.com//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////?p=17921&cpage=1#comment-35783.
Currently, Millsap is sporting a PER of 19.8, identical to his 2013, and 2011 seasons. Carroll, meanwhile, is at 13.1, so it’s not like he’s lighting it up. That is, until you compare him to Earl Clark, who makes almost twice as much money and is sitting at a PER of 9.6 and playing less than 20 minutes a night. (Carroll is playing 30). Tonight was a nice microcosm of what they bring to their respective teams: Clark, 2 points in 6 minutes with zero rebounds, zero assists, zero steals, zero blocks, and zero rebounds. And Carroll, 27 minutes, 10 points, 8 boards, 2 assists, 1 steal. Here is a look at my pre-season profile of the Hawks.
Final Thoughts:
This was a disappointing night for the Cavaliers. They beat themselves in the 1st quarter and were never able to move the needle much after that. They showed a total lack of aggression on defense throughout the first half and allowed Atlanta to get way too many easy baskets. Atlanta is a good team and played well, so this wasn’t the same kind of garbage fire like the Washington game a few weeks ago. Hopefully this is just a 2 steps forward, 1 step back kinda thing.
Positives:
-Waiters dropped 30 in 35 minutes on 20 shots. He looks pretty comfortable with a mid-range game. I still think he needs to be attacking the rim at every opportunity but it’s nice that he can stay balanced and drain the pull-ups when the paint is clogged. He played with a fire tonight.
-Bynum continues to impress me. Had he converted at his usual rate from the free throw line he would have had another monster box score. As it is, 20 points on 14 shots in 27 minutes with 13 rebounds, 2 assists and 2 blocks is pretty fierce.
-I’d love to see Matthew Dellavedova play well in a Cavs win. The Cavs lost by almost 20 and he was +13 in 26 minutes. He does a nice job initiating offense, he has a good feel for two man ball movement. He had 4 assists to only 1 turnover tonight.
Negatives:
-Kyrie Irving played the worst game of his career.
-Tristan Thompson has more success shooting floaters than he does put backs after offensive rebounds. I am at once astounded that Tristan has been able to completely re-invent his shot yet he still pump-fake-gathers under the hoop and leaps with the ball completely unprotected. It’s like tee-ball for defenders. He needs to realize he’s not Shaq or even Bynum and he needs some up and under moves or needs to learn how to either draw a foul underneath or kick the ball back out.
-Bennett played 9 minutes of zeros.
-Jarrett Jack didn’t play too badly, but someone is going to have a “heyjarrettjack…” website up before the season is over.
-Waiters and Bynum shot 22 of 34 and the rest of the Cavs 16 of 60. I doubled checked this for accuracy.
Irving isn’t a superstar.
There are a few in the NBA. James. Kobe, Durant. CP3. Over the course of their careers, Duncan, Dirk, Garnett, and Wade certainly quality. Parker has a finals MVP and Rose a regular season one. That’s the list for me.
Ok, now if we can just get Kyrie to have one of these games (tonight vs Clippers), and Dion to have yesterday’s game on the same night we’ll be ok.
I’ve wanted to trade KI since the All-star break last year because I thought he was over-rated and injury prone. He still capable of being good/great but not top 5 in the NBA. I also think point guard is the easiest position to find a good player at. People use to think Kevin Love wasn’t enough to get in return now there is little chance without Love demanding a trade that’d Minnesota would do it. Not that Utah would do it but would you trade KI for their draft pick right now. I would but that’s mostly because I think… Read more »
I’m upset because I’m tired of seeing my team’s “superstar” dribbling 20 times and still somehow be in the same damn spot, then he chucks up a highly contested long 2 he does this like 4 times a game. Or getting the inbounds and shooting a fadeaway long 3 with 2 guys on him instead of passing to WIDE open Dion Waiters (who he looks right at). No one on this team cuts and hasn’t for like 2 years. The three most active players are an undrafted FA rookie our “bust” Dion and AV. That’s it. Earl Clark just stands… Read more »
The meme going into this season was IF the Cavs stayed healthy, they COULD compete for the playoffs. This team has in fact been healthy and they have been terrible, even in the weak Eastern Conference. Players have not improved, and some have regressed, the coaching has been poor, and the offseason acquisitions have not borne fruit sans the play of Andrew Bynum. This team, and franchise, is an absolute mess. Unless improvement happens, and quickly, I would guess Chris Grant gets fired and the new GM reboots with what looks to be a high lottery pick in a stacked… Read more »
A problem is that we expected most of the Cavs to be (magically) much better this year. When reality showed up, many wanted to blame it all on DW. This caused a reaction of many pointing out that KI is more of the problem. Both can improve. At the moment it looks like DW is at least trying. The best thing that can happen this year is for MB to teach most of the young guys to grow up, play D, and play smart. If we get some more talent, next year we might contend. BTW, if you think some… Read more »
Hot Sauce, you nailed it.
No one wants to trade Kyrie, Scotch. I certainly never said it but regardless you set up your straw man then knocked it down with vigor. Bravo.
Kyrie is a fake leader right now. All talk, no action. His defense last night was as bad as any time last year. He has no pride, seemingly, when he lets guys like Teague take it to him. That lack of pride and competition really concerns me.
Just stop all the silly trade talk. This blog used to be decent, with knowledgeable posters. We have a bunch of knee-jerk people that remind me of parents screaming at coaches and refs at high school girls basketball games. Where are you Tom? Kevin? Others? If you’re upset – wait 24 hours before you post. Miami got blown out by Chicago this week. We just beat Chicago. Teams are being blown out on a nightly basis nowadays. We’re progressing. We’ve beaten a couple of real good teams. I have a new respect for Atlanta. They do know how to win.… Read more »
The Cavs should sit Kyrie for a while. This just a guess, but I think he is injured in some way. Look at what 3 games off did for Dion. Everyone thinks because its early in the season these guys should be fresh, but they have been working all summer and all pre season. Question for anyone. For his first two years, was Kyrie considered a leader? Has it just been this past season where Kyrie has come out and said he is going to be the leader of this team? Maybe its a little much for him. Not all… Read more »
Scotch – I completely agree that Kyrie should not be traded. But the idea that Waiters just recently corrected things is wrong. After the All Star break last year he shot 46% and Kyrie shot 42%. This year, Dion is 43.4% with a serious upward trend, and Kyrie us under 40%. The point is that Dion gets hammered all of the time as inconsistent, etc. but he has been a better scorer than Kyrie for awhile now. I personally think they both will be great, but the narrative that Dion is a problem guy and should be traded and Kyrie… Read more »
Back to back posts ‘trade Kyrie and Earl for MCW and Thaddeus’ then Delladova needs to start over Kyrie.
Yeah Kyrie hasn’t been the top 5/6 player we had hoped he would this year but come on. He, and Waiters, are the only hopes we have at being a true contender. They are the only star like players on this team. Bynum could be too if he had knees.
Cav fans, chin up, if someone told you a year ago you would have Andrew Bynum dominating the paint, so what about the point guards and Anthony invisible Bennett, got to build around something strong here people
It’s not a new thing, to question Kyrie’s work ethic. It was noted over the summer that while some of the guy were regulars in the gym, he was not one of them. What’s funny is Dion would get hammered for one thing in particular: Dumb shots. Kyrie Irving has taken more dumb shots this season then probably anyone in the league. I loved when he was 0-4 and Dion was hot, Kyrie came down and without passing the ball once, took a deep 3 when the Hawks had everyone under the rim ready to rebound. Dion takes that shot,… Read more »
Kyle: This isn’t the first time the “figure out how much we can get for Kyrie before his trade value REALLY dips” conversation has happened. Matt: Waiters hasn’t quickly corrected things. He has just “recently” corrected things. It took a year and half. TV63: Your conjecture about whether or not Kyrie is working hard is ridiculous. He’s alluded to his struggles several times in interviews and how he’s working to correct the shooting issues he’s had. As for working with Bynum, that’s something MB could be a big help with in the next several weeks. If they are going to… Read more »
What is Kyrie’s deal? Can’t play with Waiters, now Bynum seems to be a problem for him Maybe Our Kyrie has a bit of a Diva problem. You don’t think so? Answer me this. The last game when reporters asked him on how well Bynum and Tristan did. He quickly pointed out that Bynum missed easy baskets and his shooting percentage. Really Kyrie? This coming from someone that NBA announcers are scorching rountinely for horrible shooting percentages. Is he even practicing in the same manner as Kobe or even Lebron does when faced with this problem? I don’t think so.… Read more »
If I’m the one who said trade Irving, I was only half-serious. If someone thinks he is elite and wants to trade on that basis, then we should consider it. No one should be untouchable if the deal makes sense. But I don’t think we should be looking to trade anyone and I believe there is no reason Waiters and Irving can’t play together and I hope these guys are professional enough to work on that. If we’re comparing the two, I like and appreciate that Waiters seems to be quickly correcting some of the flaws in his game –… Read more »
scotch, There was one person who said trade Kyrie, its hardly an attitude of the people posting here, and honestly I’m not sure his post was even serious. But we need to stop treating him as the second coming. He has not proven himself to be the caliber of player to lead us to a championship yet, and I don’t think his play this year has warranted us trading Dion just to oppose him…while Dion has been playing better basketball. Does that mean trade him? Of course not. But it does mean don’t let him bully us into personnel decisions… Read more »
I just crunched the numbers using Basketball Reference: In Kyrie’s last 36 games (not including tonight) he’s averaging: 33 Minutes per game 20.4 pts 6.4 assists 3.5 boards 1.1 steals 3 TOs 40% from the field 29% from 3pt 82% from the line In the 42 games prior (the rest of last season) in he averaged: 34 minutes 24.5 points 5 assists per 5 rebounds .5 steals per 3.5 TOs while shooting 47% from the field 43% from 3pt 85% from the line There’s serious regression in ever stat excep assists, TOs, steals, ESPECIALLY his shooting percentages. The drop is… Read more »
Lovely KJ, I’m not quite ready to get rid of the guy who has already done what only a handful of players were able to EVER do in a couple different categories to keep a guy whose upside is “spurts of great speed and good shooting when he’s balanced.” Dion doesn’t finish very well for a SG at the rim, and while he’s been making the most of his FT opportunities lately, he’s not some sort of talent we should all be looking at building the team around. His absolute TOP level production is a Jason Terry type comparison…and he’s… Read more »
Hey scotch, you need to wake up. Kyrie is shooting under 40%. His 3-point % is 30. His FT% is 78. All career lows. Go look at his stars since lady year’s all-star game. This is not about ONE STUPID GAME. It’s about 40 games…
Your Dion stuff is laughable. Completely laughable…
zeek, Kyrie can’t have played the worst game you’ve seen a superstar play, because he’s not a superstar. We anointed this kid after two good years as being an elite player in this league. But he’s not there yet, and after a pathetically slow start(not 6 games, but 19, almost a quarter of a year), I’m starting to question if he ever will be. Is he a good player? Of course. Is he a guy who can LEAD a team to a championship? I’m not sure. Also, am I the only one that thinks maybe there is some merit to… Read more »
You people are hard down weird. Kyrie Irving won the 3 pt contest last year. He’s already been an all star. He’s scored 41 friggin points in a game already this year. This was clearly his worst game ever. Read anything about success in any arena, and somewhere it’ll say “don’t make rash decisions when you are in the dumps. Wait til you have a little perspective.” Dion is a seriously talented ball player who has shown growth, but also has shown himself to be a SERIOUS whiner. In fact, when he got relegated to the bench…he was whining. I… Read more »
http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/video/2013/12/06/131206postgamedionmov-3067501
loved dion’s postgame interview.
Bennett is built like a refrigerator. Why does he think he was drafted to be a long-range threat? I really didn’t see much of him at UNLV but I can’t imagine he made his mark there shooting threes. I am also concerned about Kyrie. The dribbling is impressive, but we aren’t the Globetrotters. I wonder if it is already too late to T-Rich him to someone… I hope I’m wrong but an elite point guard of his size needs to be able to pass and shoot at a very high level. Hopefully the shooting improves, but he seems to hate… Read more »
Just watched the lakers game, wow Wesley Johnson would be perfect for this team. He is Alonzo Gee, but athletic, a good shooter, a good defender, a clutch player.
I’m firmly in the “don’t trade Dion” camp – it seems pretty clear that he is not the problem on this team – but I’m not ready to send Kyrie out of town. The guy is enormously talented and is going through a bad stretch. I never quite bought the “clutch” numbers, but the ball handling and shooting are legit. Let’s hope he figures it out soon.
Jake’s post needs to be plastered everywhere. Dion gets roundly criticized from everyone in the basketball media for being a chucker and inefficient. BEFORE the game tonight, he was shooting better than Kyrie. Just think on that for a time. And then realize that’s been the case since about 20 games left to go last season. Time to re-evaluate how we feel about both players.
@JHill lets put long 2’s in there too.
@Not Sure… Dude tell Bennett he gets one 3pt shot a game, if he makes it he can have another one. If he misses it and shoots another one send him to the D league.
2 #1 overall draft picks in the 2 worst drafts ever. Good job Cavs.
Yeah, Kyrie needs to be benched. Like not even dress. Let Delly start at PG and Miles I guess at the 2. Bennett at 3. Andy and Bynum rounding it out. Tristan would only come off the bench to let us have a better passing unit (Delly Andy and Bynum). It should be done for the Knicks game. Kyrie loves playing NY. If they are still struggling, it gives us a chance to play around a bit and maybe give Bennett a breakout monster game, a game he desperately needs. Just tell him not to venture out past 10 feet.… Read more »
This is what’s killing me. Soooo many of the Cavs bloggers out there are still so reluctant to start seriously asking what Kyrie’s ceiling is. This isn’t 10 games of this. It’s 40 now. 40. That’s a big number people. He’s been SEVERELY overrated up to this point. By everyone. Including me.
Kyrie Irving and Earl Clark for MCW and Thaddeus Young?
Elephant in room – Dion is playing at a much higher level than Kyrie. Kyrie killing us. Trading Dion would make no sense. Team has real hope if Kyrie can get his act together.
@Jake
Waiters has really been playing with a huge chip on his shoulder. I don’t “agree” with how the situation got to Waiters getting a bench role, but it’s pretty clear that it’s only fueled his competitive desire.
It’s obvious that he’s asserting himself at a level that he wasn’t in the first dozen games this season.
At least some good came out of it.
But still, I have to agree that Kyrie’s extended slump at the end of last season and the first quarter of this season is the main reason why the Cavs offense is so deficient.
going to repeat something posted on last recap disregarding the game against washington, since moving to the bench dion is averaging 18 points on 52.3% shooting 3rebs 3 assists 3 tos on 12.5 shots a game in about 28 minutes a game. after this game kyrie will be averaging 19 points on 39% shooting on 19 shots a game even though dion had only 1 assist(think thats right) he still created a lot of shots which either anthony bennett missed or jack deemed were too wide open. Dion’s spin move always seem to amount to a good look minus his… Read more »
Kyrie Irving just played the worst game I’ve ever seen a superstar play. A top-10/20 player in this league cannot play a game like this.
Waiters saved the Cavs from a complete embarrassment of a game.