The Trickle Down Effect of Reaching in the NBA Draft
2014-02-05Over the weekend, Terry Pluto of the Cleveland Plain Dealer discussed the sense of entitlement that often comes with just being drafted in the NBA. Pluto wrote:
“With young men drafted high in the NBA lottery, they are made to feel as if they have ‘already made it’ in the NBA before taking a dribble as a pro. Even more disturbing is how the league fuels that entitlement.
The NBA draft is a huge television show. Then comes the All-Star weekend, where there is a game between rookies and second-year pros. Nearly all of those young players have done nothing to merit being on the same stage as the real All-Stars.”
He goes on to say that by the time most high draft picks enter the league, they’ve played for so many coaches over the last handful of years and no coach for very long. This leads to high draft picks who have no idea how hard it is to win consistently at the NBA level and don’t have a history of coaching continuity that can instill a base of basketball knowledge to help them when they try.
So much for building through the draft…
I made a similar argument to a friend last week, but came at it from a different angle. We were asking a common question this year: How did we just lose to that Phoenix Suns roster?! The answer to that question involves some inevitable head scratching about how a roster full of mid-t0-late first round picks (aside from the little used Alex Len) could so thoroughly dismantle a team featuring four top-four picks (and five top-seven, if you include Deng … though I generally still remove him from the discussion when thinking about this team’s problems).
There’s an NBA truism at work here — one that takes us all the way back to Mike Fratello and his slow-it-down Cavs teams of the mid-90s: the less universally accepted a player’s talent level is, the easier it is to get him to buy into whatever team concept the coach is preaching (in Fratello’s case it was defense and limiting the number of possible possessions in any given game — for Hornacek it’s run, run, run).
And when you choose a player at the top of the draft, that player is supposed to be “the man.”
The Suns roster looks “bad” because it’s made up of a second round pick (Goran Dragic), a 13th and 14th pick (the Morris twins), a so-so former eighth overall pick back in the league after heart problems (Channing Frye) and a former 18th pick who the Pacers couldn’t get rid of fast enough last off-season (Gerald Green). Oh, and a Plumlee. They have a little bit of “star” sizzle in injured point guard, Eric Bledsoe, but even he was picked at 18 in 2010.
But Hornacek can look at his team and say, “If you play my way, you’ll show your value in this league by contributing to a winning team. When you can contribute to a winning team, you’ll have the chance at a long career in the NBA and make yourself some good money.” Brown cannot spin the same commitment to winning, because he has a handful of guys who, by virtue of their draft position to some degree, aren’t thinking “long career” but “a chance at a Hall of Fame career,” not “make yourself some good money” but “earn yourself a couple of max contracts.”
This is not to pick at the character of the young players on the Cavs roster but, as Wally Szczerbiak said as a guest on Brian Windhorst’s “Below the Rim” podcast, professional athletes have to view their bodies like ATMs. The nature of the professional athlete’s limited career arc, Szczerbiak argued, meant making choices to maximize your earnings in a relatively narrow window of time.
So, if you are an 18th overall pick, your path toward maximizing the earning potential of your career might be in being a grinding defender, a rebounder, a rim protector or a 3-and-D guy … a role player, in other words, who wants to excel by doing what his coach asks of him.
If you are the first overall pick in the NBA — or if you are the fourth — your conception of maximizing your career earning potential is completely different from day one. Your rookie deal is already pretty good money and a max-level deal could be in the cards after that. At least, that’s what history has suggested those cards might be.
Again, this is not a claim that, for Irving, Dion Waiters and Tristan Thompson, this is all about money. But does Irving get his max extension if he’d come in, averaged 18 points, nine assists and moderately engaged defense while helping the team to a .500 record? Maybe he does, but 23 points, six assists and two all-star selections even on a bad team virtually guarantees it. Does Waiters’s body ATM pay out most if he’s a 15/4/4 guy who buys into Brown’s physical defensive principles and keeps the ball moving because it helps the team win or if tries to prove he can be an explosive scorer either off the bench or starting? What new wrinkle to his shot does Thompson have to implement to convince his team he’s worth $12 million a year come extension time?
This is why it becomes very tricky to ask these young players to also be your team’s leaders. You have to get the personalities just right, along with the talents. That is the trick behind the Oklahoma City Thunder model. They selected the best player to come out since 2003, sure. But their next piece was a point guard who was a.) not a great shooter and b.) had a competitive streak that occasionally bordered on insanity. None of the Cavaliers core has that personality, even if their individual talents aren’t half bad.
To be clear, I don’t think the Cavs players are consciously out just to get theirs. I think they are young, developing players who are trying to become the best players they can be, just not necessarily the best players for their team to win right now. And the onus of this is not on the players but, rather, on GM Chris Grant.
Grant has become known as the master of the draft day surprise. He shocked us with Thompson. He shocked us with Waiters. And even when we knew he was probably going to shock us, he still shocked us with Anthony Bennett. Each of Grant’s shocking selections (there was debate around Irving, but not much and definitely no shock) were a shock because they were considered reaches at that high point in the draft. Now, they have all shown that they are good NBA players — hey, even Bennett’s been looking more respectable recently — but the risk/reward factor of a reach is extremely high and could be exacerbated by the entitlement and body ATM potential that go with being a high draft pick.
Simply put: if you reach on a player and you miss, you may still have a good player. You may just have a good player who may be trying to develop into an all-star. That gap between ability and perceived potential, then, could create a real rift when players are asked to sublimate their egos for the good of the team.
Could Grant’s roster be particularly flawed, then, by having a core made up of several players he reached on — players who shouldn’t be playing with the pressures and potential (financial and otherwise) that come with being a top five pick, whose perceived successes and failures are not so dependent on the numbers they produce?
Of course, he had to draft someone, but Grant may have made his rebuild that much harder by artificially inflating some of his core’s body ATM withdrawl limit by reaching for them.
Thanks Tom. That was really my point also – I don’t have an issue with Grant being fired – ultimately executives are responsible for results, not the reasonableness of their decisions, and so given the current disarray of the team it’s hard to argue with firing him. I just don’t think it is fair to Grant to say with the wisdom of hindsight his moves were terribly flawed from the start. I don’t see the evidence for that (and to be honest, as you say we don’t know to what extent Gilbert forced his hand on decisions, etc.).
Yeah, drafting a player too high (whether perceived at the time as a reach or not) does probably create a sense of entitlement in some guys that leads to selfishness, ego and bad habits. Except when it doesn’t. And being drafted later than one’s innate talent warrants can light a fire that will take a prospect to the next level when that might not have been the case had he gone top 3 and secured a four-year deal worth tens of millions. Except when it doesn’t. Also the whole “if they spent more time in college being coached by the… Read more »
Mac – thanks for the comment. You’re right, hindsight is 20/20 but the moves Grant made weren’t indefensible. Feels like the Cavs did a lot of things right, a few things wrong, and have been very unlucky – but that’s just my opinion. Hard to really qualify everything they’ve done, especially since we have access to about 10% of the “process”.
Most of this is invalidated by the false comparison to the Suns. The top 4 minutes getters on the Suns are 27-30 years old. Gerald Green- a journey man with 50 career starts coming into the season (and 81 as I type this)- has more mins in the NBA than TT has in 156 career starts. PJ Tucker spent 5 years overseas and has more NBA mins that Dion Waiters. Channing Frye missed a full season and has played more mins than Kyrie and TT COMBINED. Not to mention all of the extra practice time these players have had in… Read more »
Nate,
There are millions of sports writers out there (at least half are idiots), and you have discovered you can find some who agree with you. BFD.
There is no such thing as a reach in a 2-round draft. This is bullshite NFL analysis being super-imposed on the NBA. Not applicable at all. There are no such thing as steals either. 2 rounds and 15 players on a roster. Not 85 or whatever like the NFL. All the players picked have performed as well or better than the picks the CAVS were “supposed” to make. How many effin times must we go over this? Bennett is healthy and in shape now and guess what? He looks like a good draft pick! 3 dbl digit scoring games in… Read more »
This absolutely lies on Mike Brown; it shouldn’t matter where you get picked in the draft as long as the coach makes your role to the team clear. Chris Grant has picked (and passed on) some talented players in the lottery. Also, it lies on the players for being focused on themselves and their contracts rather than the Team as a whole. It’s a culture problem, the Cavs walk in every night and seemingly always allow bad teams like the LA Lakers to come in and outwork them. Nobody is getting pissed off, everyone’s still high giving each other even… Read more »
I like how the majority of the time our team comes back from a large deficit it’s because Delly and Dion are on the floor together.
Cory, if Tristan and Dion were selected a “couple picks too early” then by definition they were reaches. Regardless, both were unexpected picks and reaches however you want to define the term:
http://www.nba.com/bobcats/11_mock_drafts.html – exactly one site had Tristan in the top four. Nine sites/experts had him projected as a pick somewhere between 10 and 15. The average pick for Tristan was number nine.
Here is where Dion was predicted to be selected:
http://www.realclearsports.com/blognetwork/rcs_sidelines/2012/06/nba-mock-draft-compilation-2.html – High of 8, low of 20, average of 11.
I would heed to your analysis, Cory, if Simmons’ comments weren’t completely accurate in this case.
Simmon’s is spread too thin to really comment much on the NBA draft. He’s out of his element. His podcast with Chad Ford after the draft every year really shows it. There have to be levels of reaches right? Thompson was a top 10 player in most mocks. He was select a couple picks too early. Same with Dion. Bennett was on a ton of mock drafts going to the Wizards at 3 this year. Being a GM is a trying to predict the future and it’s effing hard. The hardest part of building a team through the draft, is… Read more »
Don’t worry CJ will only play 5 more minutes then we won’t see him again.
I loathe Mike Brown so much that I’ve begun rooting against the cavs, as their poor performance confirms my dislike for Brown. This is what being a Cavs fan has become for me: rooting against them in the hopes that epic failure will force a change. Not what I had in mind this year.
As I write this: Lakers 52, Cavs 25.
This notion that TT, Waiters, and Bennett weren’t reaches is nuts. A sizable collection of people thought they were. Here’s Jay Bilas on Tristan Thompson right after he was drafted, ““He just needs to learn how to play and how to score.” Yikes. Year three and that still rings true. Or read the sports guy’s take on the next year. Dion Waiters,3 setting themselves up for an easy “Anytime you can take the Big East’s ‘Sixth Man of the Year’ with the fourth pick in an NBA draft, you have to do it” joke. Didn’t we already go through this… Read more »
Come on grover13 they’ve been on the same team as Kyrie Irving they’re used to seeing preferential treatment of players.
That’s true, you can’t “force” them. You lead by example.
Of course, that’s probably difficult when Deng doesn’t actually practice due to his achillies problem. Perhaps it actually undermines his influence a bit, as the youngins might see that as “preferencial” treatment.
Now, if that was the case, perhaps it might be wise to get him in a position to be able to practice, by not playing him 40 minutes a night in 20-point blowout losses. But then, Mike Brown is not wise.
grover, It’s going to take time to any Deng effect. I think if he was already here prior to our young core the team would be performing at a differnt level than it is now. Once a culture is set, it’s going to take some time to change it. Also, although by all accounts Deng is a classy veteran and great lockerroom guy. I’m not sure if he’s the kind of leader (except by example) this team needs. I’m not sure who/how to ‘force’ guys like Kyrie and Dion to play well with each other. Guys like Garnett or Pierce… Read more »
Well Nupe-
Deng was acquired in part to be that veteran leader. That’s not working out very well.
Nupe:
Good points.
@Nupe That’s a great point about veteran leadership. To be perfectly blunt, the leadership on this team is too young and in many ways too immature to handle the task of managing a locker room. The biggest personalities (Kyrie and Dion) have been clashing but there doesn’t seem to be anyone who can sort of make things easy for them by being the adult on the team. It doesn’t help when the perception is that Mike Brown plays favorites in terms of who he punishes and who he doesn’t (whether that’s factually accurate or not is besides the point; the… Read more »
I do think that Grant reached a bit on Dion, TT and Bennett. I highly doubt any of those guys thought they would be taken so high (Dion probably thought he should have been even higher but didn’t expect it). I remember Grant talking so much about making sure we go “high character” guys who would work hard etc. While I do believe Kyrie, TT and Bennett fall into this category, Dion I’m not so sure about as he’s had issues at Syracuse and there are stories about him not being a great lockerroom guy. On the other hand, he… Read more »
Interesting article. It seems that the pool of talent from year to year is highly variable, but our expectations seem to remain constant. We expect a #1 overall pick to be a superstar and consider him a bust if he’s not an all star. We expect a top 5 pick to be an all-star and consider him a bust if he’s not at least a borderline all-star. Nevertheless, it’s hard to compare a top 5 pick in a weak draft to a top 5 pick in a strong one. With the exception of Anthony Davis, would any of the top… Read more »
Mike Brown is too much of a players coach to turn this around honestly. There isn’t anything wrong with being a players coach as long as you don’t let your players run over you. I’m sorry but what 20 year old kid would you know that would go in and take literally everything seriously without having someone to stop and say hey if you don’t do it this way there will be consequences. Right now the pressure is coming and we’ll find out which player turns into diamonds and which player gets crushed by it. I honestly don’t think that… Read more »
@Raoul This is very similar to what is going to happen to the new Browns QB coming in the draft, he’s going to be thrown out there around game 6 suck and be gone in like 2 years. Then people are going to sit around and wonder why all the best QBs sat for like 2 years on the bench just watching in the NFL for so long but the Browns consistently throw guys out that aren’t ready. I think we all had doubts about this Cavs team’s projected ceiling at the start of the season but we wanted to… Read more »
The problem with laying this solely on the coach — and one of the reasons Mike Brown always sounds so exasperated after losses — is that he was given a team and told, “Okay, coach, Kyrie, Dion and Tristan are your core of the future.” When the organization is putting so many of their eggs in those young players’ baskets, it’s impossible for the players to not think that of themselves, as well. This is why there’s so much tension between coaches who want to win and coaches who will let the losses pile up in service of getting the… Read more »
I don’t consider any of the Cavs picks (Kyrie, Tristan, Waiters, Zeller, Bennett, or Karesev) as “reaches.” There may have been a player or two that pundits thought should go higher . . . but they weren’t reaches.
Now . . . are they good fits? Can Mike Brown turn their potentiality into actuality? Those are valid questions.
In retrospect, we all preferred a guy here or there over who was picked . . . you know – like Michael Kidd Gilchrist (who has Michael Westbrook intensity) and Derrick Williams (you know who you are).
Do players feel like they won the lottery by being drafted? Yes. Of course they do. They’re guaranteed set for life – to be millionaires – after just 1 season in the NBA. Does that diminish their drive? Of course it does. You’re talking about teenagers who have worked their butts off, and now they’re set for life. Hopefully some are more motivated – to maximize earnings over the course of their careers; to win; to make it to the hall of fame. But we know from economics that not everyone maximizes – a lot of folks satisfice. And a… Read more »
What? You mean that basketball is a team sport, and playing as a team matters? Who would have thunk it! You mean there’s more to basketball than dribbling and shooting ability? This is not so surprising. Even looking at the college game, the teams with multiple seniors and veterans generally do better during the tournament than those teams featuring the 1 and dones. It’s amazing to me that even with all the advanced basketball statistics now a days, and all the lessons of Moneyball, that teams are still focusing so much energy on “potential” over efficiency, court intelligence, and other… Read more »
@Raoul- The “good situation” argument is a very key point that is often overlooked. It also directly feeds into the “losing begets losing” mindset. I could absolutely see TT thriving with the Heat, and Dion being groomed to take over for Ginobli with the Spurs. And that is the part that is most frustrating to me. I think much of the Cavs roster (Kyrie, TT, Dion, Zeller, Bennett, Karasev) have the potential to become good- maybe even great- NBA players. However, at this point it is almost assured that they won’t develop into that potential with the Cavs. Even if… Read more »
TT would never even see the court for the Heat. They are too deep of a team for a hustle rebounder who can’t defend to see the court.
Some good points here, but based on the theory about who is a “reach”. How do you know who is a reach? Because self appointed experts say so. TT and DW were not considered reaches by GM’s and scouts. Furthermore, most consider them better than players you CG haters wanted picked. The biggest problem for DW and especially TT is playing on a young team that is not very good. Imagine TT in a good situation; say playing for the Heat, with the big 3 getting the defensive attention, and LBJ finding TT in position to shoot. He would be… Read more »
Nice article and I tend to agree with the “trickle down effect of reaching” Two other things I think you have to factor in is: 1) Some of our reaches, mainly Bennett and Thompson, might not truly believe that they should have been drafted as high as they were and now are feeling even more pressured to produce than say a later lottery pick would feel. 2) Shouldn’t some of the blame also be put on the coach? In my criteria of a good coach, he gets players to buy into his system and get them to play together. I… Read more »
Robert – creative and interesting angle A couple real world examples: Tyson Chandler: Drafted 2nd and in the early years was considered a bust who was injury prone and always in foul trouble. Found his niche as a defensive stopped in his 4th / 5th year and became an all star caliber player Chauncey Billups: Drafted 3rd, clashed with Boston management, traded a few times. Backed up Terrell Brandon for a year in Minnesota, where he learned from Brandon, Garnett etc and turned his career around. Just like any 9-5 job, management, circumstance, atmosphere, colleagues LUCK etc play a big… Read more »
zeek – that is crazy when you look at the draft slots for Indiana. Not 1 top 9 pick, and only 1 guy taken top 10 overall.
This “trickle down effect of reaching” poses an interesting angle, and I can go along with it, to an extent. But it really is just another ugly ingredient to the stink-stew that makes this team so Cavsy. Probably not the primary ingredient, but I think it is there.
Very nice to see a different take on the situation from what we usually get. I agree with a lot of the points being made here that it’s probably more difficult to handle a roster full of young top 5 talent (think of the Cavs as the NBA equivalent of Kentucky) as opposed to teams like Indiana or Phoenix where they aren’t counting on top 5 talent to drive them. Look at the Indiana roster: their top 5 players are Paul George (10th overall), Roy Hibbert (17th overall), David West (18th overall), Lance Stephenson (40th overall), George Hill (26th overall… Read more »