Cavs: the Podcast 0050 – New Coach, New Draft, Same Podcast
2014-06-23
First – congrats on the entire C:tB team – we’ve reached 50 podcasts! Thanks to all our listeners who have supported us over the last two (or three?) years.
Can you believe it – we’re a mere FOUR days from the 2014 NBA draft! Embiid is injured, Blatt is the head coach, and no one (including the front office) has a clue WHAT to do with the number one overall pick. Nate, Ben, and I do, though. So we hopped on the line to discuss the new head coach hire, who the Cavs should draft (and whether or not they should trade the pick), what will happen to Embiid, and what other surprises the draft holds.
The podcast can be found on SoundCloud at https://soundcloud.com/cavstheblog/0050-new-coach-new-draft-same-podcast
I’m 100% against trading Dion Waiters BTW.
does anyone remember john wal’s 1st couple yrs in the league—extremely athletic but ” COULDN’T HIT THE WATER THROWING A BALLL OUT OF A BOAT “—–WIGGINS IS FAR AHEAD AS FAR AS SHOOTING MECHANICS / JUST AS ATHLETIC ( IF NOT MORE ) AND ONLY 19—–I TRULY BELIEVE WITH THE HIRING OF BLATT AND NOW LUE WE HAVE THE RIGHT STAFF TO BRING HI ALONG / SKILL WISE TO BE A STAR IN THIS LEAGUE
First off guys, Lebron isn’t coming back. If he does then look at it as a miracle and go from there. If he wants to come back he’ll say so. We should not pass on a prospect because we have a .001% chance of getting LBJ back. You take Wiggins he’s got problems true but so does each prospect. If Parker is so damned competitive then why doesn’t he try on defense? Embiid is falling apart, Jordan had the same injury but he also wasn’t 7 feet tall. There is no big man who has not had his whole career… Read more »
Nicely said. I agree.
Love that the Cavs got Lue! Of course, no coach wants to come to Cle and Gilbert is hated by all, so… Ha!
Seriously, I think Lue could do wonders with Kyrie…
KJ
Go read this
http://www.fearthesword.com/2014/6/23/5834376/why-the-cavs-should-take-andrew-wiggins-in-the-2014-draft
Reading stuff like this just really emphasis how much speculation goes into the draft. Much of this article is just opinions of a fan writing about what he believes Wiggins will be able to do in the NBA without providing a lot of stats (advanced or otherwise). I’ve read other articles that have a ton of stats (about Wiggins and others) that could easily be used to ‘prove’ that player A should be chosen ahead of player B. Meaning several advanced stats say Wiggins is not worth a #1 pick. At the end of the day, nobody know if the… Read more »
Yeah, that’s one opinion piece that is wildly devoid of actual data and meanwhile I have posted at least FOUR analytical articles. So, yeah, I guess according to folks like Mallory, you win. Congrats.
Analytics are only as good as the person doing the analysis and statistics can be very misleading when divorced from context. For instance, rebounding is a big part of PER and models predicting future success in the NBA. And according to one of the articles you posted*, Parker blows Wiggins out of the water (reb/40min pace adjusted 11.6 vs 6.9). But how does this account for context- that Parker played most of the season closer to the basket as a big in a small-ball lineup, but that Wiggins played further away as a true wing? Or that Parker only had… Read more »
If you love all the analytics so much, why don’t you want the Cavs to grab Smart?
Blatt is clearly a smart guy who has a pretty strong track record as a head coach. I expect that he’ll do really well and I don’t think he’ll have any problems relating to the Cavs players. In terms of the draft, I just hope that the Cavs don’t surprise us. They ought to take Wiggins or trade back and grab Exum or Embiid. I’ve never been too keen on Parker because I think he’s a defensive liability and a bit of a tweener. We already have Bennett and I don’t see how they fit together. Meanwhile, recent reports suggest… Read more »
Question for Ctb community around the potential of trading down to pair a vet with Embiid- who would you rather have in terms of Favors (from Utah) or Thad Young (Philly)? All I’ve got are stats on them, and admit I haven’t seen either of them really play. My take is Favors has more upside, and is more of a unique player in terms of skillset- 6’10” PF who can play some center and actually has some value as a rim protector, with good range to 18 feet. Thad Young is less special, but fills the more direct need in… Read more »
I’d rather have Wiggins.
nupe I agree with you—if Bennett is healthy and comes to camp in shape ( the pressure is somewhat off ) with blatt’s coaching I think we finally get to see why he was a high pick last year—-that is why we go with wiggins and not parker —Bennett might be as good as parker ( or better ) we need an athletic small forward with a VERY HIGH CEILING —–I still think they could get embiid by a trade ( Thompson / next years # 1 and possibly this tears # 2 )—- think it is worth the risk
Love The Podcasts!!! Posting once I hear it through.
As far as trades go I think you have to look at it this way: Are Jabari/Wiggins better for the team long term than Embiid+Favors/Thad Young? From what I have seen, I think Embiid is worth the gamble, especially if you get solid assets in addition.
That’s quite a gamble. It’s not worth passing on Wiggins to gamble on Embiids health. If this was last year’s draft, sure take Embiid. But Wiggins is such a great prospect that they should just take him since Embiid is injured.
Again, you keep saying Wiggins is a great prospect and yet there is very little evidence to back that up. Embiid was/is a GREAT prospect. Hell, Parker is a better prospect. The thing to do is trade for a vet (which this team needs more this year anyway) and draft Embiid. That makes the best basketball sense.
KJ – What about Wiggins makes him not the best prospect in this draft? Embiid has injury problems and is EXTREMELY raw – everything I hear about him says his footwork, while steady, needs a ton of work. He’s extremely foul-prone and doesn’t have a ton of O game right now. There’s nothing sure-thing about him. Likewise, Parker is a tweener with massive defensive liabilities who needs to have the ball in his hand to go to work. Doesn’t that sound like half of the Cavs’ roster? Wiggins is a top-notch on ball defender already, is EXTREMELY athletic, long, and… Read more »
From what I have heard, the Cavs were blown away by Embiid’s workout. They are also the only team that has his full medical info. If there is even a 50/50 chance he reaches his potential, you have to take the risk. Cleveland is not going to win a championship without a superstar player, and it looks like Embiid might be the only player in this draft with that ceiling.
@Truffle Shuffle What? Everything I keep reading says there are (or were, depending on your take on Embiid’s medical status) THREE players with superstar potential. Wiggins has, on a lot of scounts boards, rated highest. But not a single pundit/scout has said there is one clear cut superstar in this draft.
Because I did REASEARCH. I don’t just look at highlights or regurgitate what I “heard.” Despite what you folks seem to think, analytics has OUTPERFORMED EVERY GM in the draft for years now. Christ, why can’t people get this through their heads? I posted how the only REALLY IMPACTFUL defenders are bigs. Only of few wings show up as being defensive pluses. So, Wiggins supposed GREATEST strength (even though his steal and block numbers are not great and EXACTLY the same as supposedly bad defender Parker. As we KNOW, steals and blocks are GREAT predictors of NBA success) is something… Read more »
KJ – Advanced stats loved Tristan Thompson.
Really? That’s your reply? An anecdote? Wow. Yeah, ok, whateves…
I could be wrong, but I’m not a big Wiggins fan. If he had an outstanding basketball characteristic outside of the fact that he can touch the top of the backboard when he jumps I’d be convinced. While it takes that type of athleticism to become a Wade, LeBron, Westbrook, Durant, or Kobe – there must be a basketball talent and an incredible competitiveness to get there. I see athleticism. I don’t see basketball instincts or rare competitiveness or a specific basketball skill. I defer entirely to Griffin if he sees that. I go by what I see. And why… Read more »
KJ – you consider yourself firmly in the analytical camp, correct? If so, how is TT being a let down anecdotal? My point is there are exceptions to any rules. Wiggins has long been considered the highest ceiling player in this draft. Even when considering the potential of Embiid, to say this is a one horse race is to ignore the opinion of many, many, MANT professionals. I have no problem with you having confidence in your opinion (I mean, it’s your opinion) but when there is a hole (a pretty gaping one, here) don’t call it anecdotal. Chris Grant… Read more »
“I posted how the only REALLY IMPACTFUL defenders are bigs.”
I assume you mean the article that quotes ESPN : http://www.brewhoop.com/2014/6/19/5819706/nba-draft-2014-andrew-wiggins-jabari-parker-safe-pick
If you follow the link, you’d see that Andre Iguodala has roughly the same defensive value as Dwight Howard, Asik, and Splitter and more defensive value than Deandre Jordan, Noah, Tyson Chandler, Bosh, or Hibbert…I guess elite wings can be impactful!
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM
The problem with trading down is that most of the players in the 3-8 range are redundancies with the Cavs roster. Smart and Exum make no sense whatsoever. Same with Vonleh, Randle, yadda. I agree with the podcaster that if they traded down I would probably grab Embiid at 3 or 5 and prey that his foot heals like Jordan’s did and not Yao’s. It’s a gamble but he still has more potential than anyone in this draft other than Wiggins or Parker. If they obtain Favors or Young than Thompson is probably being dealt. I’d rather have Gordon Haywards… Read more »
Apparently there are additional medical concerns beyond Embiid’s back and foot that have some teams concerned. Obviously we don’t know the true facts, but 4-6 months of being out with more than just a few injuries that date back multiple years – thats a really big risk to take – even bigger risk for a player who is just so raw. Parker’s weight concerns, defensive liability and need to have the ball in his hands to be effective concern me. Add in the reports that he rather play for the Bucks and that he ‘tanked’ his workout in Cleveland –… Read more »
I absolutely HATED Blatt’s presser after winning the Euroleague championship. Essentially what I got from it is – Wow, my players really aren’t that good and because I’m such a good coach we won the championship. NOT the kind of message that his players wanted to hear. Then he made it even worse IMO when he said “we showed other teams and coaches…” I hope what he was trying to say is that because they played such good team basketball and each player fully understood and committed to playing thier role for the team – that’s why they won. I… Read more »
I’d be curious to hear the thoughts of others. I didn’t interpret Blatt’s presser that way at all. What I hear – Team basketball trumps individual talent every time. We may not have had the most individual talent, but we played the best team basketball. That’s why we are champions.
I think that’s how most people are interpreting “his message” and it’s why Hot Sauce called it “must watch stuff.” That’s EXACTLY the type of mentality we need in Cleveland!
well it sure seems like the Cavs have a lot of talent that doesn’t play well together at all. So if he can get them to become MORE than the sum of their parts – that’s huge with this squad.
I liked the presser because I felt that Blatt oozed leadership. There was definitely a bit of self-importance/arrogance in his speech (which I think is what @Nupe is responding to), but I liked that. All of these coaches know basketball. What makes a coach great is the ability to connect the X’s and O’s of the game to a broader philosophy and culture that inspires players. That stuff is hard to measure, but I thought Blatt’s presser exhibited a lot of it. I bet Mike Brown knows as much about X’s and O’s as Phil Jackson or Pop or Larry… Read more »
Draft Wiggins and be done with it.
Thanks hot sauce! I meant to do that.
re-posting the Blatt presser that you guys talked about in the podcast. this is must watch stuff.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=exLt0VIlLxs
just listening to blatt’s style of coaching—wiggins seems as the sure pick to fit his style——just hope we are over ” THE CHRIS GRANT I AM GOING TO SHOCK THE WORLD ” type of pick—-go with the sure pick ( wiggins or parker —-preference to wiggins )—if they turn out to be busts —THEN 29 OTHER G.M.’S AND EXPERTS ARE WRONG TOO !!—- I would like them to be creative and try to trade down to get embiid—I think he is worth the risk—will be an exciting week leading up to thurs night
I really think that we need to get over the idea of appeasing Kyrie or any other player. Build a culture and system and ask guys to fit in. If they aren’t interested or capable then see ya later. This doesn’t mean I want there to be an antagonistic reltationship between the coaches and players, just that they need to be on the same page. Obviously, this will be a lot easier to accomplish if they actually start winning more than losing
Agree with Vedwin
Thanks, Jason. They’re fixed now.
The links are incorrect