Links to the Present: Report Cards, Trades, and a Presser
2014-06-27
The Cavs organization must have been reading our mock draft last night because they took the same player we took with the number one pick, Andrew Wiggins. No wonder the grade for that pick is so high. Although we didn’t take Joe Harris with our 33rd pick in the mock draft, writers are pretty high on him too.
The head draft expert at ESPN, Chad Ford, awarded the Cavs an A. He didn’t give out an A+ to anyone.
[The Cavs] took the player with the most upside and showed a willingness to let him develop into the best player in the draft. I think Wiggins is a better fit for the team anyway. He brings defense, he can play the 2 or 3, and he won’t need the ball in his hands to make an impact on the team.
Wiggins has as much or more talent than Kyrie Irving and, in time, will be the guy they build around.
Harris is a shooter and is tough as nails. Though he’s not a great defender, he brings great effort.
Wiggins and Kyrie might be having some words over that assessment of talent, but they are going to make things work because Wiggins can roll with any situation.
Mary Schmitt Boyer at The Plain Dealer captured that attitude with Wiggins’ answer about pitching something to LeBron James to get him back to Cleveland.
“I want to win,” Wiggins said with a big smile after the Cavs made him the No. 1 pick in the 2014 NBA Draft on Thursday night in Barclays Center. “If he wants to win, we’d be good together.”
Ben Golliver at Sports Illustrated has also taken the stance that Wiggins is a winner by placing the Cavs in the group of winners for this draft along with the Bucks and the death of competitive basketball games, the 76ers.
Given yet another shot at the first pick, Cleveland did well to avoid over-thinking things, tabbing Wiggins to fill its major hole on the perimeter. He is the total package — physical gifts, upside, love for the game, solid character, no injury risks — and he’s ready to help right now. Let the excited countdown to Summer League begin.
Rob Goldberg at Bleacher Report continues the positivity by awarding the Cavs an A- rating, and Matt Moore at CBS Sports awards the Cavs their highest draft grade for Wiggins, an A+.
The best overall prospect and they don’t need him with the ball early with Irving and Waiters. The future is now.
His coworker, Zach Harper gave the team a B+.
Some people will pick nits with the decision of Andrew Wiggins with the No. 1 pick, but I just don’t think the Cavs could have screwed that up. Wiggins is a potential star in this league and he’ll immediately help transform a franchise direction being led by David Griffin and David Blatt. They could have gone Jabari Parker but Wiggins is a fantastic decision too. What keeps them out of the A’s is the Joe Harris pick in the second round. He’s not a bad pick. He can shoot the lights out and he makes the right play a lot of times. I just feel like they missed a chance to add another definite rotation guy early in the second round.
Harper raises a very good point about taking Joe Harris. Glenn Robinson III and Jerami Grant, the super freak who might become a top defender at the three spot, were still on the board. What troubles me with the Harris pick is the conflicting reports about his defense. Ford is down on his defense, but others such as Scott Sargent at Waiting For Next Year are touting it. Who knows? He could be Sergei Karasev complete with defense.
As far as how Wiggins fits together with the team, Mike Mayers of Fear the Sword has that covered. Offensively:
[to address Wiggins’ inability to shoot]The good news is that Blatt’s system involves much more than just guard penetration. There’s also a lot of cutting, in the style of the Princeton offense under which Blatt played in college. (To learn more about Blatt’s system, watch this incredibly helpful video by SB Nation’s Coach Nick.)
This is where Wiggins could be able to thrive from day one. At Kansas, he was often criticized for standing still too often on offense. That won’t be an option in Blatt’s system, and his athleticism should allow him to be very good at cutting and moving without the ball.
Defensively:
Defensively, there are not nearly as many questions about how Wiggins will fit. Whether he plays the two or the three on offense, his size and athleticism should allow him to guard the opposing team’s best wing player. It may take him some time to learn how to play defense in the NBA, but once he does, he’s going to make a huge difference on that end. Wing defense was one of the team’s biggest needs, and Wiggins fills it.
The bottom line of the draft is that the Cavs did good. The team is performing at an A level for the practice exam, and the fans will have to wait to see how the team performs during the real test of an NBA season.
During the final test, one key player is going to be missing. Alonzo Gee is going to Charlotte for Brendan Haywood and Dwight Powell, the 47th pick/center from Stanford. Bob Finnan says, “[Haywood] will make $2.2 million this season. His deal for $10.5 million in 2015-16 is not guaranteed.” He could be a great piece for a trade to a team looking to cut money.
Alonzo Gee has been a player for the Cavs for four years and averaged 8.2 points to go with 3.8 rebounds in 25.4 minutes per game. He has had some dunks that made me scream and once fouled on two three point shots in one half during a game last season. I screamed then for different reasons, but I’m still going to miss him.
I hope Gee continues to “Throw The Hammer Down” for years to come. Speaking of thrown hammers, check out why the Cavs drafted Wiggins with highlights of his private workout, last week.
The conference to introduce Wiggins started late as most of these things do, but Wiggins came in ready for business. His flashy draft suit was replaced with a calm grey one and a tie with yellow stripes.
Some of the highlights:
Andrew Wiggins on what he will do for the team:
I just want to come in, create an impact right off the bat, offensively and defensively, bring the teams to the next level and just be a good teammate.
Wiggins on defense:
It all started when I was young. My father always really emphasized that fact. Defense. Everyone knows defense wins games. I really took it personally among me. I tried to set goals every game about the person I’m guarding and just trying to lock them up. I don’t like when my man scores, even when I’m on the bench and he scores, that makes me mad. So it’s always been a big priority of mine.
Wiggins on his dad never losing to him:
He never lost because he stopped playing when he got older.
David Blatt on Wiggins’ Fit:
Well, one of Andrew’s greatest qualities is that he can play both ends of the court. And there’s always minutes for a guy that does that.
Wiggins on chemistry with his fellow Canadians, the #canadiancontingent, and the Cavs.
I tried to learn a lot about the different organizations that were looking at me. At this team having interest in me, closely, I knew Tristan from the AAU circuit. We’re from the same area. And I knew Anthony from the national level, knew him for years. I think the chemistry is there for those guys, and I know I’ll get along with everybody else.
David Griffin also mentioned that the number one pick was not close to being traded. However, he does seem open to making moves in the coming weeks during free agency because of the “bandwidth” ownership lets him work with. Griffin even got in a few digs about Andrew’s suit last night to keep the mood light.
Ok this is a deal that works for both teams that we need to make so cavs trade waiters who needs to be traded thompson who will conflict and our three first round picks from next year and if needed 1 or 2 more but the three should be enough for Kevin love the twolves won’t get more for him than that and he won’t resign with them so they need to move him but he won’t sign a long term deal with the cavs so we keep him on his one year contract which is a risk but if… Read more »
Steeg – Unless James signals clearly that he’s coming back to Cleveland, we cannot trade for Kevin Love. Also, The Warriors are likely going to offer a better package for Love than we will – especially when they come to grips with including Klay Thompson. Your offer: Dion, TT, a bunch of picks that will probably be in the middle to late first round (assuming the Cavs have Love and Lebron on the roster, they’d probably have a top 5 w-l record). Warriors offer: David Lee, Thompson, Barnes, a draft pick (or two) and taking on Kevin Martin’s contract. Seems… Read more »
Yes but we own the grizz pick and the heat and without lbj there the heat may be a lottery amd we can get love without lbj we just can get him to sign an extension without lbj and lee is 31 I wouldn’t put his value that much higher than tt if at all and they may not want to make that trade anyways cuz curry said he would rather have lee and klay than love and u respect your stars wishes
SUMMER LEAGUE IS GOING TO BE AMAZEBALLS.
What is the theory on being in one or both summer leagues?
Since they are both pretty short, it would seem to me to be a good idea to be in both, particularly if you are installing an entirely new system. Also, the chance of uncovering a diamond in the rough would be higher.
I am shocked that wade would turn down 42 million over two years. But if they value winning over money, then the NBA is working like it’s supposed to. However if I’m the NBA and this is going down? I’m watching for off the books payments like a hawk.
Nate – why are you shocked by Wade’s decision. He’ll sign a longer deal and make more money. He’ll probably get $55M to $60M over four years so he’ll lock in another $20M. Let’s suppose he opted into the next two years for $42M. Imagin Wade after two more years – do you think a 34-year-old Wade is getting anything more than a mid-level exception? If he’s only playing 50-60 regular season games and running out of gas in the playoffs there’s no way he gets a bigger deal. And it makes sense, Wade clearly doesn’t want to play anywhere… Read more »
I’m with Nate only because I don’t think Wade can make 42 million over the rest of his career. Maybe Pat Rielly gives him a life time achievement award and gives 48 million over 4 years but in the open market the best deal could get is 3 years 33 or 4 years 40. I think those contracts would be over paying as well but thats why I was surprised
“the NBA is working like it’s supposed to” Nate, I would have to disagree with this. I feel the NBA has serious problems. This whole Lebron/Miami model of team building/ring chasing is nothing short of a disgrace and a slap in the face to the history of the game. 3 of the best players in the East colluding as far back as 2006 to set something up where they all can play together, and now apparently taking less money to add more talent – this is the NBA working as it’s supposed to? So they pulled it off in 2010… Read more »
It is what it is. I don’t love it, but it clearly isn’t hurting the NBA, which is more popular than ever. Many of the Spurs players are taking less than market value to stay together. Boris Diaw was worthless in Charlotte (which became a playoff team) but suddenly shined in San Antonio. Honestly, I don’t think the Heat will necessarily be any better next year. Getting a player like Lowry would help, of course, but their core is still a year older aand coming off of a 100 game season. Lebron is probably at his peak now. Would they… Read more »
Greyrat, I might not like the way the NBA has evolved, but it is what it is. AND it has some interesting aspects. For example, the Heat have become somewhat like the NY Yankees were for a long time: a team with an unfair advantage that everyone else in the country could hate. When the Yankees went to the world series, everyone in the country had a rooting interest: New York area (plus a few like LeBron) for the Yankees, everyone else in the country for the other team. That was kind of fun. LeBron has done so many things… Read more »
Raoul – reHeat is actually pretty good – but to me anything but the Heatles. Anybody comparing these clowns in Miami to the Beatles – doesn’t have a firm grasp on reality or have just lost touch with how significant the Beatles were and continue to be. The “big 3” in Miami can’t sniff the Beatles underwear in terms of reach and cultural influence, popularity, or really any category. All accomplished in a non-digital age. The only comparison to the Beatles that would be somewhat valid – would be the 1966 period where Lennon was taken out of context on… Read more »
Maybe “reCheat” would be better? This would be a funny outcome: Suppose LeBron signs with, say, the Mavs. Then Riley would jump at the chance to give Wade a lowball offer, or totally sluff him off: “too bad, sucker! Go play with Kobe.”. A lot of press talk is that LeBron and Carmello will both go to the Rockets. That would be funny: Carmello and Hardin would be chucking up everything is sight, LeBron would never get a shot, Dwight would be pouting, LeBron would be the only one playing any D or rebounding. My recollection of the “bigger than… Read more »
My solution has always been that the league needs to incorporate a true franchise player tag. My idea for this tag would allow teams to pay their franchise player any amount and it would only count against the cap as a max contract. I think this would immediately start spreading out all star caliber player throughout the league.
The thing about Lowry signing in Miami is that he’s never gotten his 401k contract like Bron, Bosh and Wade. Even if he did sign there he wouldn’t be fully utilized in their system with Lebron being the primary facilitator. The Napier drafting has been blown a but out of proportion. He was a good college player. He’s damn near a year older than Kyrie and has been playing against guys who are younger/less experienced than him.
We’ll see – I think Lowry can probably get a 4-year deal worth $30M-$40M – perhaps even more is he re-signs with Toronto. Miami might be able to make an offer in this range.
Between Haslem, Wade and Bosh – the Heat will reduce next year’s payroll by $15M. If Lebron takes a little less, they can have even more to spend on their supporting cast.
But, this is Cavs the Blog – so I’m happy to focus on our players that might actually come to Cleveland.
Wade & Bosh (& Haslem) opting out — could set up a way to bring everyone back AND another stud (whether Melo or not). ESPN speculates that Pat Riley is gunning for Love.
I think Lowry or Gortat are much more likely than Love or Melo.
The Heat would have to trade for Love and they have very few assets to offer in return. I think it’s more likely that Love will land with the Warriors, Celtics or some other team.
Yeah this aint good news for the LeBron coming home hopes. I’m in the shrinking camp that LeBron is coming home.
That’s alright if he doesn’t come back. I’m super excited about Wiggins and think he is going to be great.
kojo; exactly my attitude!
“All In” with that attitude.
Kojo and Raoul – As Lebron has stated many times – Akron, not Cleveland is ‘home’ for him and his crew. Here’s how things with Lebron will play out. Now that Lebron, Haslem, Wade and Bosh have all opted out (or, in Haslem’s case, not opted in), they will sign longer deals for lower yearly amounts to free up money for Riley to sign 1-2 impact players. Haslem opted out of 1 year at $4.6M and will sign a 2-3 year deal for $3M per year Then Wade will sign his deal – he opted out of 2 years and… Read more »
Scott – there is no way in hell the Heat are giving Wade a 4-5 year deal worth $13-15M per. I think he’ll sign a 3 year deal worth $24M. Haslem will sign for chump change. LeBron will probably re-sign for $15-17M per. Bosh will be in the $10-15M per year range. This is all assuming they are going to take less money to bring in another piece. Also, I doubt Kyle Lowry ends up with the Heat. He just had a career year, didn’t he? He’s looking for that fat contract. I can see Pau Gasol coming for cheap.… Read more »
Scott,
Get the “all out” of here with that attitude, bro.
I still think there is a 45% chance he comes back. As good as Wiggins can be and I LOVE Dion but we aren’t winning a championship with out another star. So we got to hope right
At this point, we drafted Wiggins to be the second “star” on this team. I think it’s entirely possible. If Wiggins becomes a top 5 NBA player at the SG/SF position, we’re in business. Everyone is down on Kyrie, including myself, because he did not improve in year 3. Let’s look at what he was up against. Mike Brown. I’ll say it again: Mike, Brown. I admit I was pleased with the re-hire, but three weeks into the season I realized I was dead wrong. I love defense, but at the NBA level you simply cannot win playing only 1/2… Read more »
Lots of info on salary for the 18(!) Cavs, traders, etc., is now up at FtS:
http://www.fearthesword.com/2014/6/28/5852496/nba-free-agency-exploring-the-cleveland-cavaliers-salary-cap-situation
Where can I get a CtB “All In” Tee shirt?
All in with Underdog!
I’m “all in” with what the Cavs have done.
Up until the draft I was very skeptical of taking Wiggins. But everything I’ve seen since the draft has me very excited about him.
I’m “all in” with Griffin, Blatt, and Lue. I like this team. It’s a group of guys I can root for while they develop. If Kyrie is all in it’s going to be a lot of fun.
Agree with you. In all of the 2014 NBA Draft hoopla, lost on a lot of us (maybe just me?) is the fact that Blatt/Lue forms the most exciting Cavs coaching duo in a long, long time.
Blatt will run the anti-Mike Brown system. All of the movement will open up so much for Irving and Waiters to drive (and Wiggins too). Also, if Lue (a former PG) can get Irving and Waiters on the same page, the leap this team will take over the next 1-2 years, excluding Wiggins, will be tremendous.
I do like the way Blatt is approaching things. Answering the question put to him “are you a defensive or offensive coach” and answering (paraphrasing – I don’t have the actual quote) “I am a coach period – and I look to get the most out of my talent and coach my players to reach their full potential” – just sounds like a guy who has the right approach. We all know how Brown would of answered that same question “I coach and emphasize defense, we won’t even work on the offense until February. We need to play good defense… Read more »
Jason Lloyd has the details on the trade:
http://www.ohio.com/sports/cavs/cavs-trade-alonzo-gee-for-stanford-s-dwight-powell-and-hornets-brendan-haywood-1.499980
It turns out there are some interesting possibilities for future trades in Haywood’s contract.
I’m not so sure Deng is the best fit for us. He’s a slasher which we have already in waiters and kyrie. Why not sign and trade him? I believe in a recent comment one of our C:tB editors said they would love to have Biyambo in a Cavs jersey this year. Sign and trade Deng to Charlotte who has the cap space for Deng and could really use him. In return get, Biyambo, Kidd-Gilchrist and next years first rounder. We add a shot blocker, quality backup wing and a future asset for someone who will likely leave anyway. Better… Read more »
Not a bad idea! I don’t think the horcats are ready to give up on mkg yet.
But if it meant swapping MKG for Deng….
I think if do it whether I gave up on MKG or not.
C’mon guys. Why would Deng sign with the Cavs? He’s a free agent and can go wherever he wants to go. Why would he allow the Cavs to determine his destination? He’s not a max player . . . so it’s not like the Cavs can pay him more than anyone else. Let’s move on. Deng is gone. The debate turns to whether we sign Hawes and CJ . . . or somebody on the open market (Livingston?). Personally, I’d like to keep both. On another note, we have something like 15 players on our roster – most deserve playing… Read more »
Actually, the odds Cleveland executes a sign and trade are good. Deng likely wants to go to a contender. Contenders don’t usually have the cap room to sign a guy like him outright. So a sign and trade makes sense for all parties. But the cavs wouldn’t have the leverage to get mkg.
So which teams would be a candidate for a sign and trade?
Could he be used to get love? Like Deng, TT and Jack for love?
I loved having Griff and Blatt up there instead of Grant and Brown. Lots of optimism from me on the organization.
Agree. After watching the breakdown of Blatt’s offense I saw the potential of what this team can become. Karasev and Harris hitting weakside threes. Zeller and Wiggins on back door cuts. Blatts histoy of getting players to overachieve. I’m excited. The Wizards won 29 games two seasons ago, lucked out jumping up in this lottery and added a solid vet. The Cavs win 34 games last year, lucked out MUCH MORE in the draft and have the ammo and cap room to add a solid vet. Really excited for the future of this franchise.
Agree with Greyrat.
Don’t agree with Scott. Get rid of that loser mindset! Things are breaking good!
Anyone know why the trade for #45 seems to be in a holding pattern?
Apparently the trade cannot be approved until after July 1 (or July 10), something to do with contracts/caps etc.
“The Cavs and Hornets cannot discuss nor complete the trade until July 1, per league rules.”
http://msn.foxsports.com/ohio/story/sources-cavs-trade-alonzon-gee-to-hornets-062714
Actually, the “loser mindset” is the constant pining over Lebron. The constant chatter about trading for Love and enticing Lebron to return annoys me. I’d rather focus on the players we have than the superstar we don’t. I was 100% on board with taking Embiid before the foot injury surfaced, but I’m relieved the Cavs didn’t panic-trade the pic for a vet in an attempt to lure Lebron back to the team. And, after Embiid’s injury, barring a trade for multiple picks, Wiggins was the right pick. Lastly, I’m completely sold on Blatt and Lue. Blatt is impressive and it’s… Read more »
Getting Love isn’t just about Lebron. Its about getting the best PF in the game. If he isn’t going to extend his contract u don’t give up Wiggins but alot of us think that Irving, Wiggins and Love would be enough to make the conference finals next season. I don’t think that getting Blatt is going to turn TT into a player. The guy is one of the worst passers in the league, doesn’t block shots and doesn’t finish well. Substitute Love and it will give Blatt a chance to start winning off the bat
Not really draft related, but anyone know what is going on with Loul Deng? I’ve heard several people on call-in shows mention how young this cavs team is and that we could use some veteran presence, without even mentioning Deng – and I of course think of Deng. Is it a forgone conclusion that he is leaving and won’t be back? I kind of was looking forward to a healthy Deng and a Irving,Wiggins,Deng,TT,Hawes starting 5 with Delly,Waiters, Bennett, Andy, Zeller bench. (Jarrett jack in there somewhere too) Another year of experience and I like that team. I think there… Read more »
Did Pelton really say Wiggins is as or more talented than kyrie? That guy’s got balls to toss that in there like it’s common knowledge. I don’t’ see evidence of Wiggins every eclipsing 40pts in a game. I guess if you throw in defensive prowess it gets close…but Wiggins has a lot of growing to do. I agree with the sentiment that the past couple years need to be left alone for a while. Though Blatt comes from the same offensive mindset (sort of) as Byron Scott, we will need a chunk of the season to pass by before we… Read more »
huh? Wiggins eclipsed 40 in college. (41 v WV)
He averaged 17+ and 6 per game, he’s not terrible offensively just has some work to do
his first 31 games he scored under 10 5 times.
his final 5 games he averaged 25+
he averaged 2 ppg less than Jabari ‘Super Offense’ Parker this year
Wiggins also plays defense.
Obviously he has a lot of growing to do … he is 19.
You aren’t being very positive considering you can’t get enough of Griffin’s
I don’t want to trade Wiggins for anything less than Kevin Love. I honestly believe he is going to blow up for us next season. If Blatt can figure out how to get the most out of Kyrie and Dion next season, we’re all going to be claiming to have the best backcourt in the NBA.
If it means trading for Kevin Love, I’ll give up anyone not named Irving and Wiggins. Waiters, Thompson, Bennett, and our 2015 and 2017 first round picks, unprotected, might get it done.
If Love says he wants to play here it should be. Waiters and the picks should be enough since once he says that other teams will be even less inclined to take him. I’m not sure what kinda value TT has anyways. Waiters Bennett and Memphis, Miami, and our picks should be enough. (Hpw great.would getting Jack into tht deal be)
Are you guys doing drugs? I’m semi-serious. Two first round picks on a team that hasn’t made the playoffs yet is way to much for Kevin Love. Love is most likely going to walk after a year with the Cavs. I’d trade Tristan Thompson, Brendan Haywood (they might use him as a trade asset the next season with his non-guaranteed contract) and the 2015 pick top 12 protected. Jack would have to be involved most likely to make the money work. I think Dion is untouchable. He was better than Kyrie much of the season and can play defense. The… Read more »
I think you are all delusional. You wildly over-value Cavs players – especially Waiters – and the value of our future picks. Also, let’s face the obvious: Kevin Love will not sign an extension with the Cavs. Lebron is not returning to the Cavs this year (if ever). We have an exciting group of young players and, because maybe God DOES love Cleveland, we avoided and $80 million Calaparitastrophe and wound up with a great coaching staff in Blatt and Lue. I’m more optimistic than I’ve been since The Decision and that’s despite Embiid not working out for us. Let’s… Read more »
Love said he’d sign if LBJ did. Even LBJ would have to stop and consider joining the cavs now. Irving, Wiggins, Love and LBJ would win multiple rings
Scott,
that is an insane lineup
last post was to Rodney Mac not Scott
This one is to Scott though. K Love said if Bron signs with Clv and he got traded to Clv he would 100% sign an extension to be in Clv.
Just backing up what Rodney said.
Don’t call it delusional until you know if it is or not.
David – that is insanity if you think two future first rounders is too much for Kevin Love. This is the NBA and a lot of you need to let go of the non-value that draft picks have (unless you are in the top 5). If we added Love to this team, Irving-Waiters-Wiggins-Love-AV is a playoff team in the East. Period. Subtract Waiters in the trade and we’re still a playoff team. I’m not trying to bag on you for your opinion, we’re all entitled to our own, but if you honestly think giving up two future first rounders for… Read more »
Testified. See what Blatt can do with the young core unless the ideal trade becomes a possibility. After watching Blatts offensive I was convinced that he can get players to at the minimum play up to their potential. I was terrified that Dion was getting dealt. I assumed it would happen for no other reason than I bought a swank Waiters throw back jersey last year and every player I buy a jersey of gets dealt.
Love does NOT want to play in Cleveland. When the Cavs pushed on a trade for Love he had his agent make clear that he would NOT sign an extension with the Cavs. Belatedly, Love indicated that he would re-sign with the Cavs if Lebron was on the team. Duh! Pretty much everyone would love to play with Lebron – he the best basketball player in the world and he loves to pass and play defense. The Heat drafted Napier, in part, to show Lebron they will make moves to keep him. Wade and Bost will restructure and the Heat… Read more »
Even with Napier, the Heat are about the 10’th most attractive team for LeBron. Only inertia will keep him there.
Who knows what LeBron thinks and will do, but I doubt if he looks forward to switching teams every year or two. The obvious place to be is somewhere with a lot of young talent, so he can finish his career in style. Sorry Dirk.
Meh. Just because something was reported doesn’t mean it’s true. And next year is a long way off. A lot can change.
Napier and Bosh make a team attractive? That’s weird. Allen is on his last tendon, Wade should retire, and Battier did retire. That team is about as attractive as the 07 cavs maybe less depending on who you think is better 2015 Bosh or 07 Z.
But now do we move waiters or do we keep him and what could we get from him I personally would like to see us trade him for an embiid we would have to add picks to that but I think it would be worth it
no. You don’t trade somebody just because you drafted somebody.
well done, Mr. Griffin. Well done.
Yes, Pelton’s projection for Wiggins was lower than for other players. If you just look at that number you might conclude that he thinks Wiggins is a lot worse than Parker. But it’s not that simple. Pelton thinks Wiggins will be a very good defender and would take him over Parker if he were running the Cavs. His words: “Pelton: Neither of these guys are clear franchise pillars. Parker has the better projection. He comes out, I think, eighth on my board, whereas Wiggins is actually down in the 20s. But I think when you look at their individual defense,… Read more »
As I posted before, wing defense in HIGHLY over-rated in the NBA. I’m sure some of you will cry “LeBron” but one example does not data make. Defense from bigs is basically ALL THAT MATTERS.
I remember reading something a while ago from the Sloan conference that said Bigs all basically provide the same amount of defensive and that the variance between a great big and an average big defensively isn’t much. It seems like a ton, but it isn’t. The idea the paper was pushing was that a wing or guard who is able to shut down another player and limit them by even just a few points is more important because most teams don’t have that. Wing defense isn’t highly rated in the NBA, it isn’t something a lot of players possess, so… Read more »
KJ – not sure if this is just your opinion, or if you have some kind of convoluted stats to back it up. Regardless, I can say from watching NBA games, it’s obvious that high effort on defense is often the difference between winning and losing. Lazy defense is one reason the cavs lost so many games last year. Even when this team was hot they would shoot 55% and give up 60%.
KJ- I have to take issue with the “defense from bigs is all that matters” statement.
Miami: no real center- 4 straight championships.
Houston: best center in the league – out in first round. Poor defensive a team.
However- keep fighting the good fight on analytics. I’m with you bro.
To reiterate to the readers- The WARP system rated 22 individual players drafted in the lottery in the last 7 years as non-lottery players…..and ONLY ONE became an all-star (Westbrook). That’s over 95% accuracy, folks. It’s not a good sign.
I don’t think they’re throwing analytics out the window. They’re just using them differently. Peltton’s ridiculous rookie rankings is more to stir up conversation, but not to be taken that seriously IMO. I mean Philly was #1 last year and #8 this year in Peltons ranking and all I see is some serious concerns about creating a culture of losing. They aren’t a team on the rise anytime soon but I guess are highly regarded by Pelton. Well good job! I’d rather be rated poorly by the Simmons and Peltons but actually win games, which I hope to see next… Read more »
You cannot “use them differently!” In what way, pray tell, are they using them differently? None of the picks project as good picks. NONE. They clearly did not give analytics a place at their table this year. That’s fine. But don’t try bad pretend they’re “using them differently,” as they makes no sense at all…
I don’t pray, but I’ll tell you…. Perhaps they don’t weigh the information as heavily as Pelton does. Because comparing players to players in a small sample size at two different development points cannot be very accurate. And a rookie ranking is almost pointless IMO. Players aren’t robots! Now go away…
I was open to a trade down, but Wiggins was a safer option and provides a high ceiling. Landing this pick was a blessing and I’m glad Griffin didn’t get cute with it. Wiggins addresses the needs of a perimeter defender, a player with elite size and athleticism and off the ball offense. His usage being low is a good thing in my eyes even though it costs him in advanced stats. Blatt has never had an off the ball weapon with this type of athleticism. I’m glad that Gee is no longer in the rotation but he’s been a… Read more »
Yo!! The draft is over, we have who we have. Let’s all let go of what we think should have happened. Let it go for 51 weeks, and then we can see how things panned out. I know Nate will still be gripping about TT, even if he is an allstar!
I like what we have and think that most of our players potential won’t weights their trade value
. A part of me wants to see what Blatt and Lue can get out of Bennett, Waiters, Thompson, Zeller and Karasev before considering trading any if them.
good thing about the NBA is we get instant gratifcation or instant welp, that sucked because the NBA LV Summer Leage starts July 11.
I must truly be coming to terms with last night, as this made me laugh: http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2014/story/_/id/11143782/nba-draft-draft-grades-numbers
Not because I think Pelton is wrong, rather cuz it is like one last kick-in-the-nuts to guys like me before we move on to FA.
Btw, the two awful 2nd rd picks, along with Wiggins, CLEARLY point to an org who has essentially thrown any kind of analytics out the window. They passed up many better candidates to pick those two stiffs in he 2nd round.
If not listening to analytics got us Wiggins, while listening to analytics got us Thompson, I think that’s just fine.
Remember that they wanted Embiid, favored by “analytics.”
Wiggins shot the three better as the year went on, I’m sure that was important to them. He finished inside equal to Parker, granted some of that was transition. Stats are very important, just not Pelton’s.
For the 499th time, I didn’t just use Pelton’s numbers.
Do you even analytics, bro?
Do you even understand how analysis works? By the content of your postings, you seem to have literally no idea…
Using WARP, Pelton had Thomas Robinson as the 2nd best player in 2012. Not reliable modeling here largely because you extrapolating previous results from a different environment to project out. Also not considering dozens of variables added that could results in greater impact as predictors moving to the nba game.
Woot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!