5 on 5: Summer Pickup
2014-08-05We’re getting into the dog days of summer here. You know, when you’re dripping sweat and gasping for breath during that pickup game at the park with nine other crazy souls. With David Griffin and Co. in an apparent holding pattern until August 23rd, you and your fellow Cavs fans will have just a few subjects to discuss between games. So here’s five questions for you, answered by five CtB bloggers. Enjoy the run.
1.) A Kevin Love for Andrew Wiggins+Anthony Bennett trade adds (subtracts?) how many wins to next season’s team? How about the playoff picture?
Tom: Love’s SWAgR was about 12, meaning he produced about 12 wins himself. Anthony Bennett’s SWAgR was negative. I’ll assume that Bennett would produce about a win this season and Wiggins about two (grabbing Kawhi Lenoard’s rookie season as my comp). The Cavs go +9 regular season wins with this trade. Putting them from mid 50s to mid 60s. Usually I would never assume that things would work out seamlessly for the Cavs, but Love and LeBron are outlandishly better passers than the Cavs have had during the rebuild trade-asset-accumulation-process (or TAAP). The playoffs are murkier because, as we’ve seen in the past, PEDs match-ups can be game-changers. But the talent alone will take them to the Conference Finals. And if they’re healthy and firing on all cylinders, the Finals. I wouldn’t predict that without Love.
Robert: I’m going to use the 2010-11 Miami Heat as my barometer here. They were 58-24 while still figuring out a mess of stuff about how to play together, who’s team it was going to be, where Chris Bosh was going to play on the floor and whether LeBron was going to go full Ming the Merciless with his goatee and eyebrows in pursuit of his post-Decision villain role. They won 58 games because they had three of the most talented players in the league on their roster and many nights that was more than enough. I’m going to shoot a bit lower for a Cavs-with-Love team, just because there are more players on the Cavs roster (Love included) whose winning pedigree has yet to be fully determined. 56 wins is realistic. Keeping Wiggins and Bennett? Probably 48-50 wins this year. So, 6-8 win swing. In the playoffs, though, a Cavs team with Love could very realistically make the Finals. Without Love, they cap out in the Conference Finals or sooner, if they have the misfortune of meeting the Bulls in the second round.
Nate: I’m “all in” on bitterness here. Clearly, Andrew Wiggins and Anthony Bennett are destined to be traded to Minnesota. The Cavs and the NBA won’t even let us buy “Wiggins 21” jerseys from the Cavs team shop anymore. (To which I say “why?!”) So I’m picking -5 games. Love gets hurt within 10 games, and the Cavs lack of depth hurts them. I’m not hoping this happens, but I’m hunting for a Wiggins jersey on Ebay. I’m going to write “I told you so” on the front, and wear it to the first game Love misses with injury. I will also wear it for the entirety of the 14-15 season when Love is balling in L.A. And yes, I know. I’m a petty, ridiculous grouch.
David: For the Cavs this trade adds two to three wins. I just think back to those last Cavs teams with LeBron and how he dragged them to 60+ wins. Last season with the Heat he managed to win above fifty essentially by himself. The first year on the Heat when the the adjustment period was going on he won 58 games. He figures out how to win. Without Love the team should hit 50-53 wins and with Love they could reach 56 wins. In the playoffs, Love isn’t going to be as big of a deal solely because he hasn’t been in the playoffs ever. No one knows if Love can succeed on a team where he isn’t the primary scorer. LeBron will have the ball more in the playoffs and will take a ton of shots, and Irving will fall in line behind him handling the ball for stretches. The team is going to win the East if Derrick Rose isn’t healthy and will lose it if he is. Next year once the chemistry is set up, they should have a easy path to the Finals, with or without Love.
Mallory: First, lets preface all this with the fact that this year has essentially unfolded in my dream scenario. (Nate is vigorously nodding his head while reading this). I should probably get checked out for clairvoyance or something. I haven’t run the ESPN trade machine on this yet, but really there’s no point since Wiggins hasn’t played a game. Realistic expectations are that Wiggins would come in and be a plus defender and break even on offense. On the Cavs, he’d probably spend most of his time defending a team’s second option (there’s no way he comes in a better defender than LeBron currently is). On offense, sure, he can dunk, but he’s not a great spot up shooter yet, and that’s probably the biggest role he’d need to fill/ Bennett will come into this season a little more refined offensively, but he’s still a minus defender and basically does everything Love does but much, much less effectively. Love, on the other hand, is a great spot up shooter, a fantastic rebounder, and not as big of a hole on defense as he’s usually pegged. Adding all this up, and, as long as Love stays healthy (he will, given the fact that he’ll finally be in a winning situation) I see the difference of about 5 wins in the regular season and, more importantly, a real, actual chance at an NBA title. Remember how good Bosh was as a 3-and-D small baller? Love can be that x10.
2.) Who is most likely to have a breakout year: Irving, Thompson, or Waiters? Least likely?
Tom: If the Cavs play an up-tempo game (which they must) then I expect Irving to thrive, operating in the shadow of LeBron-centric defensive schemes. We’ve seen it in all-star games and Team USA scrimmages. When Irving gets to play the role of kid brother staying low to the ground and firing away every time he gets the ball on the wing, he’s dangerous. When he’s the head of the snake he sometimes overdribbles and can’t pass well out of double teams – this can kill the offensive flow. I expect his efficiency to rise at the expense of shots (which will be a godsend to all). I expect Thompson’s efficiency to improve but this may be the season where everyone stops projecting and recognizes he’s a limited player. Waiters could become an all-star caliber 6th man or be shipped out for pennies on the dollar. You never know what’s going to come out of the Dion Waiters’ Zone.
Robert: I’m going to say Irving, only because he will look more like the player we thought he was in his first two seasons than the inefficient ball-stopper we often saw last year. There will be some ball-handling hiccups and days when his spot-up game is still in progress but, overall, he will excel at not having to be the best player on the team. The opportunities he will have — as well as the other options — should make the game much, much easier for Irving than it was last year. My least likely is probably Tristan Thompson. I keep thinking about how much better playing with LeBron made Anderson Varejao look early in his career, before he developed a reliable shot from the elbow, but it would be shocking (to me, anyway) if Thompson even gets enough opportunities to exceed his career averages.
Nate: There just won’t be enough shots to go around for any of these guys to pump up their numbers too much. They’ll have to pick it up with defense and scoring efficiency to get much notice. Thompson’s going to go to the bench, so that goes double for him. The only “breakouts” possible are better defense and playoff appearances. I’m all for that. I’m picking “None of the Above” and going with Delly, who should thrive as the third guard off the bench, and become a League Pass favorite. That should get him some $$$ when he’s a restricted free agent next summer. Least likely? Waiters, who could go into a funk if he’s not getting looks. With a Kyrie, Love, LeBron lineup, Waiters really makes more sense coming off the bench, which won’t thrill him.
David: Dion Waiters is going to become an animal this year. He just keeps saying the right things things to media. Rick Fox raved about how angry and hardworking he has been during the USA select team practices on the last Hang Time podcast. Waiters is going to show LeBron he has what it takes to help the team, which is going to be his solid size and defense. Scoring isn’t going to be a problem for the team. Also, Waiters is probably going to be leading the second unit again this season, and he will find a way to show the league that he is better than the second unit by uplifting the second unit as a whole. Irving is going to struggle. This is going to be the first time in his career he isn’t the best player on his team, and he is going to have to rework his game to not involve always having the ball and to start playing this thing called defense. Yuck. Thompson is Thompson. Maybe he can push his stats into solid double-double status for the basketball reference page with LeBron giving him easy baskets off of pick and rolls or Dion Waiters bricking layups and giving him easy garbage buckets.
Mallory: The answer here depends on what should be considered “breakout.” Irving is closer to his ceiling than the others, but he’ll probably achieve the most this year. If he learns to move without the ball and shoot efficiently off a pass, watch out. Waiters has the potential to jump the highest, and has reportedly worked his butt off this off season. Expect to see greatly improved defense and some great spot up shooting, as well as good off-ball movement. Still, because of his relegation to the bench, it’ll be difficult to see his improvements translated to actuality. Tristan, while having the lowest ceiling, is the one poised for the biggest jump in statistical (and actual) improvement. Last year, Tristan was asked to do far more on than he should have on offense while also stuck in a strange rotation of other undersized PFs and centers. He’s not a shooter and can’t really do much with the ball in his hands. However, assuming Love is headed to the Cavs, TT will finally see a floor spaced so widely that he may finally get some easy open shots. His rebounding stats will drop, but the decrease in offensive touches will, hopefully, see the return of the bouncy defense that was once his calling card. I still think Tristan is a bit of a dud, given initial expectations, but the new-look Cavs will probably mean the most to him.
3.) Of other players rumored to be viable Cavalier targets (via FA or trade) which excites you the most?
Tom: Definitely Corey Brewer. And Gorgui Dieng less so. Brewer is one of those way over-hyped early, crapped on, and is now actually underrated. We just need to call this being Vince Carter’d. Brewer probably is more WIGGINS! than Andrew Wiggins is right now. And he’d certainly produce 75% of what Wiggins gives you in a year or two.
Robert: Outside of Kevin Love? I wouldn’t mind Ray Allen on this team. I’m interested in what happens when the pinata of available bigs bursts and we see if there’s any rim protection to be had at all. But I’m not crazy about any of them. Ekpe Udoh or Emeka Okafor? Either should come pretty cheap (for an NBA big).
Nate: Can I go with “none of the above” here, too? I guess Ray Allen would be fun to watch. He is the starting two-guard on the all-time “fundamentals” team, but forgive me if I don’t want to watch LeBron playing with a bunch of guys my age. The Cavs seem frozen until the apparently inevitable Love trade, so I’ll throw out a few names for 20 days from now: Ekpe Udoh, Bernard James (had himself a solid summer league and is a high character guy), Gustavo Ayon (if he’s healthy), and if they could find a way to keep from the Spurs from matching, Aaron Baynes. These are all low risk/high upside bigs.
David: None. Kevin Love doesn’t even get me going. Why can’t the Cavs trade for Larry Sanders or Nerlens Noel? Cleveland doesn’t need more scoring on this team. They should make opposing teams fear the paint without packing the paint and giving up tons of threes like last year. I wouldn’t mind taking a flyer on Ekpe Udoh to try and guard the paint. He wouldn’t have to worry about scoring and could only worry about shot blocking. He’d probably improve on defense with LeBron directing him.
Mallory: Obviously we know my obsession with Kevin Love, so that’s sort of where I begin and end when it comes to this current incarnation. The Cavs still have a big need at the 5 (note to Griffin and Blatt: take a cue from Pop and rest Andy as much as possible). Given that, I’d love to see someone like Andray Blatche, who is no longer than locker room cancer he once was, join the Cavs. Elton Brand might be a guy to target as well. I know Robert and Nate mentioned Udoh, who I love, but I’m just not sure the Cavs have the $ to get it done. The goal for Cleveland should be to find a either Brandan Wright-type, a young guy with potential that has never been fulfilled, or an Elton Brand-type, a vet who wants to get a ring. Ray Allen is would be a great addition, too, but only if his heart is fully in it.
4.) In light of the Paul George injury, which team will be the Cavs’ toughest competition for the Eastern Conference crown?
Tom: I’ll go with the Raptors because I just don’t trust the Bulls’ health. The Raptors are an athletic team with a ton of talent. They were too inexperienced last season to make a big playoff push.
Robert: The Bulls. No question. I know that the Love trade hasn’t officially happened yet, but I feel like it has so this is assuming he’s on the roster by the playoffs. The Wizards should be good and might put up a good fight. Charlotte, Miami and Atlanta are both legitimate NBA ball clubs. The Nets? Meh. Pacers? Meh now, unfortunately. But if things break right for the Bulls this year, they could be a monster.
Nate: I feel dirty for even entertaining this question. I would say the Bulls, but Thibs’ addiction to burning his teams out before the playoffs hasn’t been conquered yet. (I’d actually enjoy seeing Love go the Bulls, just so I could name their Gasol, Noah, Love big man trio “the Brittle Brothers.”) I’m sticking with my contrarian nature and picking Miami. Wade, Deng, and Bosh are all going to want to “stick it” to the Cavs. All three players sublimated their games last year: Deng for the Cavs, and Wade and Bosh for the Heat. Bosh will become the centerpiece of the Heat, now, and will go back to being a 20/10 guy. Deng will be healthy and his two-way play will be a good substitute for LeBron. If Wade’s knee is healthy, watch out. And we all know how LeBron can go to a strange psychological space in a weirdly emotional series. A series against the Heat is a hypothetical I don’t want to entertain.
David: The Miami Bosh will be so fun to watch this season. Everyone forgets Bosh was a post player when was on the Raptors, and he was averaging 24 points and 10 rebounds a game without shooting threes. Bosh shoots the three now, passes better, and is a better defender. Now, the world will see all of that in action. Add a pissed off and ready to win Luol Deng and the Heat are formidable. Dwayne Wade may bounce back after a poor playoffs and if he does that’s a beyond formidable team. Also, add in the fact that Chris Bosh will probably give LeBron some goofy handshake before the Cavs play them that will throw LeBron into an emotional desire to be back on the Heat for a game and you have a team that’s just competent enough to beat the Cavs. The Bulls will be formidable too if Derrick Rose is healthy. All the teams in the East have big questions about injuries attached to them. If Al Horford and Al Jefferson come back healthy, the Hawks and Bobcats could bulldoze any Eastern team, since no one has bigs that can cover those guys without changing how their teams have to play.
Mallory: First, my thoughts and prayers are with George, whose injury can only be described as horrific. The truth is that the Pacers were already, to some degree, on a down swing, especially given how ineffective Hibbert was in the latter half of the season and the playoffs. The bigger contender in the East, beyond Cleveland, is without a doubt the Bulls. This off-season they managed to dump their biggest cap-sucker (Boozer), add an underrated big (Gasol), grab a good shooter (Dougie McBuckets) and get back their best player (Rose), who will spend the next month+ working his way back into shape in high level competition – note: do NOT underrated how important and useful the FIBA tourny will be to Rose. He’ll have almost two months of serious basketball to regain confidence in his knees. Beyond the Bull the other popular choices are probably the Heat and the Wiz, but I don’t buy the the Heat as a real contender (sorry, but Wade/Bosh/Deng and a bunch of minor contributors don’t scream “WOW”) and the Wiz lost an important role player in Trevor Ariza. If I’d have to pick another team, it’s easily the Bobcats. They’ve got a lot of young piece who should get better (Zeller, MKG, Kemba, Bismack, Vonleh), added a near-all star in Lance Stephenson (who will alleviate some of the distribution duties that Kemba had to take, freeing him up for shooting) and a smart minor FA signing grabbing Marvin Williams.
5.) Do you anticipate the Cavs will explode out of the gate (the way the Celtics did in 2008) or will they struggle with a new coach and a completely overhauled roster?
Tom: No. Even with LeBron in tow, I expect there to be growing pains. It happened for the Heatles, it’s definitely going to happen to this Cavalier roster. Fortunately, LeBron won’t have to wrestle with playing the bad guy role or whether he’s “Robin” or whatever. It’s his team, everyone else is going to fall in line or be benched (or shipped out).
Robert: I don’t think they will be playing too many games where they just look like a mess, but there’s still enough youth on this roster that it’s unlikely the Cavs will be a juggernaut early. David Blatt should have them playing a much more tuned-in brand of basketball which alone would do wonders over last season’s team. Combine that with LeBron and possibly Love and you have enough talent and experience in place to keep everyone’s feet planted firmly on the bridge (as opposed to jumping from it) as this team finds its way. 13-7 through 20, though, seems right.
Nate: They could struggle. Dion and Kyrie are going to have to learn how to match intensity when they’re getting the opponent’s best game every night. As evidenced by the pivotal Atlanta game last spring, this is still an issue for Kyrie. Offensively, Love, LeBron, and Andy will keep the ball moving, but Kyrie and Dion are going to have to adjust to playing off the ball more. It’s going to frustrate them at times. And defense..? They’re still going to give up a lot of points. Blatt was really aggressive going after the perimeter defensively in summer league, and I expect to see that continue, but in the NBA where teams will easily make the extra pass, good passing teams will eat them up inside and out.
David: The Cavs will be a slow moving train that eventually loses their brakes and makes it the final destination in a terrifying but refreshing way since they’ll make up extra time by going crazy fast at the end of their journey. David Blatt is going to have to coach offense and defense with this team. That’s kind of an obvious statement, but last year it wasn’t. Mike Brown believed if the Cavs just played defense they would be a playoff caliber team as Kyrie and Dion took care of the offense. Adding LeBron James and possibly Kevin Love to the team complicates the offense to the point of needing to instill something that will keep the ball moving. Once Blatt gets a motion offense in place Kyrie and Dion, will click because it won’t be their decision to pass the ball, it will be the offense’s decision as whole. Defensively, the struggle continues. Blatt will try a different system to limit the amount of threes opponents get and that change is going to be hard on the young players. They’ll figure it out more quickly than last season since LeBron is a talker on defense and will guide the young ones. At the end of the season, they’ll crash and burn like a runaway train; but at the beginning of next season, that cashed in train insurance money will have them looking beautiful.
Mallory: The team is too well built to struggle as much as the Heat did at times, with guys who play distinct positions and have defined roles. The amazing thing about this Cavs roster, save for Kyrie and Dion, is that each player possesses some pretty distinct talents: Kyrie is a great ball handler who can shoot outside and and attack the rim, and, when he trusts his teammates, distribute the ball well. Love is a great spot up shooter who can also post up in a flash and will rebound well from anywhere on the floor, Andy is the energy guy who excels at the pick and roll and the pick and pop and makes a ton of ugly but effective baskets off offensive rebounds. Dion is the bench ignition who, when hot, can pretty much do anything. Lebron is clearly the focal point and can play any role asked. That may not be the 2008 Celtics, but it’s not too shabby. I doubt the Cavs will come out firing on all cylinders, but I don’t foresee the Hindenburg either.
Commentariat, give us your takes.
Yes, the cap problem is huge.
A month and a half ago over half of the Cavs fans were saying that Wiggins was going to be Lebron II. Their arguments were relentless and frequently derisive. It took resilience to stand against that onslaught.
WHERE DID ALL THOSE PEOPLE GO?
I’M STILL HERE!
Though I would say he’s guaranteed to be Iggy 2.0 and could be TMac 2.0. I wouldn’t put Bron 2.0 on him or anyone else.
But, ya know, TMac was REALLY good. I’m pretty sure I’d take prime TMac over whatever prime Love turns out to be.
Please tell me if I’m missing something: Kevin Love WILL NOT sign an extension upon being traded to the Cavs if he and his agent want to maximize profit. Kevin Love WILL seek a maximum contract following the 2014-15 season if he is not extended. IF Kevin Love signs a maximum contract the Cavs will have roughly $55 million tied up in 3 players (LeBron, Kyrie, Love) in the 2015-16 season. Other players signed through the 2015-16 season include Dion ($5.1 mil), Tristan ($6.8 mil), Haywood ($10.5 mil), Mike Miller ($2.9 mil), and Dellavedova ($1.1 mil), raising the salary total… Read more »
Didn’t know about the removal of sign-and-trade deals, which makes it even worse. Does that mean we can’t receive a sign-and-trade, or send one? Either way it’s bad but obviously the first is worse for us since Haywood’s contract becomes almost useless without the ability to receive someone in a S&T.
Do you mind if we actually win 1 championship before we start complaining that we won’t have a dynasty?
Even though I’m firmly against trading Wiggins, I think the Love detractors are reaching. Love is clearly the best stretch four in the NBA. I think he’s a top 10 player. (Better, imho: Lebron, KD, CP3, Anthony Davis, Westbrook, and Tim Duncan because of his leadership). 1. It deosn’t matter how many additional regular season wins Love adds – they’ll win 50+ games either way. The Cavs will likely win the Eastern Conference this year and should have a decent shot at the Championship – even in year one. I think Blatt and Lebron will figure things out by mid-season.… Read more »
Forgot to add, I think Blatt will prove to be a top 5 coach. He’s a huge upgrade.
I want to touch on another argument for a moment – What’s the obsession with flexibility? Why the need to have a TON of cap every year? As long as you have an owner with deep pockets, there’s no need to constantly keep your options open in the name of talent. Assuming the Love trade (with the Cavs getting NOTHING in return), the Cavs have will have 6 high level rotation guys under contract for as long as they want (Lebron, Love, Kyrie, Dion, TT, and Andy). They’ll have SOME picks over the next few years, plus the midlevel to… Read more »
Why do you think LeBron left the Heat? Because they had no flexibility, so he had no help, and they could not win it all. As you watched the finals, didn’t you think he would be smart to come back to the Cavs? I and others posted that thought many times on CtB. While I think there is a lot of truth in “the letter”, I am not so sure it would have gotten written if the Heat could have kept winning. Don’t you think the Cavs should try to avoid having the same thing happen? DG might have MILLIONS,… Read more »
LeBron left because the team was bad. Wade is done and Bosh is leaving his prime and is not dominant enough. The Heat also had ZERO young guys with talent and no picks. The Cavs would have Love entering his prime, Kyrie as an All-Star who has tons of room to grow, and TT and Dion as young talents that they control. Plus a few other young guys who could turn into role players in Delly, Joe Harris, and Powell. Plus the space to always add vets via the MLE, the bi-annual, and the vet minimum. Plus some draft picks.… Read more »
I couldn’t have said it better by myself. I feel like this sums up the entire argument perfectly.
So the Cavs traded for the Love?
The Heat are going to make the playoffs…but there is no way they make noise. Wade is a shell. Has been for two years. What’s with all the support for them to be problematic?
Maybe someone can explain to me why no one has thought of this….Why doesn’t Lebron tell Love to make the following statement: “I won’t sign any long-term contracts with any team, but the Cavaliers?” No team would pursue Love and Minnesota would have to get rid of him by February to get ANY value out of him. Cleveland would be the only team that would facilitate a trade. They could then offer a more realistic package of Bennet and a future first rounder. Two first round picks for a player who’s leaving? That’s more than fair. The Cavs would get… Read more »
i think his agent did this. If Love came out and said it it would really be seen as a bush-league move.
It might be bush-league, but Minnesota is raping Cleveland for a player that has already said he’s not coming back. The only reason Cleveland is giving in is because Lebron wants to win now and doesn’t want to miss out on Kevin. Having to give up two number one players and potentially two more number one picks is ludicrous.
Can write into the trade that the Cavs get a #1 pick back if Wiggins makes the All Star team by year 3 or 4? Just wondering.
Nate Silver at fivethirtyeight calculated that the Cavs as currently constituted would be around a 52 win team. Adding Kevin Love would get them to 63 to possibly 67 wins. I agree with this. I see them winning about 50 or so with the current team, adding Love nets them 10 more wins. It is a really good article if you haven’t read it. http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/what-cleveland-would-look-like-with-lebron-james-and-kevin-love/ I would like to see what else the Cavs could possibly bring back in the trade, I would really like to see them pick up Gorgui Dieng as part of this deal and hope he… Read more »
Meh. Fivethirthyeight also gave Brazil a 73 percent probability that they would beat Germany in the World Cup semi-finals. Even after accounting for losing their best player and losing the stabilizing force in their defense, there was still a 65 percent probability that they’d beat Germany. We all know how that ended up… Wait, it’s soccer, some of you might not: Germany beat Brasil 7-1 on their home field. Very rare feat. I have trouble believing Silver now. 63 to 67 wins is a whole lot for a team with a new nucleus and a new coach. I really hope… Read more »
1. Love should add 9 or so wins this year. On top of the 22-23 wins LBJ adds and the natural aging curves of the roster I think they’ll win 57-62 games. 2. All three will improve. If you mean most improvement over last year Thompson has the most room to grow. Waiters might start but he’ll run the second unit. I think he’ll see the most growth in. O APM and DPM. He’s ripped. 3. Love, but I think Deing might be in the deal. It’s strange that we have heard nothing of Griffin trying to find a center,… Read more »
Um WHAT? Guys, realize what you’re advocating for! Kevin Love is a TOP 10 PLAYER. If you did fantasy draft where every NBA team could pick a player consecutively, Kevin love would be picked TOP 10. Wiggins is great, Noel looks good, and Thad is a fine player, but the chances ANY of them reach TOP 10 STATUS is SLIM. Realize that for a moment. Think about all the great players on every team – Kevin Love gets picked before MOST of them. The Cavs are already deep! What is the obsession with gathering decent players? When has that ever… Read more »
Yep.
I’m not really wanting to trade Wiggins because I think he’s going to be a star. At the same time though, I want Kevin Love. So I’m totally OK with this trade. It really does make us Finals favorites in the East (we may be already, but I’m less sure). I don’t know why people are freaking out or getting mad at the idea of having Leb, Love, and Irv on the team.
If you aren’t excited about this or are actually upset about it you are pretty nutty.
It’s like this: I’m on a game show and you give me the choice between two doors. Door number one has a guaranteed $500,000 behind it, with a solid chance for $5,000,000 more. Door number two has a guaranteed $750,000 behind it, with a solid chance for $1,000,000 more. I’m pretty likely to take door number one. But I won’t be unhappy with door number two. I just think door number two is a poor choice in this situation. That’s the thing; just because I think trading Wiggins for Love is a bad idea doesn’t mean I won’t think having… Read more »
+1 for what Mallory just said. The detractors are getting ridiculous. Griffin will do the right thing.
Mallory – One way to pour some cold water on the detractors is to write a post on 19 year old top 5 picks, and look at how many ever become great, and how long it takes them to become great. LeBron has maybe 5 years left in his prime. Waiting on Wiggins is definitely the riskier play.
Let’s limit it to number one overall picks and look to see how many of them are great by season three, shall we?
There’s a HUGE difference between top five and number one, and it’s not unfair to compare AW to past number one overall guys. Anthony Bennett is obviously a tier or three lower, but c’mon, let’s not pretend AW is your typical top five pick.
Part of the issue is differences of opinion on AW. I was never a huge fan. I had him below Embiid and Parker until Embiid got hurt. So my view is that the AW fans are wildly over optimistic about his prospects. He is an elite athlete, but has a LONG way to go to be an effective offensive player. Also, the idea that he is an elite NBA defender right now is lunacy to me. Again, he is an amazing athlete, but defense in the NBA is much more. I like AW and see why people are afraid to… Read more »
Love IS a top-10 player, but not at the position we need! We have depth at the 4, we need to be trying for an elite center.
So, if you think Noel + Young is ludicrous, how about Wiggins for DeMarcus Cousins (obv. the deal would need a lot more parts).
Mallory Your underselling Kevin Love. In a keeper draft like your talking about it goes 1)Durant (over LBJ because of age), 2) LBJ 3) Anthony Davis 4-5) Love/George. 6-7-8) Curry/Harden/Griffin maybe Howard depending on how long you think his back will hold up. Love is a top 5 player right now and he will continue to be for a long time. Wiggins will probably never be that good.
The point being, that yes, Love is a Top 10 fantasy player, but not a Top 10 NBA player. I’ve argued this ad nauseum, so I won’t rehash. He’s more top 25 based on his defense, and about how his rebound numbers (which won’t be duplicated on the Cavs) tend to inflate his wins shares and PER. Anyway. Despite your use of ALL CAPS, you can’t defend the biggest problem with this trade. Nothing but your magical thinking keeps Love from walking in a year.
About a month ago there was a debate on “svp and russillo”with one guy arguing that Love is a top 10-15 player, and the other guy a 25-30 player. I am going with the middle, and rating him in the 15-25 area for NBA (not fantasy). In the last couple weeks the fantasy fans have been pushing Love to top 10 and now even top 5. No doubt, it will be top 2 by next week. Anyone who has actually played basketball knows there is a lot more than being a good shooter to winning games. But there are way… Read more »
Nate – There’s no way Love leaves if the Cavs have even a little success. It’s been publicly thrown out since the Draft that he’s interested in being with the Cavaliers if Lebron is around. Look, I LOVE Wiggins – if the Cavs can keep him AND get love, I’d be ecstatic. But you can’t pass up on a guy who is already so valuable for the prospect of a good player. Even if Love ends up blowing out his knees and Wiggins ends up a megastar, I’ll still defend the idea that you go after a guy like Love.… Read more »
No way? And you’re basing this on what? Oh yeah. The unicorn told you.
I like your thinking, David.
Nerlens Noel + Thaddeus Young for Andrew Wiggins + 1 of (Bennett/Thompson/Haywood whatever makes the salary match)
1) +5 Wins with Love. His passing makes others so much better. Bennett is a guy who is right around even in terms of wins, and Wiggins as a rookie won’t move the needle that much either. 2) Waiters most likely to breakout. Why on earth does Mallory think he’ll be coming off the bench? Wiggins will be guard, are you guys penciling in Harris to start? Ray Allen at 39? No, it will be Dion. He’ll take a seat quickly and then come back to run the 2nd unit. Least likely is Thompson. He’ll be more efficient, like he… Read more »
Jason – If Dion starts I’ll be shocked. There is no point in starting someone just to say they started, then immediately moving them to the bench. The last thing the Cavaliers need to do, assuming Love is around, is add a FOURTH guy who needs touches. Starting Miller who, by the way, is a superior defender to Waiters at the moment, gives the Cavs a 3-and-D option to start games and immediately space the floor. Dion will likely be first off the bench, when either Kyrie or Lebron sits, which makes total sense in terms of touches. Dion being… Read more »
I agree that whether or not Waiters starts will be dictated more by skillsets than talent/production.
That being said, Mike Miller is one of the worst defenders in the league right now. Not that Dion Waiters is a +defender, but, he’s much less bad than MM.
What about starting Jones and Haywood. Then Jones being a 3 and D 2guard. Then Heywood being the rim protector. The 2nd unit then is also incredible with Dion Delly Andy Miller and TT. Which is better than any of our lineups last year
Seriously, Mal? Mike Miller a better defender than Dion? The only guy who might start over Dion is Delly. The Cavs are too thin at guard to start anyone else, and Jones/Miller are defensive turnstiles.
initially I was excited about the possibility of allen being a cav but the most recent rumor of ” the matrix ” marion interest in the cavs has got me more excited ( I would choose marion over allen at this stage in their careers ) is it possible to sign both marion and udoh —like him as a primary rim protector
Flexibility concerns are legit, but even if we cap ourselves out by completing the Love trade, but Haywood’s non-guaranteed contract still gets us in the ballpark for even another near-max guy next year. My dream scenario would see the cavs pick up a signed and traded Al Horford next year. Book it.
I’m fine with that, if Gilbert is willing to spend it. I just am not counting on it. Even he has his limits.
I agree about Horford’s limits, and I know he’s had his injuries too. I just like his smart all around game. If not him, I’m sure we’ll be able to turn Haywood into something. Gilbert spent loads of money the first time, so hopefully he’ll continue to do so and we can rip off some fun seasons before the next lockout takes BBall away again.
I’ll say it once more here: contracts matter.
Please stop ignoring that we’d be paying Kevin Love four times more than Andrew Wiggins to produce probably twice the wins starting in the 15-16 season.
Looking at “let’s just get good players” is half the equation. Getting good players for cheap is how you win. Yes, Gilbert is willing to go over the cap and pay some luxury tax, but even then our flexibility is completely annihilated.
This line of thinking that we absolutely must get a big three RIGHT NOW is absurd and short sighted. Ugh. I can’t even.
We’ve heard you. For some reason, you continue to ignore that if Wiggins becomes what you think he will become, then our flexibility is annihilated either way. And heck even if Wiggins “only” becomes a Kawhi Leonard or Andre Iguodala caliber player, then we still are going to be capped out as Waiters, TT, Bennett, and Wiggins come off their initial rookie deals.
There really isn’t as big of a difference here in our salary flexibility moving forward as you seem to think.
The difference is that Wiggins wouldn’t be getting paid big money for another 3-4 years, which gives us 3-4 more years to shuffle the roster and make sure we can keep who we wanna keep. With Love, we are hamstrung within a year.
Exactly. With Wiggins we can afford to re-sign DW and TT for 8-10mil/year for three years when their contracts come up. You can assume Gilbert is willing to pay an infinite amount of luxury tax if you’d like, but I’d much rather not make that bet. He wants to win, but if he’s spending an extra $30m on a $10m contract…well, I wouldn’t count on it for sure. Future trades are also much more possible without Love. Ultimately, my argument is this: I think Kevin Love produces probably about $25m worth of wins/year on this team. He’ll cost us $22m/year.… Read more »
Without Love we are also hamstrung within a year! I don’t understand how this doesn’t make sense to some of you. If we do re-sign DW and TT for those amounts, then we are capped out next year. Kyrie’s rookie max kicks in and LeBron’s max is on the books.
We literally will be up against the cap just as quickly with or without Kevin Love!
TT is due a contract next year.
Dion in the next year or two.
Bennett in 5 years.
Wiggins in 7 years.
We are going to be so far over the cap whether we get Love or not. Flexibility is gone regardless because we’re trading away the 2 who we control the longest and keeping the two who will be owed the most. One we owe a favor to due to Lebron agent relationship and another who will not take a hometeam discount (not that he should).
Agreed. Not sure I see how Minnesota gained the leverage to get exactly the guys they want when we could at least wait to trade for Love midseason. Wiggins could always remain on the table in case any better offers come up and we need to pull the trigger right away. Most disappointing is that I have yet to see any fellow armchair GMs address how they would manage the massive contracts on the Cavs… following YEAR 1 when Love is asking for his own new contract. Dan Gilbert may be willing to spend his left nut to win in… Read more »
The thing about waiting to pay guys like TT, Dion, Wiggins, Bennett, etc down the line is that other vets like Varejao, Haywood, Mike Miller, etc. start to come off the books. Options remain open, trades remain possible (and more appetizing assuming those younger players improve). When Kevin Love demands a new contract after a single season on the Cavs, we immediately lose the flexibility to extend those younger players we retain.
You do realize its a soft cap, right? We can extend whoever we want even if we have Love and are over the cap. That is how the CBA works. As others have pointed out, it will get expensive for Gilbert because of the luxury tax issue, but, in principle, acquiring Love does not limit us from extending the young guys on the roster.
there are also a number of rules in the CBA that are similar to a hard cap for teams spending like $4 million over the apron… Or something like that. I was just reading about it and its a very real concern for what the Cavs are looking to do
Lets compare.
Situation 1) Love 15 million this season then 20 mill over each of the next 4. Ages 25-30
Situation 2) Wiggins+ Bennett=11 mill in 2014, Wiggins+Bennett+2 first round picks 14 Million in 2015. Wiggins then hits 7 million and Bennett is most likely gone. Then he’s due 16 million at minimum if he’s half of what you say.
During this time we never have cap space. I’m taking Love and shelling out the extra 6 million a year.
Cavs Team Shop has sold out of regular Wiggins jerseys, but this bad boy is still available: http://store.nba.com/Cleveland_Cavaliers_Jerseys/Andrew_Wiggins_Cleveland_Cavaliers_adidas_Fashion_Replica_Jersey_%E2%80%93_Black
Sorry to burst your bubble, Nate.
Just going off the reports, Ross. http://www.newsday.com/sports/basketball/cavaliers-jersey-being-discontinued-might-be-sign-for-andrew-wiggins-1.8955529
You’re right, though, I didn’t research it myself.
Saying the Cavs LOSE five wins by shipping out a rookie and a second year player who had one of the worst first years in NBA history is quite possibly one of the dumbest things written in the history of this site.
Until Nate can quite being giant baby about acquiring a top ten NBA player for two guys who a minimum of two years away from making a significant impact you should probably just stop asking his opinion.
Can I play? 1) I say Love adds 8-10 wins- THIS year. But as Wiggins develops, the advantage of the trade slowly recedes in subsequent years. 2) Tristan Thompson. He will play on a team that finally has the floor spacing to suit the role he was born to play- an athletic garbage man. His rebounding numbers will go down, as he loses court time to Love….but I think he averages 14-15 points on put backs and nifty passes on cuts to the rim. Kyrie and Dion will have growing pains figuring out how to produce without the ball in… Read more »
Love your answer to #5, grover. I agree – this season is just going to be fun. We’re not walking into this season with “championship or bust” or “LeBron might leave” thoughts.
We can enjoy watching this team evolve and play fun basketball.
Put together a Big 3 and you win titles. The Heat did it. The Spurs did it. The Celtics did it. The lakers, etc.
Big three of Leb, Love and Irv win it all at least twice in the next 4-5 years.
Funny, didn’t Brooklyn think they had a big three or four this year?
Or how about NYK a couple years ago?
There are so many times it doesn’t work out. Just because you put three really good basketball players together doesn’t mean they win. Yes, winning teams typically have three really good players. But that doesn’t mean that all teams with three really good players win. It’s a very lucky subset.
Oh, and the Rockets had three excellent players last year if you count Parsons (I do). And the Warriors had four (Curry, Thompson, Iggy, Bogut). And the Thunder.
That was just last year. It happens all the time that teams have three great players and don’t win.
Oh and David Lee on the Warriors, too. That’s five all-star or near all-star players in GS.
Yes. I’m a bit put-off by the Championship predictions. A team’s odds may improve, but the lesson from your examples…? Its hard to win the NBA Championship.
LeBron is better than all of those players you just mentioned. In fact, he’s the best player in the world. Kevin Love is better than a lot of them too.
ALSO, if we’re in rehash mode, this season is a perfect example of why Jonas should’ve been drafted in 2010. Udoh is similar enough to TT that signing him for the midlevel would’ve been worth it, and with Jonas around the Cavs would have the center of the future already on the roster/another potential trade chip to reduce the need to trade Wiggins. The point? Don’t pass on a true C to draft an undersized PF unless he has exceptional talent. (another case in point? Derrick Favors over Boogie.)
You can’t look at it that way at all.
Butterfly effect – you take Jonas back then, chances are we don’t end up with 3 overall number one picks. Our record would be different, our player movement would have been different. Myabe we take Thomas Robinson the following year instead of Dion.
Injuries would be different.
Maybe Lebron stays in Miami this year. Pretty sure Wiggins would be elsewhere too.
JV is a butterfly effect I agree. Nerlen Noel is most likely not. Bennett didnt yield much. Noel would have sat for 3/4 the season. We still might have been in the spot for AW. I think Noel is going to be an elite defender and the sixers will be in quite the front court pickle “if” they get the tip pick in 2015. I cant foresee them passing on the Okafor kid. Then they would have Embiid, Noel and Okafor. Oy. I doubt they would trade one for Dion but it might be a thing that both sides could… Read more »
Josh, Nate, et. al. One of the biggest issues during the first Lebron era (and, really, the last four years) was the lack of top level players i.e. guys who proven talent ready to contribute. Having 5 sort of good guys on a team is a much tougher road to an NBA championship than having a few HIGH level talents, and then decent role players. Unlike Miami of a few years ago, the Cavaliers are not lacking in young talent that can contribute, even without Wiggins and Bennett. Furthermore, Dan Gilbert is very much willing to cross the luxury threshold… Read more »
The thing is, Mallory, we have at least three guys right now who absolutely are HIGH level talents in LBJ, Kyrie, and AW. We also have a ton of flexibility because AW is on his rookie contract. We’re not winning a title next year either way. I think most everyone agrees with that. So why make this move now? If nothing else, we can trade AW/AB and picks next off-season if things don’t look like we have enough. Or at the deadline. There’s absolutely no rush to make this move unless you earnestly think this deal gets us a championship… Read more »
I agree with Mallory completely.
Wiggins hasn’t played yet, he’s a high level talent, but KLove is Top 10.
I don’t understand why people think we “aren’t winning a title either way”, Are you nuts Josh? We have the best player in the league and could surround him with two ALL STARS. KI + Love.
KI, Dion, LBJ, Love, Andy with Miller, TT, Delly. That’s a rotation. LBJ took us to the finals with a much crappier team. Stop it.
A much crappier team that got blown away in the finals. The Spurs would still blow us away. And so would the Thunder, and probably the Clippers.
And that bench is absolutely terrifyingly bad, especially when our starting lineup has three guys that are majorly injury prone.
Couldn’t agree more with all of this except that we won’t have a ton of draft picks after trading for Love. It’s probably more accurate to say that we will (at best) have our own picks moving forward and no extra picks. Even that might be a stretch.
Ross G, you beat me to pointing out the obvious. Actually, I have some hope that in the unfortunate event that this trade goes through, the picks will flow from the TW’s to the Cavs, not the other way around. The TW’s have to trade Love, the Cavs DO NOT have to make a trade. If the TW’s have any dream of trading AW + AB for a one year rental of KL, they should toss in lots of picks before the Cavs come to their senses.
I didn’t want to see Wiggins go either but people need to put their pitch forks away. Love’s lack of playoff experience doesnt scare me at all. Everything won’t be on his shoulders. I get the risk of him leaving in a year but the media reports of him wanting to be in a major market are overrated-He wants to win.
If you’re expecting anything from Joe Harris, you’ve already lost your argument.
Clearly Joe Harris is far from the crux of his argument..so not sure that’s fair at all.
Yeesh. We get Kevin Love for the next 4-5 years. Nate is completely wrong in this situation. I love Wiggins and don’t want to lose him, but Kevin freaking Love paired with LeBron and Irving pretty much guarantees we make the Finals most of the time for the next half decade.
Nate is wrong. I can’t believe people are agreeing with him.
Nate’s point is that Love leaving after a year is a very real concern, albeit said like a harbinger of doom. Its a lot to give up for a guy who has a 30% chance of being an injury-riddled rental
I’m with you 100% Cols. Love will be 26 this year. Your core of LBJ, Love, and KI fits great together. You potentially develop Dion, TT and other rooks as you add the right vets alongside Andy.
It’s not a perfect team by any means, but I love it.
Also, I think Bennett is a LONG way from being a consistent contributor LBJ needs. If you watched all the summer league games, Bennett is lighter and better inside, but his shot selection is ridiculous. You need knock down guys, KI and Dion can get there, alongside Lebron.
And how are you so sure we lock up Love for 4-5 years? Why would he sign a monster deal now and not follow Lebron’s path of waiting for the next CBA? Why not swing that deal in February or the following year when he can be fully controlled? Same questions every time.
I’m cynical like Nate. I see a team completely assembled in one season with a lot of confusion on what roles are going where. Blatt has his work cut out for him.
I agree about Tristan blowing up this season. I think he’ll come alive with Lebron (and others) out there. He seems to want to get better (not think he’s already there) and has the athletic ability to do so. Blatt will be good for him.
Each article that comes out is going to put a bigger chip on Wiggin’s shoulder whether they are based on fact or not.
I’m in Nate’s camp with this one. This trade is like a girl that looks good and seems like she’s a no brainer to pursue, and because of the looks you don’t even think about the baggage (difficulties) you might be taking on. Plus, no doubt someone else will be pursuing her a year from now. 1) How many more wins? My optimistic side says 5-7. He is good, but that’s what he adds that we don’t already have.. 2) Who will have a breakout year? David said that Dion is going to be an animal this year. I agree.… Read more »
BTW – I was strongly against this trade because of cap concerns, depth concerns, injury concerns, long term potential of players being traded, and a worst case scenario of gutting the team (losing promising players and picks) and then have something go wrong with Love or LeBron. ANY ONE of those items coming to pass can mess everything up. I have softened my stance, however, for three reasons: 1) I was Bennett’s biggest supporter, but after summer league I think that he is an extremely talented individual – but something is missing. It could he is young. I now think… Read more »
I’m okay with your points one and two, but point three I just can’t get behind. No one has EVER traded a guy thought of as a potential superstar for a star (yes, star, not superstar – there are only two, maybe three of those in the league currently. Could be four by the end of next year depending on AD) on an expiring contract. It just doesn’t happen, and for good reason. It just doesn’t make economic sense.
I’m with Nate. I see this whole thing being a disaster. Even if Love is at 100% this year, we don’t win a title. Starting next year, Wiggins + Bennett + Draft picks is probably roughly equivalent to Love as far as what they can bring for total wins, because we can deal Bennett with increased value, those picks, and Haywood in one hell of a sign and trade. Doing things to “Win NOW!” is exactly what killed the Cavs in Lebron’s last stint here. It led to the Knicks and Nets being generally awful. That philosophy has killed so… Read more »
Great comment. Wholeheartedly agree.
Completely, disagree. You can’t compare the Cavs’ previous desire to win now vs. getting a top-10 player like Kevin Love. Guys like Mo Williams, Ben Wallace, aging Z, and Larry Hughes weren’t anywhere close to what Love is. The scenarios are totally different. We jettisoned 1st rounders and flexibility at will for 3rd-level guys who peaked with LBJ. Now, we can make the Love trade and still keep roster flexibility with movable contracts: TT, Andy, Haywood, and rookie deals. We also have a handful of picks to move if we want. When you have a chance to pair an All… Read more »
Keith hits the nail on the head.
Keith, you nailed it. To compare the “win now” signing of Larry Hughes, Jones, and Donyell Marshall to that of acquiring a top 5 player in the league who is TWENTY FIVE YEARS OLD is just plain crazy. Apples and oranges. I complete “reach” argument fueled by emotion. If you have the ability to add Kevin Love to LeBron James, Kyrie Irving, and Dion Waiters, you do it. I PERSONALLY would like to wait until the deadline (or next year) because I am very high on Bennett and Wiggins, but I completely understand the rationale if they do it now.… Read more »
Larry Hughes had his best statistical year on a 45 win team that went nowhere. We acquired him, asked him to play winning basketball, and he couldn’t deliver.
Some would say Kevin Love had his best statistical year on a 40 win team that went nowhere. Our own bloggers expressed concerns about Kyrie and Love being able to play winning basketball. I’m not sure its ‘just plain crazy’ to compare the situations.
For the record, I love Kevin Love. And…I don’t really believe most of what I just said.
You might be right in disagreeing about the value of Love vs. the stiffs from last time.
But it is a lot harder to disagree that Love is likely to be worth less than AW + AB + draft picks after a year or two.
And even if you think Love will ultimately be as good as AW + AB put together, you still trade two inexpensive rookie contracts for a max contract.
Raoul, that’s now how this works. You can’t combine players that way to make a comparison in today’s NBA. Bill Simmons talks about this in his trade value column every year.
I think Bennett is a LONG way away from a reliable rotation player. I think Wiggins is an incredible talent, top notch. But, we can add Love now, in his prime, and get ready to rock the East with title chances.
Raoul Max contracts are generally the best Value in the NBA (though Irving may be the exception). Bennet is already overpaid and his biggest value to us right now is as an expiring contract. Right now his ceiling is likely a useful backup power forward on a playoff team. Wiggins Ceiling is likely is Lebron but he will more likely be Andre Iguadala. Kevin Love is way better than that. Also salary cap flexibilty is for the sake of signing good players. So here is quick list of players that are definetly better than Klove. 1) Lebron Free agent next… Read more »
Wiggins+Bennett +2 first round picks cannot opt out after next year.
Assuming Love is already a Cav, I’m actually very excited about the possible addition of Shawn Marion that has been rumored. A combo of LeBron and Marion terrorizing the wings defensively could help us forget the impending departure of Wiggins awfully quick. I couldn’t think of a better pickup; we will be needing wing D more than rim protection this next season.
THE MATRIX RELOADED. Yes, please.
This.. I think Tristin might spend an awful lot of time this year at back up C since his inability to guard out to the 3 point line has been well documented and we simply don’t have anyone else to fill that role. Does anyone want to see the reanimated corpse of Brendan Haywood wander around the paint? I sure as hell don’t
“his inability to guard out to the 3 point line has been well documented”
In a Mike Brown defense, when the Center shows hard on a pick and roll, the lane is completely wide open. The PF has to rotate on any threat of penetration. When the offensive PF can stretch the floor, the defensive PF has to make a choice. Wide open layup, or wide open jumper?
Mike Brown’s defense doesn’t work in the modern NBA. Tristan is fine. What he was being asked to do last year was not.
I agree that Miami will be the toughest team the Cavs play in the playoffs. Not the Bulls. I’m so sick of hearing how tough the Bulls will be and then they get beat as usual in the playoffs. They are a fantastic regular season team that just doesn’t have enough in the playoffs.
The Pacers were no threat at all even before George’s injury. That team peaked in the first half of next year and then looked awful the rest of the way. The Cavs with Love are a 60+ win team. It’s going to take a bit to figure out how everyone fits, but a team with Leb, Love, Irving, Waiters, Miller, Varajeo (for 30 games or whatever) is a pretty awesome team. They are probably guaranteed to make the Finals and can easily challenge anyone that comes out of the West, event the Spurs and their Big 3. The biggest detriment… Read more »
I think guaranteeing the Finals is a bit premature.
The talent is obviously there. But when your most talented players outside of LeBron have never played a meaningful game in their career (Love, Irving, Waiters, Thompson), you’re going to have some growing pains in the playoffs. The talent can definitely overcome all of that, but I don’t foresee a “guaranteed” trip to the Finals in year 1, even with Love.
I’m willing to guantee 58 wins and think 65 is reachable. This offense will be nearly as good as the Spurs was last year out of the gate. These guys fit perfectly on offense. Not just the first team but the second team too. I could see Hayward and Jones starting over Andy and Dion just because a spot up shooter and rim protector fit and Dion, Delly, Miller TT and Andy is an absolutely devastating second unit. That is a 10 deep team without including Ray Allen/Marion/or a center (Baynes would be awesome). Just thinking about the passing on… Read more »
Haywood’s corpse isn’t starting (or likely) giving us any meaningful minutes at all. Sorry to burst your bubble.
He didnt play last year but the year before he played 60 games. He can be at least Joel Anthony for 15 minutes a game
Great read, guys.
Cannot wait. I get chills thinking about the smallball lineup of Love, James, Miller, Waiters, Irving – a floor-spacing nightmare for opponents. Also, Thompson/Andy/Love give you what could possibly be the best o-rebounding three man big rotation..like…ever. Fire at will, boys, lol.
This offense will be bananas, but we are currently SO soft inside. Shot blockers don’t grow on trees, but we at least need a sturdy bruiser with an attitude like an Ivan Johnson type. Even old, slow Shaq greatly inproved our interior defense back in 2010.