Mailing it In: Quick Takes
2014-08-08
Yesterday’s Kevin Love Wojbomb caught us unawares. We were timing our responses for August 23rd. With the CtB staff scattered across the globe: on vacation, moving, or working we sadly had no one on hand to give this monumental development the hard hitting response it deserves. Instead of sounding the conch call, and resounding the words “CtB Staff, assemble!“, we jumped in the air and then chipped in to give you some #HotSportsTakes and maybe a roster move or two.
Tom: if the details are true then this moves makes sense even as I think Wiggins will be a monster. I do find it premature that so many folks think Waiters doesn’t fit and should be moved. The Cavs must complement LeBron Love and Irving with youth and athleticism. Dion could fit quite well. A guy the Cavs could add? Kevin Love clone beta release .78: Josh Harrelson (profile courtesy of CtB alum, Kevin Hetrick).
Ben: Blatt has something up his sleeve, defensively. He has been known to play a bit of matchup zone. I think we will see that a lot more than we would have otherwise. A rim protector erases a lot of mistakes in PnR D but if the offense is facing a zone, PnR is obviously less effective. We have spent a lot of time focusing on the downside of trading Wiggins, but the upside is pretty ridiculous. I continue to believe Andy’s injury issues are overblown. It wasn’t particularly advantageous for him to push through in recent seasons. Assuming he is healthy, we should have the best rebounding team in the NBA by far. Especially if Love gets back into the paint some more. I can’t wait to see this lineup: Andy, Love, Bron, Miller, Dion. Huge with shooting. In a match up zone, the length and basketball IQ makes up for some quickness issues. Offensively, holy scheiße!
Robert: I get it, Cavs fans. There’s an adjustment period whenever you go from expecting your team to fair poorly to expecting to cheer for a winner — when you trade incremental change for seismic, league-altering improvement. But here we are. I’ll paraphrase Mike Miller (God, who would have expected I’d be doing THAT): championship or bust aspirations make the game less fun than it should be. We’ve got a team now that can give some good game. For a moment, let’s enjoy that prospect.
Now, with what little room the team has left, they should bring in Emeka Okafor for a spin around the court. I say this based entirely on him being the one-dimensional player that lacks everything-but-that-dimension Cavs need most.
Nate: I’ll always have a soft spot for Andrew Wiggins. I’ve not been this excited about a rookie since Paul Pierce fell to the Celtics. So I really hope ‘Drew lives up to his potential. Flushing lobs from Love’s setup man, Ricky Rubio, will help. Flip Saunders may not (though he did guide Garnett…). Anyway, back to the Cavs. They’re certainly going to rebound well, and if the Cavs start Delly (which they should), they may be the best passing team I’ve ever seen. Think about it this way: Kyrie might be the worst passer in the lineup with floormates LeBron, Andy, Love, and Delly. That’s a bit of an exaggeration, but you get my drift. The sets available on offense are limitless: hi/lows, pick and roll, post-ups, drive and kick, back door cuts, and outlet pass alley-oops galore.
Defensively, I totally buy what Ben is selling: the defense was really extending in summer league. If that continues, lots of aggressive play on the perimeter with ‘Bron, Kyrie, Dion, and SuperDova will pressure the ball. Love, Andy, TT, and the geriatric crew will lay in the weeds for blocks charges. A couple more defensive playmakers are definitely called for, though. E’Twaun Moore was rumored yesterday. He’s had a solid uptick in his three years as an NBA player, posts a dRAPM of .25, and shot .354 from three last year. Personally, I’d rather have Wayne Ellington, if he’s released by Sacramento, as rumored. Ellington has career shooting splits of .418/.386/.855, and we all remember his turn with the Herculoids, but Moore is probably a better defender.
Everyone knows the Cavs need another big, especially one who can protect the rim. And the pickings here are slim. If you’re going to take a flyer on someone, why not take a flyer on six year Air Force vet, Bernard James, who was a Maverick for the last two seasons. James had a very solid summer league, has low miles for his 29 years of age, and still appears to be improving. James looked like a vet in Vegas, averaging 13.5 points, 7.8 rebounds, 1.5 blocks, and 1.8 steals in only 25.5 minutes a night over the course of four games. He also shot .625/.000/.778. The free throw number was a big jump from his career .596. Aside from possibly confusing Austin Carr, there’s no downside to adding an older, high character prospect with some growth potential.
David: Lying in bed this morning I just realized that the Cavs adjustment period to becoming a super team is going to be so much easier than it was with the Heat. It was the perfect realization to start my day.
The Heat had to train Chris Bosh do things he didn’t excel at like shooting the deep ball and moving out of the post. The Cavs need Kevin Love to be in the post, which is going to work amazingly. Love played in the post recently in his career and early on he played there exclusively. There will be plenty of operating space for outside players to use for drives or threes. Kevin may not like it but he’s going to take a lot fewer threes and get elbowed in the back by the David Wests of the league a lot more. The Cavs are going to be like watching the Spurs; only they’ll be using innate basketball ability to move the ball fluidly instead of the laws and regulations of Pop’s offensive system.
Defensively, hopefully the Cavs can get in their zone while playing the zone because they need a way to stop people from even approaching the rim off of pick and rolls and drives. If the team can do that, they’ll be decent defensively as rebounds will be sucked in by the Love Vacuum and Andy’s Afro. There won’t be many second chances for opposing teams, so the Cavs just need to focus on making the first shot of other teams reasonably poor. That should simplify the defense enough to be functional.
People who are claiming that they won’t like the Cavs as much because the Cavs went and got some great players are like people who claim they stopped like a band after they got to be good.
I’m nicknaming then emo-fans.
I’m fine with the trade. There are enough weaknesses in Wiggins’ game that give me pause in declaring him a sure-fire stud. Because of that risk, I’m willing to cash in for a guy who is an actual stud right now. Bennett…I just don’t care. I wasn’t a fan of the pick when it was made (although I’ve relented on bashing Grant for that one..the draft was bad that year). His 1st season did nothing to alleviate my feelings. And then Summer League was just….I mean he was better, but I still saw a guy who, for all of his… Read more »
Totally feel you on Bennett. As much as I enjoyed the adventures of Gum Drop Bear, he just didn’t seem to have any court awareness at all. Hope he develops for Minny, but he seems like less effective than Derrick Williams and we all know how well that worked out in the Twin Cities.
One thing that needs to be done is come up with a reasonable name for this bunch (presuming Love comes aboard.) Please God not the Big 3 again. It’s bad enough they used that in Miami. The King and his Court? The Prodigal Sons? The Del(ly) Vi-Kings?
I understand people’s emotional issues going from the lottery to a super team. I am confident that as the year goes on and people spend time with the team they will get behind it and enjoy the amazing year that is coming. I am so psyched. WE CAN DO THIS!
I like the Big 3.
I don’t get some fans. You root for a team that was really awful for the past 3 years. Then they sign the best player in the NBA for the next 4-5 years, they trade for a top 5-10 NBA player for the next 4-5 years, and lock up the best player on their team for the next 5 years.
It’s been the best offseason in maybe forever and people are on Cavs message boards complaining that now we are going to be too great.
I don’t understand this mentality.
It’s the Internet age. People openly complain about things they can’t control. I hope to God the front office is shielded from ever hearing or reading fan commentary. Meaningful fan approval comes in one form: ticket purchases.
Some interesting stuff coming out about how the trade might get nixed if there’s evidence there’s an agreement in place with love for a contract. It’s basically totally illegal. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.
I’m sure the trade will go through. I have no doubts on this. Love, Irving, and Lebron for 4-5 years. I still can’t believe how aweomse that is.
Very interesting. I said this the minute I read the article, that any Love “agreement” about what he’ll do as a free agent violates CBA. Cavs, Wolves, Love, and Schultz better spend this weekend getting their stories straight and burning any evidence. How ironic that Gilbert who hated the concept of superteams is at center of all this. This will be a veto or nothing. Silver can’t strip Love’s Bird rights.
Every team ever has been built the same way. Every team ever has been built through draft free agency and trades. There are literally no exceptions to this.
Dude its weird because of course that’s how teams are built its a truism. That doesn’t mean I shouldn’t like the Lakers because of how they got Kobe or Gasol. It doesn’t mean I have to like the Heat for building through free agency. I like players that are tough and the Cavs are short on them and the Bulls are full of them. I don’t think Zach Randolph is even in the same stratosphere as Kevin Love but I like him more than Love. Competition trumps winning to me, as a player, fan and coach. If the Cavs swung… Read more »
I think you will enjoy Love more than you think. Rebounding is a tough business. Especially when you don’t have a big vertical and aren’t 7’0. Just ask Dennis Rodman or Barkley about rebounding and toughness. I think Love gets the soft label because he was a little pudgy, complained about being in arguably the worst situation of any star in the NBA, shoots threes, is white, and hash’t been to the playoffs. The games I watched he played a very tough game, a man’s game. He banged with Griffin who had a great game also but it wasn’t James… Read more »
I don’t think Love is soft at all. I mean tough like might punch somebody tough ala Z Bo and Garnet, My favorite players in the game besides Dion Waiters is the KG, Noah, Z Bo David West type grinders or the hard workers like Taj Gibson, Jimmy Butler, Asik or Delly. I have always respected Lebrons game but I have never liked him perse. I didn’t like guys taking pictures with their hands on the sideline, choreographed celebrations or dances. Its my opinion that if you make millions playing a game it should at least be hard fought and… Read more »
Of course you don’t have to like them. But if you are a Cavs fan you have to like them. If you aren’t a Cavs fan, then don’t like them. It’s no big deal to like another team.
If you want to root for bad basketball become a 76ers fan.
I’m sure the trade will go through too. Just media people trying to find something to write about for the next 14 days. Neither team, nor Love, has publicly said that the mentioned agreement is in place – and they won’t, because it’s illegal. But the agreement probably will be in place as a gentlemen’s aggreement – it helps that our GM (sorry – star player) is not bound by such rules.
Bill Simmons on Love:
http://grantland.com/features/kevin-love-lebron-james-trade-minnesota-timberwolves/
Thanks for sharing this Raoul. Looking forward to watching Love and seeing how he fits in with this group. Chemistry is the key. I was a big Philly fan during the Barkley era. He was an irresistable force. Anthony Bennett shares some of Barkley’s physical and skill attributes (which made him the #1 pick) – but Barkley was an ultra-confident, Jordanesque competitor . . . and a runaway freight train. I don’t see Kevin Love similarities other than statistically. Believe it or not, I’m most excited about watching another Philly kid – Dion Waiters – this year. I think he’s… Read more »
I wonder if the Cavs will play good enough defense to make to the finals.
I wonder if we need to play defense to get there. To beat the spurs we will but no one else will be able to score with us. The amount of multi faceted offensive weapons we have dwarfs what the heat had. Irving is a far more versatile player then Wade was. Mostly because he’s a far superior shoot even if he doesn’t draw fouls the way Wade did. Love is a far superior low post player, passer and 3 point shooter than Bosh. Our role players are better especially offensively. Anderson is a far better player than Joel Anthony… Read more »
We will have no problem at all getting to the Finals. I’m not sure if we’ll win, but we have a pretty great chance at it.
Nice comparison, Rodney.
Hope we can sign Marion . . . and find that post (a tough guy). Then we should be set. I don’t know much about Mosgov.
I am an anti front runner by nature so this is hard to take. We are the Heat now, how can the team I love be the team I hate. I hated when the Wolves helped the Heat secure Mike Miller via sign and trade after they already were a superteam and how Boston helped them get rid of Joel Anthony last year. I know your thinking “Who has ever cared about any Joel Anthony related move”, I am that guy. The Cavs are hoopsrumored to have offered a first round pick to the Nuggets for Timofey Mosgov. That would… Read more »
I like Mosgov and it makes sense for them to dump him. Don’t you think this is a far different assembly then the heat’s. This is closer to the assembly of the Celtics recent big 3. Wade and and Lebron were rivals. The heat colluded and had assurances for years. They circumvented salary cap rules. We are paying 3 players Maximium salaries. We just gave Minnesota one of the best if not the best package for a departing borderline superstar ever. This is closer to the 06 heat’s acquisition of Shaq then the 2010’s acquisition of Lebron and Bosh. Minnesota… Read more »
I wonder if Memphis would trade Kosta Kofas here. Are either of them good rim protectors?
This is a dumb take. You build a team through the draft, free agency, and trades. The Cavs did exactly what every other team in the history of the NBA has done to build a winner.
Every team builds the same ways. There are only three ways to get better, it’s not like there’s a lot of options.
I don’t like superteams and never was a fan of our Olympic teams that’s not dumb its just I like over achieving, continuity, passion and development over wins. I may be the only person but I have missed maybe 4 Cavs games in the last three years and I would look as forward to seeing Wiggins, Bennett this year as Lebron, Irving and Love.
That makes no sense at all. These are professional teams. The whole goal is to win. Maybe you should watch D-league teams where the goal is development, not winning.
There are 3 ways to make your team better. Drafting, trading, and free agency. The cavs used all three like EVERY SINGLE OTHER TEAM THAT HAS WON A TITLE OVER THE LAST 50 years.
Anatomy of a Cols post:
1. Insult previous poster.
2. Mention the four ways teams are built (or is it 3? I wish somebody would remind me.)
3. More poop-mouth insults.
4. Suggest that the previous poster watch some type of minor-league sport.
5. Repeat 50 hundred million times.
Oh silly Cols. Your Three Ways of Making a Team Better may all be equal in Robo-Basketball where the sole goal is to win; doesn’t mean us irrational, passionate human fans cannot have a preference over how they like to see their team built.
was it just pure coincidence that all this info came out the day before the big LeBron homecoming—timing is everything–agree with most of you bloggers—love stating he is here for 5 yrs is huge and yes we are all guilty of ” overvaluing our possessions ( wiggins / Bennett ) also need to remember IT WAS ONLY SUMMER LEAGUE –will those same athletic plays / stats still be there during the season—-if Bennett has a lousy summer league we probably can’t make a trade with the timberwolves
Windhorst mentioned in his podcast with Bill Simmons that the Heat gave up the picks to the Cavs in haste because Lebron wanted all the contracts signed so they could have there party on time. He suggested the Heat would have given up less for James and company if they didn’t have to rush. Its towards the end of the podcast. I makes it even funnier that the Love news dropped before Lebron’s Arkon shindig.
I was reading a realgm article that I thought made an interesting point about the trade’s timing and the fact that waiting until midseason carried significant risk for the cavs: http://basketball.realgm.com/article/234562/Grading-The-Deal-Cavaliers-Trade-For-Kevin-Love “Cleveland did not have the cap space to sign Love outright next summer and waiting carried more downside risk than some in the media have argued. Wiggins’ value has more shakiness than room to grow in the short term and another disappointing stretch from Bennett could have been disastrous for his standing in the league.” I have focused strongly on Wiggins’ upside, but this is a valid point. Wiggins… Read more »
What I never understood is why Kevin Love is the only possible trade target the Cavs have had both now and next summer.
Because top 10 players aren’t available that often.
There are other trades that I would rather have done. If we could have got Horford and Korver I would swap Love for them but the fact is they aren’t available.
I prefer Korver and Horford to the Love deal also.
Great article from Simmons out there on the value of Kevin Love. It bodes well for the Cavs, if you want to believe it.
I think I attended Florida State for Bernard’s season there. Interesting mention, Nate.
Bernard is very strong and a good defender (from what I recall), but I don’t remember him ever being much of a shot blocker. A big body, yes. But I’m not sure he’s worth a flyer if we’re looking for a true rim protector. He’ll definitely come in and bang down low, though.
Ben,
that is:
heilige scheiße!
That is the only thing I remember from German class in the early 60’s.
Blame me for that one. I’m sure Ben knows the correct term. I had to edit what he originally wrote to comply with blog rules.
I apologize for my exuberance, Nate!
Upon further reflection, I think it is:
Heilige Scheiße!!
Back in the day, some WW2 movies would have the German’s calling each other “scheißeKopf!”, which the subtitles would give as “dumb head!”.
I was looking pack at some pre-draft posts to see how people felt about Wiggins BEFORE he became a Cav. Overall people liked him, but there was also some sufficient worry about his limitations (and not just from KJ!). Once we drafted him, however, the commentariat (me included) started rationalizing his weaknesses by focusing on his strengths. He was a Cav afterall. The most striking result of my research – in CTBs mock draft, 4 people voted for Wiggins, one for Embiid, one for Exum. Nate was the guy who voted for Exum! I am not trying to pick on… Read more »
Honestly, that was just more for interesting content (the Exum thing), and the fact that I’d been reading a ton of Exum stuff. It’s boring if everyone picks the same guy, and I tend to play devil’s advocate a lot (in case you didn’t notice). I never would have actually drafted Exum over Wiggins. OK, maybe that afternoon I would have, but every other day, no.
So you do draw straws.
Nah. I just have a bit of Loki in me.
You know what Hot Sauce….that’s a great question. If we had made the trade before the draft- particularly right after Embiid got hurt- I think people would have been doing cartwheels across the blogoshpere. It was only after Wiggins spin/jam in the summer league that the fervor really started to heat up.
Bennett, this year’s #1 pick, and the Heat’s pick next year for Kevin Love. Who wouldn’t have liked that?
Well, sure, that spin/jam was a perception changer. Also, the thought of having a front man on D so LeBron would be better rested on O.
My theory was that by playing tuff the Cavs would wind up with Wiggins and Love. Maybe that could have happened, maybe not. Or, probably not. There is every reason to think Griffin & company carefully analyzed every possibility and took the best bet. So far DG appears to be doing everything smart, and is lucky to boot. Mark me down as “on board”.
I think the worry was that if the Cavs didn’t give up Wiggins, the Bulls were going to get Love, in which case they probably would have been (if D-Rose really IS back like everyone says he is) favorites in the East if not the League. So think of it as Wiggins to get Love, and to not have Love on the Bulls.
I think Bennett’s improved summer league play adds to the entire thing as well.
If Bennett had played like he did last season during summer league, this trade would really look like Wiggins + salary filler (Bennett) + future first (who cares). But Bennett showed that he could be the guy the Cavs thought he could be when they drafted him. Now, two #1 overall picks with high ceilings for Love hurts a little more.
It’s still the smart play, though!
I looked at the summer league stats to see how AW and AB did. I, for one, was focused mostly on the highlight dunks and athleticism, but their overall stats are actually pretty mediocre.
Interestingly, AW shot .405 from field and .154 from three (yikes). He only avearged 3.5 rebs and .3 As in 30 mpg.
AB was at .426 from field and .250 from three. 7.8 rebs and .8 A’s in 30 mpg.
his rapid 3 ball shot after Delly rebounded his long range 2 miss in the LVSL while the Cavs are trying to run clock reminded me that he may have the skills to be a starter or role player on any team in the league I’m not sure he totally understands the game.
It’s all about Love’s commitment. If Love is really a Cav until 2020 then you make this move and live with the consequences. If he’s not, then you’ve mortgaged your future for a one year rental. That’s really all the hand-wringing is about with respect to Love. Everything else is insignificant next to the reality that he won’t be under contract long term when we trade for him.
But the worrying about him in my opinion is really an irrational fear. I don’t want to speculate on the unlikely events that could lead to him leaving because I don’t want to jinx us but we really have everything on our side (except for sunny California weather). He is a professional. He wants to win and we give him a great chance at that. Plus we can offer him a great deal more money than anyone else can. And I think the money issue is important for more reasons than just having a lot of money. He can say… Read more »
I’ve been in California all week and haven’t seen the sun once.
Tom, you’re in the Bay Area aren’t you?
We should meet up for drinks. I live in SF.
Hot Sauce… I still would rather have Wiggins, Bennett and Thad Young vs. Kevin Love. We could have put together scraps and minimums to send Philly if all it took was picks to get Young. They only got seconders for Turner and Hawes and I think they should take no less than a first rounder for Thad Young. Love is a done deal but I will never understand why it was Love or Bust. This is who is available next summer at the 5. Unrestricted Centers available next summer; Omer Asik, Tyson Chandler, Deandre Jordan, Marc Gasol. Guys with Player… Read more »
We wouldn’t have been able to afford Gasol or Hibbert and the rest those guys are good not great. Love is great
We have Haywood’s 10.5 million dollar unguaranteed contract next summer which can be traded for a guy making up to 15 million and can be used in a sign and trade.
We still do. Which means we can still get one one of those guys. Usually in sign and trades the team trading them isn’t going to sign them either way so they are glad to get an asset back. We could still get a sign and trade for some of those guys. No way we land Marc Gasol or Hibbert but Brook Lopez is possible. Is he any good as a rim protector?
It was Love or bust because it was preordained. It was a condition of Lebron coming here. It’s not a coincidence that Wiggins and Bennett weren’t mentioned in Lebron’s “coming home” letter; it was already happening at that point. Look at it this way: if someone would have told you this in June: “the Cavs have to give up Wiggins and Bennett to get Lebron to come back….oh, and we get Kevin Love as part of the deal too”, who on earth would be against that. The full trade, in reality, is this: Wiggins & Bennett for Lebron & KLove.… Read more »
Cavs are the best team in the East right now by quite a large margin too. They are probably close to being the best in the NBA. I think there’s a better than 60% chance they win the title this year. Certainly they will make the Finals.
Agree with Cols714
I agree that the Cavs are the favorites in the East, but I think you are under estimating the Bulls. They play incredible defense, and now they are adding their MVP (in top form by the way) back into that mix.
Its an incredible time to be a Cavs fan. Go Cavs!
I think you are way overrating the Bulls. They don’t have anyone as good as Kevin Love. Rose may or may not be as good as Irving.
They will win lots of regular season games, but the Cavs will destroy them in the playoffs.
Bulls won 48 games last year and added Pau, Mirotic (best player in Europe), McDermott, oh and former MVP, Derrick Rose. They only lost Boozer. That looks like at least a 60 win team to me.
Nate – They also lost Deng. And we’ve heard about Derric Rose before…but until he actually plays some NBA games…I’m not holding out hope. Adding Pau isn’t that great…he’s basically replacing Boozer as a guy who can’t play defense and his best days are behind him. Adding Mirotic isn’t all that great. He is very overrated. McBuckets brings some offense to their bench…but not by a lot. He’ll hit that rookie wall.