Links to the Present: Not A Leader Edition
2014-08-19
Kyrie Irving had a candid chat with RealGM. He admitted that he has not been a leader for this Cavs team. This isn’t a surprise for Cavs fans who have witnessed Irving pout, freeze out Dion Waiters, and mentally check out. LeBron James and fellow veterans, Mike Miller and Shawn Marion, will fix Irving’s leadership issues this season, and having Irving already cognizant of them will make the process that much easier. Here’s what Irving told RealGM:
“Everybody asks me if this is my year to be a leader … I haven’t been so far though, not at all. I’ve just been a kid trying to figure it out. There’s no perfect way to be a leader, and coming in as a 19-year-old kid and having everything bearing on your shoulders, there are a lot of ups and downs. Now it’s about being the best every single day and not being afraid.
“I’m more than excited with our new veterans. I’m really excited just from the standpoint of how the locker room is going to go and how to really be a professional. I’m not saying that the veterans that we had weren’t professionals themselves, but we didn’t have enough. Given the right and wrong things to do in the league, I’ve had to learn on my own and that’s what some of us been doing.
“Now, we have guys who’ve been in the league for years, guys who’ve won championships and have had to give a piece of their game for the greater good of the team. It’s something I admire and something I’m going to learn from.”
While some fans have faulted Kyrie for how he hasn’t shown the ability to lead, I find it hard to fault him. He’s 22. He should just be graduating college now. His previous years in the league he should have been in college. I graduated two year ago, so I still remember being a student. I was going out nearly every night struggling to keep up with my assignments. I couldn’t have led anybody in anything. How can anybody have expected Irving to listen to criticism from hundreds of different angles, simply accept blame at press conferences, and then go onto the court to lead a sub par team to victory these past three years?
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Kelly Dwyer of Ball Don’t Lie has a message for people talking about the Cavs signing too many forwards after the acquisition of Shawn Marion. There simply aren’t any available centers. Marion was the best player available for the Cavs.
Tyson Chandler isn’t available until next summer. Roy Hibbert can’t be had in return for Dion Waiters. Joakim Noah isn’t going anywhere. And capable defensive-minded reserve centers just don’t walk the earth anymore. Those guys are called “starting centers.”
In lieu of those candidates, you sign a slim but strong hybrid forward on his last legs to the minimum salary,
and keep your eye on an ever-churning trade and free agent market. Shawn Marion isn’t the answer in Cleveland, but he sure as hell doesn’t hurt the Cavaliers’ championship chances.
The numbers also back up how helpful Marion is. The wins he helps the Cavs get are costing the team very little money. Cory Hughey at GotBuckets.com explains.
Buoyed by the luxury of getting vets to sign for the minimum, APM and RAPM data at gotbuckets.com confirm that Marion should be a strong value to the Cavaliers on his salary of $1.4 million. SWAg considers that Marion was responsible for 8.5 wins over the past two seasons, while SWAgR says he added over 2 wins last season to the Mavericks. Even with an almost assured minutes drop-off, at $1.4 million, the Matrix provides a nice value acquisition for the Cavs of at least $1 million per win, and also another veteran presence on what was formerly one of the League’s youngest teams.
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If the Cavs really want a rim protector, they should trade for Larry Sanders who held a 99 defensive rating to go with nearly 3 blocks per game in the season before he discovered pot and made some poor decisions.
The Cavs gain two wins from this trade, and the Bucks get rid of the biggest deterrent to Jabari Parker’s development. This trade also eliminates the need to figure out how much Tristan Thompson is worth.
I don’t like that trade for a few reasons. 1) Sanders is a knucklehead and potential locker room cancer, no repeats of Andrew Bynum please. 2) He’s over paid and costs too much. 3) Heywoods unique contract is an asset that wont have full value until next season, they aren’t going to waste it by trading him away this season, and 4) No way Cavs are trading Tristan Thompson – Rich Paul / LeBron connection and I don’t think Cavs are ready to give up on him. The whole point to trading for Heywood in the first place was to… Read more »
As good as Defensive Rating is for team stats, it’s utterly meaningless for individual players. Try looking up how it’s calculated. Larry Sanders is indeed a great defender by meaningful advanced stats and metrics so use those.
Agreed. We’re going to make David cut off a finger at the knuckle, Yakuza style.
NO to any trades. At least not until the trade deadline. Lets figure out what we got. May be TT can get better. You know with James as the main star instead of KI. Hopefully he can become the next AV. We have a bunch of combo pf/center kinds coming loose next year – some of them can even play defense. I count Kevin Garnett (FA), Al Jefferson (PO), Tyson Chandler (FA), Timofey Mozgov (TO), Greg Monroe (guessing FA), Hibbert (PO), DeAndre Jordan (FA), Mark Gosol (FA), Omer Asik (FA), Kendrick Perkins (FA). I am sure there are a bunch… Read more »
TT will be coming off the bench. He won’t be asked to play up on starters that can dip into a bag of tricks to score around him. He’ll be playing flawed guys like himself. The hustle scoring and rebounding will be there. Maybe he has worked on defensive skills similar to how he raised his FT shooting the last 2 years. (BTW FT shooting is something Dion needs to do if he’s going to be effective. It’s one of the worst for guards playing real minutes.) TT’s an expiring $5M with a QO for 2015-2016 if I am not… Read more »
talk to portland for a. r lopez or b. m leonard.
Marion will be making like a third of what Earl Clark did last year. Sure he’s old and his defensive ability is probably a little overrated at this point, but he’s making peanuts.
Id love for that Larry Sanders trade, I just don’t think Thompson has that much value.
Thompson is not great, but he is pretty good, a lot better than some people starting in the league. What is with the insane TT hate out there? You guys should look into professional help.
He was pretty much the 28th best starting power forward in the NBA last year…I mean, maybe the Lakers or the Celtics had worse, but that’s not good company. Look at that list and tell me differently. http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/scoring-per-game/position/power-forwards He’s was a train wreck defensively: terrible around the basket, terrible at closeouts (one of the worst players at guarding jump shooters in the league last year), doesn’t get steals, and doesn’t get blocks. He was a bad scorer, a bad defender, and a bad passer. He’s good at four things things: rebounding, running the floor, drawing fouls, and not getting hurt.… Read more »
I think this an extreme opinion. I don’t have time to say a lot, but the link below shows DefReb% for forwards who played more than 25 mpg. TT was 12th in league. And the list includes some players that are more Centers like Howard, Duncan, Gasol. Note KLove is #1
http://stats.nba.com/leaguePlayerGeneral.html?MeasureType=Advanced&PerMode=Totals&sortField=DREB_PCT&sortOrder=DES&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&pageNo=1&rowsPerPage=25&filters=MIN*GE*25&PlayerPosition=F
I never denied he was a good rebounder. It’s his best attribute. But can you look at the list of starting power forwards in the NBA and tell me that there aren’t 27 better?
Yes. It’s silly to say that 27 people on your best are clearly BETTER than TT. I see 12-13 names that are clearly better. And then a bunch of guys like TT that are good at one thing and flawed in a variety of other ways. And, to be clear, the 12-13 that are better are elite players. PF is the the deepest position in the league, so being a top 15 PF is a really really hard thing to do. Also, the key question moving forward is whether TT’s strengths fit this new team. So far in his career… Read more »
‘KLove is #1″.
This is the key point. As good as TT is at his best skill…the Cavs now have someone even better at that skill. Who is also, by the way, also an elite scorer, an elite passer, and taller.
I like TT as well….but he is just not as valuable to a Cavs roster that has KLove on it. It’s a cruel business, but that’s the reality.
And this link show he is 6th if OffReb% amongst the same sample. TT needs to work on his game, but he is a very good rebounder who will be able to focus more on his strengths in a new, more narrow role. I don’t think he is elite in anyway, but he has some real skills.
http://stats.nba.com/leaguePlayerGeneral.html?MeasureType=Advanced&PerMode=Totals&sortField=OREB_PCT&sortOrder=DES&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&pageNo=1&rowsPerPage=25&filters=MIN*GE*25&PlayerPosition=F
Another view on Cav’s centers:
http://kingjamesgospel.com/2014/08/19/cleveland-cavaliers-standing-pat-center/
This was a good read.
That is a good read, especially as it pertains to Thompson. I think, as fans, we expected Thompson to deliver more than he has. We wanted and needed a cornerstone talent. Thus, our disappointment. Too many holes in his game. I’m interested to see what he does in a bench + spot starter role surrounding by better talent.
Thompson is going to prove much more valuable this upcoming year (for us) than he has been. People should realize that since his rookie season, Thompson has been expected to live up to the #4 overall pick billing. He’s basically been considered the third best player on this team (Irving, Waiters), and a “building block.” But now with the major influx of talent, he’ll be a role player. As a role player, I think the guy is going to absolutely thrive. He won’t be asked to be good at everything. He’ll be able to focus on his strengths. That is… Read more »
I agree with you Gordon- I also think TT will thrive on this team, for all the reasons you noted. But we still need a rim protecting big. As good as TT will be, he can’t cover that need. We’ll do just fine in the regular season, but late in the playoffs, who is going to keep Rose/Westbrook/Parker out of the lane? Nobody. So the team will have to crowd the lane more, at the expense of giving up more threes. We’ve seen how that story ends. To win a championship, that role needs to be filled by someone not… Read more »
nate you do bring up some good pts to consider with sanders —has the talent but could be a disruptive personality ( we all know about personalities from last years club ) forgot about Udoh —that mght be a better option to pursue—-still Sanders talent is inticing to take a chance
Marion was a great signing, I don’t know why anyone would say otherwise. The Cavs are set, it will be great if they can sign Allen and then some big man to play 10 minutes a game or so.
Cols its not about not being good enough. We should absolutely in 62 games and win the finals. Its about securing our weaknesses. Even the 95 bulls lost 12 regular season games. Our glaring weakness is if we run up against a 7 footer that can score. Andy can hold his own against most contenders bigs (Thank You Darl Morey) but if he gets hurt or in foul trouble Noah, Pau, and Gibson would be really tough for Love and TT. Heywood might be useful he might not play a game. Do you really want Kirk playing 15 minutes a… Read more »
I actually will be taking issue with Cory a little bit on Marion, as he totaled a very measly number of wins given his 2600+ minutes last year. Hopefully i’ll have that tomorrow. As for the assertion that “There Simply Aren’t any Available Centers” it is hogwash. There are rim protecting big men out there who can play center, the Cavs simply haven’t entertained the idea of signing one yet. Which is fine. After the Love trade goes down, there will probably be a push to add someone. Ekpeh Udoh is out there, Josh Harrelson is out there, Okafor, Steimsma,… Read more »
As a minimum contract you think we can do better than Marion? I haven’t checked out Josh Harrelson yet, but as far as those other guys go no way I want them as my rim protector. Center by committee type thing would be passable with those guys. Udoh might be an okay option but he’s injury prone. Although he blocks a decent amount of shots in minimal minutes. O’neal is a non factor and wants to stay with Goldenstate http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2014/08/watch-jermaine-oneal.html. The Thompson thing scares me. If he doesn’t improve dramatically, I hope we can get him cheaper than we have… Read more »
I don’t mind Marion, I just don’t think he should play much. And he’s not a center. He can’t guard centers, so I’m not quite sure what anyone’s arguing here when they talk about Marion and centers. As for O’Neal, he’s not a non-factor, he had a pretty nice season last year: 15 PER 7.9 points, 5.5 boards, .9 blocks in 20 minutes a night with a dRAPM of 1.1 . He may want to sign Golden State, but he’s at least worth a phone call with those numbers. The Cavs need some size at the 5. There’s no getting… Read more »
Would it be possible for someone to remove the blogplay.com script from the site. That service seems to be defunct now, and the comments refuse to load until the request times out, which takes a minute or two. Here is the offending script code that should be removed. var t = document.title; var u = document.URL; var scriptUrlAux = ‘http://blogplay.com/servers/sociable_web.php’; var scriptUrl = scriptUrlAux + ‘?jq=1&id=2429&u=’ + u + ‘&t=’ + t; var sociableSrc=String.fromCharCode(60) + ‘scr’ +’ipt type=”text/javascript” language=”javascript” src=”‘ + scriptUrl + ‘”‘ + String.fromCharCode(62,60) + ‘/scr’ + ‘ipt>’; document.write(sociableSrc); Also that trade would be good if we get… Read more »
I second this request. Good job Jim
Jim James
Love your work with MMJ!!!
Nope. For the zillionth time. The Cavs do not have a major need at center. They currently have Love, Thompson, Andy and Haywood for the PF/C position. That’s enough.
They do have a need for a 5-10 minute guy due to the unreliableness of Haywood and Andy V. That’s it though. They are good enough as is.
I’m not concerned if we don’t get one – I’m just in favour of any trade that gets rid of Thompson for an alternative big. Overpaying for him in a year is pointless as we have 4/5 players who can play his position and there’s always a replacement level PF available.
Cols opposing this trade would be as absurd as opposing the Love trade, unless your saying it because it would put us into the luxary tax. I dont think it will happen because TT stinks except for the fact that he rebounds and plays every game.
Brendan Haywood is merely a contract/trade chip and won’t be a productive player… He last played two seasons ago and shot less than 50% from the field and the free throw line…
Yep like that trade. I’m all for swapping Tristan for a rim protecting big – but if it doesn’t happen then we’ll roll with it and see what happens. There are many ways to defend. Love everything that Kyrie and Dion are saying this year. I don’t think Kyrie is a selfish player – I think he was a player who too often (particularly in a close game in the 4th quarter) felt he needed to do everything and set an example of how to win. It’s ridiculous to expect a 19/20 year old to lead a team. Also there’s… Read more »
I like the trade idea —does LeBron’s / t.t.’s agent go for it/ work with us to make it happen ?