The Point Four-ward: Wait(ers) No More
2015-01-07Four points I’m thinking about the NBA and the Cleveland Cavaliers…
1.) Speaking purely from that place where we sports fans can still grow attached to players in purely sentimental ways, I will miss Dion Waiters very much. He was the first professional athlete I ever interviewed face-to-face and I’ll always be a sucker for his unique personality which always seemed to be running on those parallel tracks of inflated self-regard and never feeling properly regarded.
I was firmly in the camp that thought Waiters could experience a real break-through in his this season, his third. But I was also one of the people (along, apparently, with the crossed fingers of everyone else on the Cavs) who thought Waiters would be able to adapt to playing with LeBron James, becoming more of a catch-and-shoot player who could focus on being a stout defender with the starters and sate his appetite for dribble-driving against second units. That, it turned out, wasn’t Waiters game.
So, I thought he could be an offensive spark plug off the bench… and sometimes he was. But if his long-two jumper wasn’t falling, the positives that the team got from Waiters dropped off a cliff. I’d defended Waiters for his whole Cavs career, but even I found myself saying to a friend over the weekend, “This might just not be working [with Waiters].”
Then there’s this:
Cavs coach Blatt told Waiters he needed spot-up shooter. Waiters resisted. Believes he’s better than Kyrie, thought Kyrie “favored” by Cavs.
— Sam Amico (@SamAmicoFSO) January 6, 2015
No one is saying that Waiters is a bad guy. No one is saying he is incapable of bringing anything good to an NBA team. But, clearly, he was not at a place where he was ready to try to change his game to fit into the other pieces the team had already made a much more firm commitment to. So, GM David Griffin pulled off the trade that will see the J.R. Smith Cavaliers era begin as soon as tonight against the Rockets.
While I like Iman Shumpert more than Smith, his inclusion in the deal could solve what I always argued was the problem with flipping Waiters for a defensive big man, as many wanted. The Cavs now get their perimeter defender and keep their bench scorer.
Half of my mouth is salivating to see how this all plays out. The other is dry as a bone.
2.) What little front line depth the Cavs had before this trade is now officially gone. Sending Alex Kirk and Lou Amundson to the Knicks — New York is expected to waive both players — means that Brendan Haywood is the team’s de facto third (and only other) big man after starters Tristan Thompson and Kevin Love. In the immediate future (i.e. while the team’s injury list still flutters long behind the team like Superman’s cape), this means David Blatt may run Love a little at center and get Shawn Marion some minutes at power forward in order to spell Thompson who, having averaged over 39 minutes a game over the team’s last seven, is already getting worked about as hard as he can.
Given that, you’d expect the team to have some more moves on deck. They could choose to pursue a further New York state of mind by pursuing recently waived Knicks center Samuel Dalembert. The 6-11 center could saw the floor for 17 minutes a game for the Knicks and was having his worst statistical season in years. But, he was still averaging nearly 3 blocks per 36 minutes and fits two current Cavalier rationalizations to a tee: “But the Knicks were a mess…” and “He’s better than anyone else currently warming the end of the bench.”
Monday was also the first day that NBA teams could sign players to 10-day contracts. I’d love to see the team use its current state of flux to try out a couple of D-Leaguers and see if they can find some length and athleticism on the cheap. One player to keep an eye on is 6-9 Khem Birch. Currently playing for the Sioux Falls Skyforce, Birch is averaging 15.2 points, 10.7 rebounds and 2.4 blocks a game. He would also immediately fill the Cavs’ Canadian-big-man-from-UNLV position that has been vacant since they traded away Anthony Bennett.
3.) The big score for the Cavs in this trade (besides the five or six games Smith will just go nuts scoring the ball… hopefully) was getting Oklahoma City’s protected first round pick. The pick is protected 1-18 this year, 1-15 in 2016 and 2017 and, after that, becomes two second round picks. This year could actually be where that pick has the most value, as injuries to Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook have depressed the Thunder’s record a bit.
If Cavs GM David Griffin is able to flip this (or Memphis’ future pick that the Cavs own) for a big man of any impact, he’d have effectively traded Waiters, for three players all of whom fit the team’s biggest needs. That’s not a bad haul for an uneven (if beloved by some) former number four overall pick.
4.) So, where does this leave David Blatt’s much-maligned rotation? Once Shumpert recovers from his shoulder injury (and reports are that he should be ready soon), the Cavs’ immediate starting rotation would seem to include the fourth year guard from Georgia Tech, his 2011 draft classmates Kyrie Irving and Tristan Thompson, as well as James and Love. Smith will be the first guard off the bench and will see run with a second unit of Matthew Dellavedova, Shawn Marion, some combination of Mike Miller and Joe Harris, and Cavs-big-to-be-named-later.
If Blatt has had trouble finding consistent minutes for and production from Miller before this trade, though, it only gets tougher on the Cavs’ newly crowded perimeter.
Johnny Lately there is no peckovic factor in Love’s former team and performance… it is Ricky Rubio factor… all people around him get 25% better stats…we know it for years and some player’s contracts too in Spain and in the Nba! thanks Bob for putting words about the feelings for Waiters Mozgov is a great signing and Blatt knows him well As always i insist in a center for the future WALTER TAVARES playing in Gran Canaria in spanish league… Atlanta has him now but it is still a project and not too expensive to get… 7 foot 2 and… Read more »
You know. Love has played next to a really big guy for the past several years, he’s looked winded more often this year, and I think it may be that he has been being asked to take more of the boxing out/post defense against bigger guys. Mozgov will be a huge help for both him and TT against the bigger centers, the amount of energy they have to expend guarding those guys compared with what he will have to, it’s just not even a comparison. TT has still looked springy, but Love has looked more ground bound than usual, and… Read more »
Absolutely, the Peckovic (sp.) factor, one reason Love could be such a scoring beast in Minnesota.
i agree that griffin has done a good job overall and feel much better about our chances to turn the season around now than i did a week ago. at the same time, doesn’t this feel a little like the danny ferry era all over again? — LBJ in “win now” mode causes franchise to mortgage entire future for questionable in-season upgrades with real long-term risk and little regard to “fit” or chemistry? by my count, the return of LBJ has now cost us: wiggins (age 19) zeller (age 24) bennett (age 21) dion (age 23) 2 first-round picks ALL… Read more »
You’re writing that in a bit of a biased manner. The ghost of Kevin Love? Oh, so a top 10, and arguably top 5 player in the NBA over the past few seasons, who is 26, is suddenly a ghost of his former self? I’d rather take into account a bunch of new pieces, a new coach, and everyone trying to find their place. Let’s not overreact there. Also, at this point, LeBron has made it clear he’s here to win a ring. I know we’re all Cleveland fans and we’re used to being spurned, but there’s no way LeBron… Read more »
Yep. Plus those other players aren’t very good.
Zeller – rotation bench 10-20 minute guy
Wiggins – sucks right now but could be good in a few years
Dion – sucks but might be good someday
Bennett – out of the league in a couple of years
Wiggins is WC rookie of the month. Jack and Karasov are so-so for the Nets, but they would have started for the Cavs Monday night if they were still here, and the Cavs would have won.
We’d have quite a few less wins if we had Wiggins instead of Love and Jack, Karasaev and Zeller instead of LeBron.
Like 15 less wins.
I think Raoul was kidding. I hope Raoul was kidding.
Zeller actually is playing like a beast on defense now. And he’d be getting a lot more than 10-20 minutes on this cavs team.
Yeah, because we wouldn’t have LeBron.
Our starting lineup the next 4 years is still young though.
1. Lebron is the oldest at 29
2. Kyrie 22
3. Love 25
4. Thompson 22 or 23
5. Shumpert 24
We have not mortgaged the future at all. We are young at all positions. Bench guys will come and go.
Agree, Cols. We have no bad contracts on this team. Bench/role players are all signed to solid contracts. Varejao might become a “bad” contract if he can’t come back from his injury, but I’m not too worried about that.
Lebron is 30 now. Born in 1984.
Love, KI, and Lebron need to get used to each other but they are still producing an elite offense. Love will stay. The other guys were signed to short, throwaway contracts. Smith and Shump are question marks but COULD do some good for the team. If not, they are disposable. The only guys I am sad about in that lot you list are Wiggins and Zeller (way less than Wiggins and now not very much with Mozgov). But that’s the cost of competing.
i totally hear you guys — and am glad to have my (intentionally provocative) post challenged with the upsides. i think i was just excited about the idea of LBJ playing elder statesman to a bunch of developing young talents who could play together for many years… but obviously that’s a romantic notion for an NBA of yore… unless you live in San Antonio. and, looking at the protections on the first-round picks, i’m less upset about giving them away. OK, fine. I’ll smile. Now, if they’ll only start running the offense that Blatt wants them to (I’m looking at… Read more »
Sigh. Once again there are only 3 ways to improve your team and the Cavs have used all three of them
1. Draft
2. Trades
3. Free agency
One is not better than the other. What Griffin has done is assemble a young team with a high upside and veteran bench guys. It’s brilliant and great. It’s certainly much better than watching Wiggins, Bennet, struggle through another 30 win season.
This team is young, they are good and they will be around a while.
You raise a deep and important question worldbfree. I struggle with it a bit too. But one differences is that we were WAY too young to begin with. So we definitely needed to move some of our young guys. Whether we moved too many of them is a good question. What makes me feel somewhat better (and as others have noted) is that Shump and Love are young. And the 2 first round picks are protected in a way that they were not going to be imapct young guys any time soon. So really we gave away 4 developing young… Read more »
And Grant hits another homerun.
Define “homerun,” please.
Getting players who will contribute and giving up nothing of consequence.
the okc 1st I can live with—the Memphis 1st all will depend on if gasol stays or not ( if he stays —the 1st pick will be a 30th or lower —if he leaves we might have given up a high pick –but at least the cavs are addressing their needs in an aggressive fashion
Gasol will stay on a contender. I don’t think that pick will amount to much.
I knew it would take 2 firsts.
2 probabilistic firsts. One of which we kind of stole from OKC. It’s steep, but I can talk myself into it.
Waiters + Memphis 1st
for
Mozgov, Shump, JR
“The Memphis pick is protected 1-5 and 15-30 in 2015 and 2016, 1-5 in 2017 and 2018 and unprotected in 2019. The Oklahoma City pick is only protected 1-18 in 2015 and 1-15 in 2016 and 2017. If the pick has not been conveyed by 2017, Denver will receive Oklahoma City’s second-round picks in 2018 and 2019.” It seems like the Memphis pick will come to fruition most likely in 2017, where it’s only top 5 protected. That might be a tough pill to swallow, but at that time, we might have won a ring or two and nobody should… Read more »
Looks like it’s actually (according to Lloyd)
Waiters + Memphis 1st
for
Mozgov,Shump,JR, & Denver 2nd
Depending on protections on the 2nd, it basically could equate to moving down about 10 spots (figure MEM, if they keep Gasol, and I’ll admit they gave up some upside if he goes, will be around 24-28, DEN 2nd rounder will probably be in the 34-38 range as long as they got it for 2015/2016), so yeah, not bad there….
I need a little help here. What is it about Mozgov we love?
He is 9 feet tall and Russian.
7’1 center averaging 1.2 bpg in 25 mpg.
Not sure anyone will ever consider the guy a great shot blocker, but at 7’1, he’ll be able to bring some toughness down low (I hope).
As I noted above, Mozgov has played for Blatt before. Hopefully that’s a good sign?
MOZGOV!!!! Waiters for Smith, Mozgov, Shump is very nice.
Yep. This is good. Griffin is so much better at this stuff than Grant.
Yep. Miami won with an elite defense and LeBron+Wade+Bosh.
This team knows that it can score all it wants, but it needs to play defense. Offensively, with LeBron, Kyrie, and Kevin, we don’t need to be as good as Miami was on defense. But we need to be GOOD on defense.
Both of these trades will help us get there.
@ESPNSteinLine: ESPN sources say Cavs are prepared to surrender at least one first-round pick and additional trade assets to Denver for Mozgov
@ESPNSteinLine: Deal sending Timofey Mozgov from Denver to Cleveland, I’m told, is on course to be completed as soon as today
@ESPNSteinLine: Update to Cavs story w/ @WindhorstESPN: Cavs will send TWO future firsts to Denver for Mozgov
@ESPNSteinLine: ESPN sources say tell @WindhorstESPN and I that Cavs are in advanced discussions to acquire Timofey Mozgov from Denver
I keep being surprised at how much more credit jr smith gets than Dion – people keep pointing out JR as the best case scenario for what waiters will become?
16 points, 3 boards, 3 assists, on 51% TS
OR
18 points, 5 boards, 3 assists, on 52% TS
That’s Dion’s age 21 season vs Smith’s 6th MOY in his 9th season
The best point i saw was that this trade brings what the starters need (Shump) and doesn’t lose bench scoring. cant argue with that. but projecting the cavs starting lineups 1 or 2 years out is looking scary…
Very good points here. Agree.
Starting lineup 2 years out? Easy
Kyrie, Love, LeBron, Shumpert, Thompson.
but if shump plays well and TT keeps this up doesnt this starting 5 get REALLY expensive?
Who cares? Certainly not Gilbert. So why should we?
Sounds like Shump is out for at least two more weeks according to J. Lloyd. Smith should be set to play tonight after Dion gets his physical in OKC this afternoon.
Next two weeks will be rough. Curious to see how team responds.
And scratch my J.R. Smith for Sanders idea. It had to be done at the time of the trade. Now Smith can’t be dealt in combination with another player for two months, which is after the trade deadline. Salaries don’t match with just smith. Maybe this summer for Haywood and a psychiatrist to be named later.
Good. Smith is significantly better than Sanders. That would be an awful trade. Our team looks good now.
Sanders doesn’t want to play basketball anymore. We might need to trade for two psychiatrists if we got him..
Smells like Bynum. You could say the Cavs would never make the same mistake twice, but we know better
http://www.christiantoday.com/article/cleveland.cavaliers.news.cavs.considering.andrew.bynum.once.more/45052.htm
That’s depressing…
Are we assembling the all knucklehead team? May as well go after Ron Artest in China if we are going after Bynum. This could be the start of the Jailaliers!
The Larry Sanders of two years ago would help this team more than the JR Smith of two years ago. The JR Smith of now vs the Larry Sanders of now is like choosing between a Fiero that barely runs and newer Mustang that refuses to start.
So Wayne Ellington is on an non-guaranteed contract. A second rounder for him. No brainer, right? Especially considering all the injuries, even of the guys the Cavs just traded for?
After that, the Cavs can probably turn that OKC pick into Brandan Wright. It will probably take more than that to get Mozgov.
Wright would be ideal.
He’s not a banger, and a little thin, but he’s a great finisher, and a good p/r big on offense and defense.
Pretty sure the Cavs have no second round picks until 2020 now.
I’m with Gregg about wanting to see if Haywood can play. Every time I see him in garbage tine he looks in shape and moves up and down the court smartly. However, with Blatt’s current defensive scheme of trapping and hedging hard any big we get needs to be super mobile.
I also cannot see the teams picks netting a big guy. We should just save those picks and if need be try to get some more for Haywood in the offseason, so we can look towards the future money wise and hope to luck out with a second rounder.
There are a couple of bigs who will be at the bottom of the draft in the 20-30 range. Frank kaminsky, Darkari Johnson, and Bo Portis (PF) come to mind. We should be able to net one of those guys.
Thanks Robert, this piece helped to put things in a calmer place. Loved the thought that if we can get a big from one of our picks we could basically get three players for Dion. And not just fill the bench players but ones that fill needs. The hardest part of this trade for me and I believe others is JRs character but not the skill sets of the trade. I will work to let go and hope that this was due to growing up and most of that is behind him. The loyalty piece everyone was questioning about the… Read more »
Robert, great piece of writing. The little flourishes (“the team’s injury list still flutters long behind the team like Superman’s cape”, etc.) really make it. I agree with the sentiments on Dion and the trade, but I really appreciate the thought about the D-league. Fixating on Mozgov and Koufos since Andy went down gave me a limited sense of possibility. It will be really interesting to follow Dion’s development at OKC. People seem to think he makes them better, but, as you point out, he couldn’t quite get with the program here. The young man is lovable but really hard-headed.… Read more »
I imagine Dion will be better in OKC. I think Westbrook is a much better leader than Irving and that Dion will respect him.
I was a huge fan of what I thought Dion could become and had high hopes that he would become that this year. However, it was not meant to be. I wish him well, but the more the season went on, the more it became apparent he was not what the Cavs were looking for. Even IF Shumpert and JR Smith don’t workout for us, we still didn’t exactly lose this trade, because I doubt we could have gotten anthing remotely better than them for Waiters (who was not likely to stick around after this season anyways.) These next couple… Read more »
Kyrie, Shump, Lebron, Love, and Thompson is a good starting five.
JR Smith as first man off the bench followed by Miller and Marion is a nice 8 man rotation. If Andy had stayed healthy for once this team would be looking pretty sweet. As it is we could use a 10-15 minute a night bigger guy.
Nice job by Griffin so far.
Still need a benc big (or two.) Even with Marion able to play small-ball four, you ideally want two guys. I think we should be able to sign Dalembert, which should help a lot. Add in one other guy (and I am NOT nearly as hot for Mozgov as most Cavs fans) and we could actually start playing up to our potential.
I’m with you. I’m not going to be upset w/Mozgov. He’s big enough to knock a few guys around . . . and actually has stats slightly below TT’s. But I don’t understand the level of desire Cavs fans have for him.
Certainly, he gets bonus points for completing the team and filling out the lineup.
Interestingly (and as ESPN reports that Mozgov is close to being a Cav), Blatt has actually coached Mozgov before – in the 2010 World Basketball Championships…. not sure how this matters, but it would suggest that the two are familiar with each other.