The Point Four-ward: Then and Now
2015-05-28Four points I’m thinking about the Cleveland Cavaliers…
1.) Okay, confession time. I spend an inordinate amount of time thinking about the 2007 Cleveland Cavaliers. Still. To this day.
In particular, as these playoffs have continued, I’ve found myself increasingly suspicious of the narrative that LeBron James is pulling along his current crop of overmatched Cavalier teammates kicking and screaming on his one-man mission to return to the Finals. Clearly, James has been huge for the Cavaliers. No one is arguing against that. It just seemed like there was a difference between this year’s team and James’s previous Cavaliers squads, particularly the one that made the 2007 Finals — that even if the Cavs were leaning on James more in these playoffs (and your can’t argue that James’s 2015’s playoff usage rate of 36.4% is a substantial uptick from the 29.7% usage he posted in the 2007 playoffs) that his teammates this year were performing better in support of James.
In that way, as James and head coach David Blatt have said, this is very much a team now, in a way that it wasn’t in 2007 when the roster was more built to support the talents of a 22-year old one-man wrecking crew.
2.) Most of the numbers don’t do much to clarify this position. Yes, Kyrie Irving’s 18.7 PPG average in the playoffs is a better “second banana” to James than was Larry Hughes’s 11.3 PPG on 34% shooting. [Note: Hughes actually started the 2007 playoffs very strong, topping James by scoring 27 points in Game 1 against Washington, then following up with 19 points in Game 2. As the playoffs wore on, though, Hughes was slowed by injury (sound eerily familiar?) and from facing increasingly better defenses.]
But, aside from that, most of the other 2007 rotation players are within a point or two per game of their 2015 versions. Then, I noticed a fun stat: the 2015 Cavaliers have 10 players with a True Shooting Percentage over 50%, led by Tristan Thompson’s 61%. In fact, James is the only regular player with a sub-50 True Shooting Percentage at 49.2%. But, you know what? 2007’s True Shooting Percentage isn’t god awful. Led by Daniel Gibson’s 61%, that team still featured five regular players shooting over 50% TS.
Still, I couldn’t shake the idea that this crop of non-LeBron Cavs were playing better than their 2007 versions. They were making more big plays. They were hitting more key shots. They were being more efficient.
Efficiency. You’d think that’s where the difference starts to show. Excluding James’s 24.8 PER, the 2015 Cavs have five players with a PER over the league average of 15 and Irving leads the team with an un-Kyrie-like 17 PER. But the 2007 Cavs (again led by James and his PER of 23.9) had Zydrunas Ilgauskas with a PER of 18 and Daniel Gibson nearly tying Kyrie with a 16.8 PER.
So… dunno. All I know is that watching this Cavaliers team feels different somehow. Different good. Maybe it’s quantifiable good. I’m sure it is, actually… I just thought it would be more easily quantifiably good.
3.) Perhaps my strongest memory of the last Cavs team to take this trip into the undiscovered country, though, is the feeling that we’d be back. Soon. Next Year. Again and again.
But in 2008, Danny Ferry, the architect of Atlanta’s resurgence this season, finally figured a way to wiggle out from under Larry Hughes’s bloated contract (by taking on Ben Wallace’s) only to bring LeBron new teammates with names like West and Szczerbiak without enough time to gel before they ran into the buzzsaw that was the 2008-eventual-champion Celtics. The next year, it took an historic shooting performance by an Orlando Magic team that featured a player who would soon after get busted for testing positive for performance enhancing drugs, the surprisingly brief peak of a player most assumed would be one of the league’s best for the next decade, and Hedo Turkoglu. Then we all know what happened in 2010.
So, while it’s been five straight trips to the NBA Finals for LeBron James and six overall, it’s just the second one in the history of the Cleveland Cavaliers franchise. Things happen. Turkoglus happen. Every year, there is a different team of destiny — and rarely do we know which team that gets to be until they near the finish line. Maybe it’s Cleveland this year. Maybe it’s Golden State. Both have made solid claims so far.
So, enjoy this ride, Cavaliers fans. There might be more of these. But there might not be. In the coming storm of wins and losses, remember what an insane gift of a ride it has been to be a fan of Cleveland Cavaliers basketball for the last 12 months and continue to enjoy this weird, wonderful team.
4.) Another reason I’m so hung up on 2007? I wrote a dang play about it.
Back in 2011, Scott Henkle and I wrote Our Greatest Year about a young married couple returning to Cleveland to care for an ailing parent… and some historically ailing sports franchises. 2007 was the Cleveland-iest of Cleveland years as each of the Cavs, Indians and Browns achieving some dizzying highs, only to have each season end with an all too familiar thud.
Some of the biggest laughs the play would get is when one of the characters says of LeBron, “He’s the best. And he’s ours. And we, who have a hard time feeling good about anything, are made quite a bit of happy.” Of course, that was in 2011 (and in subsequent performances in 2012) where the sting of The Decision was at its freshest. The “he’s ours” was always meant as a bit of a comment on our own covetous attachment to athletes, but the laughs came from a place of “Boy, you have no idea what’s in store…”
Likewise, we don’t know what’s in store for the Cavs and LeBron this time around. For that very reason, it took me a long time to rediscover my joy of watching LeBron James as a Cavalier this season. Slowly, though, that joy has returned and this playoff run, in particular, has made me quite a bit of happy.
Between the live-action scenes of Our Greatest Year were these motion comics (written and illustrated by Mr. Henkle) and I thought I’d share the first one of the series today, as it’s the most Cavs-centric and best fits my current LeBron state of mind.
Onto the Finals, kids…
@Rusty_SFChron: Klay Thompson has been diagnosed with a concussion, according to Warriors. He won’t return to court until he’s cleared by league protocol.
Could anyone more knowledgeable to the concussion protocol explain what it usually means and how many days it usually takes players to clear it?
It really depends on how the person responds. Each concussion is different and each person responds differently. My guess is that he plays from the start but wouldn’t be surprised if he missed a game.
Thanks a lot.
Hope he plays honestly. Wouldnt want to come into the game unprepared even in the slightest and mostly I dont want them to play with a chip on the shoulder.
Let them think the beast from the infinitely difficult West will steamroll whatever pathetic team survived the basketball plague that is the East.
Two of the distinguishing characteristics of this Cavs team are the intensity they play with and the comraderie amongst the players (compare Kyrie’s “these are guys I’ll go to war with any day” to previous frustrating years). It’s true that Griff brought in players that are mature, good people . . . and I’m sure LBJ has them playing with intensity. However, Blatt’s demeanor plays a huge role in this. He always supported all his players and never threw any player under the bus this season. We called JR Smith bad stuff. Blatt said he was the ultimate professional since… Read more »
Again:
“When we did checks on him, we must have talked to 70 or 80 people, literally. We couldn’t find somebody to say a bad word. There’s something about him. It’s hard to put your finger on it, but there’s something about him. He’s a good soul and he knows how to get these guys to love each other, to play for the team. That to me is the most important thing”
Anderson Varejao could be activated for the NBA Finals, per report http://flip.it/9UxpP
It’s hard to imagine that working, unless he’s been doing full practices with the team. But it’d be great to see him come in to dribble it out if we get a big lead in a closeout game. Maybe Kevin Love too.
mentioned this when we 1st got blatt ( and also our early struggles)—he was used to the euro league where you play every 4-5 days and have ample time to recover/ prepare –it was an early season learning curve—when given time to study an opponent ( check his Russian team in Olympics ) he will have a thorough game plan with a very good chance for victory —yes much maligned / criticized–very seldom praised
Yes. Blatt has been great figuring out game plans.
I hope Lebron buys into Blatt for one more series and does not go Leiso unnecessarily
Absolutely baffled at how little people are talking about how Blatt just straight up out coached the COY in the Eastern Conference Finals with a more depleted roster.
That’s the wages of coaching LeBron. He could be better than Phil Jackson and Red Auerbach put together, and he still wouldn’t get any credit.
this is so unfortunate. He didn’t just out coach bud…he friggin cut off bud’s balls. I don’t mean to be vulgar but Bud had this look of dejection on his face during the 4th quarter of game 1 that never left. He was baffled, confused, annoyed, and angry. He had an inferior team, mind you (even with our injuries all you had to figure out with the hawks was how to turn horford and teague into scorers first and passers second and you’d solved their riddle). He had a vastly inferior team. But for him not to have a single… Read more »
I put a lot of this on Teague. He let Delly get in his head and stopped setting up Millsap and Horford. Horford, especially, was the Hawks’ best option.
Though, everyone was saying that after game 3, when he put up good numbers before getting kicked out, and then in Game 4- 2 points I think. Sure, maybe some of it’s on Teague, but part of being a good coach is having your team mentally prepared to deal with irritants like Delly. If you can’t do that, you can’t be a good coach in this league. Blatt has done a damn good job of keeping his players mentally prepared this playoff run. LeBron absolutely helps too, but the only problem was the JR ejection, otherwise, he has them playing… Read more »
He didn’t just outcoach the reigning coach of the year. He outcoached, in order, the hottest young coach in all of organized basketball, the coach with the best reputation for squeezing all he can out of his players, and then swept the reigning coach of the year. And he basically exposed Bud’s system in the simplest way possible – by overswitching and forcing their worst shooter to be their only shooting option.
I called this right before the playoffs. I wish I knew which thread I posted it in but I believe I said something along the lines of the playoffs being the perfect stage for Blatt to showcase his coaching talents. When he is repeatedly facing the same team and has practices and time to adjust for each game he is a complete nightmare for any other coach. Everything we heard about him leading up to the season assured me that this would be the case. It really is impressive to watch if you understand basketball and the effects of coaching… Read more »
And oh ya, he beat the WC COTY to the finals as a first year coach.
Yup. Oh, and by the way: Mike Brown Years in Playoffs with LBJ: 5 Number of Series Sweeps: 3 Erik Spoelstra Years in Playoffs with LBJ: 4 Number of Series Sweeps: 2 David Blatt Years in Playoffs with LBJ: 0.75 Number of Series Sweeps: 2 Oh yeah, and the last series against the Hawks was the first time any of LBJ’s teams have swept in the conference finals. It’s hard as hell to sweep a team, yes the EC is weak, but it has been for years, pretty much all of LBJ’s run. And yes there were injuries in the… Read more »
just got done watching the spelling bee on espn ( no cavs game what else am I supposed to watch )—guess what —there is NO ” I ” IN ” TEAM ” —–THE CAVS HAD THAT FIGURED OUT LONG AGO !!
was thinking they could do a skit on the word WOMBAT
-ORIGIN PLEASE: —-Australia
-definition please :–fierce animal that ” preys ” on weaker foes and wears the CAVS WINE AND GOLD —is a favorite pet of a man named COLS
–HAVE SOME FUN WITH THIS “WOMBAT ” SPELLING BEE —–add to the lst !!
By the way the kid Gokul who was one of the winners had a Lebroan’s jersey under his shirt. Eat that LilB!
I am sticking with my “Cavs in six” projection. I even think there is a prayer of a Cavs sweep! (BTW, thanks for the weed, Cols!) Here is my dream scenario: Game 1: CC defense blitzes GSW on D, JR goes 9 for 11 from far, GSW fall apart, Mike Miller gets five minutes and six points. Game 2: GSW has a better plan and great shooting, game goes back and forth, and TT tips in a missed shot at the buzzer for the win. TT goes for 10, 22, and 4. Game 3: A grind it out hard game,… Read more »
Check out the Wombat’s big moment in college:
http://www.nba.com/2015/news/features/scott_howard_cooper/05/28/st-marys-celebrate-dellavedova/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpts
@SportsCenter: Fresh off his “curse” of James Harden, rapper Lil B is threatening to go after LeBron James next. http://t.co/Yxp8awjfor
Ridiculous that this gets any play on SportsCenter… what a complete joke…
I hope he does it. Then when we win the championship, this dumbass story can finally be put out to pasture.
I think we are working with a couple of curses already. So maybe they will cancel each other out.
Hehe good point Arch…….
Someone tell the Based God he’s stealing curses from cleveland sports
Can we curse the Based God for stealing Curses? We could probably sue if we found a couple witches and warlocks to join a class action suit.
Ross Gumdrop
YOU OWE ME $50
@560WQAM: Report: Dwyane Wade ‘Open to Leaving’ the Miami Heat http://t.co/9UALqG1M8O http://t.co/7dy3IUCLTP
As long as its not with us, who cares. If he were to somehow sign with us, I might quit.
Wade would be the perfect 6th man for his team.
Having 2015 Dwyane Wade as your sixth man is like having 2013 Derrick Rose as your sixth man.
I wouldn’t hate it, but it would have to be for the right price, and I bet the price he wants is over my limit.
Veteran’s Minimum! hahahahahahaha that’s what I will accept for taking on the broken Wade.
I guess this love thing is just not going to go away —as much as I don’t want to create / respond about the love soap opera —let me throw this out— can we / would we be willing to talk with the lakers in a possible trade–LOVE for their draft pick ( #2 overall )–I mean if love wants to leave and we know what TT CAN DO ( and the money / contract he/ agent will be demand ) maybe this is a viable option—again I am hoping we can sign all current players but we can’t just… Read more »
Nope. We are signing Love and TT. There’s no reason to let either one leave.
Cols is right. You can be sure neither of them wants to go.
The storyline that Love will go to LA so he gets to shoot more is insane. He would shoot less, because Kobe is still there, and the team will be tanking — the worst of both worlds.
Well, if Love *wants* to leave (and I have no idea), then the Lakers would be insane to do that, since they could just sign him. But they would be insane to do it in any case. The second pick in what looks like a very good draft at the top end is just too valuable to a team with a lot of needs.
If he were to sign elsewhere, the Rockets would make a lot more sense, but the Rockets would have to free salary by trading Dwight, probably, as far as I know. I don’t have much doubt that they will make a run at Love.
The reason you could engineer the trade if he truly wants out, rather than simply lose him, is because of the Bird Rule. It creates an incentive for teams to either lock up their stars long term or get compensation for them if they can’t.
While this is true, the Lakers aren’t giving up the 2nd pick in a potentially very good draft for this small advantage. If he wanted to go to LA, they’d just sign him. (Or trade some much less valuable commodity)
This is all just coming up because Woj is an trying to fan the fires… Everything we have heard about Love’s personality would suggest that he wouldn’t mind being 3rd fiddle. After all, he has regularly shied away from the media circus in Cleveland and they are saying he wants to go to the Lakers? Ya, that makes sense. Leave one spotlight for another.
“After all, he has regularly shied away from the media circus in Cleveland and they are saying he wants to go to the Lakers? Ya, that makes sense.”
Good observation, JMay.
Another thing:
To go far in the playoffs, a team needs one or more really strong leaders. Of which, LeBron is the best. KL is a quite wallflower kind of guy who could never play the strong leader role even if he wanted to. And he does not want to be a leader, or take most of the shots.
He is in a perfect situation now. He ain’t going nowhere!
Thats one of the reasons it didn’t quite work out in Minnesota. They are gonna figure things out and it’ll be a beautiful sight next season.
Given the way they protect their players, I could see him pushing for the Thunder in that case, but his best option, both money and personality wise, still seems like Cleveland. Of course, LeBron’s best two options in 2010 were Cleveland and Chicago and we saw how that worked out.
Oy. As much as I love the idea of getting something for Love if he walks (and I don’t think he will), no one is giving up the second pick of the draft for a guy they can sign outright. There’s very few advantages to sign and trades now, and almost none to teams that are that far under the cap. Now giving up the second pick of the draft for ‘Melo? That’s something the Lakers might be dumb enough to consider.
Is this article about KLove is true….. He has to be the dumbest human being alive…
http://www.thescore.com/nba/news/771565
If I remember right, Kevin Love has said that he’s staying. It’s not inconceivable that he’ll go back on his word, but I think it’s kind of insulting to him that the journalistic community are so certain he’s going to.
This really seems like a non-article, thrown together with the same old information. Nobody (including Woj) ever seems to get anything directly from Love…
To be honest if he is legit worried about his injury history Gilbert will happily sign him to a max deal THIS offseason before the cap explodes. That’s his absolute best insurance policy financially speaking.
I was thinking exactly that. I wouldn’t be surprised if he opts out, but I’d be very surprised if he isn’t in a Cavs uniform come November. With the cap about to explode, I think we’ll see the Cavs offer at least him and TT what Simmons called market max contracts, so they’re locked up through their primes at high but reasonable values and the Cavs pay massive taxes one year to keep the core of the team together long term. This is assuming Gilbert is the anti-Reinsdorf, of course.
I took it as a cow throwing up grass just to chew on it again. Love has always been upfront with how he feels. He didn’t hide that he was disappointed at not receiving a five year contract from the Wolves. He pushed for a trade to four team (Cavs, Suns, Rockets, Celtics). He got his wish. He’s been adamant that he wants to play in Cleveland and flat out said he has no interest playing for the disco sugar Lakers.
@LILBTHEBASEDGOD: Sending a warning to lebron James Kyrie jr smith and iman shumpert yall stealing swag Lil B cooking dance what yall doing #warned – Lil B
@I_Am_Iman: . @LILBTHEBASEDGOD Preciate the swag killa . I cooks I chef all love
@LILBTHEBASEDGOD: @I_Am_Iman appreciate it brother I got you enough said GO CAVS – Lil B
Well Lil B is from NorCal, so I’m sure he’s using his Based God powers to bless the Warriors…
I’m pretty sure he also “blessed” the Hawks. Wasn’t that a thing?
I think the Hawks begged him not to curse them?!?!?! Lol!
The President chimes in on the finals –
@POTUS: .@NathenVieira jr smith having a great season but the heart of the Cavs is Lebron. And no one can outshoot Curry – maybe Korver if wide open
If Kyrie is able to contribute but not 100%, why not use him as the 6th man? Max out his minutes when Curry is resting. Start Shump/JR/LBJ/Moz/TT and destroy them on the boards.
I think they may kind of do this, except that Kyrie will start.
The most likely thing is that Kyrie starts and plays shorter minutes, eventually giving way to JR, Shump, and Delly in the 4th quarter as the defensive vice closes.
In 50,000 simulations of the NBA Finals, Golden State wins over Cleveland 68.3% of the time. The most likely scenario (as seen below) is a five game series won by the Warriors who have home court advantage and would close out that series in front of the home crowd at Roarcle. The current consensus lines have Golden State as a -240 favorite to win the series and Cleveland at +190. To be comfortable wagering on either side, one would have to be at least 70.6% confident in the Warriors at -240 or at 34.5% confident in the Cavs at +190.… Read more »
I love this. I am sure they are using full season statistics, which include the effects of things like: “Dion Waiters” and “Shawn Marion starting.” If they ran the simulations based on post Jan 15th data or playoff data, it would change dramatically. But why would anyone want to do something objective like that.
I say we encourage people like this to continue to overhype the Warriors. They are UNBEATABLE. The Cavs are from the East. They have NO CHANCE. Its only going to make it sweeter when we win.
This was from Mid-May @predictmachine: Cavs have 65% chance to win Eastern Conference Finals series over Atlanta and 76% over Washington
This study is interesting and has some slight predictive power, but it doesn’t mean crap. I am pretty knowledgeable about computer models (a computer scientist and applied mathematician), and for the results to actually mean anything, the models have to have real (and, correct) physics in the code, and there is no way that the predictmachine does. For example, 10’s of thousands of scientists have spent the last 50 years trying to write computer code to predict the weather on billions of dollars worth of computers. You have noticed that these predictions are very iffy for more than a couple… Read more »
Aka-maybe match ups have a pretty solid effect on the raw data. For instance tony Allan’s impact on the grid-warriors series was likely impossible to detect using raw statistical comparisons between the two teams, but had a drastic impact on how the splash brothers played. It also can’t see if a team’s offense deals with length very poorly but against standard statistically good defenses may perform above par. It’s like the NBA actually needs its coaches…
I’m really looking forward to the matchup. While everyone is focused on how to contain Curry, lost in all of the narrative is in the last meeting where the Cavs soundly beat Golden State, JR. Smith absolutely engulfed Klay Thompson. Shut him down completely.
ALSO 2 OR 3 OF THOSE LOSSES WERE ” GIMME’S ” TO THE CELTS BEFORE THE PLAYOFFS —brad d. is really knocking the firing of thibs / thinks it may hurt them long term / look for thibs to get the pelicans job and become coach of the year in 2-3 yrs
While slowly draining all the young energy out of his superstar’s long legs…just one year before they are a virtual lock to win a title
@sheridanhoops: Since Jan. 14, #Cavs are 46-11 including playoffs. Since Jan. 15, #Warriors are 48-12, including playoffs. Both teams elite for months.
Shhhhhh. Don’t print statistics like this. We want the national media to keep acting like the Warriors are heavy favorites.
We also want to make sure that no one realizes that the Cavs (without Love and KI) had a more efficient offense than then Warriors in the playoffs.
http://stats.nba.com/league/team/#!/advanced/?sort=OFF_RATING&dir=1
This is from Deadspin, pretty funny
“On Tuesday night the first-seeded Atlanta Hawks got swept out of the playoffs by LeBron James and what Cleveland Cavaliers general manager David Griffin found on the ground after holding Phil Jackson upside down and shaking him real hard.”
“The Basketball Gods curse you, Deadspin!”
Rick Kamla approves this cursing…
Cols, I thought of you as I read this article. It really is amazing. I couldn’t agree with it more. It will probably make Nate angry :) (as a side note: Burneko is the best basketball writer going right now)
http://deadspin.com/the-hawks-were-fun-occasionally-terrific-and-not-revo-1707241910
Burneko is the man. He’s off with Al Horford playing on a max contract. Horford at $12 million a year is a flipping bargain.
Now THAT was a good article. Great read!
According to NBA.com, Bulls have dismissed coach Tom Thibodeau…
What a lucky break for Thibs. Now the Pelicans won’t have to give up any picks to get him. The Bulls will be lucky to be in the playoffs next year.
The Pelicans would be really dumb to hire him. Mike Brown 2.0
They should hire Gentry from GSW or Lue from us.
Bulls are looking to hire Fred Hoiberg from Iowa St. if they can pry him away…
Maybe Doc can convince him to come and be his Defensive Coordinator…
Thibs would break Anthony Davis within two years.
I’m with Cols, and related to point 2 in this story, Barkley as well. This team passes he eyeball test more than advanced stats like PER could ever put a finger on. And there’s no stat that measures physicality and intimidation. Cavs taking it all, and they will do so on Cleveland’s home court — either in four or six. Yes, I said four.
If we do win it all PLEASE can Cols be allowed to write a season recap. As the first person here to be sure of a championship (approximately 0.1 seconds after Love signed) I think he’s earned it.
Here’s to hoping that Cols is right again…
It would be fun… it just wouldn’t be that long…
Recap: 2014-15 Cavs Season (or, I Told You So)
by Cols714
The Cavs won it all! As I predicted they would all along.
Everyone else sucked! As I told you they would.
I was right! Don’t you wish you listened to me?
Chris Grant sucked! David Griffin is awesome!
Leb is the GOAT! Cols for President!
See you next year after the Cavs resign everyone including Love (most money, best chance to win) and win it all again!
Cols out.
PS – Where’s my money Ross Gumdrop?
Chris Grant can’t still suck can he? He nailed 2/4 draft picks and no one from 2013 is a NBA player
I was saying it from Cols’ perspective, but assume you’re kidding about no one from 2013 being an NBA player…
I’m sure in hindsight the Cavs would have loved to have had Oladipo, Noel, Len or MCW… Not to mention the Greek Freak…
It was an exaggeration no doubt. Noel would be nice but there was no way Gilbert was letting him Draft a 7’0 center with a knee injury that was out for the year when it was mandated we were going to the playoffs. I wanted Len but still don’t know if he’ll ever be healthy and Victor Olidpo’s ceiling is a super sub imo. The Greek Freak would have been the ultimo greatest ballsiest pick.
I think Cols has come around on TT is my point
I would have been fine with a trade down since there was no consensus first overall pick. I wanted Noel too. Either way, it’s over and the team has more talent than we ever could have dreamed of in 2013.
Hahahaha. Very true
1. Ferry ruined the Cavs while LeBron was here. 2. This team has Shumpert and Smith who are better than anyone on that 2007 or 2009 team. 3. Our bigs in Moz and Thompson are better than the bigs on any of those teams 4. Kyrie There is really no comparison. This team is much much better than any other Cavs teams we have ever seen. Shump and Smith have been great at both offense and defense. They’ve been locking down the perimeter. The Warriors have not seen a team that plays relentless defense like this Cavs team has been… Read more »
So the Griz’s defense wasn’t relentless on the Warriors?
It really wasn’t. The Western Conference playoffs outside of the Clippers and Spurs did not feature the same intensity that Cavs/Bulls and Cavs/Hawks did.
The Cavs were all over the floor diving for balls and contesting every three pointer and trying for all the rebounds. The West did not have this type of hustle/intensity.
Smith and Shump have been defending like crazy. I think this has been way overlooked. GSW are not getting the same amount of lcean loosk that they’ve got so far.
The first three games against Memphis were similar. Then the Grindfather hurt his hammy again and the series was done.
I totally agree with Cols on the intensity thing. The Clips/Spurs series was intense. Outside of that and the aforementioned three games with GS/Memphis, the West has been softer physically than the Cavs’ three series. The Warriors do play with an edge, but they haven’t faced the kind of toughness that Cleveland exhibits.
Good point. The beginning of that series was very Eastern like. This is why I have faith that we can beat them. But we need healthy Kyrie.
While Tony Allen was healthy the Grizzlies D was quite effective on the Warriors. Im really excited to see Shump guard Curry rather than 37-year-old Jason Terry.
I’m convinced that the Grizz would have at least extended that series to seven games if not for the unfortunate Tony Allen injury. I said this on the last podcast, but Curry shot 39% and just 27% from three in the first three games where Allen played. With Allen missing for most of the rest of the series (he played just 14 minutes of Game 4, was out for Game 5 and played just 5 minutes of Game 6), Curry shot 44% and a blistering 51% from three…
The Griz’s D is a good sign for the Cavs. Before Allen got hurt in that series, they were up 2-1. My friend who is a diehard GSW fan said to me that Allen was single-handedly blowing up their O. I think Shump/Delly/JR/LBJ can play that kind of role against GSW. In fact, they did in February when the Cavs dominated GSW.
The one concen is Kyrie. In the February game, he also played great D. If he is hobbled on D, it will be tough to hide him against GSW the way we did with Atl and Chi.
Yeah, this is my concern as well. Kyrie’s health is the one thing that could derail us.
Cols, if Kyrie is himself again, then you are absolutely right. I also agree that individually, this roster is better than the 2007 roster. But, that team defended incredibly well. It is still an underrated TEAM.
2007 Big Z and Andy did different things than Moz and to a lesser extent, TT, but I don’t think they were worse than today’s frontcourt.
Still, the individuals aren’t as important as what the team did.
Individuals matter much more than the team. We just spent and ECF proving that vs the TEAM THAT EVEYONE LOVED Hawks.
This team would wipe the floor with that one. Shump, Kyrie, Smith, TT, and Moz are all better on both ends thatn their 2007 counterparts.
Lemme be clear. I think this team is better than the 2007 team because they are far stronger mentally than any Cavs team I think I have seen. They play so hard on a consistent basis and have twoway talent all over the floor.
I will always fight the narrative that the 2007 team sucked. If people liked/respected defense as much as I do, they would recognize how that team advanced. For the season, it wasn’t an impressive team, but for about two months, that team played its defensive guts out. They deserve more respect than they are given.
Exactly right. A 22 year old LeBron and Z in his last good year, a few shooters and an all time great playoff defense make a title contender. No two ways about it. To say that any Finals team has ever sucked is a discredit to the crucible of the NBA playoffs.
2015 Delly > 2007 Snow
Shump = Pavs
2015 Lebron= 2007 Lebron
2015 TT > 2007 Andy
2015 Moz Then JFJ
Larry Hughes + Boobie < JR + 50% Irving
Its pretty close individually
Moz JFJ
Sorry there was a typo
Again Moz < Z
Gooden and Marshal are better then Jones
Shump > Pav. more athletic, plays better D
Pavs turned it over way too much.
Talking about a 2007 team playing vs. a 2015 team…. I told you he’s a time traveler… and the King of Impossible-to-Prove-“facts”
1. Lebron played a large role in ruining the Cavs the first go around. Gilbert, and to a lesser extent, Ferry enabled him by letting him have whatever he wanted, but he was more the architect of those teams than he is of this one. 2. Shumpert reminds me very much of one Delonte West. Great defensively, can hit a three (he shot over 40% that year if I remember). Smith is better than Mo Williams, and Mo Williams was better than Delly. 3. Thompson = 2009 Varejao. Moz is different, maybe better, than Z. Z stretched the floor for… Read more »
So many pundits rip on that 2007 team that the reality of how good that team was is now lost. Much like this year, LeBron didn’t have a great regular season. But in the playoffs, the 2007 team locked down on defense to a level that is almoat always now overlooked. Basketball is a twoway game and yet people act as though that 2007 team was the worst Finals team ever. It was a flawed team to be sure, but had it gone up against a lesser coach, perhaps LeBron never leaves Cleveland. The first three games were very tight… Read more »
The 2007 and 2009 Cavs were absolute garbage outside of LeBron. This team has Irving, Smith, and Shump and Thompson. All of those guys are better than their old Cavs counterparts.
It’s not close. Just because you loved those old teams and nostalgia doesn’t make them better. This team would blow away the 2007 and 2009 squads by 30 points.
No doubt the Cavs are better now, but not 30 ppg better.
If you could magically transport the 2007 Z and Pavs to the current Cavs bench for added depth, the Cavs would be a lock to win the finals.
Actually, I talked yesterday about how the front court was a wash and how the back court and wings the weak link. Gibson probably would have played ahead of Delly too.
The 2009 squad? They came pretty close to your mythical 70 wins.
The 2009 squad won 39 consecutive home games. Lost the first and last one of the season.
they didn’t play the starters in the last game either
FiveThirtyEight applied Elo ratings to the NBA. According to that, the 2009 Cavs rank as the 13th best team ever.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-best-nba-teams-of-all-time-according-to-elo/