The Time Klutch Lost at Chicken
2015-10-05Last week we Cavs fans waited with baited breath to see what Tristan Thompson would do. We all thought he would either reach an agreement with the Cavaliers, or take a one year $6.8 million qualifying offer and elect to become an unrestricted free agent next summer. I even reported that the Cavs could extend his qualifying offer out till March (and incorrectly reported that they’d done it with Andy before). But very few of us expected Tristan Thompson and Rich Paul to do what they did: absolutely nothing. By doing nothing, they officially made Tristan Thompson a holdout, and removed the one bit of leverage Tristan had: the threat to take the qualifying offer and to leave town next summer. I guess they didn’t want to make nine million less this year than what the Cavs were offering. Maybe Rich Paul realized that it’s not that smart to play chicken against a semi when you’re driving a weinermobile.
It’s hard to see the end game for Thompson and Paul here. The Cavaliers own Tristan’s rights through next summer. Unless someone else signs Tristan Thompson to an offer sheet, the Cavs can simply wait for TT to sign. The only teams with cap room to sign Tristan Thompson to an offer sheet are Philadelphia and Portland. Neither seem especially incentivized to sign undersized bench center. Philly holds on to their cap room so they can absorb bad contracts and waiver pickups, and add to the ever expanding list of teambuilding “assets.” Portland has Ed Davis who does most of what Tristan Does at 40% of TT’s asking price. Additionally, the Cavs don’t have to sign any contract they don’t want to. They could simply say, “nah” till next summer and then we’d go through this process again.
The whole game is causing a palpable level of angst and vitriol among Cavs fans. The overwhelming consensus seems to be, “no other team in the league would pay TT $80 million over five years, and he wants more than that?!!” Even LeBron James weighed in on Instagram this weekend in his unique passive aggressive way.
James further clarified after practice on Sunday that “he wasn’t trying to apply pressure to the front office to accept Thompson’s demands.” according to the NE Ohio Media Group’s Joe Vardon.
That is not what I’m saying, Like I said, I believe both sides will get something done. Throughout the negotiation process, it’s always both sides. It’s not just one sided…
[It’s] kind of like the elephant in the room all over, for everybody…
The last thing you need is a distraction when you try to make a championship run, and we have that right now.
Unfortunately for Klutch Sports The Cavs are under no obligation to end this quickly, other than for the sake of team unity. They spent all of Friday removing Tristan’s name and visage from the Q, and his gear from the team shop (which I assume they have to do since he’s not under contract). Cleveland has all the leverage at this point, and the depth at the big spots to wait Tristan Thompson out, assuming Kevin Love is ready to start the season. And that’s what stinks more than anything about this situation. Tristan Thompson has put himself in a position where he has to root for his team and his teammates to fail if he wants to improve his bargaining position.
This isn’t a Festus Ezeli situation. If you recall, Ezeli was allegedly accused of rooting against his teammates (report by Grantland’s Zach Lowe) by coach and master manipulator Mark Jackson.
When Ezeli was injured last season, Jackson and his staff told the healthy players that Ezeli was cheering against them — so that he would look good, according to several team sources. Players confronted Ezeli in a meeting, and he wept at the accusation — which he denied.
No, Tristan has put himself in a position where he is looking to enrich himself through his teammate’s struggles. By all accounts, Andy is looking spry, Sausha Kaun has shown good defense and good hands, Mozgov should be ready, and Kevin Love is trim and his shoulder is feeling good. The Wine and Gold scrimmage tonight and this week’s pre-season games should give us a good look at how the Cavs are fixed without Tristan Thompson. Unfortunately, Thompson needs them to be bad, and that’s not good.
We’ve heard multiple reports of how an “average player holding is the Cavaliers hostage.”And it’s hard to see that behavior as anything other than greed.
The TT camp isn't saying he's worth what they're asking, they're saying CLE can't win a championship without him, and have to pay for that.
— a! (@JohnKrolik) October 2, 2015
Further, Thompson has forced us to look at his warts instead of the things he does well (character, durability, defensive utility, and rebounding), forcing some of us to concede, “yeah, he really is average.”
https://twitter.com/CoryHughey/status/650531592373411840
Some age-23 close comps for Tristan Thompson: Sam Dalembert, Josh Boone and Dale Davis. http://t.co/sq7D5uQ6nK pic.twitter.com/YCd8VeHh3F
— Tom Haberstroh (@tomhaberstroh) October 2, 2015
And the 4 year $44 million extension that John Henson signed isn’t looking good for Thompson either. Henson and Thompson are very comparable except for the fact that Henson is a much better shotblocker and more opportunistic scorer. Henson signed for about 60% per year of what TT wants.
But I get it. Thompson looked around this summer and saw all these mediocre players getting paid, and he feels he’s at least as good as Reggie Jackson and Enes Kanter. And I get the Cavs position too. They were reportedly very close to signing a five year $80 million dollar deal and Thompson backed out, according to Steve Kyler of BasketballInsiders.com. The gap between the original number and the $94 million max Rich Paul was demanding later in the summer comes down to pride and money for Thompson, Rich Paul, and the Cavaliers.
Thompson doesn’t want to admit he’s not as good as Draymond Green. (He’s not). Rich Paul doesn’t want to admit he screwed up (badly). And the Cavs don’t want to pay a guy more than they feel they should have to and were minutes from agreeing to (and paying the associated luxury tax). There might be a middle ground, but with his adversarial approach, Rich Paul has probably missed the opportunity to turn into that field.
The Cavs called the bluff that Thompson would sign the QO, and Paul had to veer the weinermobile into a ditch to avoid getting run down by big-riggin’ David Griffin. Every day now, TT risks falling down his stairs, getting in a car accident, contracting an illness, or hurting himself training, then, God forbid, he’d be shut out of an $80 million dollar deal that is only on the table through the goodness of David Griffin’s and Dan Gilbert’s hearts. Thompson’s only recourse for more more money now is to sit on his bum, do nothing, and root against his own squad. He’s starting to look like a real weiner.
no problem DELLAVEYODA——I get that way too
Wine & Gold Live Thread is up!
MOONDOG NAILED HIS FIRST HALFCOURT BACKWARDS SHOT.
CHAMPIONSHIP!
Sorry NOMAD I was really excited.
Cavs don’t have to pay him. He can sit out all year, the Cavs extend a qualifying offer and he’s a restricted free agent all over again next summer. Do people not understand this? Rich Paul has nothing; he has no cards to play. He has foolishly cornered himself.
Getting Lebron to throw a little sissy-fit about how it’s a “distraction” (whatever that means) is literally all Rich Paul has. That’s pathetic.
The Klutch handbook on agenting…
Rich Paul – master negotiator.
If everyone on the team was at full health, we could win a championship without Tristan.
I wonder if LeBron will out pressure on RP to get a deal done. I’m guessing this isn’t as dramatic as it would appear “on paper”.
RP was rewarded for playing hardball with Bledsoe. I think the game of chicken is still going on. RP banking that the disruption of the holdout will be the leverage. It messed with the Cavs in 08 when Varejao and Pavlovic did it..
Except that Bledsoe didn’t hold out… The Suns lost that particular game of chicken. There is no more chicken to play here. RP and TT lost when Cavs called their bluff and TT didn’t want to have to play a whole season for just under $7M. He’ll either agree to sign the 5/80 or he’ll sit out and be forgotten…
I’d be shocked if 5/80 was still on the table. I would have left it there till Sunday then reduced it to 5/70. And let him know that if he misses regular season games it will be pro-rated
That sucks.
It probably makes them better.
That really stinks. He must have had the same or worse severity as KLove. I haven’t read the article yet so perhaps it specifies.
Always a drag to hear about these kinds of injuries, no matter what the player or team…
7:00 on CavsTV!
http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/live
I have a seminar that I have to go to tonight. Guess who’s paying NO attention and watching the game on his laptop? Yup, this guy.
Troll harder!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I’m onto you mr smith
Sounds like a friendly wager might be in order over who wins the opening day starter’s job.
Nate, if you win, you should make Cols get you one of these…
And if Cols wins… Nate has to put one of these on his car…
Or at least this hat…
Nate do you own a JR Smith jersey?
I don’t, which is really dumb. I own a Delly jersey, and a Varejao Brazil jersey. I was waiting to see if they re-signed J.R., in case I could get one at a discount, but it’s on my Christmas list now. I also want a backwards Mozgov.
I was thinking of a Mozgov Russian team jersey, but I’ve got a horrific history with buying jerseys, so I’ll wait for the extension to shake out.
Not only that but the Krolik tweet from the other day about Tristan’s camp saying Cavs can’t win a championship without him. How delusional is this chump and his agent and his agent’s employer? They had him last year and guess what? His 8 pts and 8 rebounds didn’t bring home the LArry o’brien trophy now did it? Whats to stop Delly and JR and Shump and a whole slew of others to ALL hold out and say well pay us the max or you won’t win it all w/o us either. And since Cavs can’t go and sign anybody… Read more »
That’s really the best counter to ‘the cavs can’t win a championship without him’. They couldn’t win one with him when they had to lean on him to the max.
THENEGOTIATOR MAKES A VERY GOOD PT—-HOW MANY ATHLETES ( IN ALL SPORTS ) HAVE YOU SEEN SIGN A HUGE CONTRACT THEREFORE PUTTING UNDUE PRESSURE AND EXPECTATIONS ON THEMSELVES THAT THEY CANNOT FULLFILL AND END UP BECOMING A LESSER PLAYER / BOOED UNMERCIFULLY AND HATING THE GAME ( THEY ONCE LOVED ) AND ALIENATING A FAN BASE THAT ONCE LOVED THEM —THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT T.T. REALLY NEEDS TO CONSIDER
I know I’m grinding an axe a little bit here, but really the only thing that make sense is that 5/80 was never on the table. There’s no way TT isn’t jumping all over that if it was an actual thing. And if 5/80 isn’t on the table, then I could see a protracted hold out where the Cavs are aiming for 5/55 or something and TT wants 5/65
If 5/80 wasn’t on the table, then RP would make it well known to the media that the Cavs were low-balling them with some ridiculous offer.
This is really the only thing keeping me from believing 5/80 was never on the table. The only thing I can think of to counter that is that the actual deal, while still less than 5/80, is really not low-balling someone of TT’s skill level and they know it. I mean, conceivably, if Paul talked to other teams this off-season and no one got even close to 5/65, then saying the 5/65 deal doesn’t much benefit Paul either. I really don’t know. To be honest, the much more likely scenario is Paul is driving this big, greedy, train right of… Read more »
Paul bluffed that there would be a market for TT next year so we should lock him up now before the cap explodes. He also gambled that Lebron would exercise some influence over the Cavs from office. However, Lebron stayed out of the negotiations and after looking around the league, there’s no one but the cavs to give TT a sizable contract. Paul reported that they turned down 4/42 at the beginning of the year, now its being reported that they balked at 5/80. TT’s side has already lost this negotiation and now they are scrambling to find any sort… Read more »
There’s nothing to indicate that 5/80 wasn’t on the table. If it wasn’t, why would RP be asking for 5/94? There would be a much different public perspective on the Cavs if all they had offered was 5/55 or 5/65, and RP would absolutely be putting those figures out there if that were true…
This situation has gone way way way further than it should have. Unless Tristan wants to further lose the respect of this fanbase, he needs to quit listening to his dumbass agent who just screwed him over. Lebrons even losing his patience. I know that this situation will make me see Tristan differently
This all comes down to who Tristan’s agent is. If he had any other agent in the game, this would have been finished already and probably at a much lower salary than what is being rumored on the table. 5 years/65$ million should be the absolute max the Cavs offer. And even that is too high. There is not one fan in this league or one front office in this league who would think that is a bargain if they had Tristan for that price, in year one or year 5. He’d be booed mercilessly once they realize he can’t… Read more »
COLS I RESPECT YOUR OPINION ( I KNOW I AM A MINORITY ON THIS ) —I WOULD HAVE TO SAY THAT ANDY’S REQUEST AT THAT TIME / AND CONSIDERING ANDY’S BASKETBALL SKILLS AT THAT TIME ( HIGHER THAN THE PRESENT T.T.’S ) WERE MORE IN LINE THAN WHAT T.T. IS DEMANDING
EH NOT SURE HOW SOON ” IF ” T.T. SIGNS THAT I WILL FORGIVE AND FORGET / I HAVE FORMED A NEW OPINION ( LIKE I AM SURE MANY OTHERS HAVE ) OF T.T. —-AGENT OR NO AGENT HE KNOWS RIGHT FROM WRONG / A GOOD/ FAIR DEAL FROM A BAD ONE —-THE CAVS HAVE OFFERED HIM MORE THAN A FAIR DEAL T.T. NEEDS TO ” GROW ” UP AND MAKE HIS OWN DECISIONS ( TELL PAUL TO TAKE A HIKE ) UNLESS THE REAL T.T. IS A SELF ABSORBING SELFISH PERSON WHO IS RELISHING ALL THIS PUBLICITY —-ENOUGH SAID… Read more »
It’s a contract negotiation, not a morality play. Why get all bent out of shape about it?
Because we are FANS and not all fans separate certain attitudes from our view of players. Whether you like to admit it or not, trying to get more money than you’re worth and rejecting an offer that is plenty fair just to squeeze whatever you can from employers that have been VERY good to TT, means that people are going to view TT as either selfish or delusional. Neither is a desirable quality.
Right now the most overpaid player on the Cavs roster is Andy V. And the fans seem to love him.
You love stars. Fans love players who bust their butt on the court and appear to be good individuals off it. Hence the love for Andy and Delly. Hence the love that Tristan used to have but is rapidly losing. Hence the admiration for James game but thats about where it stops with him overall as he is very polariizing. Hence the admiration for JR Swish’s game but no one is going to be upset if he wasn’t on the team this year to root for. Andy is not worth 8$ million less than Tristan other than the fact TT… Read more »
James is great both on the court and off the court. He’s also one of the most underpaid NBA players.
My guess is that TT signed with RP because RP is LBJ’s old pal. Meanwhile, RP wants to be the Scott Boras of the NBA, and he convinced TT to go along with his ploy to get him highly overpaid. So RP had TT painted into a corner. Hopefully RP realizes his bluff has been called and finds a face saving way out. OR, TT fires him. As long as TT signs a long term contract before too long, if he keeps the relentless rebounding up, by next year the fans will forget the entire episode. One aspect that is… Read more »
@WindhorstESPN: Cavs’ Matthew Dellavedova opens up about the exhaustion & dehydration that sent him to hospital during Finals: http://t.co/TCkfQhzW2K
Ugh.He shot just 19 percent (5-of-26) and averaged just five points over the final three games.
If you ever do something that can drain you, like say run a marathon, you might get a clue before you fire up the keyboard.
The NBA also took notice; the league added an extra travel day between games starting with next year’s Finals. Last season, the Cavs complained they had a disadvantage because there was less time off when they were on the road. The teams played Game 3 with just one day off after traveling from Oakland, and that may have helped set the stage of Dellavedova’s severe dehydration. The NBA knew it. Knew the new travel schedule screwed the Cavs. Man. A day’s rest for travel days? Might have made all the difference. Still one of the greatest efforts by one guy… Read more »
It was incredible. Imagine if the Cavs had won the finals. Wed build a statue of Delly somewhere. Hed be in a bunch of commercials by now….
There has to be some coffee company out there looking for an Australian spokeman…
He’s fat. /cols
Eh. A deal will get done and we will forget all this.
Everyone knows a deal will get done eventually. The question now is for how much. You taking the over or under on 5/80?
I’ll take exactly 5/80
I’m actually starting to fall under the camp that Paul might have leaked that 5/80 number and its actually something a bit lower.
I find it hard to believe that if the real number was lower, that wouldn’t have been either leaked or reported. There is no chance that RP wouldn’t have leaked it if it was lower in fact, since it would paint the Cavs in a less sympathetic light…
We’ll see what happens. If this in anyway ends up screwing Lebron’s championship run….and it looks like this is weighing on Lebron’s mind….it won’t be forgotten. Playing with fire.
Oh please. There is plenty of time left before this impacts the Cavs championship run.
It’s really amazing to think about the journey of TT to this point… Who ever thought when the debate raged about drafting TT vs. Jonas V that we’d ever be debating whether or not TT is worth a max deal (when JV signed for much less).
Ah, the power of having LeBron on your team…
TT is valuable to the Cavs. He knows it. The Cavs know. A deal will happen. Everyone will be happy and TT will be a rich man.
Cols treats us like I treat my students. “If I repeat it enough times, maybe it will stick.”
That’s exactly what it’s about…lebron allows him to thrive.
With Sixteen Candles, Gung Ho and UHF, no actor did more to exaggerate Asian stereotypes in a comedic way during the 80s than Gedde Watanabe…
Supplies!
Man, TT and Bron really don’t look happy to be at that wedding…
UHF might be Michael Richards best movie.
Is there another?
Yes but they’re not very memorable.
Sacked Lunch, Chunnell, Rochelle Rochelle… He was also in Airheads, So I Married an Axe Murderer, and the most forgettable movie of all time “Trial and Error.”
Don’t forget Transylvania 6-5000. He’s a small but integral part of this Jeff Goldblum/Ed Begley Jr. vehicle, a personal favorite in my youth.
Gina Davis as a vampire was the first crush I ever had.
You get to drink from the FIRE HOSE!!!