Thoughts on Timo
2016-01-12Things are looking pretty good for the Cleveland Cavaliers. Everyone is healthy, and the team is 8-2 since the return of Kyrie Irving. The offense is clicking, and the Cavaliers have been blowing the opposition out with increasing frequency. The defense has improved tremendously since the return of Iman Shumpert (and the removal of Mo Williams from the rotation), and David Blatt’s rotation seems to be stabilizing. Everything is coming up Cavs, right? Well maybe, maybe not.
The play of Timofey Mozgov this season has been a concern for all who follow the Cavaliers. Last season, Mozgov played tremendous basketball upon his arrival in Cleveland, averaging 10.6 points on 59% shooting to go along with 6.9 rebounds and 1.2 blocks in just 25 minutes per game. He finished 11th among centers in Real Plus-Minus—seventh in defensive RPM—and provided the Cavaliers with a level of rim protection the team sorely lacked even before Anderson Varejao was lost for the season to a torn Achilles. He seemed to be a perfect fit for the Cavaliers and destined for a huge payday when he became a free agent in the summer of 2016.
This season, things have taken a drastic turn for the worse for Timo. Mozgov has seen both his role and production diminish drastically. He is shooting a respectable 49.7% from the field, but is averaging just 6.2 points and 4.3 rebounds in 18 minutes per game. His ability to catch and finish seems to have declined drastically, and he’s fallen all the way to 72nd among centers in RPM. To top things off, Mozgov has lost his starting spot to Tristan Thompson, although Thompson has always played more minutes. There’s no doubt that Mozgov has slipped, but has he done so any more than should be expected?
While Mozgov did shoot 59% as a starter for the Cavaliers last season, that didn’t really match what he had done over the rest of his career with the New York Knicks and Denver Nuggets. Before he joined the Cavaliers, Mozgov had started 115 of the 247 games he had played in over the previous four and a half seasons of his career. During that time he played 18.4 minutes per game while shooting 52% from the field. He’s also averaged 7.0 points, 5.1 rebounds, and 0.9 blocks per game during his career, fairly pedestrian numbers. Whether he started or not, Mozgov has basically played the minutes and had the production of a solid third big man for his career. At 29 years old and playing on the most talented team of his career, it probably wasn’t realistic to expect that to change, and last season with the Cavaliers may have been a career year for Mozgov. That being said, it’s fair to expect him to be somewhere around his career averages.
Therein lies the problem that most Cavalier fans and those covering the team have, Mozgov has gone from playing well above his career norms to well below it. But a closer look shows that may no longer be the case.
After shooting 50% from the field in three October games, Mozgov dropped to just 45% to go along with 4.5 rebounds and 1.0 block in 20.2 minutes per game for the month of November. Much of this poor production can be explained. Mozgov had knee surgery in the offseason, and clearly wasn’t 100% during training camp or the first month-plus of the season. He didn’t seem to trust his knee and had trouble getting off the ground to finish around the basket, collect rebounds, and block shots. His knee has also seemingly restricted his ability to defend in space—never a strength to begin with— to the point where he has only been an effective defender right at the basket. When you add in a strained right shoulder that cost him a week of action in late November, as well as the blow to his confidence caused by his poor play, it was no shock that Mozgov was struggling.
So how has Mozgov played since returning from that shoulder injury? In December, Mozgov played 16.6 minutes per game, averaging five points, 3.8 rebounds, and 0.7 blocks per game. If you extend the rate of these statistics to his 18.4 minute career average, you get 5.5 points, 4.2 rebounds, and 0.77 blocks. These numbers are below his career per minute rates, but a positive is that he shot 53.1% from the field for December, slightly above his career average.
Thus far in January, Mozgov has played just 13.4 minutes per game. Even with Sunday’s abysmal performance against the Philadelphia 76ers, which included a second half benching, Mozgov has shot 52.9% from the field—right about his career average—and is averaging 4.4 points, 4.6 rebounds, and 0.5 blocks per game. Extending these stats over 18.4 minutes gets you six points, 6.3 rebounds, 0.6 blocks. This would still be lower than his career per minute rates in points and blocks, but his rebounding rate would actually be better than his career average. With each month Timo slowly seems to be rounding into form. Two things that may have helped him are the return of Kyrie Irving, whom he developed solid chemistry with last season, and his move to the second unit, where he can play against backup big men who will present less of a threat on both ends. His hands remain below average, and he is a liability against small ball lineups, but that’s been true for his entire career. At some point you have to accept a player for who they are.
There have been some things that Mozgov has done well all season. He has shot 80.9% from the line this season, easily a career-high. This is of great importance to the Cavaliers, as Tristan Thompson’s inconsistency with his free-throw shooting could make it difficult to play him at times. Mozgov has also remained a very good rim protector, as shown by Seth Partnow of Nylon Calculus, although as Tom pointed out in yesterday’s podcast, he has a lot of trouble securing the ball after getting the stop. Timo remains the one Cavalier big man who truly gives the opposition second thoughts before thy attack the rim. He is also the Cavaliers’ most physical presence against post scorers. Mozgov’s defense against Jonas Valanciunas in the fourth quarter of last week’s game against the Toronto Raptors was an underrated part of why the Cavaliers were able to pull away after Valanciunas had been abusing Thompson down low.
The Cavaliers may never again see the version of Timofey Mozgov that they had for 45 games last season, and that’s okay. If they get the player that Mozgov has been for the majority of his career, maybe even the one they have seen increasing glimpses of for the past few weeks, then they will still have a solid third big man who is an adequate scorer and rebounder, runs the floor hard, and is a terrific rim protector. That is the kind of player who can be a huge asset to any championship contender. At this point of the season, Mozgov isn’t quite there, but he may be closer than we realize.
Mavs coach Rick Carlisle calls Tristan Thompson “one of the best rebounders pound for pound I’ve ever seen” — McMenamen
Baron Davis has signed with the NBA D-League, per a league source #NBADL
He must have gotten sick of making movies…
CLE announces Mo Williams has been excused by the team for a personal matter. He is out tonight. He’d been DNP-CD in 5 of the last 7 games —- McTen
With open roster spot, Cavs will likely be a top destination option for a player that can get bought out between now and March 1. – Windy
Or Ray Allen…
Don’t get Cols going on that rant!
I wonder about the timing of this – its prior to the guaranteed deadline, so it saves the luxury payments, but if money didn’t really matter, wouldn’t we be better off having him to use in a trade in case someone either wants him or wants the pick we just traded as well? Is the pick worthless?
I think Dan did it for the money and the picks are protected and unlikely to change hands and almost worthless besides.
Plus, when Griffin makes a move, he usually has an idea what the next move is going to be…
I think Joe Johnson might be the guy. He could be our small ball 4 if his shot comes around
I can’t believe Gilbert would be talked into taking that contract. Johnson is pretty much done, anyway…I’d not be happy if they grabbed him.
The only Nets I’d want, if Prokhorov blows it up, are BroLo and Thad Young…
Kobe!!! Who’s with me?
No thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I’m sure Kobe would be the only one voting for that… since he’d finally have a realistic shot at ring number 6…
Lakers do have two guys that could maybe help the Cavs in spot roles that are vets who they might cut for salary… Brandon Bass and Lou Williams…
The problem isn’t so much that we need him. But last year that guy was a weapon now he’s someone who we can survive with. He forced Bogut off the court and punished GS for putting Draymond and Barnes on him. Not enough to win the series but he was a weapon. Thats gone now
Are you talking about Joe Harris or Timo?
Joe Harris also underwent successful surgery on right foot and is likely out for the season, league sources say. #Cavs save money on deal.
#Cavs traded G Joe Harris, 2017 second round pick and cash to Orlando for 2020 second round pick, league sources informed @clevelanddotcom. – Haynes
The Magic will request waivers on Joe Harris.
And they will receive them…
Say goodbye to Smokin’ Joe:
Dave McMenamin @mcten 1m1 minute ago
Source tells ESPN the Cavs have traded Joe Harris to ORL w/ a protected 2017 pick for a future protected 2020 pick. Will save CLE $3 mill
Saw him getting traded at some point. He’s not very good.
(Austin Carr voice:)
EG from deep in the archives!
Laura Nyro…wrote a lot of songs others covered….nice blast from the past.
Question: where does he get all these great images at a moment’s notice???
That’s part of the genius!
Mostly the recesses of my strange brain… and also the internet…
Good article. Moz kind of is what he is – a good rim protector and above average shooter for a 7 footer, fragile psyche, largely immobile, and unplayable against certain matchups yet completely necessary against others. The most frustrating thing is his hands. He needs to start catching concrete blocks to soften those things up a bit.
The big question regarding Moz is going to be this offseason. His playoff performance will be all that matters. He could make himself 100 mill or cost himself 100 mill and anywhere in between.
GOOD INTERVIEW WITH “MO GOTTI ” ON CAVS.COM / DOESN’T APPEAR TO BE ANY NEGATIVE VIBES COMING FROM MO –THINK WE MIGHT HAVE OVERREACTED ON THE ” ATTITUDE ” THING RECENTLY
Don’t use “we”. I never overreacted. He’s injured, but we will need him this year. He was great in November.
Cols is the only rugged individualist who takes his own path in Cavs fandome.
Don’t say “we”… say “oui”…
It’s all mental with Moz. Wish he could just calm down. Clear his mind and just play the game. Freaking Lebron does not help.
Honestly, sometimes I feel Lebron lacks so many leadership qualities when it comes to being there for his team mates.
…..I know, I know, he has been the best player in the world for the last decade and been to the FInals for 5 straight years and we’re nothing without him……. i know.
Huh? All of his teammates and ex-teammates love him and yes, the dude has led 3 teams to the Finals including 5 in a row.
No leader is flawless. Not even MJ
I agree…it may be that jumping all over Moz when he goofs up (like LBJ has done) just shatters his confidence. LBJ is a great player but he may not have understood what a negative effect his confrontational style has had on Moz…maybe he does know now, but it may be too late.
Cavaliers are 7-0 and +14.1 since Tristan Thompson was promoted to starting center. Both figures are better than Warriors over that time.
– Per someone in Twitter
To defend the W’s, they haven’t been healthy.
I bet its not better than the Spurs in that time, though. They’ve beaten TEN teams by 25 or more points, and we’re only halfway through the season. They are the terminator.
Spurs are +19.3 over the same stretch. They’re +14.2 for the season, which is an NBA record through 39 games (per Tom Haberstroh).
The Cavs are +6.5 for the season, which is best in the East.
Wizards All-Star guard John Wall will sign with agent Rich Paul of Klutch Sports, I’m told. The guard recently parted ways with Dan Fegan. – Chris Haynes
Wall will be a good back to Delly, if Mo leaves next season.
Well played, Arch. I laughed out loud.
This all kind of begs the question of why we’re not seeing more Varajeo to test out how our other 7 footer is doing now that he’s healthy… or is he just too old and bad now? I don’t get why he doesn’t even see 10 minutes when we’re dominating some of these weaker teams in case we need him later on in the season due to injury or what have you.
Because he’s old and bad. He’s the new Perkins.
I don’t think he’s anything like Perkins. He’s older and a luxary. He’s not bad. But I guess you’re bad if you’re not LeBr, Luv, or Kyreee!.
He might be less useful than Perkins. At least we can send Perkins in to add toughness or to shut up people (but not Crowder, he will just keep acting like a petulant teenager).
Come on Cols, youi’re not even trying. Andy’s offense is 1000 times better than Perk. He’s defensive has slipped a little, but not THAT much. Perkins was good for playing 2 minutes in which he used up 4 of his fouls.
May be it’s because of that great coaching , Andy is the energizer and not being involved shows the coaching brilliance of Blatt,
So Billy King is like worse than Ted Stepien. Oh the joy in Brooklyn. That franchise seems even bleaker than the Sixers.
Billy King never dropped softballs off the Terminal Tower though… hard to top Terrible Ted…
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Danny Ferry is worse than Ted Stepien. Screwed the Cavs as a player and a GM.
If Danny Ferry ever ends up missing or dead of mysterious causes… I’m pretty sure Cols will be near the top of the suspect list…
The dude ruined the 1990s Cavs and then ruined the 2000s Cavs.
Ruined implies unredeemable losing (like Hinkie) or horrific decision making that threatens to dissolve the team (like Stepien). Ferry showed up after Embry traded Ron Harper away for him, so blame Embry and the Gunds for that, not Ferry… And just because he didn’t get the Cavs to a championship, he still put a winner on the court. He wasn’t infallible, but he didn’t “ruin” the Cavs…
Seriously, dude… you really need to hang this tired axe up for good… getting reeeeeaaaallly boring…
Besides that, no one should be compared to Stepien when it comes to incompetence except Donald Sterling
How many owners or general managers forced the NBA to change its rules to limit their incompetence? I believe Stepien stands alone in that regard.
This is a really good point.
I really believe it’s time for the Celtics to hire Billy King to help them take that next step. They have the role players, King will get them the Big Kahunas. Don’t be afraid of greatness, Boston.
Despite whatever he says about his health being fine, from the eye-test he’s clearly lost all his spring/explosiveness. This is messing with his head and he’s lost confidence in his primary offensive skill (catching lobs and quick put-back dunks). He looks totally lost out there.
If I were the Cavs I’d give him some significant rest and send him to Lebron’s Miami doctor squad for a month or two ;) My fear here is that older bigs with messed up knees don’t generally age well. Here’s hoping that this isn’t a sign of a bigger issue.
Good work on write-up. 13 mins per game is too low. You can’t gauge anything meaningful from that. The team and Blatt must convey confidence in him. I do think Blatt listens maybe too much complaining from Lebron on Mosgov. He has to be able to filter some of that out, insert Mosgov in games where its obvious common sense he plays against true Bigs that TT cannot be effective against. The law of physics of a 7 footer sometimes just prevails. I’m glad you pointed out the Toronto game.
I think it is tough to see him struggle but he’ll be okay in the playoffs. Knees are tricky and probably more so for a guy with some shaky confidence to begin with. It is such a luxury to have a big 7 ft guy with real offense and defense skills on the bench for you in the playoffs. I don’t know why the Cavs would throw that away.
He’ll be fine when we need him. There’s only a few cases where his presence is needed,
I agree with this. His value will present itself in the few instances in which we need him. The only situation I can foresee his “poor” play being a liability would be against the Spurs — where he would be needed, I think, significantly. Obviously, that’s WAY down the road. And in the meantime he will improve.
I THINK WE ARE ALL IN AGREEMENT HERE THAT WE GENUINELY LOVE THE MOZ AND ARE SUPPORTING / HOPING HE RETURNS TO LAST YEARS PLAY—–PROJECTING WAY OUT ( SHOULDN’T DO THIS ) IF MOZ’S PLAY CONTINUES AT THIS LEVEL THE REST OF THE SEASON A) IS HE STILL AN ATTRACTIVE FREE AGENT FOR OTHER TEAMS/ (CAVS ) PRIMARILY WITH HIS SIZE —DOES HIS AGENT STILL COMMAND A HUGE CONTRACT —–DO THE CAVS STILL PURSUE HIM B) IF THE RIGHT OFFER DEVELOPS BEFORE TRADE DEADLINE DOES GRIFF PULL THE TRIGGER ON HIM ( SURE LEBRON WILL BE CONSULTED ON THIS )… Read more »
I don’t know that the right offer would develop… who wants to rent a struggling C in a burgeoning age of small ball, especially when that big man is heading into free agency and you might get nothing but a late-season rental? The only team I could see being interested would be the Spurs… and fat chance the Cavs would trade with a team they could face in the Finals…
I am firmly in support of Timo. He will be completely necessary for this squad. He isn’t yet 100% healthy, hasn’t been all season, and it is ridiculous that he has gotten as much flack as he has. Let’s be honest. The rest of the team has been enjoyable. There is no one for fans to hate on. Timofey is the only guy playing far below expectations, regardless of reason. Fan nature demands an object of disgust and hatred. I will not partake. Mozzy is struggling, but will come around. I am going on record. This whole thing has gotten… Read more »
Agree. The butter hands and non finishes are extremely aggravating, but for me, #teammozzy.
Completely with you Ben. You are echoing my sentiments exactly.