Podcast Episode 104: the Cold Entropy Death of the Universe
2016-06-13https://soundcloud.com/ctb-5/podcast-106-the-cold-entropy-death-of-the-universe
Nate and Tom talk about the Cavs and Warriors series and the Draymond Green Suspension. What’s ailing Cleveland? Why’d the fall apart in Game 4? What’s with these lineups? Is Lue the problem? Will the universe end with a bang or a whimper? Does Cleveland have a chance in game five?
As always, Above, Soundcloud, or iTunes
James is averaging 24.8 points, 11 rebounds and 8.3 assists per game, which would mark only the second time since 1984 that a player has averaged at least 20, 10 and 8 in the finals. (The only other time? That would be when James did it last year.)
Can’t wait till 7
Kyrie horrid court vision and inability to pass the ball, create for others has killed the Cavs this series.
For all his quickness and ability to react to what the defense is doing against him, maybe Irving just can’t process what’s happening on the rest of the court once he starts attacking — like a quarterback who can’t get past his first read. I’ll be THRILLED if he proves me wrong tonight with 15 assists.
I’ll be more thrilled if he throws in 40.
So you’ll be thrilled to see the Cavs lose?
If Irving goes for 40 they will not lose.
http://espn.go.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/16169349/is-kyrie-irving-spoiling-cleveland-cavaliers-lebron-james-title-chances-nba
Wow how Prescient of you Cola ! Except Leb also scored 40!!! What a sweet victory
Finally the National Media starts to get whats going on in the Bay Area: Tom Ziller for president. Hope u read it by now: ZILLER’S SPECIAL COMMENT: Man, it’s hilarious that THE GOLDEN STATE WARRIORS are harping on alleged disrespect. I’m not even talking exclusively about Draymond’s physical antics (like getting suspended in the Finals because in the past two months he has body slammed someone, kicked someone between the legs and swung at someone’s groin). I’m talking about the preening after shots, the premature celebrations when the ball’s in the air, the trash talk, the trash talk to the… Read more »
Yeah, basically this. These guys are all acting like they’re in junior high the last 3 days. Grow a set, and get ready to play the game.
Yeah, it really sucks that we’re down 3-1 to these guys. They all act like high school punks. Draymond on the worst. Klay is equally hard to like. Curry is a great player, and I respect his game, but he always looks like he’s trying so hard to be cool, or nonchalant, or whatever. He sits on the bench like he’s 13 years old.
Unfortunately they’ve been better all series other than Game 3. I’d love for a historical comeback.
I must admit that I didn’t want and do not think Draymond Green should be suspended for this weak back and forth with Lebron. Make no mistake, I hold him as the most unlikeable player in the League, by a good margin. And I sure think he should have been suspended for what he did to Adams, just not this. It will fire an even bigger fire for the rest of the GS players and it is a lose-lose situation for us, IMO. If we win the NBA is rigged, if we lose we are absolutely trash that we could’t… Read more »
That last sentence is what I was afraid of. At least if Donkey hadn’t been suspended you know the Cavs woulda been foaming at the mouth to come out for retribution. They should still be anyway, though. This game could get heated.
Worst thing is that it will likely cause more time for Varejao, which means more flopping, and all the flops will be called by the home refs. It’s just disgusting. Cavs players need to just run away from Varejao anytime he’s on the court. If that means giving him easy layups, so be it.
Yep. What an awful player he is. I’m so glad he’s gone.
I have 12 years of good memories with Andy, one of my all-time faves… but for every one of his successful flops in these Finals he erases one of those years… (a Warriors championship might multiply the final number by 50 or more).
To be fair, he only played 6 years of basketball in those 12 years.
Just finished listening, pretty much agree with Tom that the Cavs at least have a chance with Bray out. I think 40% is optimistic, I’d say maybe 30%. Their fans are going to be all over Lebron all game due to the manufactured narrative of him getting Bray suspended, and if they are again unable to defend the perimeter in even the most rudimentary way without giving up layups and dunks all game, it’s not going to happen. It won’t matter how many isos Irving converts.
The moneyline moved from giving the Cavs about a 1 in 4 chance pre-suspension to 1 in 3 afterwards.
What we need tonight
1. Great games from Leb and Kyrie, this is probably a given the way they’ve been playing
2. Bad games from Steph and Klay
3. Someone else on our team to score, either JR or Love
4. Some bench production would be nice. If Delly and Shump continue to play like trash, then bring in Mo and James Jones
The Warriors defense switches everything and they are one of the few teams that can get away with this because of their athletes and continuity. It’s killing our offense. It’s not pride or coaching or intelligence. It’s a areally really good team running into a great team that has also been playing together for a while.
We will get there. No need to fret.
Yet no one slips a damned screen.
This could be a fruitful angle. I have seen them try sometimes with TT to some success. Could do more of it with LBJ, but the length of Ws make it tough to thread needle to “slipper?”
another problem: JR all the way 48 feet from the basket in the upper right hand corner.
Completely agree. All of this talk, analysis, criticism of ISO ball completely misses the elephant in the room — the Ws defense is historical great and has, by its very design (and through elite defensive talent), TAKEN AWAY everything the Cavs do EXCEPT ISO. That is their gameplan. The commentary on ISO ball implicitly suggests that Kyrie and LBJ could easily be sharing the ball in an effective way, but instead choose to undermine the team via ISO ball due to ego/selfishness/stupidity/immaturity, or something like that. It is really silly. Are people not watching these games? Especially G4? In G4… Read more »
Yep HotSauce. We are in agreement.
BS. Against GS, the Cavs simply don’t cut hard through the middle towards the basket, and thus cause the warriors to backpedal. Cleveland is content to base their offense off of iso switches and when they do cut it’s off curls,etc. No one runs back door or continues the C cut all the way to the basket, which allows GS to overload the perimeter. The ball does not move from side to side, and at their worst, the Cavs don’t run any action to get the defender moving before the isolation starts. The Cavs’ offense allows GS to sit back… Read more »
Yet they destroyed all the other teams. Hmm, maybe your hypothesis is completely wrong and the Cavs have just run into a juggernaut.
It’s possible to beat the Warriors, just not easy to do.
Ways to respond to arguments: debate the points, or make excuses and generalizations that have nothing behind them. You chose the latter option (you did use a big word like “juggarnaut” – big props).
I do not think that showing one play is a good way to test a hypothesis. I test it like this: Did the Cavs play awesome for most of the year? Yep Did the Cavs just destroy the East? Yep Has everyone been telling me the Warriors are an all-time team? Yep. Have their been tons of articles about the Warriors great defense because of talent, communication and years of playing together? Yep. So I conclude that this Cavs team is everything we want them to be, just not quite good enough yet to beat the Warriors in a 7… Read more »
Nate: I see those spaces opening as well. But I am also amazed at how quickly Ws can shrink open space with their length and quickness. Your picture doesn’t capture that. That is what makes them completely different, and why we haven’t been able to use the same strategy we used previously. A lot of the Cavs turnovers this series have come from LBJ or others making a pass to space that is normally open against other teams, but that gets intercepted or deflected by the length of the Ws. I think the Cavs are looking at these exact pictures… Read more »
And they beat all these other teams by cutting hard through the basket.
Hmm, I wonder what makes it different? Do you think the Cavs woke up and decided to make Nate unhappy and not do the things you like? Or is it because THEY ARE PLAYING A TEAM THAT LOST 9!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GAMES ALL YEAR?????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Caps = Cols yelling in frustration and amusement that you think answers are so easy.
Again, I am so glad you are finally recognizing how good GS is, albeit two years late. And you are only doing it because it gives you a convenient excuse why the Cavs are losing.
MikeO, they weren’t this good last year. Last year we almost got them and would have with a healthy Irving or Love. They took it to another level this year.
Which happens when players are coming into their prime and have been playing together for a while.
Indeed. For the entire season, Cols would lambast anybody that would discuss how good the GSW are. Now he acts like he didn’t do this all freaking year.
As you’ve said over and over (and over and over and over and over and over), the East blows, and was no competition. So what does ‘destroying’ (although you might want to go back and check the results of those games…rational people wouldn’t say the Cavs destroyed all those teams) all those other teams really mean? They are playing their first real competition in these playoffs, and so far they are no competition. GS is unbeatable? OKC had them beat. I agree that they may well be unbeatable for this Cavs team. No surprise here, I have believed this since… Read more »
Sigh. Wrong. Go back and watch some film. The cavs do not and have never run a ton of OFF ball movement away from the strong side or initial action. When they ran some like the horns rub backscreen for the cutter to the basket they put no new wrinkles into that simple single action for the finals and GS did what the Raptors pathetically couldn’t do until the cavs had scored 15 times on literally the same damn action. They scouted that same action to death and shut it down. Why? Because it was literally the same SINGLE action… Read more »
Well stated, John. The Cavs are incredibly easy for GS to defend for all the reasons you detail. On top of that, they have three guys who can give Lebron a hard time (most of the East teams have nobody), put it all together, the Warriors look bored out there defending.
Obviously, we disagree. But, as I said to Nate below, I am hope you are right! Because that would mean that you and Nate have figured out an easy way to beat the GSW defense that many of the top minds in basketball haven’t figured out. That would mean that, if we just think and try harder, we could route this 73-win team. So I really hope you are right. I honestly do.
Go Cavs!
I sense sarcasm, but if we actually ran far more actual attempts at off ball actions, we would know one way or another. However, the Spurs, (the 2014 version) are the only other team in recent memory that had anywhere near as much motion and offball actions as the warriors do on a consistent basis. Honestly I hope I am right too, because if there is no way to get easier shots against that team, we are kind of screwed for the next 3-4 years. I do not think this team lacks the talent to win a seven game series… Read more »
Nice illustration of weak side action, btw.
Thanks. I know I sound like a broken record on this site sometimes, but honestly I think having more motion on the weakside off ball is one of the main things this team can do to improve drastically. Other things include better minute management and better rotations. However, bench/role players often do better in systems where they can get easier shots from a lot of cutting and passing, eg the Herculoids. I think because our offense is so reliant on our primary ball handlers creating something out of nothing for guys standing on the perimeter, the bench cannot translate that… Read more »
An implication of what both of you are arguing is that, independent of a team’s personnel, there is some ideal/optimal way to run an offense. This is one of the biggest fallacies out there — the Ws, who have 2 of the best shooters ever and a unique collection of very long and athletics 3’s and 4’s, have caused people to lose their minds. The best evidence of this fallacy is the behavior of Greg Popovich — the best coach in the league. Go watch video from the Spurs this year. How much of the off the ball action that… Read more »
The Spurs are a horrible example for your argument. Their offense was much more Iso dependent for Aldridge this year than it was at any time in the last 5 years. Then they bogged down in the playoff do couldn’t score. Age aside, the Spurs prove our point, not yours. And it’s not a complicated point: 4 guys standing and one guy dribbling is not that hard to defend.
The Spurs do not prove your point. They prove the point that, even with the best coach in the world, elite offensive schemes can get bogged down by great defense. That happens NOT because of a schematic failure (as both of you keep arguing), but because one team’s defensive scheme/personnel matches up very well with the other team’s best offensive scheme. THAT is my point. You guys keep arguing that there is some simple coaching/schematic fix that you as casual fans have devised fromreview of a few photographs that will unleash the Cavs offense. I disagree, and the Spurs example… Read more »
I respect your viewpoint, but obviously as you said I agree to disagree, because I don’t think we need to blow this team up personnel wise to beat the warriors in 7 games. I also don’t think either of Nate or myself thinks these guys are not smart enough. That is what is frustrating to me. However, my frustration is mildly tempered by the notion that the types of schematic changes I am talking are nearly impossible to institute in the middle of the season. Certainly changing offensive schemes is not easy, which is why I don’t think it ever… Read more »
I don’t think they will roll that team but I think they can win a seven game series. Also as Nate pointed out, Aldridge necessitated a post heavier offense since playing Duncan and Aldridge killed their spacing. We have no great post player statistically. Neither does golden state. We also have two guys who are pretty good three point shooters ourselves in Irving and Smith. You telling me they can’t serve as distractions moving without the ball on the weakside? You also ignore the fact that even warriors like Thompson and Curry cut off ball all the time, often utilizing… Read more »
Shump hasn’t been great on offense, but nobody expects him to be. People expect him to be a great defender and he has been a disaster. He, like many of the Cavaliers, is physically gifted and has good natural court instincts. But he does not play with his brain. Off ball, he blows assignments on a regular basis. On ball, he frequently pays no attention to a scouting report or doesn’t internalize them. It doesn’t matter how much effort you put forth if that effort doesn’t enact the gameplan. LeBron, Kyrie, and Shump have taken turns completely blowing assignments. Talent… Read more »
You and I are in agreement, mostly. Is the 3/4 the Cavs want, Crowder? He’s not a rim protector, but he’s a tenacious defender. If Atlanta blows it up, maybe go hard after Millsap. And again, this is purely hypothetical. Love’s not the problem when he’s playing well.
It’s moment of truth time for this team tonight. A lot of what happens this offseason will be based on what we see tonight.
Nah. Griffin doesn’t make moves based off of one game. He’s smarter than that. Knee-jer reactions are for the fans, not the GM/.
You’re so cute. You think Griff runs this team.
Truth. Who stays and who goes this offseason (including Griffin himself) won’t be up to Griffin.
Oh geez. You are one of those people? Haha Ladies and gents we have ourselves a LeBron truther
Last I checked it was the billionaire from Detroit.
Love and Crowder isn’t a viable answer. Either the Cavs get a much stronger rim protector than Tristan to put with Bron and Love and/or get rid of Love and get a 3/4 like Amin to slot in there. As far as specific guys, I honestly don’t know. I like Crowder and think the team would be better, but you need more length than that in the starting lineup. If the backcourt is better defensively with Kyrie gone, it changes the equation. Lots of chess pieces to move around. You can mate someone in a variety of ways, but you… Read more »
Shumpert has been truly terrible. I was shaking my head at all the minutes he was getting. I agree you start Iggy, and it’s likely Curry and Klay and the homecourt give them enough to win. I don’t see the Cavs defending the perimeter any hetter than they’ve been doing, and that’s been disastrous so far. Give great shooters open shots, guess what, they eventually wil drain them in bunches and bury you.
+1. Agree on all points.
On the ‘Can the Cavs beat the Warriors?’ discussion starting around minute 38: The Warriors come much closer to maximizing their talent than the Cavs do. That’s what is frustrating about this team.
LeBron has been just below the league playoff average on iso points per possession; Kyrie is in the 43rd percentile. But when game 4 was up for grabs, and a commanding 3-1 lead for GS vs. a 2-2 tie, that’s what the offense turned into.
The Cavs win against any team but this Waarriors team. They/ve been together for 4 or 5 years. Kepp continuity and things will improbe.
It’s not continuity: it’s pride, execution, coaching, and intelligence… or lack thereof.
It’s execution and trust. It has nothing to do with pride. And I”m sure these guys know more about basketball than you do, their intelligence is not indoubt.
Play together longer and execution and trust become less of a problem.
We’ve seen them play perfectly against pretty much everyone, it’s this Warriors team that is the problem. Keep the Cavs together and execution and trust will come.
Meh. “Intelligence” is the wrong word. “Ability to create an effective game plan and then consistently execute that gameplan under stressful situations.” Either the game plan is ineffective, or the Cavs are stubbornly refusing to execute it.
Willfullness, poor coaching, laziness… I don’t know what it is, but we’ve seen the Cavs play poorly at many many times this season, and not just against the Warriors.
And no where in this thread is anyone talking about not keeping the Cavs together. Stop responding to phantom statements.
Nah. They were 12-2. If they are playing OKC they are closing it out 4-1 tonight on their home floor. It’s the Warriors. They are really good.
The Warriors are likely to be there for the duration of LeBron’s time in Cleveland. So the Cavs need to work on getting better to be able to beat them.
And there’s lots of room for improvement. Maybe next season, make the regular season count by installing a better offense. If they spend the season working on it, then maybe they won’t fall back on bad habits in the playoffs.
Phil, yep. Just gotta keep the guys together. Their offense is beautiful when the run it, which seems to be against every team except the Warriors.
They’d be unlikely to beat OKC in this series, either the way they are playing (and the way OKC was playing), although of course their chances would be better. But it’s always a nice fantasy to claim that your team would be destroying the opponent they didn’t get to face.
mIKEo
The Cavs do not play this way against any team except the Warriors.
They play this way against any team that defends their three happy offense. Guess what, OKC would be defending it, too, not as well as GS, but good enough. The Cavs chances against a team like that would rest in OKC running a stagnant offense much as the Cavs themselves do. Hilarious how you have realized now, finally (after two postseasons of beatings) that GS is far better. Your narrative is now “GS is unbeatable, there’s just no ‘splaining it! /throws up hands”. They are beatable, but not the way the Cavs are playing. There are other teams the Cavs… Read more »
Except in those two games against the raptors, and like 20 times in the regular season. Except for that.
OKC was closest to Warriors in 2 years. Warriors lose the series without home court advantage.
Thank you for putting numbers to our observations.
Huge fan of Lebron, probably why I come here to post. That said, him lobbying for Draymond’s suspension meant, he wants to take on a warriors team, that is not at it’s best. That is not king like.
Whatever. We do not need to hear this opinion today.
Jordan used to take opposing players out the night before games to get them drunk and hungover for the next day so he’d have a competitive advantage over them. LeBron just shared his opinion on a 4x groin-offender, and suddenly he’s the most hated athlete in the world. I don’t get it.
Carson, It is so unlike any NBA player of Lebron’s caliber to complain about this after a loss. In most cases, they ignore the reporter’s question. It is like unwritten rule among NBA players. Anyway, let us hope the game will be as competitive and fun as last game. My guess, it has to be a shoot out unless Bogut can be effective for 30+ minutes.
Please stop posting this nonsense.
LeBron has said similar things in the past, about some guys’ trash talk going over the line. I’ve heard guys say similar things about Kevin Garnett in his heyday.
I don’t hold it against anyone for “violating” some unwritten “rule” of trash talk. There are just some words that you can say to a grown man and expect to get stuck. Doesn’t change on a ball court.
How did he lobby for Draymond’s suspension? After the game he said: “I don’t know what should happen. It’s not my call. That’s the league office. They’ll take a look at it,” James said. “We all saw it in the locker room.”
On this comment, you should take the “not troll” off your handle. Green is a flagrant foul machine, and deserved this suspension. He should have been suspended after the blatant groin kick on Adams of OKC. There are players that are on the edge of being dirty, but Green is over it for sure. He just can’t control himself. I wish sometime next year after another egregious flagrant, someone will become so annoyed at Green they punch him in the face like has happened in baseball recently.
Agree the Draymond should have been suspended after Adams but even in pick up games, you will not take kindly if someone stand on you. Green did bring this upon himself by putting himself into this position, so Green to share the blame too.
Even aside, setting my opinion of flagrant warrantied or not, I am bummed that as fan of basketball we are denied of the two teams taking on at full strength.
Tell Bray to stop hitting people in the nuts and we would have two teams at full strength.
He had 3 nutshots in one playoff run. No more excuses for this type of behavior.
I want to know why Shump and Delly have been dumpster fires in the Finals. What happened to December-February Delly?
Delly hasn’t even been playing enough to be a dumpster fire, and they’re not running plays he excels at. Shump has been hijacking possessions and actually taking the ball out Delly’s hands.
Delly hasn’t been playing because any time he’s in the GSW go right at him.
Awesome. Way to set an example for what is allowed in the thread!
So , assuming that’s true (which I’m not), why is Kyrie playing? Because they are literally going right at him, far more than any other defender on the Cavs. And they are very much enjoying their time doing so.
And are you commenting on a podcast you didn’t listen to again? We covered this fairly extensively.
Don’t ask the question if you don’t want to know the answer.
I think im one of Lebron biggest fans, at least in Europe ;)
But i always have to defend him in front of everyone. I never had this Problem with any other Idol.
This is so tiresome. I will not quit, but does anyone have the some Problem? Why are sportfans so bad? What has Lebron done to the World? I mean his Name is not Adolf but sometimes a think I miss something big…
:(
People love to hate the best.
Why do you feel compelled to defend him? As long as you aren’t slinging insults or misinformation about the man, there’s nothing you should have to do.
If you are a LeBron fan why wouldn’t you defend him? Dude has been nothing but great for the Cavs, hasn’t ever been involved in any scandal, his teammates love playing for him, and he gives back a ton to the community.
Great podcast guys. Made the drive through 20 miles of construction tolerable. A physical game five win would be great tonight. Win at home in game six, then who knows.
I’m 100% sure Cavs the Blog is the best.
“Dr. Kevin Love. Paging Dr. Kevin Love. Your services are required in the Emergency Room.”
Enjoyable so far guys. The chippiness & DGs suspension seems to have lifted eveyone’s mood a bit!
Wonder if you guys can do a compliation article in the offseason of the best & worst contributions to NBA culture by WAGs. Seems their comments never help, but some at least are entertaining?
and sisters? Anna Horford remains the worst.
Ayesha Curry has taken the cake for me.
She really has been awful the last two seasons. Sounds like the most obnoxious fanboy ever. Here’s a free clue, Ayesha: nobody GAS what you have to say. You get your pulpit because of who you are married to, but please STFU.