Why Shaq Shouldn’t Start
2009-07-26
(HT on Pic: AV Club)
Since the Shaq trade occurred, I’ve alluded to the fact I don’t think he should start a few times. Due to breaking moves around the league and my responsibilties as a citizen to the American Justice system, I haven’t had the time to fully spell out all the reasons why I believe Shaq would serve the team better off the bench.
Well, now I do. So here, in no particular order, are my reasons why Shaq should come off the bench for this team after coming off the bench 9 times in the first 1,117 games of his career.
To Be Clear:
This has nothing to do with how good I think Shaq is. If he has the year he had last year this year, it would be the best statistical season of anyone alongside LeBron James. In a vacuum, Shaq represents a massive upgrade over anyone on our frontline. This isn’t a question of whether we should get Shaq, or whether he should get big minutes. We have him, and he’s going to get big minutes, as well he should. This is all about how those minutes should be allocated.
Anderson Varejao Should Definitely Start For This Team, and Shaq Can’t Play With Varejao.
For almost his entire career, Anderson Varejao has been characterized as an “energy guy.” Since energy guys generally come off the bench, the Cavs fell into the trap of thinking that Andy was better suited as a 6th man, even though he was playing in crunch time and was clearly the best 4 on the team for several years.
Fortunately, the Cavs had enough depth at the four in previous years to get away with bringing a starter off the bench. The eminently serviceable Drew Gooden was the “show” starter for a few years, and last year the Cavs had the good fortune of a revival year from Ben Wallace, who actually played fantastically in the starting lineup doing many of the same things as Anderson. (He actually was having a quietly great year until a broken tibia stopped him.)
But once Anderson got into the starting lineup, it was clear that he belongs there long-term, and he was rewarded with starter money this off-season. Andy’s different from most “energy” players because of how well he understands his limitations and plays with intelligence as well as energy. It’s his rotations and hard shows that form the backbone of Mike Brown’s defense, which is absolutely something that has to be established by the starters. He’s also great offensively in the starting lineup; when he’s out there with 4 players as skilled as LeBron, Mo, Delonte, and Z, all of whom are good passers and shooters, he’s free to do what he does extremely well offensively; move without the ball to get layup opportunities and convert inside.
Off the bench, Anderson’s defensive prowess would be wasted on weaker offensive units, and he’s only as good offensively as the players around him.
And if Anderson and Shaq are out there at the same time, the fact that neither of them can stretch the floor at all is a recipe for disaster offensively. Andy’s a 35% jump shooter, and with his slow, awkward release he doesn’t project to get much better as a shooter. And Shaq is Shaq. Andy will hit that jumper every now and again, and some ball movement could make things passable, but smart defenses are going to be able to dare the Cavs to beat them with an Andy jumper. Over time, that’s a losing proposition.
If Anderson doesn’t start, there isn’t another starting-quality power forward currently on the roster.
JJ Hickson has tons of potential, but is still unproven and coming off a major injury. Ben Wallace is gone. Joe Smith is gone. Darnell Jackson and Jawad Williams don’t have what it takes. The backup 4 situation looks like it’s going to get solved with a lot of small-ball, but…
You can’t start with small-ball.
Small-ball during games, with LeBron and/or Jemario Moon guarding a 4 they feel comfortable marking? Great. When you dictate the move, it works beautifully. But when you let opposing coaches game-plan to beat up Moon (who hasn’t played significant time at the 4 before) or James (who can’t pick up fouls) by ISOing big 4s against them to start off, you can have serious problems.
Z is perfectly suited to start alongside Bron and Andy.
(By the way: Z hasn’t come off the bench since the 01-02 season)
Just as Andy is one of the few power forwards who is quick enough to defend on the perimeter and rotate back defensively while being an excellent finisher inside offensively, Z is unique in that his skills are guarding the rim defensively and stretching the floor offensively. Z has soft hands and can catch and finish inside, and is a surprisingly good playmaker working out of the high post, but his real offensive strength is that he can stretch the floor at the center position and doesn’t do dumb things with the ball, which is extremely rare from a player who defends the rim.
Z is also a guy who benefits tremendously from playing with LeBron; Z has no post game whatsoever, and once he catches the ball he’s not much of an improvisor-he’s gotta play with people that know how to find him when he’s open, and people that can get him open. Like Andy, Z is a guy with a impressive but limited skill-set that’s best utilized in the current Cavalier starting lineup.
Start With Defense, Finish With Offense.
At the beginning of a game, teams are looking to establish their offensive balance-lots of movement, everyone getting involved, looking to implement their will, tempo and tone to start the game off. It’s important to start off with a solid defensive unit that goes 5 deep and doesn’t give up easy looks or mismatches. As Anderson is the Cavs’ most consistent team defender, the starting lineup is suited for him.
In crunch-time, it’s going to be the other team’s money player going pick-and-roll or ISO. You can afford a mismatch, because no coach is going to risk taking a key possession out of his best player’s hands. In crunch-time, Cleveland can go with Shaq, LeBron, and 3 shooters to stretch the floor, because Jemario isn’t going to get posted up by Michael Beasley-the ball’s going to be in Wade’s hands anyways.
Shaq will do absolute wonders for the 2nd Unit offensively.
Basic rule: you always want to have a player who commands the attention of multiple defenders on the floor. If you don’t have that, it’s hard to get anything sort of run going offensively. Common sense.
Mo Williams, for all his gifts, is not a guy who can consistently get into the paint and collapse defenses, and neither is Delonte West. They’re guys who do much better work out of catch-and-shoot situations or penetrating against a defense already in react mode-when asked to create a play themselves, most of the time you get a pull-up midrange jumper. Last year, the 2nd unit was ugly, and let defenses play everyone straight-up without ever having to go into react mode-if the jumpers weren’t falling, there was going to be an offensive lull.
Shaq can put defenses into react mode. If you try to single-cover Shaq in the post, you’re going to get beat. You’ve got to bring a second defender, and that’s when the floor can get unbalanced and Mo, Delonte, and everyone else can really go to work. He’s someone you can reliably go to to end an offensive drought, which is absolutely massive for the second unit. The gap from 0 playmakers to 1 playmaker is a lot bigger than the gap from 1 playmaker to 2.
You want as much consistency as possible in the starting lineup.
I think 65-70 games is a realistic expectation for Shaq this year, especially since the regular season will be de-emphasized somewhat. Changing the starting dynamic every couple of games can get guys out of their routines and rhythms, which can lead to flat-footed starts. Injuries will happen, but you want to keep the starting lineup a constant as much as possible.
Forget the status quo.
Admit it. A lot of the reason this sounds crazy is because you can’t imagine Shaq passing up the big intro every night. The lights off, the mic down, the PA announcer growling “Annnnd at Center…From L.S.U….Number Thirty-Three…Cleveland, WEL-COME…” The roof falls off the place. The first 5 minutes feels like a Roman Exhibition.
But who really cares? First of all, the Second Coming wouldn’t get the ovations that “From St. Vincent-St. Marys…In Akron, Ohio…” gets on a nightly basis. Second, who on this team, or any team, deserves the big ovation more than Z? Third, wouldn’t the love Shaq gets when he enters off the bench get everyone pretty pumped up?
But most importantly, isn’t this the way for Shaq to quiet the backlash that’s come his way? After years of winning the Kobe-Shaq divorce, all of a sudden Kobe’s got a parade and looks like he just might be a team player after all. Meanwhile, Shaq’s gotten bounced in the 1st round, missed the playoffs, and looked increasingly like the real egomaniac of the pair. Shaq wants to prove that he’s team-first once and for all and not The Brand of Shaq first? What better way to do it than this?
I’ve even got a nickname picked out- The Macrowave. So that’s why I think Shaq shouldn’t start. Lemme know what you guys think.
[…] Shaq’s not coming off the bench. I don’t see how Z will be all that effective against 2nd units, seing how bad he is at […]
Great post. Shaq should without a doubt play the 8-10 minutes that LeBron sits – without a doubt. Just walk up the court, dump the ball to him, and let him go to work. He will dominate 2nd unit front court defenders and open up the floor for Mo Williams. The Cavs were like -9 pts/48 minutes with LeBron on the bench this year, I think Shaq could seriously help that.
The idea of bringing Shaq off the bench sounds intriguing on paper, but that’s about it. Shaq has a huge ego, and I just can’t imagine him being willing to be anything but a starter. The Cavs were a team that thrived with excellent team chemistry last year. Creating a situation like Iverson in Detroit is a sure way to throw that in the dumpster. I disagree with the idea that the starter at the four needs to be an outside shooter. Both West and Williams shoot very well from both the three and from mid range, and can’t be… Read more »
If you play with bottom of the barrel teams ( Toronto – New Jersey ) is hard to get motivated every season.
VC will be a total different player with the Magic.
No pressure to carry the team and have to be the player to score 50% of a teams score.
No double and triple teams.
No 40 minutes of play per game.
Yep, VC will become a great producer for the Magic , Yes even better than Turk.
Shaq may be up there in age but he still is able to command double teams and Im definitly not worried about sheed he adds another weapon to Boston already veteren filled roster but sheed’s temper has always been and always will be the lead to his demise. Orlando does pose the largest threat because adding Bass Barnes and Vince thats some deadly options to add to an already stacked team But I feel that if Cleveland adds Warrick or Powe were decent enough to match any talent on any other team in the NBA with Bron leading the show… Read more »
BAD idea! Shaq will start. Shaq will command a double team, hence opening the game up for Lebron and the shooters. Lebron will also command the double/tripple team, which will open the hole for Shaq.
Big Z and Andy should come of the bench. Andy’s energy will be needed off the bench and Z’s 18 footer will spell LEBRON + SHAQ.
This is much better than Shaq Starting.
NBA PLATO “Always thinking about Basketball”
i dont think the cavs are that good, i feel that orlando and boston are deeper teams and we say that vince will not be a factor because he’s ot of gas the guy still averages 20 points and 5 assist a night why dont we say the same about shaq he is 5 years older than vince and i also think that if the celtics play wallace at the five no way shaq can guard him he does not like going outside to defend plus orlando’s line up is not going to be as conventional as everybody thinks lewis… Read more »
Shaq will be fine starting in the Rotation the adjustment he made within pheonix speaks for it self the run and gun offense from a mainly based half court style offense which he is now back at. I think Cleveland should be feared by any opposition they face, but I still believe that Cleveland should add Leon Powe or even Hakkim Warrick to the roster to add more depth instead of depending upon JJ or DJ…experience matters most. Varejo can start or either come off of the bench either way it makes no difference. The Bench will determine the success… Read more »
I certainly like the nickname, and your logic seems reasonable. I’m not sure that anyone other than LeBron could sell this to Shaq, though. Mike Brown is going to earn his money this year.
While I do think Shaq should start, this was certainly a compelling argument.
Moreover, the fact that we’re even having this debate highlights just how much pressure is on Mike Brown this year to assimilate all the pieces Ferry has brought in this summer.
Good argument, bad decision. I agree w/all who said JJ n shaq on the floor 2gether. I dont agree w/ what you said about Varejao being a dif. type of energy player than others. Da only thing dif. is he goes for charges instead of blocks. Dat doesnt make him more aware than others. Because even when he was coming off the bench he was getting in foul trouble n last year he fouled out multiple times. What cleveland needs to actually is what you said shouldnt happen with alternating lineups. Phoenix helped Shaq by letting him rest every2 or… Read more »
fire Mike Brown and get a real coach who is not afraid to make the right decision not the popular one, and then you can start talking about all of those
GO LAKERS!
I’m more worried about who plays the last five minutes and whether Shaq can stay on the floor in crucnh time with (1) Hack-A-Shaq, and (2) defending pick-and-roll. A crunchtime five of Mo, West, Parker, LBJ and Shaq? Shaq helps us more in the first 42 minutes of the game than the last six.
Of the starters from last season I would more like to see Delonte come off the bench as pg in second unit, and he and z would work great together especially with moon on the wing. Really though I am not worried about start/bench with the talent on the roster Brown could do just about anything!! (as long as they figure all out by playoff time)
well KC Shaq start or not i don’t think they well win a ring this year. Orlando, Boston, LA and Even Spurs seem better. Cavs not shabby but Shaq Ego has to fit in with Cavs because they are a 66 win regular season team and he has to listen to coach brown ringless in all. Look at what he did to the Suns got the coach fired and they aint even made the playoffs and Nash and Amare said Shaq cramp thier style. Shaq present on any team is dominant but there will be times when big Z will… Read more »
There is absolutely 0 chance to think Shaq will not start.
He is one of the GOAT. He will retire before he comes off the bench.
If he does decide to come off the bench next season he will complain about minutes. This could be his last year who knows.
Krolik –
You may be right that in the regular season he could come off the bench.
Come playoffs
HE IS NOT GOING TO COME OFF THE BENCH
And if he does the Cavs will not win a ring
I hear what you’re saying John, but until it doesn’t work, Shaq is going to be starting. But our first subs are off the bench around minute 7 anyway, and then Brown can arrange as he sees fit. I really don’t understand some of the negative press around Shaq getting added. Shaq’s a big personality, but nobody’s got a bigger ego than LeBron. And I mean that in the best way. He’ll keep things running (he’s practically a player/coach) and Shaq’s smart enough Basketball IQ wise to run with the program. Just with the talent on the roster alone, we’re… Read more »
Tacoma
I would like to argue about one statement you made during your post, Shaq vs. Howard concerning double teams. Please, don’t you remember when he flopped against Howard. When was the last time shaq has flopped in his NBA career. That should be a very strong indicater on who the superior player is. Every team has to double team Howard in the post. This mans presence will only grow larger and more effective as he ages. Shaq is old news.
I like your argument, John, but I must disagree. You start your best five players. That’s Mo, Delonte, LB, AV and Shaq. They’ll figure out how to play well together. Then each game you adjust according to the matchups. The conventional wisdom is the Mike Brown doesn’t adjust that well, but let’s face it, until now he hasn’t had much beyond the first five to work with. Against Orlando, Shaq will get major minutes. With Shaq on the floor, the Cavs won’t have to double Howard in the post, so Lewis and everyone else will be much less effective. Orlando’s… Read more »
I am extremely intrigued by what kind of impact Shaq will have on th cav’s overall game. I am a lakers fan just to let it be known. Shaq will bring intimidation but i am not sure what more than that. He is a player significantly past his prime relying on past accomplishments to define his future career. I fully understand that SHAQ still has some “shaq” in him, but as far as team chemistry goes, i am not sure an overall team upgrade is an appropriate speculation. Look at the 2004 lakers roster and the outcome of their season.… Read more »
hey you have some very good points. I like the trade because Cavs gave up nothing Sun just wanted him gone. What you said about Shaqs ego is real it should be a concern. Shaq in the past have problems with rookie coaches him and Mike is going to have problems my guess is mike brown will get fired at the end of this season.
Maybe Andy will have a better jumpshot next year? It has improved each year he has been in the league….
No, I don’t really believe that
Whether you start Andy, ‘Bron, or Moon at the 4 (depending on how good the offensive player is on the other team, lineups, etc.) Those are 4 guys who are great at diving to the rim. Shaq is a great passer and will fine cutters from the weak side, and make teams pay for double teaming from the 4. I don’t think Andy issue is nearly as big as you are making it out to be, for the 15 minutes or so that they’ll probably play together a night.
This is a very convincing piece, but at the same time (like a lot of other commenters here, who have given good reasons) I’m not ready to completely write off Shaq and Varejao playing together. I hope that the team can play around with lineup possibilities at the start of the season to find out what actually works. But you are right to point out the effectiveness of our previous starting unit, which did win 66 regular season games – it doesn’t get much better than that. And our bench certainly needed more help. It’s going to be very interesting… Read more »
The big issue isn’t “what center should start?”, it’s “does Mike Brown have enough creativity to start the right one, sub the right one, in the right situation?”. Options are plentiful for this squad so far, but MB is not exactly known for his offensive prowess or creative line-ups. Or matchup advantages. Or adjusting.
That and Mo Williams showing up in the playoffs are my two biggest concerns for this next season.
And you guys make good points about Andy working off of Shaq-it’s when Lebron drives to the lane and has two defenders who can can wait for him under the basket that really worries me. Both guys are capable of catching and finishing if there’s someone else stretching the floor, but that’s a lot of bodies in the paint if LeBron, Andy, and Shaq are all in there at the same time.
It’s not a perfect analogy. But people are losing the forest in the trees a little bit when they talk about how this team needs to make these major changes to stop Dwight Howard and Rashard Lewis.
John, I agree with all the points you make in this article, and in your comment, but I still think Andy and Shaq can work together, not for 30 minutes a game but for some time, it can work. The only two frontcourt guys we have that I don’t think would work at all being on the court at the same time would be Z and Shaq, but thats kinda stating the obvious. These are the types of things Mike Brown will use the preseason and start of the regular season to figure out though, so come playoff time whatever… Read more »
John – I think the Sun’s problems had less to do with chemistry and more to do with philosophy. Shaq was ill-suited to perform in the run-and-gun style they favored.
The Cavs, on the other hand, will still be the same defensive-minded squad, but with improved post play and improved interior D.
Me being an ORLANDO MAGIC FAN i still belive they should off made an Upgrade on the Power Forward Position I belive thats where they got killed by Orlando (Rashard Lewis) to me was the biggest Factor an lets say come playoff time who are the Cavs going to have to stop ah guy like that . An i like Andy but to me he should come off the bench if come playoff time they meet Orlando again an someway somehow come Trade time get ah Second Shooting Guard Cuase Delonte is to small …But anyways hope you guys have… Read more »
Everyone does realize that most of our games next year are going to be against teams that aren’t the Magic, right? And that we might not even see them in the playoffs? And that adjusting the lineup wouldn’t be that big of a deal if that occurs? And that when the Suns messed up their chemistry for Shaq because they believed he’d stop Duncan in the playoffs, they screwed themselves?
I would have to agree with Thomas Foreman on this one… I cant even put together what you just said in this entire blog because none of it makes sense. I will say that i am indeed a Pistons fan, however, wake the hell up! You lost in the ECF because you had no inside presence against Dwight, guess who was on that team that couldnt stop him? Andy V! I love Z too, but they both kept me and everyone else from the great Lebron vs. Kobe matchup! No way in hell should you really even think about that… Read more »
You sir have to be the dumbest writer or sports expert i have even heard of in my entire life. For the simple fact that u believe that SHAQ should come off the bench so that ANDERSON V. can start is ridiculous. I guess as a CAVS fan u enjoyed watching Dwight Howard put up 40points against them in their final game especially after the lakers showed that if he goes against alil resistance he cant score..i ask u sir to retire from writing these dumb blogs
Anderson Varejao should off the bench just like chris anderson do with the nuggets.
Great post! Very compelling argument…
I was convinced before i finished reading. Work on the nickname. I hope you get heard.
Mr. Blair would have looked nice in a Cavs uni at the 4. Instead you’re stuck with Jackson and an injured Hickson. Bet you guys absolutley loved the drafting of Eyenga.
I disagree with the notion of Shaq not starting because to think that Andy won’t still get his cutting layup opportunities because Shaq is around is the same as saying Lebron won’t be able to get to the basket because Shaq will be clogging up the paint. It’s just not true, in my opinion. If anything Andy will get more opportunities for cutting because there’s two ppl you have to worry about doubling in Lebron and now Shaq. Andy is not the type to just stand around if his man goes to double Shaq (or Lebron for that matter) and… Read more »
“Z is unique in that his skills are guarding the rim defensively and stretching the floor offensively.”
So, you had jury duty during the Eastern Conference Finals?
I’ve gotta agree with JoBu (great name, by the way!) – I don’t think Andy’s lack of outside game is as troubling as you may think. Since teams will have to decide whether to double either LeBron or Shaq (a luxury we’ve never had in the LBJ era), the passing abilities of Bron, Delonte, Mo and the Big Witness Protection will give Andy as many opportunities as ever. And who knows – maybe Andy will show more improvement on that midrange jumper. Face it – most observers didn’t think he’d improve even as much as he already has. You acknowledge… Read more »
Pretty convincing case, but I dunno. I mean, I can’t shake the feeling that Shaq, despite a desire to show everyone his humility and deference to the King, is still Shaq and really only defers to LeBron James himself. I’m pretty sure he thinks he’s a Hell of a lot better than everyone else on the roster. And I can guarantee he can’t spell or pronounce both Ilgauskas and Varejao. And you know what? He is better than the non-LeBron portion of the roster. But the difference is assuredly much smaller to us than him. To put it another, Shaq… Read more »
Let’s not assume Shaq & Andy can’t play together. There are some positives in pairing the two. Shaq struggles with the pick and roll at this point in his career, and Andy is an excellent help defender. Second, Shaq will command a double and is a good passer, and Andy is an excellent cutter. Diving to the rim is the best part of his offensive game, and playing with Shaq will give him more opportunity to do that than playing with Z. The Shaq-Varejao combo won’t look good if Andy sets up at the foul line to give Shaq room… Read more »
You know, one thing I haven’t heard from ANY of the news about Shaq and how he’ll fit in is the fact that he sat most back to backs last season and that’s one of the bigger reasons they were able to keep him healthy and playing at a high level again. The Cavs won’t change that if they’re smart BUT we are already thin on the frontline and while I don’t like DJ as the fourth big, I’m comfortable with it given the talent and firepower we have. I’m flat out scared of those nights where ‘Macrowave’ sits and… Read more »
Shaq will start, so you’ll just have to get used to it. If both Shaq and Andy are on the court for the first 5 minutes of each half, than I’m fine with that. I think your central point of Shaq needs to be on the court whenever LeBron is off the court is perfectly true. I would go even further and say that Mo/Shaq is a necessity whenever LeBron is off the court. In regards to spacing problems, wasn’t the whole point of acquiring Shaq to provide an inside presence? That the Cavs were too perimeter oriented on offense?… Read more »
I hadn’t considered a JJ/Shaq starting frontcourt, I think that’d work out well if JJ can step up… especially on the defensive end. He’s go the length and athleticism to do the hard shows on pick and rolls, lets just hope his defensive IQ jumps up enough to not make so many mistakes.
Unfortunately I think his injury will result in him not getting good enough to remotely be in the starting line up until very late in the season. He’s just missing way too much of the offseason.
Everyone always says that having too much talent is never a bad thing…well it is if you don’t know how to balance the talent. It’s going to be very interesting to see if Brown does what is best for the team, or best for his job safety. (It’s so completely pathetic that Brown is on the hot seat – the things that he has done for this team could not have been done by any other coach) We definitely have a lot of different options and looks we can throw on the floor, and while locking up homecourt advantage again… Read more »
I have to disagree with you on this post. The main reason is because I don’t believe that Andy is the type of core player that you give him credit for. Yes, I do think that he contributes well on D, but he’s not the great stoppoer it seems like you want to make him out to be, nor are his meager offensive attributes that great either (no you didn’t claim he’s great on O, but what I’m saying is he’s not even as good on O as you say he is). With that said, our starting five should be:… Read more »
Solid post, but one problem. How can shaq’s nickname not have “Shaq” in it? This is very easily fixed by changing it to “The Shaqrowave.” It reads kind of awkwardly, but hey, don’t fix what ain’t broke, right? (or something like that) That being said, you make a lot of good points here. Our starting 5 last year was what carried us, what allowed us to steamroll all but 3 or 4 teams in the league. Z, Andy and Lebron clearly complimented each other well. But it seems like our starting frontcourt this year will be andy and Shaq, and… Read more »