From Distance: Addition by Subtraction
2017-11-29Four point play…
1. The Cavaliers have now won five games in a row without the services of Derrick Rose, Iman Shumpert, and Tristan Thompson. Okay, you’re right. Shumpert played seven minutes against the Sixers. It was enough burn to give him an opportunity to orchestrate a wonderful zero pass, deep two-point attempt which he clanked. Go Team.
Overall, the team has reeled off nine straight, but the true domination started when all of the Cavs’ non-shooting rotation players hit the bench. Since then, Tyronn Lue has been unable to play the guys who short-circuit team defense and offense on a regular basis.
What Ben? You think Tristan Thompson wrecks team defense as well?
Yes and no. The “no” part is obvious. Tristan does have some defensive prowess as a decent lateral movement big man. When he is engaged on a switch, TT has the quickness to hang with most wing players for a few dribbles. Interestingly, the “yes” of the question stems from that same ability. When Tristan is on the floor, the Cavs defense asks him to switch everything almost as a rule. While Tristan can flash that defensive ability at times, it is foolhardy to ask him to do that every possession.
He might be good at guarding the perimeter for a bigman, but he isn’t good at guarding it for a player in general. Since Tristan has been out, the guys filling in have either been wings who are accustomed to shadowing quicker guys on a possession to possession basis, or Channing Frye.
When Frye or Kevin Love are involved as Pick and Roll defenders, the Cavs employ a soft trap and recover scheme. As mentioned in David’s recap of the Heat game, the Cavs D will often briefly trap the ball-handler while the weakside defense crashes down on the roll man. That mini-trap prevents the ball-handler from easily firing the cross-court pass to the now open weakside shooter.
It is an exercise in timing. Both crash/chuck defender and trapping bigman need to coordinate how long they stay in the dangerous position or open shots can be had everywhere.
The trap and recover style defense could be employed with Tristan as well, but his pride as a switch defender would have to take a backseat to strategy.
Offensively, though Tristan has shown flashes of play-making ability on the short roll, he simply isn’t dangerous enough as a screener. He has no n’ Pop ability and his Roll is limited. He can catch a lob, but only if it is in a perfect situation. He isn’t like a Rudy Gobert or DeAndre Jordan type that can grab anything near the box for the finish. To be fair, Tristan has gotten much better over the years. The difference is that the two guys above turn average guards into good lob throwers. Tristan needs an exceptionally talented lob artist to do damage.
As an off-ball screener, the defense can trap whichever shooter he is trying to free without too much fear of Thompson repercussion. The fact that Tristan can’t shoot kills a lot of Floppy action.
When the defensive big man has to worry about the lob or a screen and pop, they are in trouble. The guy flying around the pick is going to find an open space unless the defense sells out on stopping the shooter. With Tristan Thompson in there, the defense can do just that. Those quick off-ball screen traps make it harder for Kyle Korver and J.R. Smith to get going from deep.
2. When Kevin Love or Channing Frye are the elbow screen men, the defense is at a complete loss. Get too high as the defender, and the back-cut is wide open. Remember that the big man can’t stray too far from the screener if the screener can shoot. If the defensive man is in a chase and lock position, the shooter is going to be able to turn the corner into open space. The following is more Loop than Floppy, but Smith’s dunk against the Heat is illustrative of what I’m talking about.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAKv1jvE5pg
With LeBron James holding the ball on the right side of the floor, Kevin Love and Kyle Korver set a staggered screen for the looping J.R. Smith on the left side. His defender, Goran Dragic is in a trail technique as J.R. flies by what end up being tiny brush screens.
Dragic swerves a bit assuming J.R. is going to three-point land, but otherwise is doing about all he can in that situation. It’s the power that Love and Korver have over their defenders that is the relevant aspect. Neither defender pays the slightest attention to J.R’s action. Both Winslow and Ellington are afraid to even glance away from their guys for fear of being toasted from deep. Some subtle dive and clear movement from Jeff Green further frees up the lane for the monster jam.
This doesn’t happen if Tristan is setting that screen. The defense can happily blitz the shooter and/or Winslow can fully sag into the paint. Shooting gravity makes a screen-setter a point maker.
3. Iman Shumpert and Derrick Rose wreck team play on both ends in more overt ways. Offensively, neither guy is a threat from deep. Rose has always been a horrific shooter from beyond the arc. Shumpert is better, but still rightfully ignored by the defense as a spot-up shooter.
They both love possessions that start with them dribbling the ball by themselves and end with them firing up a jumper. At least Rose will attempt to get into the paint. Shump is plenty content to hoist from 20 for no good reason.
Defensively is where these guys really kill the team. Shumpert is fine on an island against an average to bigger guard. He can use his quick hands and lateral quickness to do some adequate work. As an off-ball defender, I’ve seen two-year-olds with longer attention spans. The coaching staff basically tells Shump to hound his guy the whole time now knowing that he rarely can be trusted to consistently crash down on the roll man or help the helper.
When he is glued to a guy, it looks like he is a defensive stopper. He’s not. He just doesn’t have the focus to do anything else. He doesn’t have the angle awareness or play recognition to beat guys to spots. He is always guarding a guy or ball watching. Great defense is often about leaning into a passing lane just enough to prevent the pass from even being thrown. That play recognition is crucial. It is also how LeBron has been getting a ton of steals lately. Sadly, Shump doesn’t have it.
You can basically apply everything I said about Iman Shumpert to Derrick Rose. Well, excepting any of the positive things. Rose is, and has always been, horrendous on defense. He has very limited lateral quickness these days and has no sense of play development. Random 20 point nights against Washington aside, he isn’t a positive NBA player anymore.
4. Addition by subtraction, folks. Without those players, Tyronn Lue has been forced into only playing guys who can shoot the rock. Frye and Love have been doing great work as the lone bigman in their lineups. They are battling hard against the monsters of the NBA and getting the upper hand.
Their consistent boxing out of opposing centers has led to big rebounding nights for LeBron. They are punishing any team that thinks they can hide a smaller guy on them on killer mouse-in-the-house post action. They are providing consistent positional play at the rim and in PnR defense so the defense can function as a unit. And yes, more than anything, their shooting range has freed up the lane for drives both in flat possessions and in screen action. This isn’t too complicated. Play shooters. Play with intelligence. Win a bunch of games.
Quickies:
Blake Griffin’s MCL strain is a bummer for a Clippers squad that finally started to win again. With Griffin out for at least two weeks months and Pat Beverley done for the year, a fun Clippers start to the season seems like years ago. It will be very interesting to see how the next two weeks play out. The Clips could be in sell mode very soon.
Wow. I’m as shocked as anyone as it pertains to the firing of David Fizdale. I’ve been impressed with him during his time as the Grizzlies’ head coach. Clearly, Marc Gasol didn’t agree. Nevertheless, I would say Gasol is more likely to be traded now than before. The only way this move makes sense from the organization’s point of view is that they want to make sure that they don’t have a “disgruntled” Gasol lowering his trade value. Either way, it is hard to be a head coach in the NBA.
Speaking of which, shout out to Quin Snyder of the Utah Jazz. The team plays incredible team ball on both sides. If they can ever get healthy enough to barge into the playoffs, they are going to be a tough out. They do so many smart things on a play to play basis.
Like the Cavs fantastic bench unit. Frye, Green, Korver, and Wade have made me excited for the start of every second quarter. I’m still hoping that Cedi Osman can work his way into regular minutes with that mind meld, but I have to admit that tossing Smith in there has been pretty darn successful. Veteran smarts. Shooting everywhere. It’s nice to enjoy watching Cavalier basketball again.
good update Jason–keep up the good work– we all appreciate —and agree playing hard is difficult to sustain for an entire season –especially if losing sets in —-players start to ask themselves ‘ why in the hell am I busting my butt if we are just going to lose “
Yeah. Maybe my hopes are driving my analysis. Dec/Jan seem like their toughest months, schedule wise. Hopefully they take a pretty good pounding.
FWIW on the Nets. No, they aren’t worst in the league terrible (Bulls, Hawks, Mavs, Kings). They play hard. They are much better than I thought without Russell & Lin. Won last night absent RHJ & Crabbe as well. And they have two Hawks games up next. Still, I am not in panic mode yet. The thing about playing hard is that it is tough to maintain if you start losing. Let’s take a look at the sked for them past the two with ATL: OKC, at Miami, Wiz, NY, at Tor, Indy, Sac, Wiz, at Indy, at Spurs, at… Read more »
Not optimistic Lue gets this right. Though keeping Love injury free and reducing wear & tear on he and Frye should be TTs priciple role now. Also help on the glass (box out better) and don’t try to be a stopper vs guards on an island.
t.t. to possibly return next week—–win streak could be at 12—will be interesting how ty uses his players / rotations
think bagley goes # 1 just because of his size and raw athleticism——but he won’t be the rookie of the year/– needs time for his skills to catch up
Probably not. However, based off his rebounding and ability to finish on the pick and roll, he could be an impact player. Defensively he has a ways to go though, as all rookies do. He certainly doesn’t have the impact defensively that Anthony Davis had at Kentucky. However, he would be a better finisher than TT or any other big we have immediately. Again though, the chances of the cavs landing him with a pick whose lottery odds are outside the top 4 are pretty slim just based off the amount of lottery balls.
As for bagley being raw. Another raw guy? Aaron Gordon. Looks like a superstar now. I’d have to watch bagley to see how his motor runs. Seems like he’s got some Shawn kemp in him for good and ill
Gordon was unbelievably hot last night with his shot… OKC had no answer for him…
Drafted Aaron Gordon last year for Fantasy. He did nothing. I knew I should have drafted him this year…
I will say this for Bagley, even being the skeptic I am. He is putting up numbers despite my observations about his post game/jump shot. So if he develops some skills quickly, he really does project to be an Anthony Davis level offensive player. At this point without seeing Porter for more than two minutes of college ball and given that Bagley is producing a ton despite his current limitations, he should probably go number one. I wanted to see him against some power conference teams and good teams. He is still putting up big numbers. That bodes well and… Read more »
I do not think it is Bagley v Porter for #1. No way Porter is in the discussion with zero games played. Or one. (Though Kyrie only had 11).
Doncic is leading the Spanish league in scoring after winning the Euro’s as the #2 guy behind Dragic. At 18/19. He is off the charts in terms of skill, IQ, production, & winning.
Arizona is struggling early, but Ayton has a lot of Embiid in him. Big. Long. Quick. Can shoot. Move his feet.
Those are your top 3.
Cavs will win lottery if they keep the pick.
I like your optimism, though at some point the cavs crazy luck in the lottery has to run out. Hopefully not this year.
Sure. As I said now Porter isn’t in the conversation. He might have been had he played this year. Ayrton is even more raw than Bagley based off what I have seen and has nowhere near the fluidity or skill Embiid had as a freshman. If Bagley isn’t number one, definitely should be Doncic.
I haven’t watched Gordon play this year, as he was out when the Cavs played the Magic. Do you think his recent success is sustainable?
Elon Musk to Kyrie… checkmate
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/935572279693516800
Probably because there are no morons residing on Mars…
Just throwing this out there… Was listening to NBA radio today talk about how badly things are going in OKC right now. Given that Thunder could be left with Russ and not much else this summer if PG walks and Melo opts out (yes he’s got a player option for $30M and nobody probably gives him that, but he could get less over more seasons from another contender), does Presti consider moving PG by the deadline? If so, worth giving up the Nets pick (and probably either TT or Shump + Zizic & Osman) for a half season/playoff run with… Read more »
I absolutely do it. And maybe PG signs on long term?
I love the look of that starting line-up and bench. My only concern would be trading TT given Love’s injury history.
Stop messing with my heart EG!
Although can PG body up Durant, knock down 3s and operate off the ball? If so we’re maybe even better than GS.
If PG needs the ball in his hands though…not sure it’s an improvement if he takes touches away from LB, Kev, and IT
Now that I think about it… in that version, Crowder joins the Dinobots off the bench…
i’m not a huge PG fan. If he’s working out this poorly in OKC, what makes you think he’d not also disappear into the background on the cavs?
Because Russ and Melo are selfish alpha dogs… LeBron is maybe the least selfish alpha dog with the ball and PG would have a much better supporting cast to shine here…
i don’t think we need another all star. we need rebounding. We already have two guys on the team who should be rebounding that currently are not: TT and Jae Crowder. If Crowder picks up the boards and his stroke from three improves (aka he basically only shoots from the corner like in boston), we become and unstoppable force of offensive madness. Warriors or not, we have the pieces to win a title right now because we’re not a fast break only team like Houston and we still are winning games by 10-15 points a night.
As LBJ and Kyrie showed in 2016, you eventually are going to need guys who can win ISO battles to beat the Dubs in the Finals… PG is one of those guys where TT and Crowder are not… IT should help, but most likely will be a liability on defense in that series…
How about Marc Gasol in place of PG ? Marc Gasol may be more available and Cavs pick instead of Nets pick might be enough so long as you also add future picks.
Might as well trade Love for Gasol… similar games with a defensive upgrade…
Spacing. Love really does provide that other shooter in the starting lineup. Gasol isn’t love when it comes to that.
And… Gasol is perpetually injured…
realistically, what does PG’s next contract look like? I don’t think he’s a max player but he sure as hell does…would we even be able to sign him?
Would depend on who they send back to OKC, and would probably mean not being able to sign IT…
can we sign IT as a bench coach and head cheerleader? Cuz dude is killin it
also if we get PG we have to send TT to make the salaries work, don’t we? PG makes something near 20mil this year
Im not sure that will be helpful…think a rim protector and rebounder will be more sufficient…remember last years finals Curry was grabbing 10 boards/game….not sure if a Dedmond or DeAndre Jordan would be better.
Do you think the Warriors will be playing anyone other than Draymond at center for anything more than 10 mins a game in the Finals? A rim protector/rebounder like Dedmond or DeAndre will not help you switch and guard guys on the perimeter…
I don’t understand this line of thinking… the league has gone to a place where even the elite big men coming up are shooting threes (Embiid, Porzingis, Davis)… Why would you want a guy who slows things down and becomes unplayable in the Finals?
unless TT really steps up unlike last years finals the Cavs will get eaten alive by the Warriors boards, so either we count on team hustling or get a big man to pound the glass….Frye isn’t helping in this matchup….Warriors used Zaza and JVale for good amount of time in last years Finals and made huge impacts due to hustle and just doing simple jobs, thats what killed the Cavs last year.
No… them having KD with nobody other than LBJ to really counter him killed the Cavs last year…
Would be interesting – I know Windy is bullish on the idea, although he was talking about moving Love…
Several players and coaches have pointed to conditioning being the culprit for poor performance early in the season. Not sure it can be assigned to individuals but the team as a whole. Needed time to get their lungs in order.
It was a truncated training camp & pre-season this year, so plausible…
don’t forget Lebron missed nearly all of preseason so he basically got acclimated with everyone beginning of regular season and that portion involved moving parts/injuries, etc….team is only going to get better from here
kevin durant fits in perfectly on the warriors. doesn’t like physical defense but loves to hack and not get called. he may as well be throwing his mouthpiece around
His mephistopheles goateed sharp chin is his mouthpiece…
also, the nets will finish at least 8th worst or better. they play really hard and there are too many teams getting ready to hit the tank button, and the nets have zero incentive to tank. trade that pick as soon as a good deal comes up
Do not panic just yet. They edged the Mavs and do play hard, but so do Atl and Dallas. And have the Hawks twice next. But do we think Dinwiddie & Harris keep this up? Yes, the Grizz will struggle without Conley for 2/3 more weeks. And the Clips without Griffin (and 3 other starters), but those teams are not full tank. I think they reel the Nets back in once the stars return. Neither is LAL, whose pick could head to Bos (2-5) or Philly. Bulls (missing Lavine & Mirotic), Hawks, Kings, & Mavs are your full tankers. Along… Read more »
lakers are being allowed to play physical defense and it’s making an impact, the warriors are struggling. 4th quarter will be a different story probably and the warriors will shoot like 20 free throws.
Damn, Nets beat the Mavs. Got two with the Hawks, could win 3 in a row.
How does Bagley look.
I haven’t seen him play yet, but reports are that he looks like a man amongst boys, but raw.
Real raw. He has zero post moves except a mediocre drop step and a really really shaky jump hook. His jump shot has a long long way to go too. However, his athleticism carries him and may be enough to carry him for awhile at the next level. He won’t be great with out his skill developing. But his floor is probably decent starting pf just based on his athleticism.
Ben are you some sort of wizard?
Dear God the fourth quarter of this Sixers wizards game was awful. 64 free throws in fourth quarter. 100+ in game.
If you don’t like that, you don’t like Wizards’ basketball…
I see Lonzo Ball’s first signature sneaker is $495. I don’t buy basketball sneakers, and I think that entire culture is bizarre, but are people really going to buy these?
Probably not if he keeps shooting 30% from the field.
BitCoin hit $9K on Monday, $10K then %11K today. Maybe $13k tomorrow?
A BitCoin is worth $0.
A Lonzo Ball sneaker is worth $20 or so, because at least you can wear them. Which will crash first?
The encryption is probably worth a lot to some people and certain vendors. Why they need that encryption is an interesting question.
oooops old nomad showing up again—sorry about the caps
Insert favorite joke about old dogs and new tricks!
GOOD MAGIC WON—-NETS UP BY 1 AT HALF OVER THE MAVS—NOEL DOESN’T EVEN SEE THE FLOOR–THINK HE COULD BE GOTTEN RATHER CHEAP—SHUMP / ROSE / OUR DRAFT PICK OR “ZZ”
TT+Shump+Cavs pick for Gasol. Sure more need to be added, may be 2019 pick.
Boogie?
Rather have Dedmon for TT than either of them.
I really don’t see Gasol moving the needle for this team. Would rather have Dedmon or DJ if he can be acquired for TT+Shump.
For that deal, Gasol would be an absolute steal. I don’t see it happening because of the Fizdale/Bron connection. Still, Gasol is a much better player than DJ and obviously better than Dedmon. Of course Dedmon wouldn’t command the same haul so it is a different conversation. Gasol does everything Frye does only way better. He is a defensive savant and can score and pass as well as Love when he goes that direction. He’s been a legit superstar. He’s been a reason why the Warriors have always struggled against the Grizzlies. He’s not a lumbering bigman. You could play… Read more »
That would be great, but I don’t see gasol coming here without the cavs including the Brooklyn pick.
I think Calderon deserves some love for his hounding defense. Hes been solid and aggressive out there, much better than advertised
I agree. hard to believe it is sustainable just because he’s never been a good defensive player but he has been effective and the effort is certainly there.
Agree with TOJ and TP. Calderon seems to know how to fit into minor role in the overall scheme. Good for him.
Calderon has half the athleticism of Shumpert, but at least twice the smarts. Love how is hounding the ball on the inbounds like Delly did. A very pleasant surprise that he hasn’t hurt us on the defensive end.
Great article. It’s nice when you’ve got a bunch of 6′ 6″-plus guys who can score and switch and defend. Couldn’t understand why Channing Frye was not getting more minutes earlier this season. Not only can he shoot the 3, he’s showing us a post-up game and defending opposing bigs. He’s smart and well-spoken, too. Trade TT — he’s overrated as a rebounder, not a great rim protector, can’t score, and can’t stretch the defense.
https://twitter.com/uninterrupted/status/935952030320943104
He should have had “Old School” not “Pet Detective” on in the background.
Good to see that LeBron is into an all time great movie! “PD2: The call of the wild” is even better.
never surprised ben is *****ing on derrick rose haha….team is on a roll cause Wade turned into a leader off the bench and has made everyone around him better. name me another super star who realizes their best days are behind them and accepted a bench role like this. what a gift. winning streak really has much ado about who plays or not. while shump sucks, Lue will keep him for defensive purposes. TT won’t go anywhere either as Lebron will vouch for him. its been enjoyable to watch, but tough to exactly pinpoint a player being responsible for the… Read more »
Excellent points.
I don’t know that any one player was responsible for early season problems. Could just be that people had not figured out what worked yet, and gotten used to what each other do. For example, getting used to being on the floor with LeBron would take some getting used to.
I know two players who were responsible for much of our terrible play: Rose and Shumpert
Hard to dispute that. Rose’s assist % was freaking inexcusable, especially when he was on the floor with Lebron a lot. Just a disaster.
It can be a combination of both things. Yes the team is gelling, as they become more familiar, and yes the ball isn’t stopping by the ball stoppers.
The other thing I wanted to mention is that Tristan has never seemed like a valuable piece in the regular season and has almost uniformly been a difference maker in at least one playoff series a year over the last 3. There is a huge difference between playoff basketball and regular season basketball that goes beyond the mean talent of the teams and the intensity. In the playoffs each team has plenty of time to prepare for its opponent and over the course of a 7 game series there are rarely total breakdowns due to being unprepared. This is partly… Read more »
Yes. Also, will TT continue to dominate Al Horford? If so, you want him on your team.
Great piece, Ben. I pretty much agree with everything so I’ll just touch on the things you’ve mentioned that I’d like to add too. Like you and David said, the Cavs are switching more on the perimeter. Obviously their opponent 3PFG% has done a drastic 180. If you look at the last 13 games, the Cavs are giving up 10.4 3s a game on 30.8 attempts for a 33.7%. That’s a healthy number of attempts for teams but that is the 7th best Opp% during that timespan. Contrast that with the first 8 games of the season: 14.0 3s on… Read more »
Smarter team defenders make smarter switches. Green will still totally zone out at times and of course, LeBron takes some help responsibilities off, but the difference between quick switches and “uh, where am I again?” switches make a huge difference. To be sure, some of the uptick is just effort, but a lot of it is concentration. Tristan could be useful again in the right situation. If Thomas comes back at full strength, maybe he is the correct partner for TT PnR game. But the fact that TT isn’t a great rim protector, can’t punish smaller players in the post,… Read more »
“I don’t want a single player in the rotation who can’t nail a three with regularity. When that is the case, LeBron is unstoppable.” <- Yeah.
It is known.
So then Marc gasol?
I’m concerned that Lue isn’t going to be able to do the best thing for the team. He’s got a lot of problem players that are going to be coming back from injury and I don’t trust him to not screw it up. IT is impossible to hide on defense, smarts or no smarts. With the elite scoring options on this team, his value is lessened. He can help give LBJ or Love a scoring load breather. That’s about it. He’s going to mess up the defense switchability worse than Kyrie ever did and won’t give you as much back… Read more »
A smart coach would be playing Osman as many minutes as he can find to give him experience and find his fit.
Cedi looks pretty bad, probably doesn’t have the best practices either.
this is such a great name
And it works two ways.
I don’t think Cedi has looked bad at all. He is a plus ball-handler in PnR ball, but on this squad, he is never allowed to do that. He runs hard in transition, has made some nice buckets and moves well. He’s also been asked to guard the opposing team’s lead guard in almost every minute that he has played. While Cedi is an active, heady defender, the dude is much better against wings and can even guard the four. The fact that he is hanging in at all against the ones he’s gone against has been impressive. He acts… Read more »
Joey “Mr. Dark Cloud” B:
The Cavs have just won nine straight games. Thanks for reminding us the the coach is “insanely stupid”. A lot of people might not have noticed.
I give JoeyB props for remaining consistent in his takes… winning streaks have a way of covering up flaws… just as slow starts have a way of magnifying them…
First, I am not a dark cloud. I am a dark storm raining the blood of my enemies. Second, I didn’t call Lue “insanely stupid.” He is not. I said that playing Iman Shumpert over Jose Calderon at point guard is insanely stupid, which I stand by and which, not for nothing, has been proven out to be an accurate take based on actual play on the court. Smart people can do insanely stupid thing, example: me having another kid. Third, the Tribe won 22 straight games. That did not mean there were not issues bubbling under the surface, including… Read more »
Also… I believe Blake Griffin is out for two months… not weeks…
Good stuff Ben! Count me in as part of the “retire Rose” contingent. Also, my disdain for Shump’s game has been well documented, and I sincerely hope the Cavs can find a way to move him… However, despite your well explained reasoning for why TT is a liability, I do still think he can thrive in certain lineups. There is no question the Cavs miss his board work, as they’ve been mostly crushed recently on the glass (one of the few blemishes during the win streak). It’s very possible that losing first Delly and now Kyrie (given their buddy ball… Read more »
I listened to the RoadTrippin’ podcast with Channing and Shump, and I’m now even less of a fan of Shump. It’s clear he just doesn’t care that much about basketball. I’m hoping Lue has enough evidence to at least bench these two clowns (Rose, Shump) making them glorified garbage time players.
I’d sell Ainge on the idea that Shump is Kyrie’s bud…They could slot Shump in there right beside Kyrie in the starting lineup…
They need to hoist him on Ainge.
Agree with Jason below….I’m afraid if everyone comes back healthy that the rotations will be a mess again. They are playing very well right now – imagine if Lue was shoehorning minutes for Rose and Shump (not to mention finding a good lineup for TT)…I think it could go back to trash quickly.
I’m on board bigtime with Rose not playing…at least Shump can at times not do much when he’s with the starters, Rose is always going to ‘do something’. And that something isn’t passing…it’s bad twos, or out of control drives. Mercy.
As far as I’m concerned, the only person I want back is IT. I’d be trading TT and Rose for best offers. As impersonal as that is.
One quickie thought on trades. The only real pieces I would part with are TT, Shump, Rose, Zizic, or our #1. Everything else is off limits. Brooklyn pick included. Why? There are 3 extremely high end guys in this draft class (Doncic, Bagley, Ayton) and two just a smidge behind (Porter, Bamba). Anything in the top 5 is good. Nets are 5th at the moment. That would give us a 29.2% shot at a top 3 pick and a 55.3% shot at one of the top 5 guys. Even 6th gives you a 21.5% shot at top 3. 4th gives… Read more »
the Cavs won the lottery 3 out of 4 years and couldn’t even get in the playoffs during the Eastern Conferences nadir after adding veterans like Luol Deng. It’s what, year 6 since the 2011 draft and Kyrie finally looks capable of not completely sabotaging a defense? Year 5 and Waiters Island is being used not in jest? What is Anthony Davis doing? If LeBron leaves because the Cavs were more worried about hedging their bets and hanging on to the pick when there was an opportunity to knock of the Warriors this season that will be the dumbest decision… Read more »
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/21606895/david-robinson-compares-marvin-bagley-iii-tim-duncan
then all we’d need is a 32-year-old David Robinson dropping 22 and 12 while leading the league in defensive rating.
Well, it would be a start anyway…
Great comment. I completely agree. It’s win now with LeBron… worry later.
Yes. IMO LeBron has two more seasons of being a top five guy in this league. Do anything possible to win now. Worry about later once it comes.
Win now with LeBron, and also win afterward with LeBron. What is the problem? This blog has some of the worst cases of overthinking anywhere.
Isn’t that what you’re supposed to do on a blog, Raoul? I mean, if you can’t vent your extreme sports takes here, then where can you? I’m getting awfully sick of people criticizing what should or shouldn’t be said on these digital pages… Voicing opinions is what should lead to spirited discourse… We don’t all have to agree to agree…
if that is truly the case then Cavs wouldn’t have that Brooklyn pick right now, they would have traded it for some stud already. Its no guarantee what Lebron will do, and Cavs were nearly left to dry when he left the first time. The messed up further by hiring horrific coaches. Think a lottery pick in top 3 plus Lebron next year (if he stays) would be awesome and especially if its a 3/4 guy that can help Lebron rest even more and prolong his career.
If they had won the Davis year, he would have been unstoppable with LeBron. There are plenty of guys who were great their first year. How about LeBron and DWade in the same year? Do you think today’s LeBron and DWade would be happy to play with a rookie version of LeBron or DWade added to the team?
Yes and there have been plenty of not top 5 picks that have been great their first year. I was at Game 6 in 2007 – aka the BOOBIE GIBSON game. That was his rookie year. I’m not arguing that a rookie can’t be an impact player, I’m saying if you have the ability to net an impact player for the stretch run this season versus waiting to add an impact player in the offseason because you are thinking “next year” or worse “beyond LeBron” then you aren’t thinking straight. Does that make sense? We can’t draft anyone in February… Read more »
What player makes them favorites or equal enough to have a realistically good enough shot at the warriors though? I mean the warriors are coasting now. They still have an insane point differential. That team is still in an another universe with their talent and continuity. Houston is fools gold. No one in the west is knocking them off or challenging them seriously barring major injury.
I think the Cavs were 1 solid rotation player able to deal with a GS wing away from having a punchers chance last year. And right now the bench is much improved from last season.
Maybe. I think another year of continuity will likely make gs stronger than last year. IT probably won’t fair as well as Irving has against the length of gs at times.
So I don’t see our overall roster as necessarily better. It might be close to equal with the bench being better. However, I think despite us having a chance in a few games and winning one, we weren’t very close last year. If Crowder is able to hit threes at the rate he did last year, we are closer. So far that hasn’t happened.
The irony will never be lost on me that by WINNING the coin flip with The Pelicans we actually lost out on the Anthony Davis sweepstakes. That’s such a Cleveland thing that no one really talks about.
Some interesting info: A no.1 pick has an 80% chance of being an all-star, no.2 = 35%, no.3=50% and then it’s about 30% all the way down to number 10.
If you can get PG who is an all-start with a pick that has a 30% chance of being an all-star I think you have to do it. But then again good rookies really help you to fix your cap problems for 5 years so allow you to fit other good players.
Just another clap on the defensive analysis part of that piece. Spot on. It is almost as if we have to adjust our scheme to cover up Shump’s & TT’s issues with switching, rotations, & recovering.
I have a quote from Lue in my head from a year or two ago when asked about why we don’t run mor complicated stuff on D. His response was that some of our guys weren’t that smart. I thought he was joking. Maybe not.
ben very good analysis —–yes believe the cavs are “holding ” off on a trade — ( when is the official date to start trading ) —to see how all the pieces fit ( including rose )——only thing is if the clippers / other teams – (mavs –bulls etc . ) are in a hurry to trade from day 1 —cavs might move sooner ( on a trade ) —-would say t.t./ rose / shump / OUR DRAFT PICK —are going to be the primary “baits ‘ to be used ———do not want to jinx us —-primary fear is with… Read more »
The 15th. I don’t expect much movement to be honest. Now that the Cavs seem to have a winning formula, my guess is the FO won’t want to rock the boat more than bringing back the guys who are injured.
Great stuff!
Great analysis. It’s actually what I’ve been working through in my mind. “How have the Cavs defended BETTER with two of their ‘best’ three defenders out of the game?” You’ve answered that question pretty much to a T. Or Double T if you catch my drift. It is indeed good to start enjoying the games again. Was a rough start.
Really do think Lue will give Rose another shot if he comes back…..
I’m hoping small-ball is here to stay for the Cavs as it’s the best chance they have to matchup with contenders in my opinion. However, that being said, Tristan, Love, and Frye might have some trouble splitting 48 minutes or maybe up to 60 (two bigs on the floor for 12) when the team is healthy.
Great write up. I am afraid Lue will bungle things when TT & Shump are healthy and Rose returns. First, let us add Calderon to list of guys who show that you can be a good team defender without great atleticism. He gives good effort & shows good anticipation & recognition of what the other team us trying to do. Plus, on offense, he can shoot. Regarding our non-shooters, I think they should be challengers for the 10th man spot with Calderon & Osman. JR played 42 minutes in a b2b game we led by 34. That should not happen.… Read more »