Podcap: Milwaukee 108, Cleveland 92 (or, Bucked)
2018-12-11As good as the Cavs looked against a semi-disinterested Wizards team just a couple days ago, they looked equally overmatched tonight against a Bucks team that was missing the Alphabet. The hot shooting that derived from open looks against Washington turned into ice cold bricks in the face of contested efforts against Milwaukee. If your name wasn’t Tristan Thompson, you had a miserable night in the starting lineup. Without Canadian Dynamite (who went down early in the third with a foot sprain), the rest of the starters shot just 10-46.
The Bucks went wild… and didn’t stop until the game was basically over. While the Cavs seemed to pass the buck more often than not defensively. To cover all of the bucking around, Nate and EG trotted into the booth for a recapping this game and a few of the others leading up to it. We spent some time discussing the rookie ups and downs of the Young Bull, the somewhat disappointing sophomore campaign for Cedi Osman, hit on the return of the Thunder from Down Under, and mused about other goings on in the NBA universe. We did it all while occasionally tuning into the final throwdown between LeBron and DWade out in Los Angeles, and were rewarded when we got to see Kelly Olynyk get bucked in the jewels… good times indeed.
As always, check us out below, on Soundcloud, Apple Podcasts or Google Play.
https://soundcloud.com/ctb-5/episode-189-bucked
In looking at desperation JR trade partners, Rockets beat Portland tonight. Moved Gordon into the starting lineup for Ennis, who promptly pulled a hammy. Rockets sit 14th out west, 2.5 behind Portland for 8th. Tricky bit if schedule coming: LAL, at Mem, Utah, Wash, at Miami, SA, OKC, Bos, at NO, Mem, at GSW, at Port, Den, Mil. A lot of home games, but no gimmies (maybe Wash on a bad night) until the Cavs on 1/11 after Milwuakee. If they fare poorly over this stretch & are 3-7 in their last 10) they they could be 6-7 games out… Read more »
Question is why would they trade for JR? They think he is the solution to their defensive issues or to cut a little cap for tax relief next summer? Do the cavs take Knight straight up for whatever reason? Or if not, are the rockets really desperate enough to trade a first for JR and dumping knight rather than look for a better player?
What if a guy like Beal becomes available? Rockets have a first.
Here is a desperate trade the rockets might make if they are truly all in with Harden, Paul, Capela.
Their first round next year unprotected, and their 2020 or 2021 with 1-5 protection and this trade:
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ydcxhr9d
Washington gets two first rounders for Beal plus knight expiring. Then they trade Wall for some desperate team for a first rounder. Houston gets the fourth piece of their core locked in.
Interesting article on Trae Young. Apparently historically bad advanced stats this year. Caveat being the attention he draws from defenses on that Hawks team. Doesn’t really address his d though in the optimistic part. Haven’t watched them other than the cavs games. No idea whether his awful tanking three % is shot selection, bad shooting, or defenses simply nose guarding him out there, or a combo of all three.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2810163-trae-young-making-history-for-the-wrong-reasons-but-that-shouldnt-scare-hawks?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_campaign=editorial&utm_medium=referral
Nice find… from what I’ve seen from him, his shot selection is awful and defenses are definitely guarding him once he crosses half court. He’ll make shots once he cuts out the stupid off-rhythm shots…. but he’s kind of stuck since he’s the primary offensive option on their horrible team.
I also agree that his passing is top notch, and the fact that he’s finishing around the rim bodes really well since he sucked at it during most of summer league.
I wonder how well he would do on the cavs. Do the cavs have that many more offensive option now that Collins is back? In other words is Young as bad currently as he seems or is Atlanta that bad as far as other offensive options?
That ATL roster is an abomination… Collins is their only other legitimate player. Spellman and Huerter will be nice role players in 3-5 years.
I said that ATL’s roster was worse than the Cavs at the beginning of the year, no question.
Now with the trades made, one still can’t say their roster is better than the Cavs, but maybe now they’re equally terrible.
The Bucks are nasty. Coach Bud was a huge upgrade over Kidd. He starts Brogdon & Bledsoe and moves Middleton to SF. Makes them less vulnerable to penetration with two quicker guards instead of Snell & Middleton on the wing.
Plus, Bledsoe, Brogdon, and Middleton can all create some off the bounce, while Snell cannot (more of a spot up guy). And Lopez can still dominate smaller guys in the post & generate looks/doubles if you want to post him. Or you can post Giannis. Middleton is also good shooting over smalls.
Yep. Bud really has greatly improved/fit the perfect offensive system to his personnel with two different teams now. He overachieved with Atlanta and has unlocked the Bucks on both sides. Their p and r coverage makes sense for their personnel. That is the definition of great coaching adapting. Pop has done it his whole career. Even though he might not like the current offensive style of the league, he was a major part in creating it. Compare those teams sets to his early 2000s teams sets and wowser. Now he has midrange guys so that is how they play. I… Read more »
Disagree on Lopez, he has to shoot that many threes to space for Giannis. Their completely five out offense is why their offense has gone to from 7th in efficiency last year to second this year. Give Giannis that much space and they are deadly on offense as long as they make their threes. They are prone to variance of course because like every other team, but GS they don’t have 3 out of the best 10 shooters in the league in their starting lineup. Their net efficiency bodes well for sustainable success in the playoffs. But of course everything… Read more »
Three of their losses have been close ones to the dregs of the league. I put less stock in those losses than losses and wins against the elite teams. They have done pretty well against Raptors, GS, Denver, Boston, Portland, and Indiana. I think they have a high ceiling in that they can compete against every elite team and often win. They also may have a lower floor than a team like Philly which has three guys that can kill you individually, but Philly may be a good matchup for them if they can pull Embiid away from the paint.… Read more »
I don’t believe in the Bucks. Despite being a very good regular season coach, I don’t believe Bud is a very good post-season coach. I wouldn’t put much stock in any regular season game that happens this side of the calendar. We’ll see if Giannis can elevate his game to dominate when it matters in the playoffs… but until then, they’re a contender but not the favorite in my book…
Oh, and Lopez shooting 7 threes a game is just silly… 3-5 I get, but 7? Foolishness…
At 37 percent it isn’t. It unlocks their offense by giving Giannis complete freedom in the lane.
Guess we’ll see… lot harder to get those looks in the post season…
Like I said. Depends on how much teams want to let Giannis wreak utter havoc. Maybe they let him utterly explode and cover everyone else extremely tight on the perimeter.
Giannis is not LBJ level yet… he needs a better outside shot… his havoc isn’t utter just yet…
With how they play offensively and the space it opens for him, if they are fully locked in, I don’t know. Giannis has way more space than even LBJ did.
Disagree completely… the space LBJ had during his years in Miami, and then the 16 and 17 seasons here were the definition of space…
You forgetting those playoff games where the Cavs set records for three pointers with Korver, Frye, Kyrie, Love, etc?
The cavs also played TT most of the time and started him most of the time. That is a guy who is and was by necessity in the paint. Wade wasn’t a threat from deep. You would rather shade off him even in Miami than give James the paint.
Think if you replace TT with Lopez. Then you have four guys playing most of the minutes surrounding James as shooters.
Lopez isn’t anywhere close to the rebounder TT is… lose that and you lose second chance opportunities… Wade didn’t have to be a threat from deep because Bosh was a much better version of what you’re touting Lopez as… and they had Ray Allen and other guys like Miller who could fill it up from deep…
Call me if and when the Bucks start setting three point records in April and May…
My point isn’t that the bucks are better than the cavs or heat were. My point is that they play a true five out or four out with their one guy that can be in as their most dominant player. We didn’t most of the time. Is TT standing out at the three point line most of those series? Would teams rather give up an open three to wade? We and the Heat were still a vastly better team. I am purely talking about having four average to good 3pt shooters around a single dominant paint presence like LBJ. Sometimes… Read more »
And on Bud he hasn’t had the talent with those Atlanta teams he does now. That 60+ win team was way less talented than the cavs team that smoked them, even without love.
You mean the team that had four All Stars?
Come on. They had no true super star. They had no guy like James or Kyrie who could just score against any defense. They had four all stars by default, because none of them were typically as good as most super stars. The system is why they had four all stars.
Those four guys were better than anyone else on the Bucks team besides Giannis…
Disagree. Not Teague. Not Horford. Lopez isn’t getting dominated by TT like Horford. Middleton was close to Milsap. Korver was great that year but couldn’t creat anything for himself. Bledsoe, Brogdon, Middleton, and Lopez can all create their own shot in certain ways.
You’re comparing TT who now has no help against Lopez… Milsap was much more dominant than Middleton in his prime… Korver wasn’t just great, he shot 51% from three. Teague and Bledsoe might be a wash…
Really I am comparing this bucks team with Giannis to a Hawks team without any semblance of Giannis and four good, not great individual playoff players. The bucks aren’t beating the cavs, but I think they have more overall talent than the Hawks did.
Agree to disagree… that Hawks team got to the ECF… I don’t know that this Bucks team does…
I don’t think the other east teams (minus the cavs) beat them. Chicago may have given them a run. But then again the Hawks didn’t play Chicago either.
Who, besides Giannis, is an All-Star on this current Bucks team?
You could make a case for Middleton in the east now. The point is that Bud has an unstoppable force in Giannis with how they play, and the other four are very good players on both sides of the ball and competent to good offensive players.
Middleton maybe… although he’s still behind Kawhi and Tatum…
I mean Giannis is averaging 26.5 on 57.5 fg% with 13 boards, 6 assists, and is one of the top defenders in the league. He is having a Shaq like season in terms of dominance in the paint. Bud never had anyone like that in Atlanta, and I would argue Bledsoe is as good or better as Teague (especially on d), Lopez is as good as Horford, Middleton is as good as Milsap in terms of his two way play, and Brogdon is solid all around.
Shaq like? C’mon dude…
26.5 with 13 boards on 57.5 is Shaq like. He obliterates people with space and he has space most of the time now.
You saying that makes me believe you never actually watched Shaq play… lol
No Shaq was unstoppable for awhile. I know. It is a little hyperbole considering defenses back then. But my point is that Giannis may be unstoppable enough in that offense for them to come out of the east, provided those other guys make their open threes.
I guess we’ll see… there have been high hopes and robust prognostications for a few years now on the Bucks… I expected Budenholzer to make them a much more competitive regular season contender… but the proof will be in how well his system around Giannis holds up in the playoffs, and if The Alphabet is finally ready to take that next step when it matters… Like all things that get prematurely lauded (e.g. President Stevens — who still has yet to win anything), I reserve my right to be skeptical until proven otherwise…
Certainly. If the Bucks shooters can’t hit open shots, or if Giannis can’t dominate with space, they probably don’t win the east.
I am not crowning the east to Toronto, Philly, or Boston though either at this point. If those two things above happen then the Bucks likely can’t beat any of them. If they don’t then I think the Bucks could knock off any of them.
I guess they’d better hope they don’t have any games where Lopez goes 0-12 from beyond the arc, like when they lost at home… to the Suns…
Variance could kill them, no doubt. High ceiling, but maybe a lower floor than Toronto, Boston, Philly.
Not for nothing… but Lopez shot 4-12 from three tonight with Giannis back and the Bucks lost by 16…
Is Curry following Kyrie’s brain pattern on solar system issues?? LoL I guess the Moon Landing was fake now. We were all duped.
It makes it so much easier to not care about anything either of them says when they show themselves to be complete dum@$$es.
AGREE WITH JASON ON AGING / TRADEABLE VETS —GOING TO EXTRA CAUTIOUS WITH THEM AS NOT TO REINJURE / LOSE TRADE VALUE
Rumors (Marc Stein) have Rockets interested in JR Smith. Others have them shopping Brandon Knight.
What do you guys think of a swap centeted on JR/Knight? Salaries match. Knight is $15 mil for next year then a UFA. Hasn’t played much/at all in the last 1.5 years due to injury. Reclaimation project? Though Houston meeds a backup PG as well. Houston has their own 1sts but 2nds in 2019 & 2020 are spoken for.
Unfortunately I don’t think JR will pull a first. I don’t really want Knight much. Certainly not to a long term deal. Maybe a one year to prove himself.
Jr could pull a first if they eat knight’s salary.
Yeah. We gotta get something extra for eating an $11 million sandwich next year.
Unless we are real Bullish on Knight playing well enough to get us something next year or being a piece going forward, which makes no sense given his injury history.
Does Houston have a prospect we might be interested in?
I get we have to get something, but I am just unsure Morey gives up a first to still be capped out.
For one year of 15 million? That isn’t that much salary eating. Even if they dump Knight they still have -15 million in practical cap space with everyone that is guaranteed for 2019-2020.
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/houston-rockets/cap/2019/
At least that is the picture I get. Will still have something like 115 to 120 million in guaranteed contracts. Around 6-10 million over the projected cap.
Not sure that would be worth it to them to give up a first is my point.
George Hill got Cavs some pieces, may be Knight will get some pieces too if he plays well. The problem if Brandon Knight plays well, Cavs might like to keep him unlike Celtics who traded Isaiah anyway or like Suns who used cap space to sign Ariza and now will probably net them a late first round pick using Ariza as leverage. Better to accumulate tradeable assets, turn them to picks, My 2 cents.(I was so used to visit CTB frequently, old habits die hard and now and then I visit the site).
Maybe he nets some assets as an expiring the year after next. I don’t see him as a legit reclamation project though. Would be nice to dupe Morey into a first to still be capped out. I think Morey is too smart to gamble that he can move more pieces to sign someone in the 2019 offseason. JR is certainly not the answer to their issues this year.
YEAH TOUGH LUCK FOR T.T. / HE WAS ENGAGED / PLAYING HIS BEST BALL/ ALL STAR NUMBERS —-2-4 WEEKS –AND AS I MENTIONED EARLIER HOW WILL THE TIME OFF AFFECT HIS PLAY WHEN HE RETURNS —–FULL “ZION ” TANK MODE ————–IF ANOTHER TEAM CAME UP WITH A TREMEDOUS OFFER RIGHT NOW FOR T.T. / DO YOU MAKE THE TRADE ?
Yes. I Make the trade.
What is a tremendous offer? A first without protections from a contender yes. A first with some 1-10 protections from a borderline contender yes. I just don’t think we get that for him.
I’m sad for TT just from the possibility he was going to get real looks from other teams if he kept up his play, but I’m kinda glad we get to go full on Nance for the next month. I want that guy to get as many touches as possible.
Welp. TT out 2-4 weeks.
It’s being reported that TT is out 2-4 weeks. Oooh Boy, going to be a rough 2 weeks for the Cavs
The road to Zion will be a treacherous one filled with many trials and tribulations.
Good for the tank project, anyway…too bad, he was playing well…
Could be 4. I would expect us, like all tanking/rebuilding teams, to be cautious with injured vets. Especially here. Why?
4 weeks puts TT back mid-Jan. Right around when Love is targeting. Assuming we’d like at least a brief look at what we have at full strength for a week or two before the trade deadline, if we rush TT back & he hurts it again that window may nit happen.
Sad for TT. Gonna be a rough month. Good news for project Zion.
I’m not rushing him but I do agree in this podcast that he might rush it. He has a thing with embracing “The Iron Man”
DELLY WITH SOLID STAT LINE —11/4/2 –16 MIN’S—WELCOME BACK DELLY !!!
We need that from everyone on the team.
MAN –(WITH ALL THE INJURIES / BOTH TEAMS )—–CAVS AND NUGGETS SHOULD JOIN FORCES —OUCH !!—-ANY WORD ON HOW LONG T.T. MIGHT BE OUT / WILL THIS AFECT HOW HE HAS BEEN PLAYING WHEN HE COMES BACK ?
AFTER WATCHING THE REPLAY– ( ACTUALLY DURING )– I GOT ALL “BUCKED ” UP—–TAKE AWAY DELLY / LNJ / T.T. EVEN BLOSSOMGAME —ALL OTHER PLAYERS PRETTY WELL STUNK IT UP ……..JASON GOOD PT ON PLAYERS PLAYING FOR CONTRACTS / PLAYING FOR THEMSELVES —–BUT IF I AM A GOOD G.M. I NOTICE THESE THINGS —“STUFFED STATS ” SHOULD BE OVERLOOKED ——–LOOK AT THE TRUE VALUE OF A PLAYER
One bad thing about having so many guys who are playing fir contracts/trades (Hood, Burks, Jones, Blossomgame) is that sometimes they play for themselves rather than the team. The 2 way guys stayed in their lane, and Blossomgame was outstanding.
You can challenge me to a drinking contest Nate. I might even fly over for it…
We can discuss all things Douglas Adams while we are at it (my wife is 42 also).
Awesome! I’m sure you could drink me under the table. I can’t do hard alcohol.
It’s not enough…but it’s something.
https://mobile.twitter.com/ByJasonLloyd/status/1072488067582316547
That was funny… Still can’t get use to Lebron wearing those colors.
It’s gross. And unlike Nate and EG, I am not over throwing shade at ‘Bron yet. It’s the LAKERS.
It’s not gross. Didn’t get him in the boys (though it came close), and Olynyk popped right back up.
Exactly, no one was working for a better shot. It was like watching mindless robots in a very bad video game.