/https://www.thestar.com/content/dam/thestar/sports/raptors/2013/10/11/raptors_aches_pains_and_injuries_part_of_life_for_nba_mascots/the_raptor.jpg "Live Thread: Cavs vs Raptors")
Live Thread: Cavs vs Raptors
2021-04-10As the Cavs are rounding into form and playing their best basketball of the season, its interesting to see their opponents embracing the tank. While the Cavs are missing Windler, Nance, and Allen, the Raps injury list is… extensive.
The Cavs might be missing Jarrett Allen but the Raptors injury Report is a whole other beast. They'll be without:
Pascal Siakam
Fred Vanvleet
Paul Watson
Jalen Harris
And Kyle Lowry and Rodney Hood are questionable.
I'm really hoping we can get this one tonight.— 𝙍𝙚𝙘𝙖𝙥 (@CavalierRecap) April 10, 2021
It’s interesting to see the Cavs zigging when other teams are zagging, but, I am happy to see the Cavs win. Lets hope it continues tonight.
If that heave is a factor in the outcome, I am going to be really upset.
Still, a very good half of Cavs hoops.
Lt up.
GREAT POINT CLF—WHY WAS D.G. IN THERE AND NOT DOTSON
ANOTHER EARLY NIGHT WITH “THE DOG AND THE MRS NOMAD” :-)
WOW LMFAOOO
https://twitter.com/ChrisFedor/status/1381364922853040129?s=20
Lovely. Hello unwatchable basketball.
why was DG in late in the game in a 20 point loss JB??????
Also, hello Zion triple double.
He may outscore the Cavs tonight
CLF got back from holidays, I was so inspired so I took my fam on a trip. Missed the last 2 games.
Looks like the yin & the yang. I don’t remember the Cavs being in a tight game for a while…OT used to happen more, usually when I had places to be after the game
Precious little of that, which means this team is (understandably) fragile.
games like this is why the Cavs may need to consider more than a lottery pick and possibly looking at the coaching staff…how do you go from 20+ point wins to 20+ point loss especially facing a team playing backups and guys who wouldnt play even routine minutes? One thing for the players to lack the focus, but the coaching is the other piece…this should have been another big win but instead giving up 87 points in a half? I mean these are the things that needs to be considered for talking about development and the future. Not only do… Read more »
I’m less optimistic on JB than on Koby… Koby’s moves this year have generally been pretty good – drafting Okoro, getting Allen, Prince, Hart etc. Wade and Stevens have been nice fliers. Definitely have a direction for the front court with Love, Allen, Nance, Hart, and Wade. Salary cap situation moving forward is pretty good. KPJ was the biggest loss but can’t blame that situation entirely on Koby. If this Cavs hit on this year’s lottery pick and jettison Sexton, the team has a relatively straightforward path to improvement pretty quickly – at least in terms of roster construction. If… Read more »
Good take.
They are. It will.
Hartenstein has been playing like a future all-star since he got here and has suddenly seen his foul rate fall off a cliff. 9 fouls in his last 4 games playing 22 mpg in that stretch. His last 3 games he has averaged 27 mpg and 12/11/5 with 2 blocks and a steal against 1 TO on 75% TS. Per 36 that would be 16/15/6- pretty much Andre Drummond stats except with good efficiency scoring and fewer TOs. Still incredibly small sample, but his first 140 mins were way better than the Cavs could have hoped for. If he turned… Read more »
The Cavs are starting 2 rookies, including a UDFA and 4 of their starters have less than 3 years of experience (and the lone Vet is on a mins restriction). For their bench rotation they have another UDFA rookie and a 3rd year player with less than 1,000 total NBA mins. These are normal outcomes for extremely young teams with little continuity.
updated EPM:
#49 Allen +2.3
#120 LNJ +0.7
#128 Hartenstein +0.6
#217 KLOVE -0.8
#227 Sexton -0.9
#260 Wade -1.5
#278 Cedi -1.7
#287 Garland -1.9
#299 Prince -2.0
#334 Stevens -2.6
#352 Dotson -2.8
#376 Okoro -3.3
#400 Thomas -3.7
#403 Windler -3.8
#414 Kabengele -4.1
#429 Delly -4.7
How is Delly that low?!
Priors from last year? Last few years at least BPM wise haven’t been very good, really since he left Cleveland for Milwaukee. EPM uses bayesian priors so I expect he would not have played enough impactful games this season to adjust for that.
Yeah, would have to include a large time scope. Which is silly, when you consider how much +/- depends on the team one plays with.
Concussion symptoms aside, Delly would have have good cause to not recognise some of his teammates.
yup, Delly’s defense is gone…. which was how he survived in the NBA for so long. Just can’t hang anymore.
Also there would be a lot of noise in his numbers since he’s only played 87 minutes this year.
But at the end of the day, he’s shooting 30% TS and his defense is gone.
Love 4-8 from 3
Wade 4-8 from 3
DG 3-7 from 3
Sexton 20 FGAs, only 3 from 3 (1-3 from 3).
Just playing the absolute dumbest offensive basketball possible…. even Prince was 2-3 from 3….. we were raining 3s and our two 6’0” guards took 27(!!!) shots inside 3.
Sexton I get because I just don’t think he is that great of a pull-up three shooter and/or that confident without a lot of time and space unless he is in a set catch and shoot. His sort of set form from three and range just don’t seem conducive to being high volume, at least from pull-up threes. Which is ok as long as his TS hovers overall around 58-60%. Obviously he has games where he is less efficient, but those are acceptable volume scoring TS% range. Garland, well I dunno what is going on there because he seems to… Read more »
Also giving up 87 points in the first half and 35 in the fourth was the real issue. Offensively cavs were above average and scored consistently qtr to qtr. But when you allow a team to do what Toronto did, pretty much a guaranteed loss. Granted there was some smoking hot shooting in there, a la Gary Trent having by far a career night (previous was 31 on way less efficiency) and maybe the most efficient shooting game he will ever have. That is nba jam on fire.
yeah, but that’s specific to the perimeter defenders… we’re literally the worst offense in the NBA in an era where it’s never been easier to score.
AND the idea behind Sexland was that they were supposed to be offensively dynamic to justify the bad defense, over the past two years, that experiment should be seen as a total failure.
To be fair Toronto made some obscenely ridonkculous shots. Especially from the perimeter. Trent made a number with guys even other than Sexton or DG draped all over him. No one else seemed to miss a typical amount of open treys either. I haven’t given up on them being a high powered offensive duo. DG still has a ways to improve. And he has improved significantly this year. Especially as a playmaker. Sexton has to my great surprise improved as a playmaker as well. Still not great, but I never imagined him to be more than a 2-3 assists per… Read more »
That’s the thing though, if any team were ever to have a historic shooting night, it’d be against the Cavs’ perimeter defense!!!! LMFAOOOO it’s just mathematically inevitable! yeah, I’d have to disagree re: Sexton’s passing… it’s as bad as ever and literally the only guys who pass worse are our big men. DG I’m going to reserve judgment until next year…. since my thing about him is that I think he’s a year behind developmentally because of the college injury. But he’s only tracking at the same pace as Sexton impact-wise, which is not all that exciting objectively speaking it… Read more »
Statistically it is better and to my eye test he definitely is looking for people on the interior more, which granted isn’t saying much comparatively to his first two years. He doesn’t seem to find people on the perimeter like at all though, which is a problem for generating open threes for others. The other major issue and perhaps as big of an issue as being undersized defenders is rebounding. It’s going to be an issue unless both find a way to box out every single time. Even then still an issue. Unless we have three superior positional rebounders at… Read more »
yup… 3 of the worst rebounders in the NBA starting for our squad LMFAOOOOOOOOOOO
At least Love is back, and he seems to be playing well so far…. hopefully we see him hit high 20s usage and see the full potential of Sexland, unfortunately i have no confidence in the coaching staff and Sexland actually executing that plan.
re: Sexton, good point about him being seemingly better in the catch and shoot (too lazy right now to look up his %) . the problem is that he’s such a defensive negative, that he basically has to be special offensively (over 60% TS plus assist ratio >20). He’s not going to get there without both increasing his 3pt abilities and become a lot more willing passer. re: Garland…. I’m very concerned that the problem is coaching. I think it’s obvious he doesn’t have a green light, which is insane because that’s his only path to NBA success…. he’ll never… Read more »
Drummond having a nice game for the Lakers, good for him! Will be really interesting to see how he does next to LeBron.
Shoutout to Alphonzo McKinnie too!!! nice game from him off the bench!
The tank rolls on. Rarely been so delighted I couldn’t see a game.
LMFAOOOOO indeed it does!!! Cavs absolutely clownish first half.
As much as I am skeptical of Thibs I almost wonder if a defensive grinder and motivator wouldn’t be useful for some of the young guys. Not saying I want thibs, but a guy that somehow manages to build grindhouse defensive cultures most places might be beneficial. Of course that didn’t work so well in Minny. But obviously his MO in chicago and clearly has done it again in NY.
Wonder if their is another defense guy out there. Maybe JB is a guy like that but someone that seems to do it more often than not like thibs.
I actually think that’s exactly JB’s MO, but the name of the game in basketball is offense, always has been, always will be.
Yeah his MO but exactly how well does he do it or motivate? Also there were times late 90s early 2000s where defense was basically the deciding factor. Remember those those Pistons, SA, Philly teams of early 2000s? Boy that was some ugly ball. That whole era was ugly.
I think he loses his teams once the team realizes how much he sucks on offense LMFAOOOOO
Could be. But somehow Thibs seems to keep Chi town going for awhile. Eventually his teams burn out though. I am sure the Knicks will in a few seasons too.
yup, in fact, Knicks collapse seems imminent now that Thibs has ran Randle into the ground and refuses to bench Elfrid Peyton, who’s quite literally the worst starting PG in the NBA.
Yeah they also aren’t as gifted defensively as those chi town teams were.
Yup, Noah was definitely better than MitchRob/Noel is now.
yeah I think that era was more an aberration because MJ encouraged all scorers to take the most inefficient shots possible LMFAOOOOOOo
Iso and basic p and r play was definitely at a peak across the league then. Ironically the bulls used the triangle a lot and obviously Jordan just took over a lot too though.
Yup, so weird how the triangle offense gets a bad rap because Melo and the Knicks couldn’t run it, it’s literally the proto-space and pace offense that everybody goes gaga over now LMFAOOOO.
Yep and look what the shaq kobe lakers did with it.
Amen brother!!! and Kobe destroyed it with his ball-hogging!!!!!!!!
I don’t know if any other coach ever ran it to the extent Phil Jackson has. People use concepts of it of course. But I can’t think of someone else that has used it in the nba as their primary system. I don’t know if Tex Winters was ever an NBA head coach.
right, and I think it has probably lost effectiveness because of the lack of screening to create mismatches with switch-heavy defensive schemes.
I don’t think Winters was an NBA head coach, but I have a crappy memory LMFAOOOOo
Cavs haven’t been in a close game since that bungled loss to Sacramento on 28 March, it’s all win or lose by 20 — what a strange season. Hope they are healthy/healthier for tomorrow and don’t get absolutely lacquered by Zion et al, although that is starting to feel inevitable… Good point by John B about not dealing well with success
wasn’t part of their core identity supposed to be grit/defense? hmm
Somehow, ironically, it’s their selfishness on offense that’s really dooming them…. not that their defense is anything to write home about.
This team still doesn’t get it needs to show consistent effort on both ends every night for 4 quarters. They don’t deal with any sort of wins well.
damn, Hartenstein was a freaking menace tonight on defense, 7 stocks in 25 minutes!!!!!!
on top of 6 assists and 8 rebounds.
and a +1
yup, only guy of consequence that was a positive.
His per 36 minutes for his short stint with us are pretty ridiculous.
Per 36
15.6 points, 14.1 rebs, 5.8 asts, 2.5 blocks, 1.3 tov, .644 TS, 23.7 PER
Those are all star numbers in starters minutes. Of course with more minutes and a larger role his per36 numbers, TS%, and his PER would go down, but still pretty wild. Not ready to say he is this guy going forward. Have to see it over 20 games or so, but damn impressive so far.
I just can’t believe we got him as a throw in. I understand why given his NBA statistics (ie could rate) before he got here but he really looks the part so far in a Cavs uni. He’s huge, mobile, good IQ (maybe great?) plays with energy and he is young and dirt cheap for another year. If he plays near this level and keeps his fouls down then Nance becomes a great pairing next to him, he covers Nance’s big weakness on the glass and lack of bulk (which Allen doesn’t). His passing with Nance’s off ball movement should… Read more »
The fouls thing probably helped. Appeared he just wouldn’t be able to stay on court prior to coming here.
Cavs TV crew — “let’s focus on the third quarter, now the problem was the Cavs were already down 33, but really a lot of good things to build on there” (I paraphrase)
LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOO pretty good!!! almost verbatim!
M. Kabengele rolled bis ankle pretty good there.
bad — he had canned his three point shot
WHAT HAPPENED TO DG?????
dammit, rolled his ankle.
what?
he stepped on Flynn’s ankle
dammit Kabengele just rolled his ankle!!!!
JB must really have something against Damyean Dotson, or did he just want to make sure they didn’t lose by 30 rather than 20?
I do think Dotson’s getting a bit shorted…. he defends!!!!
I don’t mind seeing Thomas though because of the potential offensive upside.
If anybody deserved the bench tonight, it was Sexton for his lack of effort on the defensive end.
Nice bounce back from DG and Okoro in the 2nd half, fire Sexton into the Sun sick of him mailing it in defensively.
Hartenstein the Cavs’ best player this game. There’s not a close second.
LMFAOOO Captain Obvious over here!!! LMFAOOOOOO
Lack of off ball movement killing cavs again.
Wade has been abysmal this game defensively.
He’s gotten bullied tonight like I’ve never seen… tough matchup though, he’s not close to OG/Boucher’s level.