Cavalier Reactions: LeVerting to Form

On Sunday the Cavs traded for Caris Levert. After a podcast that night, reactions among the CtB staffers devolved into a royal rumble, and we heard from quite a few folks who hadn’t touched base in a while. It didn’t take long till everyone was LeVerting back to their old basketball analyst ways and flying off the top rung with their hot takes. Taking the pulse of the CtB staff, there was a large divide between those who loved the trade, those who hated the trade, and those who took a more measured approach. We thought it would be interesting to provide you all with a glimpse of some of our internal discussions, and see which one of the Cavs: the Bloggers you’d put in your tag team corner.

Ben Werth

I really dislike this trade. I am super bummed that we now have another guy I can’t stand watching. Yes, we needed someone who could grab himself a bucket, but LeVert is basically Sexton with more pullup jumper game. (which is not a good thing). It will be the biggest challenge for JB now to convince LeVert that he should be a team player, move the ball, not pound it for a minimum of five dribbles, and generally not play a brand of hero ball that is antithetical to the style of play the Cavs have cultivated.

Maybe he learns to play some two man ball with Love, and when he is hot, he isn’t terrible, but when he isn’t hot, he is a minus player on both ends.  In The Playoffs, he might help Cleveland steal a game, but he better be on board with the Cavs style, or you all will be hate watching him within five games. It was also no surprise to see Rondo step it up last night knowing his minutes might be taken.

[Referring to the latest Cavs, the Podcast] LeVert is not a better passer than Larry Hughes was by the way. Larry shot like garbage after joining the Cavs, but was a good passer. LeVert is average at best.  Caris hasn’t been a good player. I doubt he becomes one.

I hope I am wrong.

Elijah Kim:

I think I’d rather have LeVert than Gordon if the cost was the same but I don’t think it’s a “great deal” like all of Cavs Twitter is saying… But, the Cavs could have max cap space in 22-23 end before the Mobley extension kicks in with Love and Levert off the books. It’ll be interesting.

Nate Smith:

Ben, I’d have much rather gotten Derrick White for most of the reasons you specified. I’d actually still love to have White. To your point (and belying your point a bit, Caris had fallen off a cliff as far as EPM, dropping from around +1 to what you see below) . Meanwhile, White continues to excel. I don’t see how Sexton and LeVert fit together next year at all, so Collin, a pick, and parts for White still makes sense to me. However, the Cavs had to do something, cause JB was going to run Garland into the ground. I also don’t think a Cavs draft pick would even get much time to develop next season, and in a weaker class, I’m fine with that.

The Cavs could easily spin off LeVert this summer if he has a good playoffs, so a trade and extend feels like an easy pivot if we don’t like what we see. If LeVert were a huge factor for winning, Indy would’ve had a better record. I’m not sure he’s the greatest buy low candidate, but he fits the time line better than Gordon, and doesn’t cost an arm and a leg like Fox [this conversation took place before the Kings’ trade]. I like Hart but don’t think he can be a primary ball handler. Ultimately, Caris is better than Rondo and Pangos.

Tom Pestak:

I can talk myself into it.  There could be very little separation between the top 8 teams in the east when the dust settles.  The Cavs without Garland and Rubio are a bottom 10 team.  This move may have already bought the Cavs Sunday’ win by having LeVert sit out.  The Cavs need someone that can generate offense.  I agree the style doesn’t align with what the Cavs are doing and there is a risk here.  But Ben, if Markkanen and Garland both miss about 50% of the remaining Cavs games does this move make more sense to you?

To your point on Larry Hughes, the problem was the Cavs desperately needed floor spacing and some usage relief for LeBron.  Larry didn’t really provide either.  Given so much hindsight I don’t blame Hughes as much as I used to.  In some ways it’s been hard for many non-one-trick-ponies to coexist with LeBron.  Also, Larry’s athleticism abandoned him quickly.  He was a dunk contest participant.  I cant remember a lot of above the rim action during his tenure in C town.

EvilGenius:

I’ve been underwater (and a bit off the grid) with the job, but y’all are nuts if you don’t like this trade. What did the Cavs desperately need? Playmaking. Ball handling. Scoring. They got all three in LeVert.

1. If NOTHING else, this helps preserve Garland a bit, who already has a sore back (from carrying this team offensively haha), and adds a dude who can absolutely go off and break a team down if needed (like LeVert did to the Lakers a couple weeks ago and the Bulls just last Friday). That’s good for probably one win a series in the playoffs. Other than the rare Garland breakout, LeVert gives them a guy who could go for 40-50 on the occasional night they need it.
2. Caris may not be anything more than a serviceable wing defender, but look how much the Terminal Towers protect the back end anyway. There’s nothing to suggest LeVert’s anything other than a good dude and a positive locker room presence. He’s an Ohio guy, and a former teammate of Jarrett’s, so there may still be leftover chemistry from that.
3. And what did Cleveland give up? Okoro? Sexton? Cedi? Windler? Nah, how about a protected first that will likely be in the high 20s (which by the way, guys like Amico have already gone on record saying the Cavs were never planning on using for anything other than a trade to get better), in a draft that’s already looking bleak. And, a high second rounder from Houston (prob in the low 30s). Yes, these picks could be interesting gambles, but the Cavs have gotten really good at identifying and developing undrafted guys (Stevens, Wade, Goodwin) that they don’t have to pay even second round money.
4. Who else would they have gotten? Eric Gordon? Dude is 33 and would have cost them the same picks at least.Dennis Schroeder? Bad locker room fit and not a starter. Probably cost the picks and a piece. I don’t believe for a minute that White, Hield or Barnes would have been available for anything less than a first and either Okoro or Sexton. LeVert is 27 and is under team control for 1.5 more seasons! They could choose to extend him without infringing on future max deals for Garland and Mobley, OR they could trade his expiring next year, or have almost another max slot with him and Love off the books in the summer of 2023! Bottom line is that they gave up nothing truly valuable, and kept the awesome chemistry intact by keeping the band together.
5. What about similarities of him and Sexton? The best part is that they have 28 games plus the playoffs to see how LeVert plays with this group, and especially alongside Garland in the backcourt. You don’t have to hope Sexton is recovered for a playoff run (though if he is, that’s a bonus piece coming off the bench). LeVert, if he works out, puts the Cavs in the catbird seat dealing from strength with whatever they decide to do with Sexton. They can entertain any number of sign and trade deals in the summer, or convince him to sign for a modest extension.
6. I think they might still snag another PG in the buyout market (Dragic anyone?) in case Rondo blows a hammy, and I also think there’s a better than average chance they re-sign Rubio in the off season.
7. @Ben, you can hate-watch LeVert all you want, but the thing I’ve hated watching these last four games without Garland, is that barring a Love/Cedi hot streak from three, this team that’s been so much fun to watch all season (when I can), is borderline painful to watch from an offensive futility standpoint. That first quarter, and really first three quarters on Sunday was U.G.L.Y. And it had no alibi.
8. Miss hanging with you all!

#InKobyITrust

Ben Werth:

That young Nets team did have great chemistry back a few seasons. Maybe Caris is more capable of playing team ball than I fear. But his numbers don’t indicate as much. Still, with the Cavs’ bigs, there could be plenty of Kobe assists.

I also agree Garland needed help. LeVert is a chucker though who gets hot. He’s basically prime Lance Stevenson without the defense. He absolutely will drop 40 one night. He will also go 7 for 35 over a few games. But anything is better than watching Pangos pretend to be an NBA player.

Dani Socher:

My preferred target was Norm Powell because Garland has been so absurd that putting a pure high-volume bomber next to him could look REAL good.

That being said…Gordon is quite old. If he was available for seconds that’s one thing, but for the same price I’d rather have LeVert. And while Darius has been able to drive efficient offense as the only ball-handler on the floor, I don’t think it’s a viable long-term plan. At some point, he needs relief. And I find myself wondering if the back issues that have cropped up are related to his high workload over the last stretch of play.

LeVert is a much better fit than Collin. He’s six inches taller, and actually passes the ball willingly. If Cleveland can get an asset or two for Collin this offseason – say, one lotto-protected FRP – then it cost us two seconds to upgrade him to Levert.

I will add that LeVert has shot (low volume) 39% on catch-and-shoot threes this year. If that number holds – or even slips just to 36% – we would have a vastly better offense. I’m tired of seeing Okoro brick wide-open corner threes, or drive to nowhere and wildly throw passes out to the perimeter.

I agree with Benjamin generally about being low on LeVert. His career has been disappointing since his standout rookie season, that’s just undeniable. That being said, Koby Altman has gained my trust. I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on this one. He has done an impeccable job over the last few years, and I’m excited to see if LeVert is willing to try hard on defense (and if he makes threes) for the Cavs. If he can accomplish those two goals – no sure thing, I’ll admit – this trade will be a major success.

Last point: this is a horrible draft outside of the very top. 15-35 look very similar in terms of value. That can be misleading and contributors are found every year, but I wonder if the Cavs were low on this draft, and simply chose to get rid of their ’22 draft assets.

EvilGenius:

Powell is a nice piece, but primarily provides shooting. I’d argue the needs in order of importance were playmaking, ball handling and then shooting for the Cavs. They have plenty of shooters who excel when given the ball in more optimal spots, that much was obvious prior to Ricky going down. Having another play maker who can handle the rock and dish it out like LeVert can, should open things up more for Kev, Cedi, Lauri (when he returns, and oh yeah DG. Garland is an awesome offense generator, but he was also excelling off ball when he and Ricky played together. Honestly, Ricky was the CP3 with young Phoenix that would have propelled this team into potentially the ECF.

So yeah, is LeVert without warts on the shooting side? Of course not. But, does he give the Cavs a second playmaker who can be effective on or off ball and create for others, aw hell yeah.

Elijah Kim:

I find it hilarious that a lot of National people like the deal except for Hollinger, Duncan, and KOC. It’s even more funny because they hate it due to the draft picks being too valuable despite all three of them lately poo-pooing this draft class to oblivion as recently as a week ago.

I think it’s an okay move and keeps some flexibility for a max space in 22-23, while at the same time making it a bit murkier for Sexton’s future fit.

Adam Cathcart:

Dani makes a good point about the draft evaluation, obviously Cavs have been scouting this class for a while — and there’s also some probability of Indiana dealing the Cavs 1st round pick in a further trade, isn’t there? Indiana has their own first-round pick this year as well. “Taking a trip down amnesia lane” (TM Nate Smith on the recent pod) for a minute, Indiana has not had a first round pick which lands in the single digits since 1988 (they picked Rick Smits with #2) or 1989. They got Duarte at 13th, LaVert (2016) at 20th, Kawhi  (2011) at 15th and in the 2010 draft took Paul George at 10th and Lance Stephenson at 40th.

Would be interested to see more writing about what the LeVert trade means for the outlook on Sexton and the options there. He was making noise about coming back for the playoffs which I expect is probably also smoke, but then again I just saw 1994 “Hoop Dreams” yesterday and reminded about why coming back from meniscus tear early is a turrible idea. Also about a week ago Fedor wrote “Everybody that I’ve talked to in the organization, there is nobody that even in their mind once considered the possibility of Collin Sexton returning for the postseason.”

Ben Werth:

If they start Levert, they better win the damn championship. it was the only thing that made me survive Shump’s minutes.

We know more than the national media about how good the starting lineup has been when intact. Replacing Okoro or Lauri in the starting lineup would be idiotic. Even replacing Wade right now would be done.

LeVert off the bench taking Rondo or Goodwin’s minutes.

Sexton, no thanks buddy. Heal up.

Some of you guys on recent pods have lamented playing time for Stevens or Windler, etc…. It is better for guys to get a full run with some DNPs in mixed in than trying to play ever guy a little bit. JB has been doing a great job trying to develop the end of the bench by making it clear who will play that night. That isn’t a mistake. I would only say that he needs to remember that Wade is his best defender on big wings. He should have put Wade on the DeRozen and didn’t. That might have been one a handful of decisions that I have been against this season.

Here’s hoping he continues the trend and uses LeVert in the Rubio slot and not as a starter.

Elijah Kim:

Hearing the other deal the Cavs thought about was Luke Kennard for Rubio’s contract.

If it was no picks, might have liked that better… would have helped Clippers with their tax bill – so less draft capital.

Chris Lyden:

I find myself in the rare position of having a lot of trust in J.B. and his staff. They seem to have clearly defined roles within their offensive and defensive systems and, when the roster was healthier early in the season, committed to fitting personnel into those roles and securing buy-in with trust and results.

I would like to see LeVert come off the bench initially as Okoro has earned his spot for now, although with Lauri out, we could see them both on the floor. A quick hook and redeployment with Love and Cedi could help LeVert adapt to the pick and roll sets (a familiar roll for him with Allen in NY before he went away from this skill set entirely in Indy.)

I got to see LeVert (and teammate Jae’Sean Tate) play a few games in HS in 2012ish here in Columbus. It’s always special to see that sort of talent play against the acne’d assortment of suburban youth unable to hang with them. With reports that LeVert is eager to play the role of returning prodigal son, this Ohioan is ready to extend some homer faith to the trade and remain positive.

Tom Pestak:

Oh no, Ben!  The Shump similarity…

David Wood:

I’ll take it if Caris is gonna Shump the s**t out of people full court.

Nate Smith:

I don’t hate LeVert. I don’t think he’s perfect or without his warts. As a Stark County homer, I wanted to bring C.J. McCollum home, but I also realize his age doesn’t really fit the timeline. But what is interesting, is that I don’t think Sexton and LeVert can play together at all. LeVert is basically the six-foot-six version of Sexton. Caris’ height, admittedly, solves a lot of the problem with Sexton’s game and with his defense. But I don’t think it’s ever a good idea for a team to have two iso scorers who aren’t great off ball scorers, need the ball in their hands, and will theoretically each be in over 30 minutes a night. Theres too much redundancy of skillsets and too much non-commital defense for them to play together.

I don’t hate the trade though, because I think it makes Sexton redundant. I can’t see any way the Cavs keep Garland, Okoro, LeVert, a re-signed Rubio (who we’ve heard lots of interest in from the Cavs), and Sexton. From a numbers standpoint that roster doesn’t make any sense. Even if you see LeVert playing at the three with Okoro getting some minutes there too, you probably end up freezing Wade and/or Stevens out of the rotation.

Given that, I’d love to see Sexton moved before the trade deadline, but the marching orders are clear from J.B. before the Pacers game.

I don’t think we’re a perfect team by any means. So any additions or upgrades would be important. But we can’t do things that are going to disrupt chemistry with this group. We have to be really cautious about additions and subtractions that might interfere with that chemistry.

It’s pretty clear that coach Bickerstaff doesn’t want to mess with the incubator. What isn’t clear is whether that incubator includes Sexton, but I’m going to assume it does, at least for now.

It brings up another point, though, even if the Cavs are able to re-sign Rubio, what kind of game is he going to be able to give them coming off an ACL injury?  As an aside, I asked around on what the effectiveness post ACL is of most players, and this was the answer I got based on this journal. “About a 20% decline in performance first season back, with continued recovery in ensuing seasons largely based on age.” I thought the sports medicine had perfected ACL surgeries a little better than that, but I guess not. It also helps that Rubio’s game isn’t predicated on elite athleticism, but it begs the question: does it make sense to sign a guy who may not be 100% till he’s almost 33?

To that end, I think it makes sense to move Sexton for another guard now, and Derrick White still fits the bill. He’s a primary ball handler who plays great D but can still come off the bench. He’s not as good of a shooter as Collin, but he also doesn’t hunt for perfect shots the way YoungBull does beyond the arch. The problem is that the Cavs would have to move Osman too to make this deal work, which goes against J.B.’s chemistry mandate, especially after the Indy game. If I weren’t still basking in the glow of Cedi’s scintillating fourth quarter, Sunday, I’d trade Sexton, Osman, and a future first for White still, even if it meant Ricky wouldn’t be back.

With less than 48 hours left in the trade deadline, it should be a wild one given the moves we’ve already seen. It’s already started this morning. And with that, let’s hope Caris is everything the most optimistic of us have hoped. Go Cavs.

Kevin Pangos reportedly leaving the Cavs to join CSKA Moscowhttps://t.co/bHJzTwziQW

— Eurohoops (@Eurohoopsnet) February 9, 2022