Live Thread: Cavs vs Thunder
2022-12-10Cleveland looks to avenge their meltdown against the Kings last night with Thunder coming to town. The Thunder won three straight before getting drubbed by the Grizzlies, Wednesday. Yep, the NBA schedule Gods pitted a team going on two days rest against a team on a back to back. Cleveland will be without Donovan Mitchell, Kevin Love, and Dean Wade from their regular rotation.
Leading the Thunder: Shai Gilgeous Alexander, who’s on an all-NBA track with 31/5/6 averages, plus three stocks to only three turnovers. Cavs draft favorite, Jalen Williams has been putting up decent rookie numbers: 13/4/2. Lue Dort and Josh Giddey round out their double digit scoring.
The Cavs should be able to feast inside. OKC’s bigs are among the worst in the league, but we’ve seen this movie before. When the Cavs are going up against an inferior team, they can tend to play down to them, and it can cost. I hope the wine and gold have some fire in their belly after last night’s frustrating meltdown, but I think this one goes down to the wire. If the Cavs can keep the ball out of SGA’s hands, then they’ll eke it out.
cade has windler disease.. too bad.. tissue bones.. not good for a hoops boy.. bad on a #28 pick.. absolutely horrendous on a #1.. the nba need to be doing bone density on these youngsters.. inexcusable stupidity.. this sets detroit back about 5 years..
If they get Victor Wembaya (SP?), then they’ll be in good shape.
Mitchell and Love playing tonight.
LOOKS AS IF 3-A-KITE IS NOT TRAVELING WITH THE TEAM AS HE IS PLAYING RIGHT NOW WITH THE CHARGE—–LOOKS LIKE ” ELDER ” MOBLEY MIGHT BE TAKING HIS PLACE —-TUNE IN LATER
GOOD POINTS ON ROLO—-WHAT IF JAVALE WOULD BE AVAILABLE—-DO NOT THINK HE IS GETTING MUCH RUN –BELIEVE HE IS WITH THE MAVS ———–HATE TO “BEAT A DEAD HORSE ” THAT IS WHY KOBY MADE A MISTAKE NOT KEEPING HARD ROCK IN A CAVS UNIFORM—MY OPINION —-HE FIT THER CULTURE AND THE AGE // FUTURE GROWTH
Think Hartenstein wanted to play. Doubt he’d have been entranced by Rolo minutes.
Hartenstein would be getting Hartenstein minutes, not RoLo minutes. He would have started a couple dozen games last year, and several this year.
You would have had to convince him of that. Maybe he had other reasons, too, but from what I heard he was looking elsewhere due to PT crunch. And the Cavs may not have wanted to shell out the contract for a backup big, too.
Cavs from deep: %, 3PA/G.
Mitchell 42.4%, 9.1
Wade 41.1%, 3.3
Garland 39.4%, 6.8
Love 38.6%, 5.3
Stevens 38.5%, 1.9
————————-
LeVert 36.6%, 4.4
——————-
Diakite 33.3%, 1.1
Osman 32.7%, 4.2
Neto 29.4%, 0.9
—————-
Okoro 25.5%, 1.7
Mobley 24.1%, 1.1
Cavs from 2, %, 2PT FGA/G:
Diakite 66.7%, 0.8
Lopez 65.9%, 2.2
Allen 61.6%, 9.3
———-
Mobley 59.0%, 9.9
Neto 58.3%, 1.3
Osman 57.9%, 3.5
Mitchell 55.4%, 11.3
————-
Okoro 53.8%, 1.9
Wade 53.6%, 1.6
Love 50.0%, 2.1
I. Mobley 50.0%, 0.9
—————
Stevens 47.4%, 4.1
Garland 45.5%, 10.1
—————-
LeVert 39.0%, 6.7
For what it is worth, Cavs age brackets:
1. 18-22 (3). E. Mobley (21), Okoro (21), Garland (22). Garland turns 23 in January.
2. 23-27 (8). I. Mobley (23), Allen (24), Diakite (25), Stevens (25), Mitchell (26), Wade (26), Windler (26), Osman (27). Osman turns 28 in April.
3. 28-32 (3). LeVert (28), Neto (30), Rubio (32). Rubio just turned 32 in October.
4. 33+ (2). Love (34), Lopez (34). Lopez will turn 35 on April Fool’s, Love just turned 34 in Sept.
THANKS JASON FOR THE DIOP UPDATE—-MANY GOOD POSTS —-POSTED RECENTLY ABOUT ” GLASS WINDLER ” POSSIBLY BEING A KEY AT THE 3 SPOT—–LIKE SOME OF YOU POSTED—-STILL THINK WHEN// IF HE IS HEALTHY AND WHEN JB TRUST HIM TO GIVE HIM MINUTES THE KID CAN PLAY // WE SHALL SEE —–AND I UNDERSTAND THE RELUCTANCE OF NOT BRINGING DIOP OVER BUT WE NEED TO PUT THE ROLO EXPERIMENT TO REST AND SEARCH FOR A BONAFIDE POST ROLE PLAYER —–SUGESTIONS WHO WE COULD // SHOULD PURSUE
I do not think we are overly concerned about RoLo. At least I am not. He is here to defend other behemoths who are focal points of the offense (Embiid, Jokic, etc) or to help secure the defensive glass if a particular big is killing us (Adams). He cannot move his feet in space, and that is when he gets into trouble. If there is another behemoth in the game, he can matchup there. If not, we should be downsizing or playing Love at the 5. Or we should play drop. Cannot defend with RoLo like we do with JA/Mobes,… Read more »
If JA, Mobes, and Love are healthy, he does not play. If they are not, we are screwed anyway. Though Wade might be able to fill Love’s shoes.
It’s not the salary of Javale… It’s the years.
SO HOW SERIOUS IS SPIDA’S INJURY —-PROBABLY NOT PLAYING TONIGHT ‘S GAME
So it has become very clear that Mitchell lifts this squad to a level worthy of the trade. It has also become clear to yours truly that adding mitchell has not NOT stunted the growth of the young talent we already had. His offense covers a multitude of sins…and we are finding those sins super fast with him out. It remains to be seen whether the level we reached last year without Spida can be achieved and superseded by everyone outside of mitchell…but so far it appears Mobley has improved but gotten timid…Allen has improved…Okoro has regressed…Cedi and Love and… Read more »
Got to be a tricky season for the FO to handle. It’s year one of DM and Mobes is clearly still growing. You’re either exercising patience and using this season to grow or pushing for a deep playoff run/title. Patient and you might squander a 17-10 start, Year 1 of Spida, and the capital of the expiring players. Push and you could be burning cap with new player salaries and with the Core 4 going up to $100M salary next season.
Good post. LeVert & Love are your decisions.
As expirings, most of their trade value is in absorbing money. They are both FAs, so the team that gets them (and their Bird rights), cannot count on them staying.
Love’s high salary and advanced age mean you are likely getting back undesireable salary. But if it is a younger guy, you have to think about it.
LeVert is younger and fits our timeframe. He is not a $20 mil player, but $12-$14? I think if he demonstrates good value, you keep him around.
I am on the patience side. I think itis a year too early to contend. Boston & the Bucks are better.
But if DG & Mobley level up, I reserve the right to change my mind.
I also like keeping Love, btw. If we can concoct a defensive scheme to compensate for him, his offensive floor spacing, shooting, and gravity is super valuable. I’d be in the lab on that.
When you bring in a #1 scoring option, the toughest adjustment is for the former #1 who gets bumped to #2, or the #2 who is now #3.
We did not really have a #2. Sexton was hurt last year and got shipped out in the trade. Allen was an all-star, but is more of a roll guy than a post-up guy. Mobley’s offense is a work in progress. Love & Rubio are bench guys.
LeVert comes closest to being that #2 to #3 guy, but he got here late last year. DG is clearly the former #1.
It’s a two step. First off, you have to adjust in your time on the court with option #1. You want to develop a synergy with the new guy, not just your turn, my turn. You don’t want to be too passive. But you don’t eant to be so aggressive it looks like you don’t want to relinquish the car keys. But is also tricky when the new #1 is off the court. Especially for a PG. You want to show your value and are freer to be more aggressive, but a new #1 also bumps everyone down a rung… Read more »
Throw in the need to develop Mobley’s game and it is understandable why DG seems a bit sketchy. He’s young, too. It may take a while. LeVert totally gets pulled under some nights. He may only take 4-5 shots. Again, after Spida & DG, who is #3 is an open question. Is it Allen? LeVert? We want it to be Mobley but he isn’t quite there yet. How much do you force it? Love on a good night? Do we let the flow of the game take it or hunt matchups? If the “flow of the game” takes it away… Read more »
These are the things we have to work through offensively, conceptually. Both as a team and for individual guys to get comfortable in their skins. The role player guys (Wade, Stevens, Cedi, Neto, Lopez) have it easiest. Their roles are the same. Allen & Love are also pretty constant. Mitchell’s transition was made easier when DG got hurt. The #1 on a new team thing can be tricky, but if you are still #1… The guys who get bumped down a rung (DG, LeVert), or pushed from a starter to the bench (Okoro) are gonna have the toughest adjustments. I… Read more »
Good analysis. Reasonable/plausible projections.
If Windler comes through, that will be great.
That would be wonderful. The kid is just so brittle. We should call him peanut.
https://twitter.com/chrisfedor/status/1602087294634262529?s=46&t=YiUiTuYgfg7twMXpTL4IRg
Coming off the bench, playing out of your natural position are both very specific skills. Caris is a rhythm player and can be a volume scorer when his usage is high. I think he’s done his best to adapt to a different role on this team, especially with the arrival of Mitchell. He’s proven to be a damn good on ball perimeter defender, an excellent passer and frankly the guy is always playing hard. It’s a learning process and I think Caris will get better and Rubio will likely elevate his play as he does everyone around him. It’s on… Read more »
agree with NOMAD: good points.
It ought to be clear now that starting Caris at 3 when DG & Donovan are both in the lineup is not the way. I assume it’ll be Stevens for the foreseeable future. So Caris has to make his impact off the bench. In his 7 games as a reserve, he’s averaging 24 minutes, but his amount of run fluctuated wildly. To me, even off the bench he should get 28-30 mins of run at guard until Rubio comes back. Especially if JB’s simply not going to use Neto in his full-health rotation. DG and Spida really only need to… Read more »
A lot of players are like that. Especially when you are used to being a high volume/minutes guy (in college or whatever) and now you are a bench guy or a 4th/5th option. Going from 35 minutes and 20 shots to 25 min and 8-10 shots (or less) can really mess with a lot of guys. Okoro struggled mightily.
Playing him more minutes in a more tertiary role (starting SF) vs playing him less minutes in a bigger role will be the question going forward.
Great post.
VERY GOOD POINTS ABOUT CARIS BUCKAROO —–JUST WISHING FOR MORE CONSISTENCY—-BUT DO WE FAULT JB FOR SOME OF THIS ALSO
WOW THE COLOR ” YELLOW ” UNFORTUNATELY THE MOST POPULAR COLOR IN TODAYS GAME——–HEY REFS——BORING !!!!
deshawn just dreaming of getting to a rub’n tug after the game.. biggest joke-disaster in the history of the nfl.. haslem destroyed the franchise..although the harvard-boy front office has aided and abetted the sad process..
Haslem didn’t destroy the browns. They were a joke long before he got there. They should just contract the brown. That might actually encourage NE ohio fans to actually pay extra attention to the guardians similar to the 90s when the browns were gone.
haven’t watched the last few games.. but noting that caris has had 2 back-to-back 22 pt efforts.. yes, he can be maddening to watch at times, and he needs to get back to being money on mid-range shots.. but nice to see him stepping up.. if his contract is traded down the line, so be it.. but with a tad more consistency, he can be a key piece..
” WHO DEY VS THE FROWN CLOWNS “—-GET THE BEER ICED DOWN CLF !!
I FORGOT ALSO RAOUL—–HE CAN’T BE ANY WORSE THAN ROLO—–FROM THE HIGHLIGHTS HE IS VERY ATHLETIC// LONG// GOOD DEFENSIVE INSTINCTS // STRONG ——SO AT THE VERY WORSE WE GET DEFENSE // REBOUNDS // CAN DEFINETELY RUN THE FLOOR —BOTH WAYS —–MIGHT AS WELL GET HIS ” NBA BAPTISM ” NOW —-HIRE ROLO AS HIS PERSONAL COACH
WATCHING REPLAY RIGHT NOW—–READ SOME POSTS ——WITHOUT EVEN SEEING THE GAME—THE ROLO EXPERIMENT SHOULD BE OVER—–HAVE POSTED THIS BEFORE—-GREAT LOCKERROOM GUY —-TERRIBLE ON THE FLOOR ——GIVE THE MIN’S TO 3-A-KITE OR GO BRING OVER OUR 2ND ROUND DRAFT PICK BIG
any updates on the “2ND ROUND DRAFT PICK BIG”? I forgot his name.
Khalifa Diop plays both the the Spanish League and Euro Cup. He has played 17 games so far this year (10 Spain, 7 Euro). His MPG are up in both competitions: 22 mpg in Spain and 18.6 in Euro (16 and 15 last year).
He only takes around 5.5 shots per game, up from 4.15 last year. Scoring and FG% both look to be up slightly overall (down in Spain but up more in Euro).
https://www.basketball-reference.com/international/players/khalifa-diop-1.html
FWIW, I don’t think he comes over this year. We’ll let him develop.
yeah, doesn’t sound like he is ready.
I think his defense is ahead of his offense.
He is not gonna remind anyone of Kareem, Olajuwon, Shaq, Jokic, or Embiid.
You are hoping for a mobile-ish big who can defend some in space, rebound, roll to the rim & finish, & protect the rim. Someone to fill Allen’s roll.
Diop is 20 and listed at 7-1, 240. 20 years old. Almost 21. He could get bigger and should fill out more. He is gonna be BIG. He is getting pro-experience playing against men.
Legends
https://twitter.com/ourcleguardians/status/1601793112162021376?s=46&t=59EQsjSqstfzQWPkwbQ9Sg
SGA is another clown like Young who games the refs!
Watching the first half now and still perplexed as to why Neto doesn’t get regular minutes?
5-10 minutes let him hound the ball handler and get out, DO IT JB!!!
I’d give him closer to 10 minutes.
Agree. He’s an assured ball handler and has good position on D.
Because we know he likely won’t get PO minutes and JB has prioritized trying to:
1) Figure out what works around a DG/Spida backcourt (that’s the bet we made).
2) Figure out how Spida/DG play together.
3) Figure out what works around lineups with only 1 of DG/Spida in there.
4) Figure out what LeVert can & cannot do in terms of playmaking.
Neto is fine in limited minutes, but JB is gonna prioritize combos with guys he thinks could play key roles come PO time, and guys he’s unsure about.
Neto is a known commodity.
There will be days when he’ll get some minutes.
4.) Figure out if Levert is in the long term plans. All signs point to luxury next season, is it worth signing Levert to an extension? His play will determine that.
Feels like figuring out $ at the expense of losing.
Agreed. Now, with Mitchell out last night, most of my list did not apply and Arch & Chris have much stronger points.
DG is pressing. His head isn’t right. His effeciency on 2pt shots is way down but his 3pt is where it was last year. Seems like he presses too much to do too much when Mitchell is not in there. That 50 pt game may have screwed him up.
Totally agree that it looks like he’s trying to do too much, especially when Mitchell isn’t in there. He needs to settle down and play more under control. He’s plenty good when he does that.
The Cavs need to make the playoffs before they start considering what lineups work best. It’s not a guarantee they make the playoffs. Mitchell/Allen/Garland/etc could get hurt, and they could fall into another losing streak that once again puts them into a play-in game. You also don’t want to burn out your guards. For Christ sake we are in November/December and are running 8-man rotations. This would make more sense in Feb/March but not now.
Well Arch, we have 9 healthy rostered players. Hard to play 10 when you only have 9. And people want RoLo yanked.
For me, I am on the record that the hyperventilation about minutes is just that. Garland is 23. He has played in 21 games, averaging 35.8 mpg. If that is too heavy a load, we need a new PG.
Plus, when Rubio gets back, both guys will play fewer minutes. Which makes me even less concerned about heavier loads early in the season.
I want both guys playing more now (more wins) and figuring out the rotations.
My prediction for the rest of the year (7-3)
@ Spurs W
@ Mavs L
Pacers W
Mavs W
Jazz W
Bucks L
Raps W
Nets W
@ Pacers L
@ Bulls W
Stevens is shooting 41.7% from deep in his last 10 games. Up to 38.1% on the year.
Starting to get PJ Tucker vibes.
He and Wade got that job on lockdown.
LeVert may disagree.
But if Stevens can shoot 37-38% from deep, we need to start thinking about a contract extension.
true, and wouldn’t you know DG/Caris/Spida been trending into positive territory recently.
about three days ago many were demanding that Stevens be traded for a bum
BRAD DAUGHERTY PREACHING RIGHT NOW…. FEED MOBLEY
Brad did a nice job calling the game tonight. When our big men are playing well he’s in his element.
I was only able to watch the 4th Q. Gotta go back watch the rest of game.
Rolo appears to be 100 years old now, which is not great. It won’t matter so much if we can get KLove back.
Team got a second wind in the 4th when Lamar came back in. Despite big minutes JA and Mobley both came alive to close out. Why no Diakite is inexplicable, but how can we know?
DG should get moved to 6th man in the playoffs if he keeps this garbage up.
He can sit crunch time & watch Ricky & Spida finish.
Fitting that Lamar has the ball at the end. He and Mobley lead the charge to pull away in the 4th
Stevens & LeVert each had ZERO TOs tonight. Only 11 as a team. Mobley only non-DG with more than 1 (2).
Okoro with a decent floor game. 8/3/2, 2 threes, 2 blocks.
CARIS >>>>> SGA
HATERS IN SHAMBLES
Post of the night
thank you thank you don’t forget to tip your waiter!
DG making his FTs, at least.
Ball don’t lie.
We need a lot of work on late game TOs.
That’s not a foul
6 turnovers for Garland tonight
WTF is DG doing?
Darius come on.
Garland with a careless turn over
SGA can only pout the rest of the way
Call stands!
Well, despite blowing a big lead, a lot of positives tonight. Mobley with some big boy offense. Stevens doing DAWG things. Good JA night.
DG not great again.
The Dawg won this one
Stevens’ best game imo.
LAMAR STEVENS HUSTLE
Hooboy Lamar
GOOD DEFENSE DG CLAMP IT DOWN
Need one more basket
Allen from the dunker!
Better D at the 3 point line