Live Thread: Summer Cavs vs Summer Rockets
2023-07-17Summer League championship on the line! If you’ve watched this unexpected five game run by this scrappy Cavs squad, you know they’re a lot of fun. Dam Merrill was nabbed first team all summer league today with Emoni Bates making second team. Meanwhile, Isaiah Mobley was snubbed for all summer honors and looks to enact his vengeance against Houston’s Sam Whitmore (1st team) and Jabari Smit Jr. (2nd team). This should be a lot of fun as both these squads have been the best teams in Vegas by a big stretch.
Isiah has averaged 16/8/5 this summer and though Sharife Cooper will not play, I’m picking the Cavs.
New podcast up!
I MIGHT BE WRONG ——THE MRS NOMAD SAYS I AM QUITE OFTEN 🤪——BUT IT APPEARS WITH THE RECENT TRADES THE GAURDIANS ARE “ WAVING THE WHITE FLAG “ —— THOUGHTS—OPINIONS
I think it is kind of 50/50 — picked up a few prospects and can still back into the ALCD championship. Rosario for Syndergaard is a win. We all love Rosario because of the way he plays, but he wants a pile next year, and we have kids who are better. Civale for a top prospect is ??? There is a good chance Syndergaard will be as good for the remainder of this year. Bell for a top prospect is a steal. Fry and Gonzalez can DH at least as well as Bell and are a lot better on D.… Read more »
Mama…
https://twitter.com/AndrewMarchand/status/1686090736746315776?s=20
Gonna be wait and see on Doc Rivers, but could be a nice upgrade.
Hard to guess what ESPN will do. Their main person is Stephen A Smith, who is kind of the Ron Burgundy of sports.
I have zero patience for the talking heads (Steven A, Max Kellerman, Nick what’s his face, Cowherd, etc) that know nothing and can’t analyze the game. Bunch of hot air with no substance. Like listening to casual fans.
Compared to Stephen A, Max sounds reasonable.
Cowherd is much more knowledgeable than those two clowns, and also explains his thinking, which usually isn’t half bad. He also always thinks he is always right, and is kind of an arrogant asshole.
Highly recommended Chris Fedor’s podcast today. Special guest: Larry Nance Jr. Great dude. Fun listen. Hope he winds up back with the Cavs some day.
yup. LNJ would be a much better role-model dude than Kevin.
The NBA basically informed Pat Riley and the Heat to stop tampering.
https://twitter.com/TrueHoop/status/1684621802696257536?s=20
Does anyone know when the Cavs could offer Mitchell an extension? Now?
Think this off-season (3 years after initial contract).
Okay, so it’s probably already happened, and we just won’t hear any details because he hasn’t accepted it. Thanks.
no this NEXT off-season. he signed in 21, can’t offer until 24
Oh, gotcha.
I HEAR WHAT YOU ARE SAYING BUCKAROO—-VALID POINTS—–I JUST THINK WE ‘ ROLL IT OUT ANOTHER YEAR “—SEE IF OUR NEW AQUISITIONS / IMPROVED –MATURE SKILL LEVEL FROM ALOT OF PLAYERS—-EVAN / ICE / JG / EVEN RUBIO -IF HE CAN RETURN TO 2022 FORM—WADE / ETC—–IF NOT —STILL THINK WE CAN GET A DECENT RETURN FOR SPIDA——” HOPING THERE WOULD BE A BIDDING WAR ” FOR HIS SERVICES—–JUST MY THOUGHT ——-HOW IN THE HELL HAVE YOU BEEN BUCKAROO// SUMMER BEEN GOOD TO YOU ?
Agree with NOMAD 100%.
There is no way Mitchell has made up his mind after 1 year. He, like the FO, knew a deep run last year was unlikely. DG, Mobes, Ice,,& Wade have no PO experience. JA & LeVert a little. But the group has none. Bucks, Celts, and Heat are battle tested.
Internal growth from the core group, better chemistry with more time, and moves around the edges was always the play. No way we pull the plug after 1 year.
Now, if we choke again THIS year…..
agree.
and agree with the last point.
Low key I think what has to happen in the playoffs is that Garland and Mobley need to be the primary playmakers and Mitchell needs to get his as a finisher (or once those two have tilted the defense) vs an initiator. I don’t know that I’m saying spam DG/Evan pick and roll but I think that’s the best version of our offense if they can physically hold up. Also play with pace and movement. Don is just not a good enough passer to dominate the ball for the first ten seconds of the shot clock against playoff teams that… Read more »
i fully agree with the talking head who opined that mitchell will not sign an extension with the cavs, and accordingly, the cavs need to trade him immediately.. in addition, cavs will not contend next two years.. they played some roulette last year, it was a two-sided coin.. nice regular season.. sad collapse in the playoffs.. they can get a very nice haul for spida (picks and some starting caliber players).. then let the existing crew grow for several years.. 3 to 5 years down the road perhaps they contend as current league stars on strong teams enter their declines..
Sports, not Cavs, topic — the ongoing hazing story at Northwestern. Seems like there is plenty there. NU is in the Big 10, and a top rated school.
One would guess that this kind of stuff would be a lot worse in the South. Is this everywhere?
Any thoughts, or info?
Football culture is ass
what about the woman’s volleyball team? that is about as far from football as you can think of
It’s culturally ubiquitous, nothing regional, racial, or gender specific. Whenever you can get people off balance with drugs(especially drinking) lightly threaten them with repercussions if others don’t go along because they are underage or all ready breaking rules in some regard, or can get bounced off the team whatever, it’s easy to see how individuals can take advantage of slanted power positions and things can swing wildly from mildly amusing memory accentuated by a bad hangover to what the hell just happened and never speak of this to anyone ever territory. It’s not new nor is it going away, but… Read more »
Bronny James apparently suffered a cardiac arrest after a workout at USC. It sounds like he’s doing better and is out of the ICU.
poor kid. this is likely to be the end of his basketball dream. making it to the NBA was looking to be a long shot anyway.
He was a projected first rounder.
probably the first time in any sport where a player’s draft status improved because he could bring his dad with him.
I think it’s too early to speculate. Both Channing Frye and Jeff Green had heart issues and still had successful NBA careers.
there are “heart issues” and then there is cardiac arrest..
IDK, Hamlin is playing football again. We need more info. But the main thing is he is out of immediate danger.
right.
but I think Hamlin was a special situation, where a known once in a million event triggered it, as opposed to out of the blue.
I slightly worry that at his age, and being LBJ-jr all his life, that he will refuse to quit if he should.
JUST LOVE HOW THE “MEDIA TALKING HEADS “ CAN PREDICT THE FUTURE 🤪——-RIDE IT OUT—-ONLY BEEN 1YEAR ——BESIDES IT NOT LIKE WE WILL GET “ CHICKEN LIVER “ IN RETURN IF WE DO TRADE SPIDA—-COULD SEE QUITE A FEW TEAMS “ COMPETING “ FOR HIS SERVICES RAISING THE “ ANTE “ 👍
right. a lot of “talking heads” are Stephen A level clueless. at least Stephen A is entertaining, although I doubt if he is in on the joke.
Bontemp’s theory on Mitchell:
https://www.si.com/nba/2023/07/24/nba-insider-doesnt-see-any-chance-cleveland-cavaliers-donovan-mitchell-re-signs
I’ll be fine if the Cavs take their chances and ride it out, but I’d see what Brooklyn would offer.
pretty much my view. a bidding war would be nice
You basically have to wait to see this year though, because while the returns for elite shot creators are fine from a talent standpoint (two good wings and some draft assets for Kyrie on an expiring last year is the floor for DM) BUT we know the team struggles with only one shot creator. Trading Mitchell for guys requires you be comfortable with Mobley as an elite shot creator and playmaker for a big. That’s asking so much-and we already ask a ton of Evan. That said if you could do Donovan straight-ish up for another elite player (PG? Bridges?)… Read more »
I’m happy if they sell high. It’d be nice to get someone with a little more length to play the 2. Has there ever been a recent nba championship with a small backcourt to win a title?
Toronto, but Lowry an Van Vleet were beefy and they had Kawhi
Some good Cavs talk on Windhorst’s podcast the Hoop Collective today. Touch on Mitchell’s future and the roster construction (two non-shooting bigs, 2 undersized guards). Basically boil it down to what we all know already, it’s all going to come down on what Mobley develops in to. They mark him as one of the most fascinating players to watch this upcoming season.
Cavs talk starts around the 20 min mark on episode from 7/24 for anyone interested.
Knicks signing Dylan Windler to 2-way deal.
Good luck, my highly fragile man. Hope it works out for him
I read that the Clippers, Dubs, and Wolves currently lead the league with 8 guys who shot better than league average (36.1%) on 100+ 3PT attempts.
Last year, we had 5. Garland (41.0%, 412 3PTA), LeVert (39.2%, 324), Mitchell (38.5%, 635), Cedi (37.2%, 312), and, believe it or not, Okoro (36.3%, 171). Cedi is gone, but we added Niang (40.1%, 384).
Strus only shot 35% on 563 attempts & one of the worst shot quality in the association. Jerome shot 38.9% but only had 90 attempts. Merrill can absolutely shoot it, as can Bates. Wade was 35.4% last year on 127 attempts.
I feel confident that Jerome will get more attempts for us this year, and Strus will get higher quality looks (he shot 41.0% two years ago). That would put us at 7. 1 of Merrill, Wade, Bates, or a veteran “playable depth” guy (Green, Wood) hitting that milestone would put us at 8. Elite company.
I realize there is some wishing & hoping there. And IDK how our D hopds up, but I think we will have more shooting options this year. More willing shooters. More volume shooters. More quality shooters. Especially from the corners.
Two seven footers who can switch, defend wings, and protect the rim=a high floor on D.
Cavs v Nets in Paris this season. Jan. 11th.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/38035760/nets-cavaliers-play-regular-season-game-paris
https://twitter.com/NBACouchside/status/1681512654374879233?s=20
Merrill, Mobley top 25, CPJ and Bates top 150
Luke is near the bottom of this chart, but he had a very high +/- ??
Any opinions about DRE numbers?
It’s slanted heavily to usage and doesn’t care about +/-
PTS + .2*TRB + 1.7*STL + .535*BLK + .5*AST – .9*FGA – .35*FTA – 1.4*TOV
He did not have a high plus/minus, was actually worse among the rotation players.
Just checked ranked 9th out of 10 Cavs that played summer league, only beat out Fabian White.
Do you mean RAPM? Travers clearly had the best raw +/- on the team
that is what I thought
Sorry I meant point differential according to realgm.com
https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/summer/1/NBA-Summer-League/53/stats/Cleveland-Cavaliers/5/Advanced_Stats/All/ediff/All/desc/1/Summer_League
The Cavs’ offense stunk when he was on the floor, and the eye test certainly agreed with that.
*shrug* He’s still at least a year away and his stocks/fouls ratio was eye opening.
No question he can defend, but he’s not close on offense… nearly 20% turnover rate on zero usage.
don’t know why the “eDiff” stat is marked in orange, but Cedric Henderson Jr. is at least 3 times better than anyone else on the team.
not sure who he is.
Here, since you’re being deliberately obtuse, here’s how the qualified players rank.
https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/summer/1/NBA-Summer-League/53/stats/Cleveland-Cavaliers/5/Advanced_Stats/Qualified/ediff/All/desc/1/Summer_League
He’s Cedric Henderson’s kid.
I mostly agree on Travers needing more time to cook. But I wouldn’t completely disregard his outsized impact on +/-
I would, because it’s actually a mirage. He was benefiting from playing with better players in a role that maximized what he can do.
Luke passed the eye test for me. Almost hitting his head on the rim was a plus. He just needs to get his jumper dialed in.
Luke led the Cavs in minutes played in the final, coaches seem to like what he brings —
Of course they do, he defends incredibly well and doesn’t take away usage from better scorers. Especially in a setting like summer league, being a team player is super helpful.
Doesn’t change the fact he has no NBA offensive game to speak of. His passing, scoring, and decision making simply wasn’t good in SL to indicate that he has any chance to contribute this year to the team.
Yeah, I am on the hype train for the guy, but, it is indicitive that he wasn’t included in any actions on offense. I would love for him to fill some end of the bench roles, but that’s the ceiling I was seeing.
Yeah hopefully his offensive issues are all a matter of confidence and lack of chemistry, but I saw very little improvement since last year on that side of the ball. Helluva defender though.
Matt Goul: Mobley and Bates were back to back #49 picks.
we have seen that there is a chance that Bates could turn out to be really good. Here is the plan to make this more likely:
** send Bates to live with the Mobley family for a while. **
if you check out the MVP ceremony footage, you can tell at one glance that the Mobley parents don’t take no shit from the kids, which has no doubt contributed to the boy’s success. not too late for Bates.
Really impressive that Isaiah Mobley now has as many Finals MVPs as Steph Curry. What a day.
love it!
the DEFENDING CHAMPION Cleveland Cavaliers !
So who on this team out of the starters/regulars is not signed for this year’s upcoming season?
Merrill is signed to a non-guaranteed contract with the Cavs. Currently the 13th man.
Mobley, Bates, & Porter Jr. are our 3 two-way contracts.
Nance signed an exhibit 10 deal (I think it is called). IDK the time constraints on when it needs to be converted to a 2 way or it goes away.
Travers & Diop both play overseas, but the Cavs still retain their NBA rights, I believe. Though I am fuzzy on the rules for Euro stash guys. I think we retain their rights fir a year AFTER they state their intention to come over/are FAs.
Cooper is a FA.
BATES WILL BE SIMILAR TO DURANT IN THAT REGARD ——HOPEFULLY HIS GAME WILL ALSO BE SOMEWHAT SIMILAR 👍
I’d do backflips if he’s half as good as Ingram.
things are looking up
It’s all in the head with Bates… if his approach to the game is right, he can be as good as wants to be. He’s got ridiculous talent and no conscience shooting, just needs to stay focused on winning.
Yes a long way to go but there’s a lot to like in his game. Coaching and mentorship will go a long way, and fortunately I think the Cavs culture is conducive to young guys’ growth. Humbling experiences like what he had in college can sometimes be the best thing for these young fellas.
Yup… definitely get the sense he’s been humbled by what happened during his college years.
YEP BATES HAS THE “ MRS NOMAD SYNDROME “ —- CAN T PUT WEIGHT ON 👍👍👍👍👍😀😀😀😀😀——GETTING MY “ BROWNIE POINTS IN
THAT IS SOOOOOO COOL. THANKS NATE
LOCAL MEDIA HAS CAVS INTERESTED IN OUIBRE /. WOOD : GILES —— CAN WE AFFORD THEM —- DO WE EVEN WANT THEM
my guess is no.
We cannot afford them. That is pipe dream stuff. They’d have to essentially sign for vet min.
Giles, yes.
Giles is in our price range. I cannot see Wood going for that cheap.
Wood please
https://twitter.com/cavs/status/1681131858447437824?s=20
Mobley the deserved MVP.
From Fedor’s article, we are looking for “playable depth” but want to avoid the tax. Likely that means the 15th spot is open (only $3.3 belowthe tax).
I think Merrill makes the team as #13, even though he is non-guaranteed. That leaves one spot open. If we can’t find “playable depth” from a vet, I think Mobley has a shot. But most likely he stays 2-way.
LOVING IT ——ANY WAY WE CAN PUT 40 Lb of MUSCLE ON BATES FROM NOW UNTIL NOVEMBER—-KID SHOWED ALOT OF PROMISE THIS SUMMER ESPECIALLY DEFENSIVELY
No. But 10 might be doable. He’s gonna have to bust his ass to keep muscle on.
Lmfao they get a ring.
Mobley with a redemption game to get the MVP.
Mobley gets the MVP
2nd Championship in Cavs history!
Always feels good when the Cavs win .. we gotta enjoy the small wins.. feels good to watch Cavs basketball.
you bet I’m enjoying it!
I even love it when I get a “pull through” parking spot in a large crowded lot.
Lol.
Trophy time.
LET THE PARTY COMMENCE 👍👍👍———“ MORE BEER 🍺 PLEASE “ ——THANK YOU YOUNG CAVS FOR AN ENJOYABLE 10 DAYS
Woooooooo!!!!
Blocked by Nance
WHO IS THE FAN IN THE CHECKERBOARD CAVS FIT? SUMMER LEAGUE SIR CC SPIKE LEE???
let’s go Cavs!!!
That is a wrap.
Great SL.
Scrubs are in, Houston waiving the white flag! LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOO
25th 3 for Merril.. most since 2017 in SL.
ESPN saying Merrill is a contender for one of our 2 open roster slots, mot realizing he is one of the 13 guys signed already.
Be gentle with them Jason. It’s their SL too.
Hahaha lol
In the semifinal the otherwise jocular ESPN crew 2x unaware (presumably not briefed, blame the cuts) they were not in fact speaking speaking to “Cavs General Manager Koby Altman” — fortunately Cavs PBO Koby Altman kept it smooth
EARTH TO JB #2 – SAM MERRILL CAN SHOOT
Take your opportunity, young man!
GIVE AND GO CPJ AND MOBLEY FUNDAMENTAL BASKETBALL
TRAVERS TO MOBLEY! CPJ STOCK TO BATES FOR THE FOUL!!! CAVS ROLLING!
Travers
Fantastic feed.
Bates is going to get a lot of steals. Quick hands.
Seems to be in the right place an awful lot
White struggling in place of Mobley and Nance.
Houston capitalizing with Merrill sitting 😁
Bates two bad possessions, both times just should’ve shot the pull up, tried to dribble drive to nowhere.
ZAAAAY PROVING THEM ALL WRONG FOR KEEPING HIM OFF THE ALL STAR YEAM ———KEEP THAT “ CHIP ON YOUR SHOULDER “ —-IT HAS A GOOD LOOK 👍
Maybe they should wait until after the last game to vote for those teams?
WHAT A PASS BATES
GREAT CUT BOTHWELL
I really impressed with his game speed.
24 apiece for Mobley & Merrill. Bates 15. Cavs up 20.
LIKE SOMEONE POSTED EARLIER——-COACH BATES HARD WITH ALOT OF SUPPORT /POSITIVE FEEDBACK—THIS KID HAS TALENT
TALK TO EM NOMAD!