Live Thread: Pistons @ Cavs
2024-01-31Good evening CtB!
The Cavs welcome Central Division opponent the Detroit Pistons to the shores of Lake Erie for a proverbial trap game for the good guys. The Cavs just came off of beating one of the hottest teams in the Association in the Los Angeles Clippers. Evan Mobley performed satisfactorily in his first game back, and it should be expected that he’ll drastically improve as the rust shakes off. Darius Garland is rumored to be back as well, and the Pistons are the perfect opponent to ease him back into the rotation as well. With an easy schedule ahead, this is the time where the Cavs have to make a run for playoff positioning now that we’re halfway through the season.
FROM THE LIVE THREADS:
Resident CtB shooting coach NOMAD poses an interesting question here, which guy should the Cavs dangle? The correct answer is both. But if it’s between the two, Isaac Okoro is the clear and obvious choice, especially if doing damage in this year’s playoffs is the goal. Okoro is strictly a defensive specialist with zero offensive game to speak of, and over the course of 7,000 NBA minutes played, his production has remained static over the course of his entire career.
On the flip side, Okoro’s age might trick some team into believing in his upside. But as long as the Cavs have guys such as Donovan Mitchell, Darius Garland, Evan Mobley, and Jarrett Allen, the opportunities for growth simply won’t be there for Ice. To his credit, Okoro’s been the ultimate team player, sacrificing his individual production for team success. That can’t be underestimated, given how hard it is to find players with that kind of mature mentality.
WHO ARE THE TRADE PIECES?
If the Cavs should make a move, who are the tradeable pieces? The quick and dirty answer is anyone outside of the core four. However, given the performances so far of Max Strus, Dean Wade, and Sam Merrill there’s no way their trade value would exceed their production. That would leave Caris LeVert, Georges Niang, and the aforementioned Okoro. The problem with trading any of this trio is again the limited value they have out on the market. The Cavs will need NBA veterans to do any damage in the playoffs, and in spite of their subpar regular season production, Niang and LeVert have the playoff experience that will be necessary to elevate the younger players come playoff time. With Okoro, he’s an “innings eater” that saves regular season wear and tear on the star players. Part of the benefit of Okoro is his ability to be physical and stay healthy over the course of the marathon that is the NBA regular season. Sprinkle in the recent success of the Cavs, and it’s easy to argue why the Cavs ought to stay put unless there’s an offer they can’t refuse.
YOU ARE FAKE NEWS
Yours truly is reticent to respond to troll posts such as these, but since this poster hasn’t been banned yet allow me to set the record straight. As the chief Caris LeVert supporter of this blog, it’s precisely because of LeVert’s versatility that I prefer to keep him over say a one-way only player such as Okoro. This poster also clearly underestimates the obvious versatility of players such as Dean Wade, who does everything better on a basketball court than Niang, or a Sam Merrill who does many things better on a basketball court than Isaac Okoro. If any of these players lack versatility, it’s Niang and Okoro. Niang is an offense only player who cannot defend multiple positions like Wade does, does not score as efficiently as Wade does, and does not even playmake better than Wade does (Wade assist ratio 14.0, Niang’s 11.9, which is worst on the team this season).
The same story goes when comparing Merrill to a defense only player such as Okoro. Merrill scores more efficiently on significantly higher usage than Okoro. Merrill is a better defensive rebounder, better playmaker who takes care of the ball better, and has the most charges drawn this season on the team in spite of playing less than 75% of the games Okoro has. Now Okoro clearly is a more versatile perimeter defender, but I’d argue it doesn’t result in more team success given the Cavs’ defensive ratings with each player (Cavs’ drtg with Merrill 109.5, with Okoro 109.2). Merrill’s offensive versatility far outweighs what Okoro brings on the defensive end so far this season, and what’s the point in Tower City if Coach JB Bickerstaff won’t surround them with dead eye shooters with Steph Curry-like production from three?
Unfortunately for some, feelings get in the way of objective analysis, and worse, the attempt to slander the good folks at CtB sucks the fun out of banter. Such is life on the internet. Back to the day job and school for yours truly…
Tip off is scheduled for 7:00PM Eastern time and will be broadcasted live on Bally Sports Ohio, Go Cavs!
LT up
Cavs 9.5 point favorites tonight.
THANKS JASON——- CAVS CANT “ LET THEIR GAURD DOWN “ EACH WIN / LOSS IS. MEANINGFUL IN PLAYOFF POSITIONING!!
right. tonight is a big game!
Although we have it easy by winning PCT, schedule wise, there are 4 back to backs in Feb including a 5 in 7 stretch..
1st b2b is tonight.
yikes! I don’t recall any past 5 in 7’s.
Cavs have easiest Feb schedule in the association.
https://www.nba.com/news/february-2024-strength-of-schedule
YOU GOT IT RAOUL ———- TIME FOR SOME…… “ MORE BEER PLEASE——ON ME “ —- TIME TO CHILL—— IT WAS REMINDING ME OF “ THE “ MRS NOMAD s AND MINE MORNING CONVERSATIONS———SHE NORMALLY INITIATES WITH—“ YOU ARE SO WEIRD—-BE QUIET—PASS THE COFFEE—-MAKE SURE YOU WORK ON THE HONEY DO LIST “ 👍🤪👍🤪👍🤪🍺🍺🍺🍺——- MAN I LOVE THAT WOMAN 👍👍👍
WATCHED REPLAY/-AGREE STRUS NEEDS A BREAK—- RAOUL —AGREE—I WAS TOO HARSH ON ATTACKING MOBES 3 PT SHOOTING—- AGREE IT WILL TAKE JB / PLAYERS TIME TO FIGURE OUT ROTATIONS/ COMFORT LEVEL— AGREE “THE “ MRS NOMAD IS MARRIED TO THE PERFECT HUSBAND 👍🤪🍺
Pacers play the Knicks tonight. Go Pacers!
agree!
Just for kicks, I’d like to see JB have two separate units. Squad A and Squad A’
Squad A: DM, Okoro, Strus, Wade, JA (i.e. starting lineup during this recent tear).
Squad A’: DG, Mobley, Niang, Merrill, LeVert
Subs: CPJ, Jones
Agreed but JB will never do this.
Go to Pittsburgh if you want to see a hockey game lol
Just for kicks.
Can we send you to Pittsburgh? Or Russia?
please do. i have conditions tho. the minute you abandon your dumb “Korby” takes about COTY JB and a front office that has been kicking fucking ass by adding All-NBA players AND getting rotation players out of the G League for nothing AND has a top wing prospect on the horizon AND has no starters older than 27… and apologize for being wrong about my son Allen…(it’s OK to be a bread loaf and think no dribble Dean is a great basketball player as opposed to a really good specialist, that’s acceptable and reasonable but wrong) …I’ll be on the… Read more »
NOMAD sez break it up you guys or he is giving everyone a time out!
Thanks for flexing on the regular season. I also haven’t said a word about JB or Koby in the past couple of months but please release that pent up rage 🤡! I’ve also been pretty high on JA so that must be targeted towards someone else. I’ve also been complimentary about the support from the G league.
Do me a favor quit responding to my posts and I’ll do the same with you, so we can keep this beach community clean .
Rule #1: Don’t feed the troll, Arch!
Good point. Thanks for the reminder.
um, …, who is the troll here?
you know ball raoul. Others are…
agree that would be a fun idea that I have often thought about. but zero coaches ever do it, and there is probably a reason for that. I do recall one instance when (unfortuantely) it worked: I was at a Cavs/Rockets game when they had Hakeem Olajuwon. The Cavs had a nice lead early in the second half, and the Rocket’s coach pulled the starters and set them on the end of the bench. The other guys were gung ho and got the lead down to a couple late. then with a couple minutes to go, he put the starters… Read more »
I think that one huge flaw with this idea is that in playoff time, at the end of the game, you need your best players on the court and they need to play well together (otherwise, the coach would get fired, right?) It’s been great to see DM modify his approach and distribute the ball more. I think he saw CPJ doing that and was like “hey, not bad.” Having a lot of talented players ain’t a bad thing. I’m looking forward to seeing it all fit together.
I think this will be the most used lineups. But the core 4 lineup will start the 1st and 2nd halves, then dg and Mobley will sub out for Wade and Okoro. Then Niang, Merrill, LeVert for the other three.
Bucks lose in Portland. Only Boston has fewer losses than us.
Embiid is having his knee evaluated Thur and the Bucks are a mess. NY & the Cavs are 2 & 3 in the east right now in my book, if not quite in the standings. Yet.
Exactly what I was thinking!
NYK has some issues (Randle out weeks, Grimes and Anunoby might be out for a bit — go Pacers!
Cavs might be in second place this week!
I like the 2/3 matchups. Indiana / Miami / Orlando all look like food to me.
In the East.
Mobley for Keegan Murray – who says no?
That dude can’t score as much as Mobley even on Sacto’s offense and he’s shooting 36% from 3.
Plus he’s older than Ev!
You should be ashamed
At least I’m not a kleptomaniac. You should be ashamed.
hey! Teal is a nice color!
you might enjoy KingJamesGospel; they love proposing ludicrous trades.
Seems like a perfect new home for you!
Yeah man. The scout has really caught up to Keegan, who I like.
Me.
Keegan and Huerter kind of suck this year (though of course they vaporized us with Domas providing massive rim pressure)
Niang five assists! Wade five dribbles and a TO
This was a weird game. Glad and Mobley and Garland have returned, but it’s going become annoying because everything they do is going to be heavily scrutinized.
They just need time playing together and be ready come playoff time – which I think they will be. Mitchell had a career year last season playing with Garland, I’m not too concerned about the pairing.
STRUD / SPIDA “ DISCUSSION “ IS SOMEWHAT WORRISOME———CAN SEE NEITHER ONE BACKING DOWN———- I CAN SEE MOBES / DG PLAYING 15 —20 MINUTES TOMORROW——NOT WANTING TO RISK INJURY BUT GET THEM ACCLIMATED QUICKLY/ ALSO GIVE COACHES MORE OPPORTUNITIES TO SEE / WORK ON ROTATIONS
Strus is having a bad few weeks. Complaining and hacking and bricking.
Give him tomorrow off.
He needs it. LeVert, Okoro, Wade, Merrill, and CPJ can absorb those minutes.
I know JB probably wants to try out differentvconbos now that he finally has all the oueces back, but if one guy’s tank is on empty, whatcare you learning?
agree, although doing something different is not JB’s strong point.
they will probably get over it. I’ve seen many near fights during games, and then the participants are laughing it up at drinking fountain right afterwards.
Yeah didn’t seem like a fight – an intense discussion with neither taking a backwards step. Didn’t seem personal. Proud, intelligent players disagreeing – nothing wrong with that..
Probably the first time I’ve seen Spida drop the cool, professional demeanour and look like he really gave a crap. I’m trying to figure out if this is a good or bad sign.
What a narrative this season is shaping up to be. Just listened to hoop collective podcast where windhorst, a great homer, was soliliquizing on how cavs could grab the 2 seed this year with our guys coming off of injury. And, there’s certainly a case to be made on paper. But, there also a reason this bunch played much better to the eye and record wise when we had them out. Now, much rather have garland and Mobley than not, of course, but those early season struggles are still there to be worked through. We got a good chuck of… Read more »
It really is going to take a lot of games together to sync up and play with pace especially since DG and Mobley haven’t played much that way as pros
true, but the Cavs got a decent chance of grabbing the 2 EC seed. they could also fall apart, but I doubt it.
as someone said: there is a reason why they play the games!
A lot of our best spells last year were when we were down a core four piece. That 9-1 start, for instance.
It makes things simpler to lose DG or DM but lowers the ceiling because it takes away the ability to play multiple styles.
We just have a bit of an identity issue with the core 4 but that seems natural 1.5 years into a reconstruction.
I wonder if DG/Mobes will sit tomorrow since it’s on a B2B?
STRUS PISSED WITH HIS PERFORMANCE OR AT JB / NOT PLAYING??
I noticed Spida looking annoyed, shaking his head as they went into a timeout. Then saw Strus and he having a passionate discussion about something. Didn’t look like they reached agreement either.
THERE IS NO EFFIING WAY TRAE SHOULD BE MENTIONED IN THE SAME SENTENCE AS SPIDA AS ALL STAR CANDIDATES ———- 1 IS LEGIT——— THE OTHER A LOSER
same. 100%!
HAVE TO REMEMBER THESE PISTONS JUST BEAT OKC BY ABOUT 20 ————LETTING PISTON S SHOOT 50% FROM 3s IS ALARMING
Cade hit some wild ones. We let Bogi and Gallo get loose, which was not good and an execution error, but tip your cap. Should have been about high 30s which is still bad but we’d have had a double digit win
and, they are finally starting to jell, and this is a really big game for them
WILL WATCH REPLAY——-VIEWING THE POSTS / SOUNDS LIKE JB HAS A CHALLENGE FIGURING OUT COMPETITIVE ROTATIONS——— LIKE NATE POSTED / AM SOMEWHAT DISAPPOINTED MOBES DIDNT IMPROVE ON HIS 3PT SHOT / AM PROBABLY A LITTLE HARSH AS THIS IS ONLY HIS 2ND GAME BACK
and you can’t work on your shot when a knee is bad. maybe DG was able to work on hs shot.
I’m not sure I’d offer Mobley a max deal. But some team will and force our hand.
I got no problem doing it. I just don’t think Garland and Mitchell work.
If Mitchell can be extended, I’d trade Garland. They just don’t have a compatible style.
Was just thinking this. Agreed.
Yeah,that becomes clearer the more you watch them …Both great,just not together.
Crazy talk. He’s a max player.
100% agree. EM is 22. seven footers usually hit their stride a lot later then this.
Some graphics from the Bally broadcast..
Guard play in the east is pretty even between these 4. Based on injuries and record, I would say Mitchell and Brunson.
Oh eff that. Trae is garbage. Literally worst defensive player in league. He’s a huge reason his team can’t win.
https://ak-static.cms.nba.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/46/2024/01/2024-Eastern-Conference-Guard-Starters-01262024.pdf
What we call home court advantage.
on a pace to catch LBJ in about three years.
Switched to ABC game. Ye gods these Nets unis.
I’d burn that film. Weird vibes. Takeaways: Garland has to play faster and move the ball. Cavs have to figure out the floor balance with the starters. Mobley did not spend time away working on his J. Mitchell can win you a game by himself. Allen is an awesome finisher. JB has to figure out minutes for Merrill in the second half. Max needs a break.
Agreed. Good word Nate! I would mix the bench more. Ice+ Niang. Wade + Merrill. Offense with Defense
Yeah this was a little disjointed. I liked DGs shot selection and I didn’t think he tried to be too cute. Plus he generated great looks.
But just weird. getting those early points helped and he really got whatever he wanted. At some point in the next few weeks he’ll be the guy who wins us some games
Mobley is looking great. Want to see more.
Agreed. I think we shouod expect some re-integtation issues. We were 13-12 when Mobes & DG went out, and that was with Strus playing out of his mind. We looked more like that 13-12 team tonight rather than 14-4 one since.
I feel like we are going back to where we were and I’m not convinced the core 4 can play together.
Agreed.
You probably need 40 games together with a decent SF to make that call.
Starting lineup has played together (so you have Strus who is huge) for 12 games and for 4 someone has been on a minutes restriction.
Agree, other than that Mobley wasn’t “away”, he was rehabbing a knee. You want him working on one legged jumpers?
Phew, nice win — great showing from Mitchell and Allen. Agree with Nate that Strus looks beat and should take a night off.
Pistons a LOT better with vets playing and not the same terrible team as earlier in the year.
Could have lost it. Cavs put the clamps on.
right. did what had to be done at the end. that makes a winning team.
There is some offensive talent there. Bogey & Burks. Cade. I like Duren & Thompson. Gallinari can still score. Ivey is super athletic.
The young guys are still learning how to win, though.
Ivey was AWFUL
I do like Duren a big PG like Cade and big shooty 4s.
Teams that go ALL young really struggle. You need a mix. Look at Houston with Van Vleet & Brooks.
Soooo…Mitchell’s 45 felt…quiet?
Is Jarrett Jack coaching with the Pistons?
Yes.
45 for 45
good eye!
That should do it
Jarrett Allen moving some people around tonight.Good to see him being physical.
Yup. And Duren is a LOAD
As you get older, you don’t get more athletic, but you should get stronger and tougher. JA is our second best player, and he can get a lot better.
I could be totally off, but it feels like we are worse at defending the 3 with the core 4, despite being elite defensively.
Well, Mobes & Allen are elite under the basket,,not defending guards on the perimeter.
DG & Mitchell are not great defenders.
They’ve been pretty good. You can shoot over DG but his rotations are usually ok if he doesn’t die on a screen
the core 4 are NOT elite defensively with DG in there.
Hope I did not jinx us there. Knock on wood! Knock on wood!
42-6-8 with 2 steals & a block. Only 2 TOs. 14/25 FHs. 6/13 triples.
45 pts – 14-25 Fg, 6-13 3pt, 11-12 FT. Mitchell scored 20 of the Cavs 32 points in the 4th.
4th quarter
6-10 FG
2-4 3PT
6-6 FT
Amazing contest by Okoro but great shot by Cade
All Michell tonight.
Cade whiffed (thankfully) that easy layup.
We don’t ask how we ask how many
HELLO THREE SEED
Big stop by Strus
Shut me up, Max!
We are 20-21 on FTs. Needed all of them. I think Spida missed the first one. 20 in a row?
One more stop and a bucket. No 3s for Pistons
LFG!
The TO battle is why we are up. Pistons shooting better from the field and from 3 and +1 on the glass.
Need a stop and a bucket!
Just win the last 70 seconds.
exactly, one more stop and score should do it.
Up 4. Wanted Spida to sing them a lullaby there, but no dice.
Get a stop!