Before Emergence (Part 2)
2012-03-08On Tuesday, I pulled the camera lens back a bit on Tristan Thompson’s burgeoning NBA career. While I think it’s important to keep a broad perspective when assessing young players, we should also take a look at TT’s game in more practical terms.
The table below shows some numbers from the rookie seasons of players with Thompson-like skill sets. It’s a series of imperfect comparisons. Obviously, Thompson is a better athlete than Anderson Varejao, Jordan Hill is more of a center than a power forward, etc. It’s difficult to find a player exactly like Thompson, so I included a broad range of players. I think putting Thompson side-by-side with these somewhat similar players gives us some insight into his rookie season through 31 games.
Name | Age | MPG | FG% | TS% | PPG | TR% | BLK% | PFG | PER |
T. Thompson | 20 | 19.8 | 41.9 | 43.8 | 6.9 | 16.8 | 4.4 | 1.9 | 13.3 |
Joakim Noah | 22 | 20.7 | 48.2 | 53.9 | 6.6 | 15.3 | 3.3 | 2.3 | 15.5 |
Serge Ibaka | 20 | 18.1 | 54.3 | 56.2 | 6.3 | 17.2 | 5.5 | 2.7 | 15.2 |
A. Varejao | 22 | 16 | 51.3 | 53.4 | 4.9 | 17.6 | 3.3 | 2.3 | 17 |
Tyrus Thomas | 20 | 13.4 | 47.5 | 52.1 | 5.2 | 15.9 | 6.2 | 2.3 | 14.8 |
Jordan Hill | 22 | 13.3 | 49.3 | 52.8 | 5.2 | 16 | 2.5 | 2 | 15 |
Derrick Favors | 19 | 19.7 | 51.7 | 54.2 | 6.8 | 16 | 3.5 | 3.2 | 13.9 |
I’m hesitant to make too many claims based on the statistics of rookies who spent more time on the bench than on the court, but the numbers illuminate a few things. In a couple of places, we can see where a player had an NBA-ready skill in their rookie season. Serge Ibaka’s block percentage and Anderson Varejao’s rebound percentage illustrate that, even as overmatched rookies, they did one thing incredibly well. (And Tyrus Thomas, who is not particularly great at blocking shots, takes a blowtorch to this premise, but let’s chalk that up to him being Tyrus Thomas.) Thompson, like Varejao and Ibaka, has a terrific rebounding percentage, which bodes well for his ability to grab double-digit boards once he’s given sufficient playing time.
Another more obvious takeaway from this statistical comparison is that none of these rookies (some now quite good NBA players) were particularly effective. The highest PER is from Varejao, and he was a 22 year-old rook. We tend to overlook this simple fact when we talk about first-year players, I think because the majority of the dialogue about rookies tends to revolve around the handful of players vying for Rookie of the Year honors. But most first-year players don’t adjust well to the NBA game. They’re either ineffectual or overmatched. Thompson has vacillated between the two, and the statistics show he’s in good company. It’s unfair to Thompson that he was drafted three slots behind a spectacular scorer like Kyrie Irving. We’ve seen from the performances of last year’s draft class that the drop-off between Irving and everyone else is steep. While Irving is carving up defenses, the rest of the league’s rookies have shown flashes of potential followed by extended slumps. Irving’s only Rookie of the Year competition is coming from Ricky Rubio, who was drafted three years ago. Thompson was drafted in the top five, but it would be generous to consider him a conventional top five talent, especially considering how many of Thompson’s peers elected to stay in college another year due to the lockout.
What should concern Cavs fans is that Thompson has no offensive game. This is apparent when you watch him play, and the numbers reflect this reality. Merging observations with statistics, Thompson’s exceedingly low shooting percentages are the product of the times he receives the ball in a stationary position. I don’t know why he demands or receives the ball in these situations. When he’s not receiving the ball on a cut or off of a rebound, Thompson is forced to utilize his paltry offensive arsenal. In face-up situations, he often tries to use his quickness to get around his man, but because the defender doesn’t have to respect his jumper, Thompson’s quickness is rendered ineffective, and he ends up barreling into his defender’s chest. TT’s back to the basket game seems at this point to consist solely of a running hook fired at about a six degree angle. He doesn’t often get to the free throw line in one-on-one situations (he was quite good at drawing fouls in college), and even if he did, he shoots just 47.3% from the stripe.
I think what we’re seeing from Thompson is a player who is adjusting to the superior athleticism of the NBA. In college, he was often the most athletic big man on the floor by a wide margin, and he could use his athletic advantage to get around opponents and draw fouls. He’s still a freak by NBA standards, but the gap between Thompson’s athleticism and the athleticism of the average forward defending him has lessened. Plus, NBA competition plays him more intelligently. Why press a guy who can’t shoot when he’s standing 12 feet from the basket? NBA defenders take an extra half-step off Thompson so they can better react to his inevitable move toward the basket.
The obvious solution to this problem is for TT to develop a reliable 14-footer or a couple of post moves (athletic as he is, shouldn’t he be able to hone a good up-and-under?) that defenders need to respect. I’m reading intentions here, but either Chris Grant and co. thought Thompson was capable of improving offensively or they thought he was going to be so devastatingly effective on the boards and the defensive end that any offensive improvement would be a bonus. I have to believe the Cavalier front office was thinking Thompson would figure it out on the offensive end, in part because the reason a lot of the advanced metrics guys loved Thompson coming out of the draft was because of his ability to score the ball efficiently, and it’s not like he was a dominant defensive force in college. As his game is currently constituted, Thompson can score efficiently, but that means never giving him the ball on the block or elbow. He can probably put up six to eight points per game on rebounds and dunks, but unless he becomes Josh Smith on the defensive end, that’s a disappointing future for a guy who’s supposed to be a fixture in the starting lineup over the next half-decade plus.
I keep returning to the unknowability of Tristan Thompson. If this article were written in a more stream-of-consciousness style, every third sentence would be “I dunno.” But I just can’t figure him out. Or more accurately: I can’t figure out how he becomes better a lot better than he is right now. When we talk about prospects, we often talk about their potential to develop into a better shooter/passer/rebounder/etc. For example, Kyrie Irving’s assist totals don’t jump off the page, but once or twice a game he makes a terrific pass, so there’s hope that as his understanding of the NBA game improves in concert with his teammates, he can eventually average seven to nine dimes a game. Thompson’s potential to develop a specific area of his game isn’t as apparent. He’s a tremendous athlete who tries very hard, but it’s difficult to discern his nascent skills aside from his knack for pulling down offensive boards. Cavalier fans can dream of him developing a LaMarcus Aldridge-like baseline jumper, but I don’t see the ingredients for that shot.
I think we’re going to learn a lot about Thompson at the outset of next season. Not that he’s suddenly going to turn into Pau Gasol, but if he’s as committed to working hard as the Cavaliers believe he is, he’ll lock himself in the gym this summer until he comes up with some semblance of an offensive game. Until then, drink in the athleticism and grit your teeth every time he catches and faces from 13 feet.
Obviosly drafting Chris Anderson orNick Collison with the fourth overall pick is a disappointment and I hope we get more out of Tristan than that, but we could be stuck with much worse.
People need to calm down. This trade deadline is going to have nothing but very pedestrian deals for the cavs, if any at all. We need to get younger, acquire more draft picks, and maybe even an ugly contract we can flip when it expires in a year or two. We have no business talking about trades for Atlanta’s star level players. They need a change to inspire a playoff push (like a Monta Ellis for Josh Smith change,) not a blow it up and rebuild from sratch change. Atlanta doesn’t want what we’re selling and we shouldn’t want what… Read more »
@ James
“No way the Cavs agree to any deal with the Hawks that involves Joe Johnson because the Cavs would have to send both Varejao and Thompson to make the numbers work.”
Are you sure? Not that I would want to do this, but I think this works:
Smith + Johnson = 30.4 mil
Jamison + TT + Gibson + Hollins = 25.6 mil
By the way, if you haven’t yet, you should really check this out:
http://www.82games.com/1112/CSORT11.HTM
It contains the “clutch” stats for this season, according to 82games.com. For the purposes of those stats, clutch is defined as the last five minutes of the 4th quarter or overtime, with neither team leading by more than five. Guess who is third in scoring behind only Carmelo Anthony and Kevin Durant? Kyrie.
I just hope Chris Grant and Co. are exploring every option because the Cavs seem to be an ideal trading partner at the deadline, especially in multi-team deals, because the Cavs have no bad contracts and a ton of cap space. Seems like we should be able to take advantage of a team looking to acquire Howard, Gasol, or one of Boston’s players.
No way the Cavs agree to any deal with the Hawks that involves Joe Johnson because the Cavs would have to send both Varejao and Thompson to make the numbers work.
I’m not so sure that the Hawks would even insist on including Johnson. In the deal proposed above, the Hawks get out of Williams’ awful contract and finally get to move on from the Josh Smith era, which it sounds like they are ready to do.
No way Cavs would trade with the Hawks if they had to take back Johnson because they would have to include Varejao and Thompson to make the numbers work. However, I’m not so sure the Hawks would be that forceful about including Johnson. They would still get out of Williams awful contract and it sounds like the Hawks are finally ready to move on from the Josh Smith era. Having said that, I just hope that Chris Grant is able to make something happen before the deadline. With so many marquee free agents becoming available this offseason, it seems like… Read more »
If the Hawks would agree to Jamison and TT for Smith and Williams, I think the Cavs would take it, and rightfully so. But most likely the Cavs would have to take Johnson, instead of Williams. They could pull it off. But that is huge contract to take back and Johnson is 30. Highly doubt they want to do that.
By the way, is there anything better than coming up with trades using the Trade Machine? It is AWESOME. I couldn’t care less if any of my proposed trades have any chance of coming to fruition. Just a great way to waste time at work.
Here is another I came up with:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7w6ejv5
Cavs would also send a future draft pick to Orlando.
I’d take that deal, however, I’m betting that the Sixers think they could do better. Sadly, I think we’d have to throw in a draft pick to grease the wheels.
I’d make that deal, but honestly, I think it would just turn us into “hawks north.” And we’d be the first team out of the playoffs every year. What about this trade? Basically, TT for Evan Turner (who needs a new home).
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=73696qp
Today in his trade value column, Simmons posited a hypothetical deal between the Cavs and Hawks that would involve sending Jamison to the Hawks for Smith and Williams. Ultimately, Simmons thought the Hawks would say no (he is right), but what if the Cavs threw in Tristan? I’d make that deal. Hawks would seriously have to think about it.
I agree alex that if he stopped barreling his way to the hoop so often from the block his shooting % would boost up immediately, but I don’t mind at all seeing him do it. Its a learning process, he can feel out the game, and hopefully try some new moves. That is what I fear actually though, is that he’s doing it without really trying anything new. Well, its a rookie season in which we are looking to draft high again next year, so he should feel free to get as much a feel for the NBA as possible,… Read more »
I agree alex that if he stopped barreling his way to the hoop so often from the block his shooting % would boost up immediately, but I don’t mind at all seeing him do it. Its a learning process, he can feel out the game, and hopefully try some new moves. That is what I fear actually though, is that he’s doing it without really trying anything new. Well, its a rookie season in which we are looking to draft high again next year, so he should feel free to get as much a feel for the NBA as possible,… Read more »
I agree alex that if he stopped barreling his way to the hoop so often from the block his shooting % would boost up immediately, but I don’t mind at all seeing him do it. Its a learning process, he can feel out the game, and hopefully try some new moves. That is what I fear actually though, is that he’s doing it without really trying anything new. Well, its a rookie season in which we are looking to draft high again next year, so he should feel free to get as much a feel for the NBA as possible,… Read more »
I just had this horrible image… TT ending up being more like DeSagana Diop than anyone else on that list…
Look at where he’s holding that ball in the picture above. It’s too far away from his body and looks like he’s about to shoot a dart.
He needs to put some arch and touch on that shot. He did put up 20 earlier this year though and looked like a beast doing it (pretty much all around the rim). I don’t see him developing into a multi-tooled offensive player though. He’s gonna be a defensive/rebounding beast, which is what he was drafted for, and anything more is an added bonus. After watching some mediocre defense this year I’m gonna enjoy seeing him get some more minutes and help turn around the D
Hahaha, Aldridge has a fantastic jumper that TT will never come close to achieving that. Might as well hope Gee develops into LeBron James if people are dreaming on that level.
Ibaka and Varejao are the models we hope TT develops into.
I think this is about as accurate of an analysis as one can give on Thompson. The scary thought, to me, is envisioning a frontcourt of Varejao and Thompson that will be extremely challenged in creating their own shots offensively. I agree that a summer of work will be good to re-evaluate Thompson’s ability to progress, but watching his wild beelines to the rack and history of poor shooting leave me feeling apprehensive about the future…especially given the offensive skills of the other bigs on our current roster.
Some semblance of a midrange jump shot would go a long way to improving his percentages. Also, it appears that he is more liberal with his shot selection than many of the other rookies he is being compared to. TT is shooting about .328 shots per minute, while rookie versions of Noah (.242), Ibaka (.282), Favors (.251), and Andy (.225) shot considerably less per minute. Simply being smarter with his shots should significantly improve his TS%. If he improves in those two areas, he could be a cog in a great frontcourt rotation.
Regarding Kyrie’s passing, I’m impressed a lot of the time. The quality of shooters and finishers around him really inhibits his assist totals. The age, assists per 36 minutes, and team wins from the rookie season of this year’s five top assist players (plus Kyrie) are: Deron Williams – 21, 5.6, 41 Chris Paul – 20, 7.8, 38 Jose Calderon – 24, 7.0, 27 Rajon Rondo – 20, 5.8, 24 Steve Nash – 22, 7.3, 40 (nash didn’t surpass 7.3 assists per 36 until his 5th season) Kyrie Irving – 19, 6.0, 31 (wins prorated to an 82 game season)… Read more »
I think Thompson will be a solid defensive forward and a really good rebounder. He’ll probably never be extremely effective offensively. Last summer I posted a series that was really an off-season space filler, but in the Luke Harangody piece I discussed his extremely low TS%. https://cavstheblog.com//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////?p=5884 Below 46% true shooting was relatively rare from a power forward (under 3 players a season). Of the 10 seasons I looked at, the best player that any young power forward below that threshold ever progressed to was Kris Humphries or Tyler Hansbrough. Players that have a season when they struggle that significantly… Read more »
My only question/concern is that if TT is such a hard worker, then what was he working hard on before his pro career? You should have some basic post up moves, short jumpers, and free throws by the time you are 20 years old. Here is to hoping he is a relatively late bloomer (fingers crossed).