A Friendly Post-Lottery Chat
2013-05-21Colin: The Draft Lottery itself is a spectacle to behold. Or not behold, exactly, but mock? I feel like it should be mockable—unintentionally doofy, at least—but it’s mostly just drab television, what with its suspense being driven by its inherent drama and absolutely nothing else. It’s mostly a bummer, and really, if your team isn’t involved, you’re the saddest sort of NBA obsessive.
Heather Cox awkwardly explains that the Draft Lottery, you see, is a game of probability, thus explaining to the American public what a lottery is while pretending that literally every American over the age of 12 doesn’t know exactly what a lottery is and how it works. This is not Heather Cox’s fault at all, just the nature of the beast. She has to smile and talk needlessly through a half-hour of television, of which anyone watching only cares about, give or take, 45 seconds.
But anyway, a room full of uncomfortable, uncharismatic old men sit alongside wholly unenthused young players do a soft-shoe if Cox tries to engage them. “Boy howdy, Holly, I hope we win!” is maybe the only acceptable answer one can give in this scenario, and so all we get are variations thereof, save for the part where Damian Lillard talks about being really good at basketball in a strange, humble way, like the kind-of-terrible Blazers were doing him a favor playing him 39 minutes a game, as if he was stealing minutes from a 25-year-old Isaiah Thomas. Maybe these interviews would be less weird if the interviewer and subject weren’t separated by a podium? They would probably still be weird.
Also, the Gilbert family bowtie thing is stupid, despite its apparent mystical powers. But none of the above stuff is actually important. Nate, Nerlens Noel or NERLENS NOEL!!! or Nerlens Noel? Or perhaps you’re a Ben McLemore fan? (I know you’re not.) Give us some sense of your enthusiasm level.
Nate: It was definitely a strange dynamic, as it always is. The Lottery is a collection of old executives, players whose teams want to appease or showcase them, coaches who’d rather be somewhere else, and Adam Silver who looks like he just stepped out of a flying saucer. What a strange-looking man. And then there’s Nick Gilbert: the human horseshoe. There’s something very refreshing about him. Yeah, he’s a rich guy’s kid, but by all accounts he’s had a pretty rough go of it. Yet he always seems to exude positivity and smiles. I’m probably grafting an emotional response onto a positive memory, but I just can’t help but like Nick Gilbert.
But yeah, Nerlens Noel! I am much more excited than I thought I’d be. Most of you guys don’t live in the Cleveland area. I’m pleased we Clevelanders are going to be talking about it around the water cooler for the next few weeks. The Cavs have some juice, the Indians are winning, the weather is lovely. All seems right with the world. And Nerlens Noel is an intriguing prospect. Calipari seems to coach big men to block shots to teammates rather than into the third row like Dwight or Serge. I’m eager to see Noel in a Cavs uniform in 9 months. What about you, Colin? Did you think this was possible? No one I know seems to have been able to fathom the Cavs had a chance at landing this pick. I think it’s because there’s only like 10,000 people in the world that understand probability.
Colin: I think a lot of us harbored less-than-discrete hopes that Anthony Davis would become a Cavalier. Like, if you asked us straight up if we thought the Cavs would win the lottery two years in a row, we would’ve denied it, but a Kyrie-Brow core was too tantalizing to not hope for. Plus, in the Davis draft, the Cavs ended up with the fourth pick, which was a decidedly “Well, [crap]!” sort of moment, especially since so many of us were attached, in the wake of a lottery non-miracle, to the idea of the Cavs drafting Brad Beal or Michael Kidd-Gilchrist. (Ay, Dion: keep turning our disappointment into fireworks, buddy.)
Nate: It amazes me the way teams and communities of fans talk themselves into players because they fit a need. Porter was more likely to be available than Noel, but he wasn’t necessarily even the fifth best player in the draft. At least now you don’t have to have an internal Alex Len debate. [Ed: This debate would not have been pleasant.] With that in mind, is Noel the guy? Is there any part of you that wants …McLemore? …Oladipo? …Porter? I was super wary before the draft. Truth be told, I thought Oladipo was the most can’t-miss player, and he didn’t fit on the team, at least in any sort of conventional way. Does Noel’s weight bother you at all? If there’s a player he reminds me of, it’s Alonzo Mourning: similar bodies, similar explosiveness, similar defensive instincts. Mourning was always lighter than the players he played against but made up for it with mettle and tenacity. If Noel can perform similarly, it should make for good times.
In parting, I’m excited for the summer: pictures of Kyrie play-acting with TT and Noel, Summer League, free agency, etc. I’m pretty sure this is the start of a new subsection in the Wikipedia history of the Cavs. As Nick Gilbert said, the goal is to not be back in the lottery next year. I think that’s an admirable goal, even if it’s going to be harder to achieve than many people think it will be. The post-LeBron dark ages are over. I can feel it.
Colin: To answer your most urgent questions: yeah, Noel’s the guy because the Cavs need a rim protector—plus, you can’t pass on a guy who might be a transformative defensive player—and yes, Noel’s going to have to add some weight because, wow, he’s a twig. He’s at 204 right now, though when he was walking around on two sturdy limbs, he weighed something like 215 pounds. I think he’ll be able to pack on some muscle over the next few years. He’ll need to if he wants to play center. And hell, I’m flying high: in my mind, he’s a more athletic Tyson Chandler. Don’t you dare tell me otherwise, and also, if you could send me some photoshopped images of Noel with the sort of Castro-ish beard Chandler favors, that’d be great.
@be n f I wasn’t talking about you in particular but most people making those comparisons.
I lost weight after my acl injury as to not hurt it again. This guy is going to pack pounds on a reconstructed knee? =/.
KyrieSwIrving – I think his defense is correctable though. Who exactly was preaching defense to the Kings these last few years?
Per Basketball reference:
Last year, they were 29th in defensive rating.
The year before, 29th.
The year before, 20th.
The year before that, 20th
This is a team on the decline. Is it really Cousins fault?
Offensively Noel will throw down some Oops in the league too, which the cavs sorely lack in right now. But yeah, his offensive ceiling is pretty low.
Noel will gain weight, its not really much of a question. No professional athlete who plays a position where strength matters has the same muscle mass at 19 as they do at 25. None, not a one. I’m more worried about his health, but assuming decent health he’ll be playing at around 240-260 during his prime. Sure, he wouldn’t be able to gaurd shaq one on one, but there is no shaq to guard. You don’t want him to gain too much more weight than that either, his speed and explosiveness are huge assets. And Ben F, the biggest reason… Read more »
Also – (because for some reason my comment disappeared after I hit the Submit Comment button) I would love to see the Cavs make a trade for a guy like Shawn Marion or Danny Granger. They would represent a stop-gap at the SF while improving our win totals. Add that in with Mike Browns defensive system and I think we’d be a playoff team…which should be good enough for us to make a push for one of the better FA’s next year. (I don’t believe we have much of a chance of getting Lebron back…though I wouldn’t object to them… Read more »
J Hill – I wasn’t comparing him to any of those players…that was someone else too. ;) If I had to make a comparison (and this would be his ceiling) it would be a cross between Serge Ibaka and Ben Wallace (defensively). I think he has it in him to be a better man/post defender than Ibaka though not near as good as Wallace. Offensively, he’s a lot closer to a combination of Biedrins and Tyson Chandler. (That bad.) I don’t see him having a high ceiling there…with his best attribute being as a PnR guy or a guy who… Read more »
J Hill – I agree, hard to keep up with the posts. Probably should have started the comment with my argument…and quoted underneath. LOL I wonder what it would take to trade for Danny Granger from Indiana. He’s clearly not going to be in their plans moving forward…would a #19 (or a couple of 2nd rounders plus Gee) be enough? Because adding him to Kyrie and Dion (in my opinion) would be a great little stop gap. If we can swing something like that before the draft (I can’t remember when FA opens up) then we could trade back in… Read more »
None of the guys you compare him to were ever any good for the team that drafted them.
6-8 years would probably be around when LBJ retires if we were to get him. Looking at the draft that yielded Chandler you see 5 centers going in the top 8, of those only 2 amounted to anything, and Chandler took forever to get there. And for all the talk about the Camby comparisons, well Camby wasn’t really on that many winning teams (where he was a big minute player on the team). About 6 out of 17 season And those didn’t come until he was in the league for about 5 years. And guess what that Denver team had?… Read more »
Ben F- My bad on the trade thing, all these posts are blending together. To be honest my questions are more how I don’t see how Nerlens Noel that one thing that pushes us over into playoff contention next year, or are they just that confident in player growth and Mike Brown that his defensive system will be enough to add 20 games? I just don’t buy that we aren’t going to make a push for LBJ if we aren’t drafting or signing someone who can play the 3, which is our biggest hole. I think people are overvaluing big… Read more »
Yeah, I hate my own trade, too (for Vucevic). Just looking for other scenarios. Most of my post was about Noel . . . “I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised to see him get to where Tyson Chandler is (in regards to weight) after a couple of seasons in the NBA.” Noel may not grow into a Tyson Chandler for a few years, but he’ll definitely be useful in various situations right away. We’ll have Andy until then – so what does it matter? As I said before, I think he’ll grab defensive rebounds and start fast breaks (does… Read more »
J Hill – what trade is that? I was quoting Underdog on the Orlando trade. I hate that trade. As for the players that Joey Joe mentioned, you’re right that Amare is an expensive bench guy. That being said, it’s not because of an ACL injury that he is. You are right in that we don’t know for sure what he weighed in college…but it’s not unreasonable to assume he’s lost 10-15lbs of muscle since he had to stop working out. Especially since it was a leg injury (and legs have more muscle mass than any other part of the… Read more »
Ben F I don’t like that trade at all, Joey Joe, those players didn’t have big health question marks, and one of them is now getting paid 100 million dollars to ride the bench. (Because of health problems.) Also you are going off what people think he weighed when he was playing. To be honest don’t really know for sure.
“Another post I like is Orlando’s Vucevic. Don’t know what type of blockbuster we could work there . . . give them #1, #19 & Zeller & Waiters for Vucevic and Orlando’s #1 (McLemore). I know Orlando wouldn’t go for it, but I think Vucevic could be a center on a championship team some day. ” Underdog – that is putting us further back. We aren’t gaining talent or depth here…we are losing it. Noel has better upside than Vecevic, Waiters can help run an offense when Kyrie sits or is injured. McLemore cannot. Plus, we are giving up a… Read more »
KyrieSwirving – love you over at FTS…but I disagree vehemently with you on Cousins. Who has been getting Cousins the ball in a position were he can make efficient offensive plays? We have a more talented guard duo then the Kings do…at either position. He is a misused talent on a team that is in desperate need of a shakeup. Maybe the new ownership group comes through…and provides that. The Maloofs were never going to run a legit operation needed for long term NBA Success. I think that Cousins would be a supreme talent with a better supporting cast around… Read more »
Thinking long-term, Irving/Waiters/Thompson/Noel makes a great base of young talent. It’s still short a couple necessary pieces, of course–no one drafts an entire championship lineup. But seriously, if you were an elite FA forward looking for a young, championship-caliber supporting cast, could you find a better one than that? Assuming Noel ends up playing basketball, he puts us in a great position to attract a guy like Kevin Love or … can I say LeBron?
Thinking long-term, Irving/Waiters/Thompson/Noel makes a great base of young talent. It’s still short a couple necessary pieces, of course–no one drafts an entire championship lineup. But seriously, if you were an elite free-agent forward looking for a young, championship-caliber supporting cast, could you find a better one than that? Assuming Noel ends up playing basketball, he puts us in a great position to attract a guy like Kevin Love or … can I say LeBron?
Watched Noel’s scouting video on DraftExpress. He’s basically Marcus Camby, right? Elite centers have always been rare commodities. But in today’s NBA, where point guards run wild, more than ever you need big men who can shut down the pick-and-roll. Guys with size, instincts and foot speed. Tyson Chandler fits that mold; he won a title in Dallas, then turned the knicks around. Joakim Noah won 60+ games in Chicago. Look at the impact Varejao has when he’s on the court. Now imagine that with 50% more hops and Ibaka-level shot-swatting. Noel has the chance to be a hugely important… Read more »
Demarcus cousins is not anything close to an Elite PF/C. He has some serious talent, and it is misused and overvalued. He is a prototypical Good Stats/Bad team guy. He plays shoddy defense, and doesn’t score efficiently. Hes a pretty good rebounder, but thats really about his only real strong trait. He scores a lot… and pretty inneficiently for someone his size. Sounds like… good stats, bad team. Hell no with the #1 pick. I’d take Ben Wallace (something approximating Nerlens floor) over some tyreke evans type (Boogie cousins) all day. We have Kyrie and Dion, we don’t need 20… Read more »
With all the assets the Cavs have there are too many trade possibilities for me to even think about. Let’s assume that the worst case scenario is that we don’t work a trade and draft Noel. That’s not such a bad worst case scenario. I’m sure the Cleveland Clinic medical staff will check him thoroughly before they pick him. I’m sure he’s going to gain weight. Physically, he reminds me of a young Kevin Garnett. Of course, offensively Garnett was vastly more advanced. But defensively Noel may have even more quickness and mobility. Can he disrupt a Lebron drive to… Read more »
Nerlens Noel: Height-6’11.75 (in shoes), Weight 206lbs (was up to 220lbs during the season), Wingspan 7’3.75, standing reach 9’2 Player A: Height-7’0.5 (in shoes), Weight 224lbs, Wingspan 7’3, Standing Reach 9’2, Bench reps: 2 Player B: Height- 6’10.25 (in shoes), Weight 240lbs, Wingspan 7’4.5, Standing Reach 9’3.5, BenchPress Reps: 7 Player C: Height- 6’10 (shoes), Weight 230lbs, Wingspan 7’1.75, SR 9’0.5 Player A is Tyson Chandler, Player B is Dwight Howard, C is Amare. If you believe Noel that he was playing at 225 during the season his physical tools are close to identical to Chandlers. Chandler is now a… Read more »