Links to the Present: Say It Ain’t So Edition
2013-04-23
BREAKING: Chris Broussard of ESPN reports that the Cavs are in contract negotiations with Mike Brown, which must make Jim Buss family thrilled that he won’t have to pay Mike Brown all that money next year.
Jason Lloyd of the Beacon Journal reports that they have reached a “handshake agreement” on a new deal.
Here’s to more end of game isolations, missed adjustments, role confusion, and Mr. Potato head jokes. I need a drink.
Note: The opinions expressed in this post do not reflect those of the rest of the staff at CavsTheBlog, the TrueHoop network, the blindly optimistic, or their affiliates.
What’s important here is to have some perspective and not to get suckered into narratives. Rosters matter far more than coaches. Phil Jackson couldn’t coach the Bobcats to 30 wins. MIke Woodson, another guy known for his ISO heavy offense, is reinventing himself as a top tier coach. Mike Brown will be just fine.
Well, you guys wanted Byron gone. Be careful what you wish for.
Honestly, I’ll never defend Chris Grant or Dan Gilbert again. The Cavs won’t win anything with those two guys running the show. Only Charlotte and the mini-Buss now in control in LA keep the Cavs from being a laughingstock for this one.
To all those hoping for a “top assistant”. Mike Brown was that top assistant before he came to Cleveland before. Wouldn’t you rather have someone who’s won over 50 games rather than an unproven assistant? This is a clear case of “the grass is greener”…
To all those worrying about making the playoffs but not winning a championship? How about let’s not count any chickens! I’d take the playoffs right now, as opposed to another 20 win season.
Absolutely LOVE this move. Look around. Go on, take your time. I’ll wait. Go parse through all the other candidates. Interview them (why is this such a big deal to people? This isn’t casting a wide net like where you work. The list of people who are qualified to be an NBA head coach is, what, 20 names long? If you think every front office doesn’t have a file on all these men, you’re insane). debate over them, and come back to me. Is there any doubt that Mike Brown is the ideal candidate for this job? He checks all… Read more »
The coach is responsible for a lot of things, but the reality is that the coach doesn’t play the game. The coach doesn’t miss shots. The coach doesn’t miss rotations. The Cavs lost in 2007 and 2008 because they were young and inexperienced. They lost in 2008 and 2009 because the supporting cast was weak; and they lost in 2010 because Lebron played poorly and because Delonte was a headcase, As much as Mike Brown’s team didn’t win in the playoffs, he got them in a place to compete The team improved on it’s regular season record every year, and… Read more »
No problem with Brown. Offense was crap to begin with and Defense will now be stellar. Brown knows he sucks at O so the team will address that issue. Brown is pretty hands off in terms of discipline but BS’s doghouse got to be a bit of a joke for everyone not named Omri Casspi.
Interviewing literally no one is not doing due diligence. I’d like to point out that the Warriors had interviewed like 5 people two years ago, where Mike Brown was supposedly the top of the list, and by the time they got around to Mark jackson he was the sixth. I highly doubt they went into the process thinking Mark Jackson was going to be their guy, but by choosing to interview multiple candidates instead of just focusing on one guy and ignoring everyone else, they managed to find someone who, unexpectedly surprised them and wound up getting the job. And… Read more »
Most of you seem to not understand the organization’s coaching move’s the past few years. Fear not, you should actually be proud of how the Cavs front office has handled things post-Lebron, if only the rest of the Cleveland franchises would take note. For starters, once the Cavs hired Scott, it became apparent what the organization’s intent was. They wanted to tank for the next few years and stock pile talent, while simultaneously developing that talent. Byron Scott is amazing at doing both things, and isn’t afraid to get his hands dirty. He is the NBA trash man if you… Read more »
Cory,
I love the theories where the Cavs are playing some masterful game of chess with like a ninth-degree level of thinking. Not sure they’re right, but it’s a rosy outlook.
That said, I am excited for next year. My concern is with an eventual end game of going from contender to champion. Let’s check back in five years.
No, Ben, many of us wanted Mike Brown fired regardless of what LeBron would do. Two straight playoff flame-outs. Not even going down in 7 in some crazy series. Getting pretty handily outplayed in both series, when they were the favorites coming in (especially the Celtics series, total disaster). He needed to go.
I actually looked at the numbers, and Mike Brown being a defensive mastermind is getting overblown. He’s had defense in the top 5 in efficiency twice in 6 seasons. Last season, he had the Lakers at 13th. Which would be far better than this season, except that the season before he took over, they were 6th.
The 2008-2009 Cavs defense was the best he’s coached, but they get shredded by Orlando in the playoffs. I mean, his track record as defensive coach is good, but it isn’t great.
I thought we all realized three years ago that the ONLY reason we fired Mike Brown was for the small possibility that it would help keep LeBron here. We now know that LeBron was going to go no, regardless, and it had NOTHING to do with Mike Brown. SO; 1. It doesn’t effect anything on any imaginary LeBron return scenario. He didn’t leave because of Mike Brown. 2. We get a coach who has a consistent record in turning sub-par defenders into valuable members of a great team defense. 3. We show that we are not stubborn and can adapt… Read more »
Well, I don’t hate the signing. Brown has basically been fired after a 61 win season and a 51 win season (equivalent for strike shortened). He’s a solid NBA coach, and maybe he’s grown and learned since his previous time in Cleveland. Maybe he’s the Bill Belicheck of basketball, except in this scenario, he returns to Cleveland. My one concern is that the team just fired an NBA finalist and coach-of-the-year with two previous head coaching stints. With hindsight as a guide, his time in Cleveland went loosely as could have been expected from those prior gigs. Now, the team… Read more »
At least we know what we are getting ourselves into again, just don’t delude yourselves into thinking or hoping that Mike Brown is something or could be something that he’s not. Strengths: amazing defensive coach, hard worker, & an all-around nice guy Deficiencies: has consistently bad rotations & a stagnant offense, never makes adjustments until they are too late, doesn’t hold his players accountable, and is a mediocre motivator The crux of the matter is the following: has MB ever improved his weaknesses to a significant degree especially when it matters most? I’m afraid that if we ever become a… Read more »
This goes one of two ways: 1. Mike Brown has gained some perspective when it comes to in game decision making and roster management ala Doc Rivers (remember Doc was a retread that people laughed at a couple of years ago), He invigorates the D, becomes a bestie/general to the young guys, and convinces the right free agent or two to come to Cleveland. This pans out with us being a 50 win team year in and out. 2. We’re slightly better on D, decent on O and player development slows. This leaves us as a 40-45 win team. Worth… Read more »
I’m totally okay with it.
I’m furious; that is all.
I bet 10 million dollars the Cavs win more than 30 games next season. I wouldn’t make this bet if Byron was coming back. Based on this analysis, I am happy with the hire.
Man, this is a controversial choice. I, for one, think it’s a pretty good move. Brown is actually a really good coach. Everybody in the basketball world know this. He has a strong resume including a ridiculous winning percentage, playoff experience, and a proven defensive system. For those on this board who think we’ll see 2010 redux, it’s important to remember that the current team is almost nothing like the team he coached before. Sure, Kyrie is the superstar but we’ve got talented competitive guys who will be able to get the job done when Kyrie is having an off… Read more »
Pros A man who loves the city of Cleveland and has roots. A practical coach who plays it close to the vest. (Kind of like Tressel, in this regard) The vets still with the team like him (AV, Gibson) Will devise a system that minimizes mistakes, and teaches young players how to play like 5. Cons Has yet to prove transcendent, ala Pop, Phil, or even Larry Brown, given the situation. I see Mike Brown as Mike Fratello 2.0. We’re going to be living in the land of 40 wins for the next few seasons. Prediction: 35, 43, 45 wins.… Read more »
Can Gilbert fly the team to LA to learn the Triangle from Phil?
Rich – When he was given Mo Williams and Delonte West instead of Snow, Hughes, and Pavlovic the offense suddenly become very efficient. Even after Kuester left. There is evidence that he couldn’t work miracles offensively, but could do a good enough job when he had the pieces.
You have to think that every NBA fanbase hates their coach when they aren’t winning. We hate our coaches regardless. There are maybe 7-10 consensus good coaches in the league and everyone else is on the hot-seat or a year away from the hot-seat. At least we know they’ll play defense next year.
I’m a little partial about the decision. He’s the best coach out there with the best resume, and in terms of our horrendous defense last year he’s the defensive minded coach we need. Where I tend to not like the signing is because we know what we got from Mike Brown before. He’s horrible at offense and not the best in game coach. He seems to be a coach that could bring an already good team to the playoffs, but not good enough to take them to the next level like Doc Rivers, Greg Pop., Mark Jackson (He’s done a… Read more »
On the contrary, there is ample evidence the man can’t coach offense.
And LeBron James isn’t coming here. I don’t care what Dan Gilbert does or doesn’t do, it isn’t happening. Move on from the unrealistic.
Though I thought it was weird how quickly he was hired, I’ll just take a wait and see approach before I decide if he’s a good coach for this team or not. It’s not like there’s anything else I can do.
At the very least, I’m pretty excited about how this hire has fired up the comments section.
Prediction: Vesus will track down the location of Tom’s softball practice to show up and heckle him.
Oh and by the way, someone may want to let that moron owner know that lebron ALREADY won a ring. It is too late to make good on his idiotic comic sans letter. What an embarrassment this guy is to Cleveland.
@ Tom pestak
Tom, some of us here actually want the Cavs to be a serious contender. We see a young superstar in Kyrie and the possibility of adding a 4 time MVP to play with him. We like this. I feel the cavs should do what it takes to make that happen because I want to see them win something.
You and Dan Gilbert want to build the Atlanta Hawks and I simply can’t understand why. Gilbert is an egomaniac but I’m not sure why you support this absurd backwards move.
Actually, Rich, it’s based on the fact that the collection of mishmash that he had to work with the first time here ended up playing solid defense. There is evidence that he can get defensive value out of players who showed no signs of being able to do so beforehand. There isn’t evidence that he’s going to mold them into something they weren’t drafted for.
Prediction: Mike Brown will be the best two time coach in Cavs history
Ugh. I wish I could stop being a Cavs fan. Mike Brown is a boob.
Failed attempt at panic button
_____________
| |
| |
| P A N I C |
| |
|_____________|
Nice coaching search, Dan. Get the comic sans ready for when Kyrie heads to Los Angeles. Not that Gilbert cares, he’s the star of this show.
These are all bold statements based on zero facts. Everyone that says Mike Brown will come in and get them to play defense is based on zero facts. Just a hope that Mike Brown can make it happen. But you have no idea whether he will or not.
people, the cavs defense was the worst in the league, r scoring was to bad, u cant win unless you play defense and he one of the best defense of coache’s, this is good and bad for cleveland. good we will be back in the playoffs 2014-2015 season, bad lebron will not come back to cleveland if mike brown is the coach, hope we get number one pick next year and get wiggins. thats are only hope to win a championship, u cant win a championship without a superstar, he’s next superstar.
“However, what they were drafted to eventually do will not come to fruition under a Mike Brown coached offense.”
A bold statement based on zero facts. Besides, they were really brought here to help this team contend, and the best way to do that is to get them to actually play some defense. This team wasn’t going to contend without making serious improvements on that side of the ball.
People are hoping that Mike Brown, with lesser talent, is going to do more than he’s done in the past? His offenses were stagnant, largely relying on one player to do everything. Now that he has less offensive talent, his offense is suddenly going to blossom? Ok then…
Yes, Tom, the same rules that apply to Mike Brown, a not-great coach, apply to LeBron James, one of the greatest players ever. Exactly.
And Steve, that’s a problem. They need to learn to do more than that, and now they won’t. And yes, what they did THIS year isn’t what they were drafted to do 3-4 years from now. Obviously. However, what they were drafted to eventually do will not come to fruition under a Mike Brown coached offense.
I am disappointed as most are with the lack of a real coaching search. The only positive I can see is that we locked up the guy who would have been interviewed (and possibly hired) by basically all the teams with a coaching vacancy, so at least there’s that.
I am okay with Mike Brown as the coach but I believe that the staff he puts together will be more telling. After his Lakers stint I am hoping that he can become much more inventive on the offensive end.
On the bright side, even though I was right about this year being just fine, I’m pretty sure I’m wrong about Mike Brown. Respected people who think the Cavs are going in the right direction also like this hire. So I guess I’m on board.
Slightly different circumstances, but Lionel Hollins second go-round with the Grizzlies isn’t too shabby, Nor was Joe Gibbs’ with the Redskins. Although Gibbs was a three-time SB Champ, so that comparison may not hold water.
I’m heading to softball practice. Can’t wait to see all the comments by the time I get back.
Just so I understand the logic, if LeBron wanted to come back in 2014, the Cavs should say no because: 1.) Been there done that 2.) quit on me once, shame on you…. 3.) We don’t need a guy that chokes (almost) everytime he gets on the big stage 4.) LeBron only won a ring because he had Bosh and Wade and Norris Cole so unless those guys come here it’s going to turn out just like last time. 5.) LeBron managed to lose twice the in the finals already, once when he was heavily favored. 6.) LeBron couldn’t make… Read more »
Rich, Irving and Waiters have been taking turns iso-ing for most of the season, and when this team does initiate some ball movement, the basics look a lot like the basics from the Brown era. Everything based off setting a screen for Lebron/Irving. There isn’t much reason to believe that the offense will take a hit. They were 13th in pace this year, just slightly above average, and certainly not a fast paced team. And I love the strawman about molding them into defensive stoppers. No, he’s going to get them to actually play fundamental defense for the first time… Read more »
Guys (other than Tom), Chill out. The team’s combined three-year record is 64-166. Doesn’t get much worse than that, so this talk of “fizzling in the playoffs” makes little sense seeing that they haven’t come close to the terribleness required of even earning the 8th seed since 2010. The Cavs have been historically bad, so judging this move as a failure just because of his past flame-outs in the playoffs is not an apt comparison. How about they actually play something close to .500 ball before we worry about playoff wins/losses. How about this? Brown will actually have a PG… Read more »
Kev – Only applicable example is Billy Martin. That worked out pretty darned well…
Welcome to the bottom of the NBA barrel boys! We are now the Kings. Let us get used to losing. It’s gonna be a long time before this franchise makes it way back up from this. People seem to be under the impression you can just take a coach who is strong in one area, plug him in, and then that area immediately becomes strong on that team. No. This team is not designed to run Mike Browns defense. It is a team that was built around the idea of playing fast-paced offense. Mike Brown is going to come in… Read more »
Rich – then explain why the offensive efficiency of this team was highest when fast-paced juggernauts such as Shaun Livingston and Luke Walton were playing the triangle in the half court?
I have been having fun with the irony of this move, but I am with Tom – Brown is as good as any other coach out there for our needs. And if DG and CG has solid information that he was going to accept another job in the absence of an offer for us, I think it makes sense to lock him up.
Let’s hope he doesn’t turn into the Marty Schottenheimer of basketball.
You can’t make this stuff up. The world really does revolve around LeBron. sigh…
https://twitter.com/Chris_Broussard/status/326803473872068608
This sucks so bad. All of this offensive talent will be wasted. So much for tailoring your coach to your roster. A roster full of great players who would thrive in a run and gun type of offense? Hey let’s hire a slow down the game and try to nitty gritty our way to a title.
Such stupidity.
@ Tom Pestak
A-HA! It is panic induced!!
I’m not saying it’s a bad move. It was just hasty. They might have made the same decision after other interviews. I still like the idea of Mark Price as an assistant.
Wow – I can’t believe people are actually tweeting about how the Cavs need to reach out to LeBron James’ crew.
That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.
LEBRON JAMES IS GONE. THAT SHIP SAILED. IT’S OVER.
RIP THE BAND AID OFF. He’s not coming back! We could have made Gloria James part owner and he would not come back.
Except, Cols, we will have one of the best coaches at “boring defensive basketball”. Brown does that better than all but a couple coaches.
And I have no idea where you get the idea that defensive teams fizzle in the playoffs. The vast majority of teams that make a deep playoff run play great defense.
@Cody – because Danny Ferry might have snatched him up tomorrow? I dunno!
Actually, I do know. Here’s what happened. A “source” told me.
LeBron texted Gilbert last night:
“Yo, this is King James.”
Gilbert texted back:
“I see you have the same number. sup?”
LeBron cryptically texted back:
“Myself, as an individual, giving Coach Brown affirmation like I did, is all about 2014, just so you know where I stand” [followed by some wink emoticons]
If it’s true, I guess we don’t have to worry about LeBron coming back in 2014. https://twitter.com/KBergCBS
So there’s that… Bring on Josh Smith. Ugh.
Yeah Mike Brown who has succeeded at getting fired despite having two of the top NBA players of all time on his teams is the same as Steve Jobs who took a floundering company to one of the best.
Yep. Same.
So we are going to do exactly what every other franchise in the league is doing, play boring defensive basketball. This is so so so so so dumb. Of course it will lead to more regular seasons win because the effort on defense will be there. But it will fizzle in the playoffs because all teams play much better defense in the playoffs and the Mike Brown and Tom Thibideou types of coaches tend to waste their players’ minutes in the regular season chasing wins instead of building towards the playoffs. And it’s boring as hell. We had a chance… Read more »
kevin, i love the steve jobs example. I’m going to use it in all my mbrown discussions with my buddies
I’d like to propose we start referring to Mike Brown pre and post Mo Williams/Delonte West. Basically, when Brown went from a backcourt of Larry “STOP SHOOTING” Hughes, Eric “NEVER SHOOT” Snow, []amon []ones, Sasha “My O is my D and I shoot better from 3 than from the FT line” Pavlovic, to, Mo Williams, and Delonte West, or, “respectable starting-quality players.”
The Cavaliers had one of the best, most creative offensives in the NBA after the trade for Williams and West. They were also DEVASTATING (-ly good) in crunch time those last two seasons.
I don’t think Mike Brown is necessarily a bad choice, but they certainly signed him in a hurry. They could at least have taken a couple of weeks to interview other candidates. That’s just doing their due diligence. If they lost out on MB while looking, it’s not the end of the world.
@ Tom Pestak
“Um…we’ll get back to you in a few weeks after we talk to Brian Shaw and some of your old assistants first?”
Either that or wait to start interviewing. As far as I know, no other team has started interviewing. In fact, other coaches may still be let go. Don’t you find it a bit curious that Cleveland fired and hired a coach before most teams started interviewing or even let go of their current coach? What would have been the harm in at least interviewing someone else?
Everyone waiting for some bright young assistant to come along and work miracles are hoping for a miracle. What is Brian Shaw’s identity? A tough-minded, defensive-first assistant – aka Mike Brown without 350 wins under his belt. I’d rather Brown get started picking out a staff and working with the analytics/scouting department to address this teams needs going forward. There are many. I like the move – it’s aggressive. Gilbert wants his coach back. Mike Brown, Stan Van Gundy, and Phil Jackson are the best coaches available right now. That’s a fact. Last I checked, SVG said last week “No… Read more »
What examples are there similar to this? I am sure there are some: a coach, CEO, governmental appointee. A person getting fired, then being brought back a short time later to right the ship (ideally with a successful ending)?
Steve Jobs, perhaps…that worked out splendidly. With the ipod, iphone and ipad as the equivalent of NBA championships, this team is set!!!
[EDITED] [edited] [edited]
Yay! We get to watch boring basketball!!!!! Everyone just stand around and let’s play iso
I don’t think I would call this a panic move at all. If there is 1 coach out there that they know, it’s Mike Brown. Not like they are hiring some assistant coach that they have to get to know and hear his plans … they know Brown … they know what he’s about and apparently they’re all in.
Hope they are ready to deal with the fan ‘outrage’
… Can’t say I’m too happy about it myself.
Maybe Mark Price as an assistant?
Whether it’s a good move or not, it does seem panic-induced. I guess they’re afraid of losing him to Charlotte, or Detroit maybe. Not interviewing other candidates is a bad move. It makes it look like an over-reaction to having a bad defense the past few seasons.
Not sure who they can hire as an assistant. It’s doubtful it could be anyone from the list Nate put together. Also, Mike Brown will now have to develop rookies. That’s uncharted waters for him.
(Yes, a call me maybe ref)
Hey, I just met with you…and this is crazy…but come back and coach the team you got fired from three years ago, maybe?
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
No.
You’ve got to be kidding????? They didn’t even interview anyone else. This is crazy!!
It looks like this front office does believe Mike Brown is a great fit at head coach. Perhaps they do feel they made a mistake in firing him after the LeBron James fiasco. Look, Mike Brown has his criticisms, and justly, for his lack of offensive imagination. With that said, he did bring LeBron James and co. (with a TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE supporting cast) to the NBA Finals and Eastern Conference Finals. We are clearly on our way to building a much better/deeper team. While we lack the best player on the planet, our collection of young players, a budding superstar,… Read more »