Live Thread: NBA Free Agency Midnight Madness 2017
2017-06-30
In just a few hours… when the moon is out and the clock strikes twelve… the madness of NBA Free Agency will once again descend upon the Land (and 29 other cities). In some places, though, the madness has already taken hold. If you’re a Bulls fan, a Clips fan or a Pacers fan… you’ve already been a witness to some early lunacy. With Jimmy Butler transforming into a Timberwolf, Chris Paul shooting for the moon as a Rocket and Paul George essentially turning into a pumpkin for Indy, will there be any sort of madness that can compete when Friday turns into Saturday, and June turns into July?
Odds are, the answer is a resounding yes. While last year’s Free Agency period had the huge ripple effect of Kevin Durant joining the best regular season team in the League… this year’s crop of possible team-jumping players is measuring up as an attempted answer to that league-altering salvo. Big names like Blake Griffin and Gordon Hayward have already opted out of their deals to test the market, and plenty of other impact players like Paul Millsap, Kyle Lowry, Jeff Teague and Jrue Holiday are also unrestricted. Not to mention two major buyout candidates who could theoretically join the Cavs in Carmelo Anthony and DWayne Wade.
About the only thing for sure is that Joe Lacob is about to outspend Dan Gilbert by handing out upwards of $350M to his two Free Agents, Kevin Durant and Steph Curry. The Cavs have been rumored to be extremely active (especially for a team with no GM in place) on both the trade front (the myriad of Kevin Love for PG-13 swap machinations) and the potential buyout front (the aforementioned Melo and Wade).
What’s in store for this midnight deadline? All signs point to madness…
Check back regularly for rumors, updates and speculation.
Why Blake doesn’t matter…
https://twitter.com/ArashMarkazi/status/880988950956867584
Well he’s under contract, and they could always flip him for pieces. The Clips need to get rid of doc tho.
Much harder to move on a Max deal tho…
Not sure I agree, unless he’s got a no-trade clause.
He also hasn’t been healthy for a full season…
I’m not a fan of Blake Griffin, but regardless of his past, he’s got some elite athleticism, that I’m sure a handful of teams would appreciate. I kind of feel like he’s been a bit coddled in LA though.
Living out here, I’ve seen him plenty of times in person… I’m not impressed with him at all…
And I hate his “hold the A button down too long” mid-range jump shot…
Lol. Perfect description of his jumpshot.
Blake has all the tools and I like that his working for his all around game. But he didn’t milked his athleticism imo. He instead settled for jumpshots a lot of times.
I can’t take credit… I think Pestak came up with that initially…
I see. Kudos to you both tho..
And having lived in that environment, I can relate! Only way Blake gets better is if he’s humbled. And that won’t happen in LA.
You’d think a desperate team like Orlando would bite.
Agreed!
This is genius…
https://twitter.com/daldridgetnt/status/880988209177661441
None of the teams that traded for the big name talent were even in the rumor mill. The talking heads were just speculating without having the right sources. Butler to Minny and George to OKC? WTF.
Watch us get Melo the way the media says how…..smh.
https://twitter.com/Jonathan_Feigen/status/880988130811277312
Wow, that’s a nice contract
He is pretty old tho… he’ll be 39 at the end of his deal…
How great would it be if Iggy signed with Rockets, Kings or Spurs…
I assume Iggy is using the Spurs for leverage. TWolves just used their space.
Want him to go to Spurs.
Maybe I’d trade Cousins to Washington for Beal, Porter and picks. Maybe.
Wiz don’t do that deal…
Curious, your thoughts??
They were only willing to give up Porter for PG-13, and they love Beal who’s on a decent contract… Boogie is a headache who doesn’t move the needle. Wiz need a bench, not to trade away any of their strong starting five…
I remember hearing Joe House on the Bill Simmons podcast, stating he’d give up like 5 first round picks for Boogie. 5 picks for a guy that’s never made the playoffs. ESPN has been fawning over Boogie for years and I never understood it.
True but..
In a scenario where Boogie got traded to Washington, Boogie won’t be as much of a headcase since he would have a partner he likes (former teammate) and won’t restrict his play inside in John Wall. Inside outside combo.
Also a good trade for the Pelicans since Beal and Porter would compliment Davis. Inside-outside combo too.
But yeah, far from reality. I just thought changing players for those two teams would give them perfect compliment for their main stars.
Z-Bo could be a good piece off the bench for Cavs at the MLE…
I’m impressed by his maturity this last 3-5 years. He said he love to end his career in Memphis.
Stupid Magic…
https://twitter.com/CBSSportsNBA/status/880986274475147266
https://twitter.com/SInow/status/880986676373356545
OKC should sign JJ Reddick next for some outside shooting…
I think I remember Lowe writing up that Redick is actually a good positional defender too.
Watch Riles snatch up Hayward, leaving the Celtics with another empty off-season…
He could stay in Utah. Rubio doesn’t suck.
Most signs today pointing toward him leaving though… He’d be a great fit in Miami alongside Dragic, St. Weirdo and Whiteside… That’s a better team than Thomas, Bradley and Horford… and it’s not in the West which is suddenly stacked…
Hayward may lean closer to Miami now that PG is out West.
LOL
https://twitter.com/darrenrovell/status/880985063143464960
Kind of surprised Boston didn’t make a move for PG. This could ultimately be a smart decision.
I’m not… Danny Ainge is Smeagol…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iz-8CSa9xj8
Watch for some #Wojbombs at midnight, when Woj switches to ESPN.
It must be KILLING Woj to not be able to put out his bombs… bad timing on his and ESPN’s part IMHO…
That Oladipo contract is terrible… 4 years and $82M left… yikes
He’s coming home….
The Pacers are rebuilding!! LOL. 20M a year on a player that’s basically Monta Ellis 2.0. No draft picks hoarded.
After the Celtics just added another Nets pick in 2018..
Man… Indy is going to be garbage for a while…
Hopefully not Sacramento-a-while.
Clips should try and move DJ now that they’re stuck with Blake for the next five years…
I don’t want the Cavs to trade TT for DJ! Just putting it out there.
+1000
For sure… at least TT can make shots that aren’t dunks…
True, but he isn’t ever going to change or block anywhere near as many shots in the paint as DJ does. Nor is he an automatic 2pts on a roll. I mean DJ was scoring like 1.8 ppp or something insane. Maybe Korver could improve his fts?
I saw a lot of times where DJ was completely unplayable against the Warriors in the playoffs.
To play devil’s advocate… Sam Presti probably should have just convinced ownership to hang onto Harden…
More importantly I think, OKC has positioned themselves to re-tool even if George leaves next year.
https://twitter.com/ArashMarkazi/status/880981419601780736
So true.
I don’t really get this move…
https://twitter.com/SInow/status/880981952664408064
Timberwolves looking like a playoff squad!
Wolves traded Ricky Rubio to Utah.
Yeah, but why Teague? Why not Lowry or Hill who can actually play both ways?
Maybe Lowry’s cost is higher….i guess.
I’d still take Hill over Teague… and probably Rubio too…
Me too. But now Teague can yell “Not this year… not this year…” at Golden State.
I’ll take Rubio at $13 million a year over either at $18 million.
Lowry can get more from Toronto and George Hill is getting traded for Kyrie, Duh!
Haven’t you been reading Nate’s comments? Cavs can’t trade for Hill because they are over the cap…
Maybe they’re banking on Thibs to make Teague decent on defense, and they have great defenders on the wings.
Or they already know Lowry and Hill can’t be afforded.
Teague, Wiggins, Butler, + KAT. That is a pretty nasty foursome.
Actually, yeah on paper that is scary. Teague is a pretty darn good fourth option on offense, really what his role should be. Still weak on shooting, but they will score. Butler helps some with their perimeter d. If Wiggins and KAT learn how to play d/care on that end….they both have all defensive team athletic potential. Suddenly that team becomes very very scary.
https://twitter.com/AlexKennedyNBA/status/880981489600561153
Houston now has CP3 and Harden
Okc now has PG13 and Westbrook
Minn has Butler, Wiggins And KAT
What I’m trying to say is that to me as a basketball fan I really like to see different teams adding more talent and getting better and try to have a more competitive league. That to me is great but then again and I’m sorry to post about this again but the KD move to the warriors took away all that fun.
Nobody will be able to match 4 all stars, including 2 MVP’s playing in their peak years it’s just ridiculous.
The West just got more competitive…
Exactly, only the Western conference. It would be so boring to watch Cavs game this upcoming season. I really like watching competitive games.
Same here. But I think with Boston and Washington getting better the east maybe top heavy which is acceptble somehow.
We were a minute away from taking game 3. Spurs were dominating them. If we improve some (Z-Bo + PG + Cedi + Kyrie’s BB IQ) & GSW loses Iggy, we can take them. Throw a Melo or Wade buyout on there at the deadline. I have hope.
Pacers metaphor for pulling off the PG-13 “trade”
https://twitter.com/MrRandomSilly/status/880867783843745797
Poor Windy…
https://twitter.com/KennyDucey/status/880978017547431936
???
why is this so funny
https://twitter.com/ArashMarkazi/status/880980432078094336
Meanwhile…
https://twitter.com/daldridgetnt/status/880980460918145024
Love it!
That I like. Z-Bo will punish smalls down low. We need another big. Regular season minutes limited.
Kyrie, JR, LeBron, Love, TT + Korver, Z-Bo, Shump, RJ, Frye, & Cedi. Throw in a PG & another wing (Enchilada, Tucker) + Felder & Tavares & that is a fine 15.
https://twitter.com/mcten/status/880975686944665601
This is insane though… What were the Pacers thinking?
https://twitter.com/AkronJackson/status/880979767742386177
I’m just happy PG didn’t wind up with the Celtics… Maybe OKC can reload with this and challenge… Certainly with CP3 going to Rockets, PG to OKC and Blake staying in LA, the EC hasn’t gotten any better…
Absolutely. Same with Butler.
How in the world Indiana didn’t even get a pick for that if they plan on rebuilding….
Probably because Paul George has stated he wants to get to the Lakers. So it may only be a rental.
Still a dumb deal man.. I’d squeeze a protected 2045 2nd round pick for that on some other teams.
Word. If you and I were GM’s we’d rake
Good point.
I kind of like PG and Westbrook playing together.
To be expected: In no way did the Pacers want to help out the Cavs.
Well both PG and Butler went West. I see that as a victory!
I would love to see a miraculous Thunder upset of Durant’s warriors next year. The thunder will be better with George, no doubt.
If they could add one more Superstar to their squad.
I’m sure OKC would low ball the third superstar.
Absolutely. They won’t be the Dubs, but they won’t lay down either.
They were crushing them prior to Kawhi getting hurt. Without Parker.
I like the Spurs, but that was one game…
Four legit teams out West. Dubs, Spurs, Rockets, Thunder. Wolves vastly improved. Would love the Spurs to poach Iggy.
If Iggy is talking to the Spurs and they’re targeting Lowry etc.. They might try to unload Danny Green.
We need a great G.M.
How would they have the cap space for that? Only if TP and Manu retire…I think.
Not quite sure about the numbers but Pau Gasol opted out of his final year. I think they have 20M in space and could make some deals to open up a little more. Just thinking we could take advantages on this situations to target players I think could help.
Didn’t know bout Gasol.
I wonder why the Cavs haven’t mentioned Hayward? His game is similar to PG13’s.
Hayward is a free agent. PG has another year. We can get PG via trade. Hayward is getting signed for big bucks somewhere. We can’t get him.
How would you get Hayward?
Thanks John, didn’t know that.
Whoops. Rephrasing. Well, could have gotten PG that is.
Because they have essentially no way to sign him.
I don’t like that the East gets this weaker, Talking heads will have a lot to say on our playoff run if we get to the finals again.
Well talking heads would still find ways to offend you and I, so I’m cool with it.
Oh yep. No matter where Lebron is..
https://twitter.com/mcten/status/880962199400984576
Wait what?
That trade is just nuts. You just traded Paul George for two guys who’s ceiling is a slightly above average starter.
That was idiotic. How could they say no to getting Love compared to that?!! Love is comparable. Offensively he is probably as good or better. Obviously PG is on a whole other level when he is locked in defensively, but they are comparable. Maybe the salaries didn’t match up?!
Well Sabonis is on a rookie deal, and Victor just signed a contract. If they’re rebuilding, KLove might not make sense.
Yeah. I suppose they probably saw that move as treading water. It is a championship contend or blow it up NBA culture now.
They are tanking & starting over.
Oladipo also played college ball for Indiana.
Oladipo went to Indiana. That *might* help with tickets. Some.
Shump and Cedi for Thad Young… Who says no?
Get it done Griff! …oh wait.
No.
Me. Not a fan of Thad Young.
The East gets weaker & the Celtics didn’t get him. Blake stays with the Clippers. In terms of a big name player, it is Melo or Wade on a buyout later on.
That’s a heist for the Thunder, even if it is a rental. Gets the completely underperfirming Oladipo off their books.
Absolutely. Ironically in my opinion, the perfect big man to play off George and Russ would be…. Serge Ibaka.
https://twitter.com/royceyoung/status/880969148192481281
Worse.
Wow!!!!!!
Shocked that is all the Pacers got for PG13
What about Shump for Thad Young?
I’d consider that. Thad isn’t a bad defender too. At times he reminds me of a better version of Jeff Green. Or Jeff Green is worse version of Thad Young since he came to the league first. Lol.
Thad Young is Jeff Green if he gave a crap about anything other than cashing checks.
That would be nice.
GREAT. PAUL GEORGE TO THE THUNDER. WHERE ARE WE GONNA GET MORE FIREPOWER FROM NOW???????
New York or Chicago.
Was a long shot to begin with. It also wasn’t going to add a ton more offensive firepower. It would have helped a ton defensively though without sacrificing offense.
Starting 5 Examples for 2018 finals: If Lebron averages 35 in the finals, Kyrie averages 31 in the finals, Love averages 18 in the finals, Smith averages 10/12 in the finals, TT averages 4 in the finals. 35+31+18+12+4= maybe 4-2 loss in the finals. ONCE AGAIN, ANYONE PLEASE HELP THE CAVS GET SOME MORE FIREPOWER! Differences with the Warriors is their 4th and 5th guys do other things good. Their 4th and 5th top players may score 8 points but will have 10 assists, 3 steals and 4 blocked shots, bring the ball up the floor, run the fast breaks,… Read more »
Looks like Kev staying a Cav! I’m so happy.
Never really thought PG was going to the Cavs.
Seriously, that’s all they got?
https://twitter.com/DanFeldmanNBA/status/880966572080340993
Whoa. Slow down. This could be a three way deal. Love would be great in okc.
Not seeing anything to suggest that, you?
https://twitter.com/ramonashelburne/status/880964647481819136
There goes that.
I think many are forgetting the fact that it’s beyond adding great talent is what makes you a real championship team.
KD’s game, meshes well with Klay, Draymond and Curry. and HE PLAYS GREAT DEFENSE. That’s how they did it.
If Melo was added to GS instead of KD, would they be champions last season??
Golden Stat were a championship caliber team without KD. So yes they’d also be a championship caliber team with Melo.
Point still stands. I think we both agree we’d beat them if Melo was there instead.
Never said that. It would be easier, then them having KD, but not automatic.
With Blake Griffin staying in LA, that means Denver and Phoenix are probably now more interested in Love, Milsap.
I am fine with adding Cedi, inking Korver, developing Tavares, & hunting buyouts later. Get a PG (Rondo?) & try to unload Shump. If Kyrie improves as a playmaker, we can take the Dubs if they loose Iggy.
https://twitter.com/sam_amick/status/880959701562703872
What about shabazz napier? Had some decent moments late last year and the Cavs could fit him into exception
Isn’t he still with Minny?
Portland
Maybe Al Farouq Aminu will be available then?
We know LBJ was a fan…Pat Riley smacks his face in disgust.
Meh not that good .
https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/880960762000396292
https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/880960938555432960
Good news for us if we want Phoenix as a partner in a Love/George deal.
*sigh* wish I’d had time to write an article. My top free agency period targets : Tony Allen, KJ Mcdaniels, Ekpe Udoh, James Johnson, Shawn Livingston
According to Sam Amico, the Spurs are interested in Livingston.
Tony Allen is a FA?
Defenders with length and offensive skills. Unfortunately not great shooters.
Livingston has that nice midrange post up move. At least against tiny guards like Kay Felder.
PG is those things, a good scorer that can create his own shot, good off the ball and can shoot threes at a 40 percent rate. Not saying they can get him, but that might be the only real move that makes them more competitive against gs next year. These other guys are basically just defensive players that can’t space the floor for James and Irving. We don’t have a motion system for Livingston to get a ton of back cuts. Midrange us at a 42-45 percent rate likely won’t get it done against gs. They need a real two… Read more »
Never mind.
I’d give Livingston the full Midlevel
I don’t want any GS guys here.. But he’s definitely a great fit here.
James Johnson or Livingston.
Yeah, could be the best we get. He will probably get paid more than that though.
https://twitter.com/FisolaNYDN/status/880924009877188609
IS IT JUST ME OR IS IT THE GENERAL CONSENSUS AMONGST G.M’S THAT THEY DON’T VALUE KLOVE THAT HIGH OR I AM JUST MISINTERPRETATING SOME OF WHAT THE MEDIA IS SAYING
It’s a weird dynamic. Teams do value live, but no team willing to give up young players/picks that indy would want. At least not right now. Which is fine by me.
Contenders value him. But they won’t give up what Indy wants (young players/picks). Tank teams don’t want a star making $25 million.
https://twitter.com/TimBontemps/status/880954302826561537
https://twitter.com/TimBontemps/status/880953172482707456
https://twitter.com/espn_macmahon/status/880953678060040192
No to Melo. No to Wade. No to salvaging the future (next to impossible, sigh…). No to trading Kev and/or Kyrie.
So you wouldn’t take Wade and/or Melo on a Vet minimum?
I mean, it’s worth the try maybe especially for the price you’ve mentioned. But there’s only 1 ball on the court. Durant and GS never had that problem of sharing because their stars’ skillset compliment one another. Adding Melo here would be redundant and won’t move the needle on defense which I think is more of a factor than outscoring Golden State. We didn’t have the right guy(s) to defend them. Why would Melo make sense?
I get the defensive issue. I also think that Melo has the tools to be good defensively, but he plays for the Knicks, and probably doesn’t waste the energy.
Wade has been a good defensive player most of his career.
I think in the playoffs these two probably step up.
Anyways I do it in a heartbeat. Melo can create his own shot, and would help when LeBron sat.
Sure, but Melo won’t come off the bench or only score when Lebron sits. All our guys that needs the ball to be effective are on the starting five. All GS needs is the first 5 mins of the game where Lebron/Kyrie/Melo/Wade are trying to get rhythms. That slight opening is all they need. then boom, 20 point lead. We can’t defend, game over. On the offensive side, Isn’t Kyrie basically a point guard Melo?? Lol. They wouldn’t be as effective on the court if they won’t get enough touches as they don’t play well (at least consistently) on defense… Read more »
I might look at Wade because he’s a proven winner, can play great defense when it counts (and when healthy). But he’s an every-other-year player now. He played well and mostly healthy last year, so I don’t expect him to be healthy this year lol.
I get that Melo plays well when he have a real team to compliment him. We saw it on team USA. The thing is, we’re not playing Lithuania on the NBA Finals.
I don’t know how you say no to either on Vet mins.
Does chemistry, defense, sharing the ball and efficiency matter to you??
This ain’t the Olympics. We’re not playing Latvia or Spain in the Finals.
What type of players do you expect to get on Vet Min deals?
I’d dangle…
Shump,
both DWill’s (sign & trade),
5M trade exception
veterans minimum
lower picks…
…to get a couple of good 3 & D wings that is a sure fit here.
KD goes off but Lebron goes off too so they cancel each other out.
But KD can’t get help because we lock down or at least make life miserable for both Steph and Klay because we have 3&D wings instead.
Lebron gets enough rest because he doesnt need to switch everytime to cover up Kyrie’s and JR’s a$$ on defense
I don’t think you can dangle either DWill in a S&T, actually you can’t dangle anyone in S&T, since we are over the luxury cap.
Who do you want that’s better than Melo and Wade on Vet min deals?
I’d take a long hard look at Wade as I stated above. Melo still a no go.
So play Melo at the 4 and have TT come off the bench. I could care less about the regular season for his acquision. If Melo comes to play for the Cavs, I’m strictly looking at match ups vs Golden State. And having another guy Golden State has to guard makes it that much tougher for them. If they run they’re “Death Lineup,” then the Cavs have an extra wing to match up. Plus Melo can guard KD so LeBron doesn’t have to as much. Playing Melo next rob LeBron, Kyrie, and Love, makes him that more dangerous. He’s not… Read more »
Despite the narrative.. the regular season matters. Chemistry & habits are EXTREMELY important. I think it would’ve have a better impact on our defense if we took the regular season more serious.
Melo guarding KD?? LOL… KD averaged 28-7-6 on Kawhi in 2016 dude.
We don’t lack firepower. We can’t stop them that’s the problem. How can you win a championship having 4 players on the court be a net negative on defense?
Love isn’t the focal point of the defense here either. He played good, but since he can’t guard people, we don’t have the title this year.
Right and if a SF isn’t guarding KD, he goes off for more. Some guys you can’t stop, but you can at least make them work.
I still don’t know why this is an issue if they’re on a cheap contract.
The regular season matters to a point. At least for the Cavs. Had they not played a historically great team, they would’ve proved it didn’t matter again for them.
This is an oversimplification, but when it’s time to search the bargain bin, the Cavs should just ask themselves “Would this guy fit the culture and play of the Spurs?” If the answer is yes, sign him.
We don’t play like the Spurs though or have a culture like them. We don’t have an offensive system with many plays, nor do we care at all about the regular season. In other words a guy that is perfect for the well oiled machine that is the Spurs may not be as productive in our more, shall we say, improvisational system and laid back team.
I agree that the systems are different, I guess I’m more focused on the mentality.
Good to have character guys. However, I don’t worry about that as much on this team. JR is an example.
ARCH I WOULD BE HAPPY WITH THAT TOO—–NO MENTION OF ” ENCHILAD ” IF WE COULD GET ON A RELATIVELY BARGAIN PRICE …STILL THINK HE IS A SOLID ROLE PLAYER ——HAYWARD INDICATING QUITE POSSIBLY HIS DECIION WIL BE BASED ON WHETHER OR NOT JAZZ REISGN GEORGE HILL
I like Derrick Williams, but I’m not sure he’ll get the minutes he needs.
I want the Cavs to resign Korver, bring over Cedi, and see if they can convince PJ Tucker to take a coupl million. Then hope Melo gets bought out.
EG, what’s your hope for the Cavs over the next few days? Or perhaps more pertinently, what do you think will actually happen? Kind of like a game day score prediction except with players !
Re-sign La Flama Blanca, try to move Shump and/or Channing for another wing defender, wait for Knicks and Bulls to buy out Melo and Wade respectively (although Wade probably won’t be until the trade deadline mid-season)…
Danny Green for Shump matches salary ;)
Really hope the Celtics can’t get Hayward or George. Also looking to see which veterans fall through the cracks and maybe settle for bargain deals that give them roles on contenders.
I kind of expect them to get both now. Signing Hayward and trading for PG. They have a ton of trade assets to trade for George and have enough cap space to sign Hayward before that.
If the Celts get Hayward, then they’re getting PG.
…and still not enough to beat us.
Probably not, but they’re pushing us 6-7 games.
I could see that.
Iggy supposedly meeting with Spurs at stroke of midnight. He loves to troll, and I expect this is more trolling, but ya never know..,
If someone were to offer Iggy $16-18 million a year, do the Warriors match?
I think KD is willing to take a paycut of around 4mil to accomodate Iggy so he wouldn’t lose that much if he stays.
On my personal feeling, I want GS to be the same team, From KD to the bench. Full strength. I want us to beat the hell out of this exact same team.
They’re gonna be in cap hell!
Haha, IDGAF. I really wan’t to beat them at full strength BAD!!!
ALMOST LIKE NEW YEARS —–SHOULD WE HAVE A “SPALDING NBA BASKETBALL ” DROPPED AT MIDNIGHT —-RUMORS OF A KY FOR HILL FOR GEORGE ON NBA RUMORS ….WHO THE HELL KNOWS WHAT WILL UNVEIL —-IT IS FRIDAY NIGHT / NO GRANDKIDS OVER / JUST GOT DONE DEVOURING MY FAVORITE CHINESE / MRS NOMAD IS RESTED AND READY SO YOU GUYS CAN STAY UP PAST MIDNIGHT …..I HAVE OTHER / BETTER PLANS …WILL READ ABOUT IT TOMORROW ……………………STILL THINK THE CAVS MAY HAVE INTENTIONALLY NOT SIGNED CHAUNCEY TO ALLOW HIM TO BE FREE TO TALK WITH PLAYERS
Ky for Hill is impossible under cba. So forget that one.