Podcap: Warriors 118, Cavs 108 (or, Early Dreams… Late Nightmares)
2018-01-16https://soundcloud.com/ctb-5/episode-156-or-early-dreams-late-nightmares
For a half, the Cavaliers realized their dreams of taking it to the Golden State Warriors and changing their regular MLK Day fate of seasons past. Unfortunately, those dreams went dark in a nightmarish fourth quarter that saw them miss 14 of their first 15 shots. In the end, the final score was decidedly closer than the previous two MLK Massacres, but the Cavs had a fourth straight loss (9th in the last 12 games) to show for their efforts. Yet, at least the effort was there for the most part, especially in the first three quarters. It’s just clear there’s a lot more rust to knock off of Isaiah Thomas… as well as more tinkering with the rotations for Tyronn Lue to do.
Speaking of Lue, Nate and EG jumped into their own lucid dream/recurring nightmare about how much of the current state of the Cavs is or isn’t Ty’s fault, how much longer he should be patrolling the sidelines, and whether or not he’s even the one in control of things. They also delve into interpretations of what the Cavs can do to improve, read the tea leaves on whether or not the team will make a trade and try to determine why January basketball in Cleveland has to be so nightmarish at times. The good news is that we both think things will ultimately get better…
As always, you can listen above, on on Soundcloud, Apple Podcasts or Google Play.
Hood (25 pts on 9-16 shooting, 4-9 from three, with 8 boards, two assists and two steals) and Favors (14 pts, 11 boards) looked pretty good tonight…
Looks like Kay Felder is “coming home,” as he signed a two-way deal with the Pistons.
So to beat a dead horse, what would you be willing to offer for Anthony Davis?
If we were to have him for more than 2 seasons, I would love either 1st round pick, Love and TT. Sucks for Love, but Davis is on a different level.
*I would offer
Cavs don’t have enough to offer. Pels would laugh at that. Davis is an MVP caliber talent with an injury history.
He is basically untouchable.
I’d give them an entire stable of unicorns.
What do you think the Cavs could trade for Durant or Harden?
Ray Felton has the physique of a playground player who really, really, really likes Budweiser…
where is ‘killer shrimp” -‘ “/ orange mamba “—” big eddy Tavares “—when you need them —-man that line up scared the hell out of everyone ———HERE AT CTB !!!
You need to join this one MikeO…
http://www.greatbritishflorist.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/val2017anti.jpg
I’m in…my delight would be immense if DRose was picked up by the Celtics and was getting 20 minutes a game…
The Rose brigade is already out (on other forums, not here), since he’s back soon. Absolutely insufferable. If he comes out and scores 16 empty points, the Rose stans will be bringing the ‘See?????’ garbage. He can not be off this team too soon.
Rose Brigade? Such a thing exists?
Huh… I guess so…
Sadly, yes…it might not be insane if he didn’t suck…
Sure agree. I was never a Poison fan, but their Every Rose Has Its Thorn song title is applicable. Or in DRose’s case multiple offense puncturing thorns
agree with evil (most of you)on favors / hood –for t.t. / shump and OUR PICK—even throw in drose
I don’t love it. Not enough shooting, too many pending free agents.
Hood shoots almost 39% from three, is long at 6’8, plays solid D and still has a year left on his deal… Favors would be a big upgrade over TT in the front court…
Rather have Baze and Dedmon TBH.
All the same to me really… the Utah guys are younger, but the Hawks guys offer more years of control…
And Hood’s career three pt average is almost .3 higher than Crowder. More legit from deep, as Jae’s almost 40% last year was clearly an anomaly. Favors has offensive moves that are way beyond TT. And Favors never has switched shooting hands……so he hears that going for him
Wait… you just defended Favors over TT on Twitter… ?
He is better than TT. That’s for sure. I just like Baze/Dedmon better.
OK I GET IT —“TRADES “—I “PANICKED ” WHEN I POSTED —
Wow 260 posts already after a regular season recap. That number has to be fairly high on the list. This blog commentariat is hard core.
We’re trying to get up to Trump’s real weight.
Nice. I would guess he is around 275 and not what the doc claimed.
If he were really 6’3″, he’d easily break 270 bills…since he is clearly 6’1″, he’s probably in the 260s….
Lots of McDonalds does that regardless of the height !
Lol. Considering his fast food obsession and the fact that he doesn’t look like he has exercised in 30 years, I think we have about 40 more posts to go. I wouldn’t be surprised if he is near Taft territory. Also no way his resting heart rate is 68. I would guess more around 84.
Agree John B. I run marathons as does Simmo, and do about 40 miles per week while training for one. My resting heart rate is 66, Can’t remember the last Big Mac I had either. Nice for this diversion instead of the Brooklyn pick angst
Sorry Mike, just saw this. 68bpm did make me laugh. Anyone with a basic understanding of human physiology would know Trump’s resting HR would be 90-odd. 140 when he watches CNN or MSNBC.
An extreme case of fat weighing less than muscle.
HEY THERE IS OUR “RIM ” PROTECTOR ——TALK “Z” OUT OF RETIREMENT ——–SIMMO—THINK THAT WAS A COPLIMENT / AGREEMENT ???
Spot on, Nomad – one of the rare instances I was working on multiple levels ;)
https://twitter.com/FOXSportsOH/status/953760109091418113
According to CBS mock draft, with the 27th pick: Shai Gilgeious-Alexander, Kentucky (CG)
Gilgeous-Alexander was a rare sub-30 high school prospect for Kentucky. But he’s emerged as the Wildcats’ third-leading scorer and one of their most reliable players. The 6-6 combo guard is averaging 11.5 points and 4.3 assists in 29.5 minutes per game. He doesn’t take a lot of 3-pointers. But he does make 45.0 percent of his attempts
That was… Random.
that nets pick HAS VALUE !!—–have to go in any negotiations with that mindset—-NO PANIC / APPEASE LEBRON TARDES !!!
Buenas tardes, Nomad!
Favors and Hood wouldn’t be bad pickups for TT, Shump and a pick… although I’d still believe it would have to be Cavs own pick rather than Nets pick…
https://twitter.com/AmicoHoops/status/953730326790066176
I’d do that all day, no idea why Jazz would. Maybe they have brain damage, though…
They’re trying to trade Favors since he can walk in the off season… Hood’s behind Donovan Mitchell, so somewhat expendable for them if they’re trying to amass first round picks…
Fair point regarding Hood, I didn’t really think of that…
I would do this deal with our own pick too.
Would you do Nets pick+ salary fillers(TT+Shump+) for Schroeder and Dedmon ? GM can save his job by not having to pick another Anthony Bennett.
No, Schroeder doesn’t help much… and you can hold off on the cheap shots… Bennett was two GMs ago…
No way I’d trade the Nets pick for any non needle movers…
Schroder is one of the worst high usage players in the league. Baze more is decent
brazen. You know Ben Werth writes for this blog
I heard about Favors on the radio driving home. Apparently Woj was discussing it, however I couldn’t find anything on his Twitter feed.
Yeah I wouldn’t give up the Nets pick for that package.
What can Cavs do to get Anthony Davis? Rumors have it he’s potentially on the trading block. Could TT + Shump + the Nets pick get it done? The money works, according to the trade machine. And to me – Davis is DEFINITELY worth the pick. I’m slightly worried about giving up the pick + Love for Davis…
I am with you on that, but they will likely demand Love and who knows what. I have been hoping for a miracle to get Davis here ever since the Cavs almost won that lottery for him. As I recall, there were a couple ties, and another draw that got the Cavs Dion. Bummer.
The best hope is that AD wants to play with LeBron, and has made it known to mgmt. That is not out of the question. Playing with Boogie might make him realize he wants to be with the AntiBoogie.
Maybe if we gave them BOTH first round picks. To me – given that only a couple of picks turn into halfway decent players each draft – it’s definitely worth it to trade 2 first rounders and some under-performing defensive players for a superstar.
The Cavs cannot give up both picks due to the Stepien rule. The Cavs don’t have the assets to get Davis, even if the Pels were willing to trade him.
Love and either first round pick plus TT. Make it happen.
The Cavs would need three Nets picks to get that done. TT and Shump are negarive assets. Shump because he’s not good and his contract, and TT because of his contract and he’s a niche player who is not very valuable in the current NBA.
The only team that *might* be able to tempt the Pels is Boston, and I don’t think the Pels are trading Davis for anything this year, anyway. Next year, possibly…
No. He’s not in the block. And if he was the Celtics would outbid the Cavs in a heartbeat. But again, he’s not available.
Stephen A was yammering about the Cavs trading for AD today. Unfortunately, he knows less than Marla.
What’s your beef with Marla?
petrovic was borderline superstar —-talk about a beautiful shooting stroke / and range —-wow —-yeah WAY TOO YOUNG !!!!
I just realized I think I grabbed Danny Ainge in NBA2K18. I also have Drazen Petrovic, who is a beast! I watched some footage of him yesterday, and it’s too bad he passed away at 28.
We’ve been here before, another January, another Cavs midwinter soap opera. 1. IT has been 5’8” his entire career and he’s proven to be one of the most prolific scorers in the NBA on a team where he was almost the only offensive option. I don’t see why that would change especially playing along side the greatest player ever and K Love. 2. Kyrie was obviously not all in and if you’re not all in then it’s best that you’re all out. 3. It’s not any fun to watch and less fun to admit, but the Cavs vets have a… Read more »
IT is pretty useless against the Warriors. Also, the Cavs vets may not ‘care’, but they see the writing on the wall. Guarantee you that one of the Cavs ‘marquee’ players that spoke to several Cavs beat writers after that game expressing the opinion that the Cavs don’t have it this year is Lebron. Cavs are no sure thing to get out of the East without a trade of some sort. And they’d have to to probably get Paul George to have a puncher’s chance vs the Dubs. Doubt Lebron is too interested in going to the Finals and having… Read more »
Marla should write for KingJamesGospel.
Shump, Rose, IT, TT, Crowder. Yikes. That could be our starting 5 next year… BARF!!!!
No way Rose is in Cleveland next year…
Every Rose has it’s thorn!
I am hoping he finds somewhere else this year.
Nets pick will start
That’s what people said about Anthony Bennett…and I guess he did start…well played…
What about Love?
WE MAY HAVE A HEALTHY ROSTER, WELL PHYSICALLY HEALTHY:
https://twitter.com/joevardon/status/953689683233591296
I meant to post this one here:
https://twitter.com/joevardon/status/953686582783037442
Ughh.
NOMAD your boy is back! /s
https://twitter.com/joevardon/status/953689683233591296
https://twitter.com/MZavagno11/status/953693688005386241
Well, I’m heading to the Q tomorrow night. Hope LeBron scores 41 in a victory.
I’ll take a victory any old way.
Me too! He just needs 41 to get 30,000.
I just saw that. Hope he gets to 41!
IDK… Marla’s story feels like just a rehash of all the story threads we already know… there’s no real insight or speculation on what’s going on… just a regurgitation of the national storylines. Gilbert is an easy target. Nobody really seems to want to go after LeBron…
totally agree on this take…people are already doing comparisons to Kyrie/IT even though IT has played 15% of a season. a lot of people praised this trade when it happened, not just on this site but nationally. i need to see more and also see if/when trade happens what impact is before drawing a definitive conclusion on what happens in postseason and beyond. too much speculation.
I think IT is better than what we’ve seen as of recent, in the regular season. I maintain he is a liability in the playoffs. Kyrie>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>IT (in the playoffs). I think Kyrie has averaged like 34 points against the Dubs (in wins) vs. Klay Thompson, who is one of the better defenders in the league. No way IT scores that much, unless he takes 100 shots. I don’t really see a fit for him on this team. I’d say he could run the second unit, but we have Wade, who with shooters, much like LeBron, has been effective. I could… Read more »
You gotta sell tickets, I guess, so I could see Gilbert signing IT, but I don’t see any team giving him the max. If the Cavs did that, they’d be bidding against themselves. If IT finishes the season strong, and shows his injury isn’t affecting him, my guess is he gets around $18 mill per, maybe a three year deal.
Corby will throw a Brinks truck at him.
Very strong critique of the Cavs situation by Marla Ridenour of the Beacon Journal. Basically what I have felt and said below. Her opening paragraph: “The Cavs front-office chaos of last summer looks to be blowing up in owner Dan Gilbert’s face.” Wonder if Marla will get called on at the next post game presser?
No she won’t.
I don’t agree with her take about going all in. To me the goal is competing every year not just this one and moving the Brooklyn pick doesn’t do that. It just leaves a scorched earth. And I am cognizant that I used to say the opposite. I changed my mind.
Agree Nate that moving the Brooklyn pick is debatable given who is available, but I believe Marla nailed everything else in her analysis.
I don’t think a pick that will probably end up between 6-10 is going to make much of a difference in our rebuild. The only way the Cavs become a contender post-LeBron is by tanking for a few years and getting lucky that our top 3 picks turn into superstars. There is no other alternative. That is the modern day NBA unless you are a large market. No free agents will come to Cleveland again. I think it would be a giant mistake to stand pat, sit on the Brooklyn pick, and basically ensure that the Cavs don’t put another… Read more »
Waiting to hear who you think is available and worth the Nets pick…
If there is nobody available and we stand pat because no player is close to being worth a top 10 draft pick, then sure, no big deal. But my point is that I think it’s a huge mistake if our FO chooses not to trade the pick simply in fear of LeBron leaving. In MY opinion (they’re like buttholes..), I don’t think the potential value of the Brooklyn pick (which is far less than it was when we made the trade IMO) is anywhere close to “don’t go for it this year because LeBron might leave” value.
You didn’t answer my question… I want to know who you think is worth the Nets pick…
You asked who was available AND worth the Nets pick. How would I know who is available? Do you? Give me a list of available players and I’ll answer your question.
We’ve given lists and suggestions in stories and podcasts… you seem so adamant about moving the pick… I want to hear who you think would be worth it…
Yeah, I’m not going to go back and listen to hours of podcasts to hear who you think is available – I think we can both agree that if you want an answer to your question (which you never put in question form, actually), you can quickly provide a list of who you think is available. If you want an answer to your question, provide a list of potential available players. It’s pretty simple.
Okay, how about just this pod? Or maybe y’know follow the NBA? But sure… to recap some of the more recent ones that were brought up (even in this particular pod which I now somehow doubt you listened to in the first place) guys like DeAndre Jordan, Marc Gasol, George Hill, Kent Bazemore and Dwayne Dedmon, Nik Vucevic, etc. What’s pretty simple is that if you’re going to INSIST that the Cavs not be scared and go all in with the Nets pick… maybe you have in mind someone they should be targeting with said pick… Come up with your… Read more »
I don’t think I’d move the pick for any of the players you listed. I don’t know Gasol’s cntract situation, or the Fizdale firing connection, but I may be able to be talked into him. But probably not.
Nor would I… but then again, I’m not advocating moving the Nets pick for any of them. If there was a way to get Gasol and Conley or Tyreke, then maybe. Also, maybe there’s a bigger deal for DeAndre where they move TT and Shump and get back another decent piece (although the best one would have been Beverly who is out for the year unfortunately).
Totally agree!
EG, you want to turn down the jerk volume? Sorry if you are offended by me voicing an objective opinion about what I feel the Cavs should do. At what point in my post was I “just complaining mindlessly”? Literally nowhere. You responded with a pretty crappy tone to my pretty objective response. Your latest reply is simply condescending garbage. Do YOU follow the NBA? I do. Which is exactly why I think it’s a mistake for the Cavs to throw the towel in on this season with the GOAT on the roster so that we can “spark a rebuild”… Read more »
I would absolutely move the Brooklyn picks for Marc Gasol. I wouldn’t hesitate for a second. I am on the fence about DJ – he would help defensively. If we could also unload TT’s contract, I would probably be on board. Would not move it for Dedmon, Hill, Bazemore or Vucevik.
No one out there that we could actually get moves the needle against gs much. We can’t get anyone that would give us a great shot against them. George maybe fits the best of the guys that could get moved, but he still doesn’t make us favorites. Not even close. Also he isn’t getting traded.
I’d add Jamal Murray to your list.
Jamal Murray looks like a promising player, and you might be right. I’m on the fence with that one.
A smell a “The jerk store called” meme…
“I smell”… okay gotta get off my iPhone. Or disable autocorrect.
Maybe revisit your own tone. I’m not offended, just amused at your lack of willingness to offer any sort of options for the pick. And, I don’t need a list of guys who fall 6-10 in the past… how about guys that might fall 6-10 in THIS next draft which could possibly be the best one since 2003…
Sorry if you were offended… but you’re welcome to put the work in yourself sometime…
What work didn’t I put in? Your tone was crap from the first time you “asked” me who I thought was worth the Nets pick. Let’s not live in fantasy land where I somehow refused to answer a normal question and asked you to put in the work. Didn’t happen. What actually happened is that I didn’t volunteer a list of available players after your condescending first comment. You’re right though, this draft is going to be the greatest draft in 15 years and we definitely should stand pat with a pick that historically carries very little chance at franchise-changing… Read more »
Lol… and yet still no suggestions of your own on players you think are worth the pick…
Whatever Gordon. Have a nice day.
No clue why you are vehemently holding onto this idea that I should have thrown out a list of random players who may or may not be available in a trade. The entire essence of my first comment was that the front office shouldn’t refrain from moving the pick out of fear that LeBron will leave and that we will need it to jump start a rebuild. That point can be valid with or without a list of potential players that may or may not be available in a trade.
Hopefully Trae Young….
I know that is wishful thinking, but I can dream.
If Paul George were available, I’d move the pick. But as we get closer and closer to the deadline, I’d be less willing. There’s only so much time to gel.
Take a deep breath. It is unlikely that anyone chooses to keep the pick or trade the pick. The decision is based on if a GOOD DEAL is offered.
The only guy in my opinion is Paul George in the event he becomes available. He is the one guy that would give the Cavs a shot at beating the Dubs. Well, he or CJ McCollum, but that’s a pipe dream.
Mike, I edited your comment and put the link to Marla’s story in hypertext because it was messing up the comments layout…
Thanks much, EG.
Well this won’t be the last time Dan Gilbert puts his foot in his mouth. I thought he learned once LeBron returned to the LAND. Apparently, he just can’t get out of his own way. I suspect he was probably miffed that Griffin got as much credit as he deserved for the championship, so now he’s like “Now I’m the Captain.” Well Captain Ding Dong, your ship is sinking!
https://twitter.com/World_Wide_Wob/status/953506113168773121
The coach killers.
That is unfair to AD. He has never been a coach killer, quite the opposite. Obviously it fits the other two.
He’s on the album.
https://twitter.com/BillDoyle15/status/953477892209565697
I actually appreciate that Rondo doesn’t like anyone and no one likes Rondo. Kinda endearing to me
Used to work in a lab a while ago, the whole crew of 30-40 staff got along great. Then a complete a-hole started working there. Lasted a year before he was forced out against his will, giving legal threats to everyone on the way out the door. The relief was so big we all threw a party later that week. Had a t-shirt made up for everyone to wear in his honour (forgive the nerd humour, it was a med lab): “I don’t get along with anybody. I’m an antibody!”. Get the feeling crews do this when Rondo moves too.
Are their any head coaches out there that we could bring in right now that might light a fire under these guys? Or has that ship sailed?
Corby has his plan in place.
Arch doubling down… lol
Fizdale
Safe to say we won’t be seeing Afflolo next game after throwing a haymaker and getting made to look like a child by Bjelica.
https://twitter.com/cjzero/status/953428899886755840
What a moron.
Aaron Afflalo is a dope. I’ve never thought much of him.
Mike on Boogie
https://twitter.com/Mike_CTBIPL/status/953448713422364672
I’d like to see if Corby can manage some personalities. Maybe that will help with team chemistry. This was something I thought Griffin had done well.
I think his name is Koby. I assume you are past ninth grade, so maybe you can retire the fake name stuff now after 100 times and no one has laughed yet.
Will they serve Kool-Aid in high school?
Maybe you can teach me some funny jokes Raoul? You seem like a real FUN guy!
I think it’s kind of funny, but I’m 12.
Raoul +1
this is what losing does to a sports blog – stop turning on each other – it’s what the Warriors want!
CAVS WILL GET A “HOT ” MAGIC TEAM—-THEY JUST DEFEATED THE TIMBERWOLVES—–NO GARANTEE OF A “W” ON THURS
R.I.P. JO-JO WHITE —–ANYONE OLD ( LIKE ME ) REMEMBERS THE JOY ( YES HE WAS A CELTIC ) OF WATCHING HIM PLAY —-STRONG / PULL UP JUMP SHOT ANYWHERE/ ANYTIME / ON A DIME
Sad to see. Jo Jo was immortalized here:
https://cavstheblog.com//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////?p=35862
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22110844/how-cleveland-cavaliers-san-antonio-spurs-handled-trade-demands-worlds-apart
Saw that. Somewhat discouraging. However, Griffin was gone before this, so not exactly apples to apples.
Also I think most guys that play for pop at this point consider Pop’s word to pretty much be the word of god when it comes to what their futures will be with SA. If he says you aren’t getting traded, you aren’t getting traded.
I doubt anyone doubts what the Spurs would do with holdouts. They would let them sit on principle. I doubt any organization other than them has the institutional strength or confidence from their fans to do that.
I think it’s garbage though. Kyrie has wanted a trade for years. Comparing apples to oranges. I hate ESPN and all of their “stories.”
Yeah he’s wanted a trade for years, which is why he’s signed a max deal in 2014.
Seriously? You weren’t able to infer that clearly I was talking about the rumors that he’s been unhappy since LeBron came back? You know, that event that happened AFTER Kyrie signed his max extension? Come on, man.
We that’s your butthole! I mean your opinion….
“Well”
a lot of people thought he might turn down the max deal or the Cavs wouldn’t offer the max deal. There has always been noise out of Kyrie’s camp (his dad) that he wasn’t happy in Cleveland.
need to market the ‘ POST GAME COMMENTS PULL THE STRING TY DOLL “—-sell them at the cavs games —can pull the string during timeouts or all in unison during halftime
have to watch the film —–or blank stare —–
That’s a good one too! He and Hue love that line!
When’s the Chris Paul-Austin Rivers steel cage match?
What are your favorite Ty Lue media remarks?
– Play with pace
– Be agressive
– Other
Be aggressive is an ol’ coaching classic. Guys were using that one back in the days when coaches wore a turnip on their belt, which was the style of the time.
“Play with pace” must be what the Millenials are using. Lue is in touch with the kiddos these days.
Lol
Ask Tyronn Lue who is the best team in the Eastern Conference and he’ll tell you it’s his Cleveland Cavaliers, no matter how rough their recent struggles have been.
Why?
“Because we’ve got the best player in the world,” Lue said before the Cavs lost to the Golden State Warriors 118-108 on Martin Luther King Jr. Day.
Meh. I prefer “Be Agressive.”
He isn’t wrong, yet. Until Boston can prove it, that is.
LeBron is no longer the best player in the league. He can’t use that as his measuring stick.
He is. Maybe not in the regular season, but definitely in the playoffs.
Agree with Arch. I think he is neck and neck with Durant. I don’t think the cavs are as good in the playoffs with Durant in place of James. I think it would be a wash with James on gs instead of Durant in the playoffs.
In my opinion Durant overplayed him during last year’s finals. If we meet again, I’m sure he’ll do the same this year.
Durant has a much easier path in the finals than LeBron.
LeBron is, by a wide margin, the best player in the NBA in the playoffs.
I don’t think it is by a wide margin anymore. People said that for years about Kobe, even though LBJ was better by his third season. I am not a reputation guy. Durant was incredible last year in the finals. He has taken another step defensively. They are close. I still give the due to LBJ if they perform similarly in the finals. If Durant way outperforms him, I will give it to Durant.
I’m not sure Kobe was ever the best player in the league?
I don’t necessarily disagree. But he was top three, and the perception he was lasted a long time, far beyond even when there was any observable evidence to back that up and it was all based on the cult of Kobe and his “rep.” Most of the time the reputation a guy has for being the best player lasts longer than the actual reality.
That is a real old school mentality. “Jordan is the best because he is,” and because few guys writing saw Wilt and Russell (and early Jabar) every game (no tv coverage). The mythos and legend often overrides reality, especially with Jordan and Kobe. That is my point.
I don’t think. Kobe was ever the best player on his own team – at least not the championship years.
No way I’d agree ‘wide margin’. I’d say ‘first among equals’ if anything.
My favorite is “…because I want to.” Lue’s standard bs response to rotation questions.
That’s a good one too. A good way to be a father figure to the reporter too.
I despise Lue’s rotations. Its so easy – swap JR with Cedi and swap TT with Frye and we’re good. Why cant he just do it??
don’t worry—SHUMP / DROSE on their way ” to save the day “—man ty’s rotations when they come back will really be a total mess—hey —- DON’T CARE !!
Just in the middle of listening now…I like George Hill, but at 6’3″ he’s not the defensive wing they really need. Of course I’d rather Hill play than Rose or Calderon, but to me he’s a nice to have guy, rather than a need to have guy…and on a big contract. No way would I toss in the Nets pick for him.
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ycvw52mv . A couple good IT games, and you could talk the kings into this without the Cleveland pick, just to get IT back and sell tickets… maybe. How about Cleveland’s 2020 first rounder too?
Combined with this for the Cavs’ First rounder? Suddenly you have a starting backcourt of Baze and Hill, and Dedmon at Center starting or off the bench. Suddenly, LeBron is surrounded by guys who can shoot.
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yaha96tm
Particularly like the first trade
First trade. But the Kings won’t.
Why? They don’t want hill. They’re benching him.
I don’t think they would want IT enough to bring in Rose and JR with him. Unless they just think they can trade them both to someone else. Rose went on a sabbatical while playing for a championship contender team. You think he’s going to even show up for practice for the Kings? JR’s reputation will always be that of a trouble maker. Kings got rid of Cousins for the same reason. No need to bring that back in. I think Zz is a (or rather could be if he played) better player than Koufos, so I guess that’s strengthen… Read more »
Rose is a minimum contract easily waived.
I would do the first trade so quickly you’d see scorch marks…
But suddenly Lebron is the only guy that can score in ISO playoff situations consistently. Love can’t consistently. In other words, Lebron has to shoulder more of the scoring load in the playoffs than he ever has in the 2.0 era. You need a second guy besides LBJ like Irving or IT that can get their own shot all the time. You don’t need that in the regular season, but I think this particular team needs that in the playoffs.
Also Bazemore can’t shoot. This is his career year and he is still only at .391. I fully expect him to cool off in the second half. He is a career 35% 3p shooter and a career 42 percent from the field. He is not great. Hill is undeniably a nice piece but not a huge difference maker for this team. Dedmon is ok an piece because of the career year he is having (Mozgov 2.0, except not as good of a rim protector). LBJ would have another great career shooter if Lue would play Frye instead of TT. Problem… Read more »
“only” 39%!
https://twitter.com/oldseaminer/status/953402021381632000
This was the funniest thing I’ve ever seen on inside the NBA https://twitter.com/World_Wide_Wob/status/953159884064854016
Shaq’s reaction was priceless.
Not trying to argue here, just seeking information. Why is everyone so convinced that LeBron runs the show? I’m at the point where I believe it, but I don’t know whether that’s because it’s true or just because I’ve heard it so many times.
It’s all about speculations. The eye test tells me, and I’m not the only one, that JR Smith is at the moment, not a good basketball player – at least not a starter on a championship contender. Also, Tristan was out of shape and playing horrible basketball before he got hurt. After he went out, the Cavs went on a tear and won 18 of 19 games with a second unit who was playing phenomenal. With those two facts made, it’s unclear why Coach Lue, along with his coaching staff, has decided to keep JR in the starting lineup and… Read more »
I think in the meta sense Lebron runs the show. I doubt he decides who starts, or whatever, other than maybe b!tching to Lue if somebody isn’t getting it done in Lebron’s eyes.
But if that was the case, wouldn’t it be Frye getting TT’s minutes?
Klutch>Whoever reps Frye
According to Griff that’s not true at all. Who knows.
Cavs played well yesterday. So much of focus on Durant+Curry, but yesterday after quarter 3, dubs lead only by 2pts. Warriors ran away with the game in 4th quarter by playing these players for 6 minutes, to go on something like 17-6 run. Klay, Dray, Iguodala, West, Livingston and Young. From ESPN recap: “For three quarters, the Cavs matched the Warriors shot for shot. But with Durant and Curry on the bench, a Golden State lineup of Andre Iguodala, Draymond Green, David West, Klay Thompson and Shaun Livingston stretched the lead. “That unit, they won us the game with their… Read more »
Um no. They won cause the Cavs were out of shape, didn’t run an offense, and jacked up a lot of bad shots. The Warriors were OK, not great.
Oh, and Isaiah was garbage in the second half.
@Warriorsfan- the Dubs without Curry and Durant wouldn’t make it past Minnesota. So no, it wouldn’t be an “undeniable great, defensively” team. The reason why they are as good defensively is because the opposing team has to play extremely hard to match their offense and it tires them out. Sorry but you don’t get to tell us how great they would be without two HOF on their team in their prime. That’s just gloating. As far as yesterday, you’re correct that the Cavs will benefit from playing better defensive players. One of those is Cedi Osman, who could be a… Read more »
+1
“the Dubs without Curry and Durant wouldn’t make it past Minnesota.”
We have to agree to disagree. Warriors rarely played without both. Only proof is lineup stats which has two lineups with net rating of 35, the same lineups that clinched in 4th for dubs yesterday.
https://stats.nba.com/lineups/advanced/?Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612744&CF=GROUP_NAME*NE*curry:GROUP_NAME*NE*Durant:MIN*GE*15&sort=NET_RATING&dir=1
Dude, those are lineups within the game, not actual teams. A team led by Draymond and Klay, with a bunch of role players, wouldn’t make it past current Minnesota. Neither Dray nor Klay like to lose, have them lose 3-4 games in a row and see how they’ll mentally crumble.
Your comment was idiotic and you were just gloating.
Said, we have to agree to disagree. You are underestimating Klay+Dray aided by great vet role players in Iguodala+Livingston+West+Omri+Zaza+Young and then youth in Bell+Looney +McCaw and coached by Kerr. I watch every dubs game and I believe ub what I believe, that is they can get past most teams without Curry and Durant. There may be only 5 teams in the association they will have trouble winning without those two.
Yup, agree to disagree.
Thanks for “Dubsplaining” to us yokels (also, this is the most ridiculous thing you’ve ever said – taking these two who’ve won three of the last four mvps and when is all said and done could be either one or two at their position all-time – off the Dubs and replacing them with quality role players is still good enough to get you past San Antonio or Houston – who I think could beat the dubs now… Argh. I took the bait)
I said about 5 teams warriors may not get past without those two.
Yes, Warriors were as beatable ever, 3rd game on east coast trip and coming off tough win at raptors.
But, it is undeniable fact that warriors without Curry and Durant can put up a formidable line up, a great defensive unit. If Cavs role players match warriors then they will be competitive in finals. If Cavs are not trading Nets pick or Love, they should focus on getting some defensive role players.
I don’t understand the point you’re trying to make. Yes we know the Warriors are currently better than the Cavs. that much seems obvious. I wouldn’t call non-Curey/Durant lineups “undeniably great, defensively.” There’s plenty of deniability there, and not much you could tell cause Cavs were crap in second half off bench.
Also, the Dubs get away with more fouls and get more fouls than any team right now. I Mean that Korver block on West is a prime example.
Nate, refs are pretty bad this year, both teams got bad calls.
As per the point I am trying to make, Cavs will do good if they move past they can’t beat warriors because of Durant acquisition and focus on getting some good role players to compete with dubs.
Again. I don’t understand what point you’re trying to make. That the Cavs can compete with the dubs if they get better role players?
btw, on that bad call by refs you are referring here, West got the ball back and put it in basket. So, no call would have resulted in 2 pts too – so no impact to the game.
After everyone stopped playing…
That is not true, I just replayed and saw that instance again.
#FakeNews
lol
The role players are not the issue. Kerr knows the starters and bench plus one or two of Curry/Durant and Thompson/green has a vastly higher ceiling than our starters and our lineups of Lebron plus bench or love/IT plus bench. I don’t normally buy into talent always wins argument, but in this case it does and always will. The warriors were sloppy last night too and didn’t throw the defense they are capable of playing at the cavs. That isn’t because of their bench. It is because of lineups featuring Curry/Durant plus Thompson/Green and bench. The bench lineup plus Green… Read more »
The Cavs are fat. Maybe they should go on Delly’s fitness routine…
Where is Whats-His-Name to yammer on about how everyone is fat?
Hope he is banned for life. Degraded an awesome platform
As that was happening, IT and Wade were shooting horrible shot selection with tired legs. Our moronic coach should had gone to his bench and used Frye, KK and Cedi to match the intensity.
Cavs played ok. They did a lot of dumb things the in the second half. However, Kerr didn’t really have his foot on the throttle for any of the game. He had rookies guarding James for much of it. Didn’t use his best lineups anywhere near as much as he will or could in the playoffs. In other words the warriors have too much talent and won despite resting guys. Enjoy your automatic ship. Fun.
Also why are you quoting an espn recap? We can read and most of us watched the game.
C’mon John, he had to stop by for a humblebrag. And as always to offer advice. We need to think of a word like “mansplaining” for GSW fans who feel their organisation has some amazing basketball insight.
I know. It is annoying. Guy or gal is the king of passive aggressive posting and humble brags.
“Dubsplaining”
Was only able to watch the first half, which left me feeling like a ten point loss was the best possible outcome for the Cavs at this time (winning would have given them the false impression that they were actually playing well, but losing by a few lets hope live.) That’s still my take, but the possibility that the Dubs were taking it easy plus the news about internal team doubts makes me worried. Yesterday, I think it was Mike O who gave the Cavs at best a 20% chance to win the title. As a Cleveland sports fan, I… Read more »
sim you make some very valid pts —-I just think ( as I mentioned earlier ) that when Durant signed last year with the dubs –that pretty much ( WHEN THEY WANT TO ) be unbeatable and yes kerr does a a lot better job of utilizing ALL of his bench –even in close games —THAT IS CALLED COACHING —–TRUST !!!
u can observe from last night that the cavs can absolutely compete with gs, theres one problem and that is get a new coach that will sit the bad/useless/ineffective players and only play the effective ones= tt and jr out and insert cedi and frye, plus we”l have thomas hitting at least 2-3 more of those threes, plus a normal coach gets on his players for taking stupid shots – wade mid-range, green jumpers. EVEN IF U JUST MAKE THOSE FEW SIMPLE ADJUSTMENTS WE WOULD HAVE AT LEAST A COMPETITIVE FINALS, anybody agree that these adjustments would make the difference… Read more »
I AM GOING TO MAKE A “GUESS ” THAT A COUPLE OF THOSE DISENCHANTED / UPSET PLAYERS ( ANONYMOUS ) ARE FRYE AND KEV—THINK BOTH HAVE BEEN QUIET- ( PROFESSIONAL )- LONG ENOUGH —-ARE FED UP WITH IT
NBA drama—they love it —-need it ——–I actually think the dubs somewhat “toyed ” with the cavs —–deep down they were never worried about winning the game —when they decided to switch to “another gear ” they did and we saw the outcome —think deep down if they wanted to win by 20+ they could have—kept it close to “captivate ” the national audience ——evil understand kev’s foul problems but still only what 9 shots and he was ” cooking —-feeling ” it —-just my HOP
The idea that the Dubs took it casual is a thought that lingers with me.
I had the same feeling. The dubs just seemed kind of chill. Like they knew they would win as long as they just kicked it up another notch, which they did in the end.
https://twitter.com/DragonflyJonez/status/953180352926879744
That was hilarious. I just envisioned those guys all pounding a fist into their palm as they prowled the back hallways looking for a rumble…
Too funny. I despise the Rockets, mostly because of the Golden Turd, and even more so with CP3 and D’Antoni, who are turds in their own right. I’m no fan of Griffin or Rivers, but love what they did here. I recorded this game so I’ll have to watch it.
Man. Cavs twitter in full on meltdown mode. It’s like they (along with the Cavs) just realized you can’t beat the Warriors with Isaiah Thomas.
Lol!
Not sure what anyone was expecting from this game. If the Cavs had had one of their typical slow 1st qtr starts they likely would have been down 20 after one quarter. At least they hung with them.
Ha. Though, realistically, nothing would be different with Bledsoe or any other point guard. Even if Kyrie hadn’t demanded a trade, we wouldn’t stand a chance against them. Last year’s finals wouldn’t have been close even if the cavs had been more competitive in game 1 and 2 because Kerr would have made adjustments. We wouldn’t have done any better this year with Irving. In fact, the Warriors probably would have stomped us harder this year and may still since they will have another year of chemistry by the finals. They didn’t show anywhere near their potential yesterday. Kerr didn’t… Read more »
I don’t believe in their inevitability.
I know. You are more of an optimist than me, which is great. I just haven’t seen much of anything that gives me any thoughts otherwise. I don’t mind though. I am resigned to just enjoying the cavs as they are and the ride, wherever that takes this team.
It doesn’t mean they can’t install a system that can get them to overachieve. I just haven’t seen evidence of that yet.
Maybe this is a paranoid fantasy, but anybody else think this could be LBJ’s dastardly long con…?
1) Hint at staying (but not commit) enough to get Gilbert/Altman to trade the Nets pick.
2) Win or lose in playoffs/finals, he leaves in off-season.
3) With no assets for 5 years and inept leadership, Cavs suck so badly that Gilbert sells the team… just as Lebron is retiring.
4) Lebron buys the team (happily paying billions to finally emasculate carpetbagging, Trump-supporting, comic sans,evil goatee Gilbert) just in time to take credit for a rebuild…
http://www.ukpreppersguide.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/keep-calm-and-shhh-46.png
(it’s a secret)
You do have an active imagination. But there are many mysteries surrounding this team. The timing on the Irving trade, for instance (who really blew it: Griffin, Gilbert, Lebron’s camp?) And now these grumblings from “prominent players” to multiple media outlets about talent and fit. Strange.
what was really telling, but not intentional ( at least I don’t think) was Kerr doing the following – starting a 2nd round rookie for the first time against an elite opponent, and just making sure he provides energy and doesn’t mess up the other four guys around him – replacing said 2nd rounder with an undrafted rookie (Looney) who ended up with more points and rebounds than TT and didn’t really mess up – bringing off the bench Nick Young aka Swaggy P, the streakiest shooter in the league and making sure he doesn’t do more than just shoot… Read more »
No they are not. The reason as to why cLUEless doesn’t play them is intriguing.
If it’s because he doesn’t think they’ll help, then he’s an idiot because JR and TT have been horrible.
Is it because he isn’t allowed to by Dan/LeBron? That’s a more difficult question since we will never really know.
So who does your conspiracy have actually running things?
A) Dan?
B) LeBron?
C) Dan and LeBron?
D) Dan and LeBron are the same person, and running things?
E) The Illuminati?
No conspiracy, just either bad coaching or bad ownership. There is no reason, none, why JR and TT should be playing over KK/Cedi and Frye. If JR and TT are playing because Lue thinks that gives the Cavs the best chances to win, then he’s a moron. If they are playing because Dan says he needs to “Get his money’s worth”, then he’s a moron. If they are playing because LeBron controls the franchise, as he once did, then Dan is a moron for allowing it to happen a second time. Yes, I understand LeBron raised the value of the… Read more »
and for the “LOVE ” of g… why does Kevin only get 9 shots ——go figure ??
IT was sucking up a lot of usage in that game (to little effect)….so was Wade….
Kev also had foul trouble early and only played 27 minutes…
Who are you? I’m dying to look you up on IMDB. All I know is you have produced movies, you worked on Punch Drunk Love and you name appears to be Derek.
Steven Spielberg
Derek Hawking Spielberg!
Did my fave movie evar – ‘War Horse’.
I could have sworn when I signed up to write for CtB, you guys told me EG was code for James Cameron…
I think since Nate and EG talked a lot about the Exorcist, I am guessing he is William Friedkin.
Only EG could have created ‘Cruising’.
when Durant signed with the warriors last year that put them on a level of almost unbeatable—-have said this several times ( along with many other bloggers ) DO NOT TRADE THAT NETS PICK (OR ANY DRAFT PICK ) there is not a player (s) out there that we could get in return to allow us to beat the warriors—it is what it is —the T.T. / SWISH signing was “forced ” by LeBron –so he has to live with it ——ty might as well give everyone minutes –he may “stumble ” on some “magical ” lineups —-again ty was… Read more »
This article is exactly what i was saying about irving. Raoul, give it a read. You don’t have to execute a crap trade just because a player wants it. Pop said no and then dealt with the problem. Gilbert cheaped out on griff and left a vaccium of leadership. Gilbert doesn’t deserve to have lebron stay. He stumbled into him twice. http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22110844/how-cleveland-cavaliers-san-antonio-spurs-handled-trade-demands-worlds-apart
Great piece that fully illustrates how an organization should deal with unhappy stars…
Didn’t know that about SAS, but of course they handled it in a way the Comic Sans franchise could only dream about. Once LeBron leaves or retires, the Cavs will go back to irrelevance and ping pong balls. That BRK pick doesn’t excite me, as I’ve seen how this franchise drafts and how they (don’t) develop young talent. I’m glad they won in 2016, but once they let Griff walk and traded Kyrie, I knew the door to future championships was closed.
Thanks for sharing that… the piece also begs the question–one Windhorst of all people should be able to answer–how complicit is LeBron in this? Frankly, the way the Narrative controls (or attempts to control) what we all think of the Cavs, I am not sure I know what to believe. I was more confident the Cavs would work it out with Irving than I was they would get equal immediate value in a trade… but I also like you, \newnomad\–this tea, got old in a hurry, and would a sulking/rejected Kyrie really make up for all their defensive lapses/inefficiencies? The… Read more »
Tom Pestak posted a few days ago that David Griffin said he too would have traded Kyrie, if Irving wasn’t all in. What we’ll never know is whether DG’s better relationship with Kyrie would have led to Irving feeling different about his situation with the Cavs. We always have cavsdan to thank for spending money for the chip, but his demand for control with Griffin couldn’t have come at a worse time. If DG couldn’t reconcile things with Kyrie, I would have much rather have had him engineering a necessary trade.
I doubt Griffin would have done the Boston trade unless Dan made him, but we’ll never know. I imagine he would have looked into trades with other teams.
Word was that the trade for PG13 AND Bledsoe was on the table until talks stalled because Griff was busy trying to get rehired…
If Cavs had gotten those two, we could compete with the Dubs.
The Cavs play the Magic on Thursday. Maybe they can pick up a rare win?!?!
I don’t know. Best move may be to blow it up and tank.
The only way to blow it up is to trade LBJ… and he’s got that no trade clause that he ain’t waiving…
I’m not sure firing Lue right now is the answer. Two years ago was a different story, as Lue was an easy replacement, having been with the team. There isn’t an in-house replacement I feel comfortable with, and trying to bring in someone new now will take too much time. I’m just hoping Corby can trade TT, JR, Shump, and Rose, and maybe even IT. And Lue can use competent rotations. But I have my doubts.
Fizdale
Lue is absolute garbage and has been since day 1. He needs to go.
If the Cavs don’t move the Brooklyn pick in a big time deal to bring back a player or player(s) that can help us drastically improve, then it’s clear to me that LeBron is leaving. This front office is not going to sit on their hands and throw away a chance at a title with the GOAT if they think he would return.
Actually, Lue wasn’t so bad that first year. Check the records and see who won the NBA that year. You might be surprised.
Lue did a great job that first half season. I think his problem is a failure to adapt. He keeps trying to repeat 2016.
I don’t think you listened to the pod… who exactly out there is worth the Nets pick? Trading it for anyone who doesn’t move the needle to beat the Warriors is folly…
EG seemed to somewhat talk Nate off the ledge on Lue. I am still on the ledge with Nate that Lue is a major problem. When the players start questioning the rotations as they have that is reminiscent of Blatt before he was fired. I don’t believe Gilbert will pull the trigger, however, and Altman’s influence is less than Griffin anyway on making a change to the team for not being galvanized.
Lue might be a major problem, but is the part and parcel of the price you pay for LeBron and his desire for control…
I put this whole mess on Lue and LeBron, but mainly on LeBron. I would be the first one to say I don’t think Lue is a good coach. But the problem lies with LeBron not wanting to be coached. He still thinks he’s the player in the league – which he’s not – and as you guys mentioned, he’s holding Dan hostage due to the value he brings the franchise. When LeBron went to Miami he had Spoelstra and Riley to watch over him, and keep him in check. But he also had an equal teammate in Wade. Now… Read more »
totally agree on Lue’s role as ‘coach’. I wrote this on another thread, but believe Lue just macro manages from a far and occasionally will step in to keep things in check. While this last game was a loss, it was encouraging to see team compete and show they can beat the Warriors. The abrupt stopping of driving to basket and doing mid range jumpers was bizarre even for a veteran team. Wade not driving against David West is criminal and should deserve benching. If the Cavs play like this against EC teams they will win more often than not.… Read more »
Uh oh.
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22117829/multiple-cleveland-cavaliers-players-acknowledge-growing-discontent-concern-current-state-team
I never take seriously articles containing ‘anonymous’ sourcing or communication. Its possible Cavs players vented about some BS after a game, but won’t take the bait. Its clear team needs to move some guys (preferably JR and TT), but they also need a coach to fix rotations and play the best players.
I like Dave and he’s probably the closest reporter to the team, a reliable one majority of the time. But I don’t think there’s something we can pick up there that’s haven’t been said yet.
Except it was communicated to three different reporters. (Cleveland.com, the athletic, and espn). That’s tough to deny.
I find it most interesting that the players are questioning Lue’s rotations too.
Not surprised. And they should be concerned. I’ve been concerned about the talent on this roster since the #SummerofCorby. I still think they can get out of the East. But don’t think they can win one game against the Dubs in the finals. Back up the brinks truck Corby, the #SummerofCorbyVolume2 is coming.
I think they can win a game, but just as likely to get swept…
When you lose 8 of 10, what do you expect? I would hire a disciplinarian coach who will hold LeBron accountable.
Whom he will instantly tune out… LBJ is in control. He will be until he chooses to leave or retire on his own terms. DG has zero leverage, other than there’s nobody legitimately out there to trade the Nets pick to at the moment. The sooner we all accept this fact, the better…
was just thinking as I clicked on this website, ‘there needs to be a pod’ and low and behold there is…off to listening to Nate and EG!!!!
EG: Your next January break should be Down Under. Weather much better. Beers on me. You can even borrow my Leaguepass credentials.
That’s a great idea Simmo! I’ve got some relatives in Sydney and Melbourne I haven’t seen in ages…
I missed the game & just got through the replay, listening to your always entertaining Pod now. Thanks guys. I was fairly trepidatious logging on to watch, kept clear of spoilers, expected the worst. This game was waaaaay better than anticipated. I liked the signs of improvement from almost all Cavs players. Team play though – GSW way better, had so many uncontested waltzes to the basket while Cavs had to fight for everything, even in the first half. So many areas Cavs can, and I think will, continue to improve on. I think Cavs will still make it out… Read more »
If he is trying to avoid TOs, he isn’t doing a very good job of it.
I think the better and the most realistic scenario is going for a trade that would add better and more suited players, than replacing cLue. It would leave a bigger mess if cLue is fired in the middle of the season. No coach replacement would make Love, TT and Frye lock the paint. No coach would accelerate IT’s rehab and would get JR out of the quicksand… get my riff? To cLue’s defense he still coached us to a title. Motivated everyone to play well better at the right time. Koby the ball is in your hands. Get us the… Read more »