From Distance: Breaststroke, Shooting, and Jazz
2018-01-18Four point play….
1. Back in my swimming days, I was a breaststroker. Most people who excel in the stroke do it relatively naturally. I don’t remember being taught how to do a breastsroke kick. I just did it correctly without any hint of a scissor kick (when one foot has a natural tendency to stay in pigeon-toed making it an illegal kick. It’s the bane of a coach’s existence when she is working with young swimmers). My pull never drifted too far to my hips. It seems to be a family thing for most swimmers. Both of my sisters swam for collegiate Division I teams as breastsrokers and my dad has used the stroke for hours on end in open water.
The funny thing is that breastsrokers are often terrible less successful in other events. The body type best suited for other competitive stokes isn’t quite the same as it is for breastsroke. Most swimmers are very long torso-ed, have huge shoulders, long arms, hands and feet, and legs that are short and strong, or almost non-existent. I’m only half joking. I mean look at this dude.
The reason is that the actual drive force of freestyle (front-crawl), backstroke and butterfly are on average 75% pull vs 25% kick. Basically, the drive percentage between arms and legs heavily favors the arms. More over, because kicking is less efficient, it is a more tiring activity. Long distance swimmers usually let their legs dangle behind them until the very end of the race when they “kick it in“.
Breaststroke is a 50/50 endeavor. The kick drive is just as important as the arm pull. One could say that the kick isn’t much stronger than the kick for the other strokes, it’s just that the rules of a breaststroke pull preclude it from being as efficient. Regardless, the benefit of having a huge torso and long arms is somewhat less for a breaststroker than it is for the other disciplines.
On Olympic teams, one often sees a bunch of 6’5″ guys and a couple 6 foot dudes. Their waists are at the same height. You can almost be sure that the 6’0” folks are breaststrokers.
That shorter athlete usually has an incredibly strong chest to squeeze the more compacted pull, slightly longer legs in comparison to his body, and great timing. Yes, timing is more paramount to breaststroke than to other strokes. The pull/kick coordination is more difficult to exact. Swimmers constantly question how long their glides should be. It’s just more technical, thus requiring the natural talent as a base from which to start.
But like in all sports, there are those freaks who are amazing at everything. In swimming, there is a legit event specifically for these all-around swimmers. The Individual Medley or IM is an event for those swimmers who can do it all.
It can be incredibly fun to watch. The order is Butterfly, Backstroke, Breaststroke, and Freestyle. Technically, you can do whatever you want in Freestyle, as it is accurately named. It is just that front crawl is the fastest stroke, even for those who excel relative to their peers in other events.
Flyers will start with a huge lead only to lose it when they turn for backstroke. Almost every race changes drastically when the competitors switch to breaststroke. Most IMs are won and lost on the ability to do the rarest and most specialized stroke.
2. If being a complete NBA player in today’s position-less basketball is analogous to swimming the IM, shooting is basketball’s breaststroke. You have people all over the world who can shoot the lights out in a driveway, but couldn’t get their shot off in a real game. An IMer needs to do it all, AND shoot the breaststroke leg out of the gym.
The NBA doesn’t function like a normal relay anymore. The idea of specialized players is still true to a degree, but a guy can’t only live in his comfort zone role and be effective. A NBA player must be good at everything and great at two things now. It is a team of Individual Medleys.
That is the reason I am begging the Cavs to trade Isaiah Thomas and Tristan Thompson. Many took my column last week regarding my “don’t care” as an indication that I don’t think anything needs to be done for this team to compete for a championship. That’s not what I meant.
I simply don’t think anything about this particular losing stretch is all that relevant to the Cavs’ ultimate goals. It was very clear to me from the moment that the Cavs traded Irving that the team would not be able to beat the Warriors with Isaiah Thomas getting minutes. This recent stretch with IT and Thompson playing their way into shape has done nothing to change my longterm outlook.
3. The team cannot win with Isaiah Thomas. He is simply too limited of a player. Sure, he will continue to get a bit better on the offensive end as he finds his rhythm and stamina, but IT at his absolute best still completely and irrevocably destroys any defensive possession. His effort has been regular season Kyrie Irving-esque so far, but that’s not really the problem.
The problem is that even if IT is in the perfect position, he can’t alter a shot. I can shoot over his closeout on the weak-side. There is no defensive gameplan that can prevent middle penetration on a Pick and Roll without allowing a ball swing and weak-side shot attempt. A coach just hopes that the defensive player can get back out of the paint in time to make a decent shot contest. Thomas physically cannot do that with this size. Game over against the Warriors offense.
Okay, maybe the Cavs can just score with the Warriors? Not with Tristan Thompson killing all spacing. Tristan, historically anyway, has been a great offensive rebounder, a good bigman switch defender, and average to horrible at everything else. He’s not a good defensive rebounder. He can’t handle the rock enough to make teams pay for straying too far off his shot. Tristan doesn’t see open off ball cuts to the rim like Dwyane Wade does. His roll timing is more practiced than instinctive, and his rim protection has consistently been near the bottom of the league.
I have enjoyed Tristan’s mentality as a player. The idea of being a star role player was a nice thought in a previous version of the NBA. Unfortunately, that league is done. In this NBA world, role players need to be great at two things and good enough at everything else. Maybe Tristan is a great Butterflier, but his breaststroke kick is straight up illegal. Without any shooting whatsoever, it’s game over.
Okay, so what is a solution? I have already voiced my displeasure for anything involving Kent Bazemore. Lipstick on a pig isn’t getting this team anywhere. I’m hoping part of the reason Tyronn Lue has insisted on playing Tristan and IT is for those guys to show the league that they are returning to health, and thus tradable assets.
I doubt that that is really what Lue is doing. While I mostly agree with Evil Genius’s podcast take on the limitations any coach has when attempting to lead a LeBron James squad, I find minute distribution to be the one thing that any LeBron coach must control. Sure, LeBron will play as much or as little as he wants to, but the rest of the lineup has to up to the coach. James doesn’t have enough time during games to really dictate that distribution.
Lue has shown time and time again that he values a player’s individual skill-set more than his team play. It is quite likely Iman Shumpert could beat Cedi Osman in one-on-one, but who cares? If Lue is playing Tristan and IT into shape, fine, but let’s not ignore what has been a consistent issue throughout his tenure.
4. Back to trade possibilities. There have been rumors floating around there about Derrick Favors. Favors is on the last year of his deal, would provide some legit rim-protection and has a passable mid-range pick and pop/roll game. The deal included in the linked article ships J.R. Smith and the Brooklyn pick out for Favors and Rodney Hood. I don’t think so.
I think I would give up the Brooklyn pick for this one.
On the face of it, Favors, Joe Ingles, and Rodney Hood are hardly worth the Nets pick. Dig a little deeper and it looks a lot better. The Cavs would free themselves from of the contracts of Thompson and Shumpert, while adding two-way players that match up well against the Warriors. Rodney Hood has been injury prone, but he is a huge shooting guard that can defend two to three positions. He’s relatively miserable there at the moment and is also in the last year of his deal.
Swapping Hood out for Joe Johnson would also work. Ya know, if you prefer 87 year-old guys who can still torture defenders in a variety of ways. Though, Johnson can’t chase around the quicker wings these days.
Joe Ingles would be the primary get. He is 30 years-old, but one of the best all around players in basketball. He played fantastic off-ball defense on J.J. Redick in last year’s playoffs showing his ability to chase shooters like Klay Thompson. Joe always makes the extra skip pass, and re-spaces to the corner three expertly. He is a complete player.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5VFgIgTrZE
Those three would compliment LeBron’s game beautifully. It’s not always about how good a player is in a vacuum. For any James team, it more about how good a player compliments and maximizes the King’s immense talents. Is this trade a recipe for long term success? Maybe not, but the Cavs would have a much better shot at taking down the Warriors this season. I say go all in.
Lue says Rose will come off the bench tonight and play, on a minutes restriction. All the Rose stans will be enraptured.
Does that mean Wade will be rested ? That is what Lue said before that Rose will only play when Wade will be rested.
Think he said both would play tonight…
I don’t know why you don’t like Bazemore, Ben. The dude is on a terrible team with one of the worst high usage players in the league, at least by RPM (Schroder) and he’s currently 9th in the NBA for shooting guards with a very respectable. 1.68 RPM (Between Jaelyn Brown and Korver). He’s finishing 62% at the rim, and 38% from three and has rangeto 16 feet. Ive alwayse thought him to be a solid cutter, defender, etc. How is he not better than J.R. RIGHT NOW? Other than that, fantastic piece. Also, I was a backstroker, mainly because… Read more »
He’s definitely better than JR right now. Cedi Osman may be better than JR right now.
Who knows what the deal is with JR, but hoping for him to come out of it is becoming a long shot. I would totally start Cedi. He is better right now, and would get a lot better in a half season of starting.
Unfortunately for Cedi he’s coached by Lue. He won’t get any meaningful minutes unless JR is hurt.
I like Baze fine. I just don’t think he moves the needle at all unless the entirety of the roster is changed. Since that can’t really happen with him as a centerpiece, I’m not down for a deal involving him. He is definitely better than J.R., Shump, Rose and IT, but I’m not sure he would be that much better for the Cavs than the other options.
Yeah, I think that has my been my feeling too, warriorsfan. He seems to be boneheaded at times like Shump. Can’t do it, even if the numbers aren’t atrocious, (other than his contract).
And to be honest, the gravity that J.R. still provides might still make him the more effective player, even in a bad season.
Nate, I have seen Baze for couple of years with dubs and later when he plays dubs. He is error prone, plays out of control and inefficient shooter. He could be a good energy guy off bench in short spurts but that is it.
God. EVERYONE OTHER THAN LEBRON IS UNPLAYABLE AGAINST THE WARRIORS. Remember when the Warriors were secretly happy that Love and Irving were healthy!? Cus they were UNPLAYABLE against them. Actually we won a championship with them. Basketball isn’t played on paper and it’s not just about mismatches. Everyone was unplayable against Shaq. They could beat / they were beat. The Warriors can be beat – it’s just not likely at all. And I know you want the best chance but it’s not like we were so well positioned and now crap we swapped IT for Kyrie and we’re DOOMED. I… Read more »
Can we send TT to Detroit for Marjanovic? For some odd reason I’m insanely infatuated with the guy.
super underrated.
I’m still surprised he didn’t stick on SA.
Oh btw, have you seen his wife?
This team needs some Boban.
http://todayslifestyle.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/tls-the-top-20-hottest-nba-wives-and-girlfriends-of-2015-milica-krstic-boban-marjanovich-01.jpg
I feel ya! I totally dig his game.
Per Brett Brown, they have Fultz working on free throws and pull up jumpers, not threes yet. I’m beginning to believe that Danny Ainge is in service to Satan.
amen joeyb preach it man !!!!
that trade Ben proposed leaves us with no pg and forces Lebron to run offense which he doenst want to do that much anymore. I think just getting Favors and Hood will be good enough if we can rid of TT and Shump. I would like to move JR but doubt that is even possible. I would start Hood and have JR come off bench. IT is least of Cavs problems right now and trading him is ridiculous. He is hiding on Iggy cause Iggy doesn’t do anything and he can venture out to steal or grab a rebound. Teams… Read more »
Interesting idea on the Ingles trade. Really doubt Dan could be sold on that, so probably zero chance of it happening. Hated the Irving trade when it happened, still hate it. I would not have dealt with the Celtics unless it was a fleecing, i.e. Brown/ Tatum and Nets pick +. I would have taken less with some other team. I’m guessing Dan wanted that Nets pick over every other consideration. Credit to Thomas for becoming an NBA player at his size. There are 10,000 guys that size with talent who can’t sniff the league. But he is pretty much… Read more »
who ever said you shouldn’t trade with your rival….
I couldn’t be more wrong in that I thought Jae Crowder can make Cavs better team on defensive end. I was right about one thing though, I have said celtics will still be top defensive team even if they have lost 10 players and added Kyrie, a -ve defender.
Sounds like LeBron will be the leading vote getter for the AS game. So he gets to pick the first player. I wonder if he’ll pick Durant?
James Jones.
Durant is with Klutch ??
Great article as always. It’s interesting to try to figure out ways we could get better to overcome the Warriors, but we have to face facts. The moment Irving was traded it was over. We traded the most talented scorer in the league. No return was going to replace what he did. As much as I think he is a d-bag, he is the assassin Kobe wished he was. The kid is unstoppable when you need a bucket. Couple that with slightly below average defense when he is engaged, and it’s enough to compete. Thomas was never going to be… Read more »
Once Durant ruined the league with the combination of one time cap spike and total d-baggery of an MVP joining that loaded team, there was no we we were going to compete unless we kept Irving or improved. Under no scenario did we improve. IT was never going to be playable against the Warriors. I said it when he was on the Celtics. I said it when we made the trade. And I’ll say it if we make it to the Finals. That dude will not help. There is no trade we can make that will get back enough. We’re… Read more »
This is why we now hear the rumblings that we don’t have the roster to compete. This team is full of intelligent veteran players. They know. They can see what we have, and what the Warriors are, and they know we can’t do it. It sucks. I thank God for 2016, because we were one shot away from having this curse continued ad infinitum. Unless something truly unforeseen happens, I think the best we can hope for is the opportunity to watch Lebron over these next years go for the all time scoring record, maybe develop a young team, and,… Read more »
dude Joey – tell us how you really feel.
Pretty sure Quicken Loans is a legitimate company that employs a lot of people and provides a service for many more. No need to just toss grenades around.
I know Gilbert isn’t all that bad; however, Quickens was an active participant in the disastrous mortgage “policy (fraud)” that caused a global financial meltdown, a meltdown in which he made billions, people lost their homes and savings, and in which he turned around and bought a LOT of property on the cheap/forclosed that has only enhanced his wealth. His hands are plenty dirty.
What makes you think Dan is doing anything different this year than two years ago?
I don’t know JoeyB. I’m not convinced the Cavs aren’t in a better position right now to challenge the Warriors than they were last year. Got Worse at: Starting PG (Lost Irving, replaced with IT) Got Worse at: Starting SG (JR may have a fork in his back) Got Better at: Depth Got Better at: Wingspan/Size defending Wings (Crowder/Green/Wade/Osman) Got Better at: Actually have a unit that can keep pace when LeBron is on bench. Could get better at: Korver could not have an atrocious playoff series. They haven’t gotten worse on defense. They were 29th in the league in… Read more »
Sure Tom, hit me with reasoned analysis. Next thing you’ll tell me the sky isn’t falling and we’re all going to die.
Nets pick update. Wins:
13 = Kings, Magic, Hawks
15 = Mavs, Lakers, Grizz
16 = Nets, Suns
17 = Bulls
18 = Jazz, Hornets
Tonight: Magic at Cavs
Tomorrow:
Heat at Nets
Kings at Grizz
Suns at Nuggets
Knicks at Jazz
Pacers at Lakers
Russell’s return is imminent.
With as good as Dinwiddie is playing might make them worse.
Maybe the Cavs can trade Derrick Rose for Derrick Orchid? Derrick Orchid is known to come back to life, unlike Derrick Rose. (I’ll let myself out now).
wow all the it hate. he looked fine vs gsw to me (not in shape yet, but very usable)
He did in the first half but GS wasn’t even trying, if they had wanted to they could had run a crazy amount of PnR against him and scored easily.
He looked good on Iggy because Iggy wasn’t trying to score. If he had wanted to, he could had backed him onto the basket and scored over him.
If the Cavs flounder and don’t make it out of the East, and LeBron decides to leave, he should join OKC on a vet minimum…then the Warriors are toast.
The Westbrook revenge factor would add another level of joy to this haha I’d love it.
But LeBron in Houston or San Antonio would be just as good, and have a better coach in both places.
I thought Donovan did pretty well in the playoffs in 2016, when they took the Dubs to 7 games. I’m not sure about Houston. I would hate that move, because I cannot stand the Golden Turd, and I’m not really a fan of Chris Paul either. Plus D’Antoni is a schmuck with his gimmick offense. I would maybe agree with SAS, but they would need another star to go with LeBron and Leonard.
Or how about using has salary for a superstar here, and then playing for a vet minimum?
YIPPIE!!!! /s
https://twitter.com/mcten/status/954018247128551425
Someone needs to send Vivek 2010 highlights of Derrick Rose. Maybe if the Cavs change the name on the back of Shump’s jersey to Jordan, then they can foist him to the Bulls. Someone needs to shave Shump’s head. Get him drunk and have Ante Zizik break out the clippers.
Gobert can cover up a lot of IT’s limitations defensively. Of course, he can’t stop people from shooting over him, but at least they know for sure that’s what they’d be doing since you wouldn’t want to drive with Gobert around the hoop.
Problem solved. One of these is a getting a former MVP candidate and the other is getting a former MVP.
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ycos5ycl
I like to offload all of our junk but this doesn’t make us better at guarding the perimeter, unfortunately. As much as I like Lauri Markkanen, no way the Bulls are giving him up. They struck gold on what many thought was a fleecing.
The Bulls are also getting Iman “Michael Jordon” Shumpert.
JMAY VERY GOOD PT WHICH IS AGAIN WE ASK THE QUESTION —WHY DOESN’T THAT HAPPEN HERE
Ben, think there is any way to snag Rubio off the Jazz? What I’d really love is making that trade even larger. Let’s go Rubio, Ingles, Hood, Favors for JR, TT, IT, Shump, and the BKN pick…. Wouldn’t that be something. We’d get so much better defensively right off the bat and I don’t think our offense suffers for it.
I am sure cedi’s name comes up in every trade talks—–what are we willing to trade him for
I’m sure the Spurs would love to get a hold of him. He’s right up their alley and I know that Pop would turn him into the second coming of Manu Ginobili.
The question is, why doesn’t ANYONE in the coaching notices the kid’s talents?
agree with you arch—only problem is if other g.m.’s have the same view / value (that we do here at ctb ) —won’t it be difficult to unload / find someone interested —-that is one of my concerns—-and if they do have them valued THAT LOW –what are they willing to give up/ trade—-certainly not a player (s) that are going to move the needle against the dubs
I’d give the Brooklyn pick for Markkanen!
I said that the first time we played them.
kid’s going to be good.
MVP! MVP!
https://twitter.com/SportsCenter/status/953804496353812480
OMG. I can watch that all day.
That was highly enjoyable. Wish that dude was on the Cavs.
That is spectacular! Schadenblockenfreude.
Hopefully any deal the Cavs make will at least be additions by subtraction. TT, IT, Rose, and Shump can’t be off this roster soon enough. If Shump is still on this roster after the trade dealine, I’m cutting out a picture of his face and putting it on my dart board. He will get voodoo torched!
tom believe when they really started to crack down on ” defensive hand checking ” where the defender had an advantage/ could kind of “guide ” the offensive player where he wanted —-think that has made a big impact——outside shooting —I am close to 70—maybe I am biased —believe outside shooting was just as good / if not better 20/30 /40 yrs ago
hard to say. I know that I was stunned looking back at box scores from the late 80s early 90s Cavs.
Mark Price was taking 15-20 shots and like 2 of them were 3s despite the fact that he shot 40%.
Back then the point guard’s job was to set up the offense so that everyone was in a good position to run a set play from an inside/out attack.
Now the PG’s job is to create separation on the perimeter to drive and kick (or score)
just don’t want the cavs to make a trade ” just because they feel pressured by “outside ” influences ——yes trades are exciting / gives us all something to talk about and then sometimes 2-3 weeks later we are grumbling / upset of why in the hell did we make that trade —-just saying –DO YOUR HOMEWORK—-ANALYZE WHAT THIS TEAM REALLY NEEDS ( SHORT AND LONG TERM ) WHO IS EXPENDABLE —————-speaking of breaststroke—am still an “Olympian “—just ask the mrs nomad ( you can delete that if you want )
Or we are horrified as soon as it happens and are counting down the moments before the mistake can be rectified. Thomas will never win a chip as a primary player. It doesn’t need to be the Jazz, but it needs to get rid of TT, IT, Shump, and Rose.
Definitely agree, we’d be better off tomorrow if we could just cut those 4 guys and save the money.
Ben, do you think that solid role players that are limited are extinct or is it just a function of the current power structure in the NBA where everyone is measuring up to the Warriors who are basically the Dream Team minus some depth? One of the developments that struck me was watching how quickly Serge Ibaka evolved (forcibly or naturally). His 3rd year in the league he looked like the second coming of Dikembe Mutombo. Now he’s a Marvin Williams clone. Shooting seems more important than ever and unlocking guys with limited shot distance or accuracy seems based on… Read more »
But could you imagine a guy like Eric Snow in today’s NBA? Eric Snow had a solid if unspectacular career.
Rose/Rondo become irrelevant so incredibly quickly.
It’s wild
I wrote a rather lengthy reply that I lost. Ah well….. It’s a combo. It took awhile, but once the defenses truly understood how to use zone and man principles together post rule change, it was inevitable that offenses would space to 23 instead of to 18-20 like they did with Larry Nance and Horace Grant. Yes, everybody is better shooting the rock now. At least the bigmen that weren’t allowed to before when it was better to draw a double team from the block. Hakeem, Ewing, Kemp, all guys with great touch from the line and from the midrange… Read more »
I’d love that trade, being able to dump 2 bloated contracts and saving Lue from the pressure of playing IT. And to get back 2-3 (idk how to feel about Hood relative to JR/Korver/Wade) solid rotation pieces is just icing on the cake.
But would the Jazz do that deal? Take on that much money for the pick?
I’m not sure the Jazz would, but there would be reason for them to do so. Donovan Mitchell , Gobert and whatever that pick would become could form a young nucleus for Utah. Gobert is still only 25. Mitchell’s success has somewhat confused what their timeline could be. If no one had gotten injured, I think the Jazz would still have been a playoff team. Still, I think they realize how good Ingles is. Is he and a bit more contract inflexibility really not worth picking up a top ten pick in a place that NEVER scores topflight free-agents? This… Read more »
The point about their free agency problems is a good one, Ben. When no one wants to sign with your team (like pre-LeBron 2.0 era in Cleveland), the primary way you get game changers is through trade and draft. The trade market is tough because usually the only stars who are on the market are flight-risks on expiring contracts and disgruntled players who you risk not being happy in Utah as well. The latter are usually also towards the end of their deals. If this is the case, then a top-10 draft pick in one of the deepest, if not… Read more »
If their injuries keep them in the lottery, that makes sense. Having 2 chances at #1, or 2 chances at getting a star later on, would be huge in finding their third star.
Which is really the goal if you want to win big.
I feel like I’m just going to be disappointed in any move the Cavs make. The waiting is killing me though. Let’s get a deal done or move on. Likely, we’ll be waiting until closer to the deadline when teams are feeling the crunch.