The Allure of the West
2018-07-04From CtB, Happy Fourth of July. For today’s article, Excl and James Michael Kenney-Prentiss team up to bring you the following meditation on LeBron’s move west, to the city of angels.
The West – majestic, mysterious, beckoning – beckoning all would-be adventurers with promises of gold, of glory, of the indefinable, yet desirable. The allure has captured many an imagination, and has spurred some of the greatest triumphs and saddest tragedies in our collective human story. Christopher Columbus sailed West to find a shorter route to China, ushering in one of the most seismic clashes between two great peoples, all leading to the creation of our America. With the promise of the new world – of El Dorado, of the Fountain of Youth, of untold riches beyond the deep blue sea, many traveled and many perished. For every Columbus, there must have been a thousand others whose names are lost to history, and their squalid and unremarkable search for fortune led them only to obscurity – and death.
As Americans, we went West, past the Appalachians, past the Mississippi, always reaching out, toiling, sweating, working, with every last fiber of our beings, to grasp fortune, glory, adventure, and even utopia itself. Our own ancestors were beset by the whispers promising greater things, so they came to the Ohio territory and founded the Greatest State in the Union. Others kept going, for the gold rush, to escape the dust bowl, or simply to start anew. The West became a refuge for those cast away by society in the East, the 49ers, the hippies, the outlaws. Even now, the West beckons many – with its promises of Hollywood fame, of Silicon Valley riches, of simply starting again.
To venture West is to be idealistic, optimistic, even naive in the face of the men and women who went and failed. Many died. Many starved. Many found it difficult to simply scrape by. The gold they rushed towards turned to pyrite in their hands. Hollywood fame becomes just a dream, that after countless auditions, just still finding oneself waiting tables, still waiting for the big break that will never come. Much in the West is masked with a veil of authenticity, covering the visage of Dorian Grey himself.
And yet, many still go. LeBron has gone. He may go with the that same promise and allure that has hooked many, some into great riches, most into nothingness beneath the great city of Oz. They go, Gatsby-like; they see the orgastic future that year by year recedes before us. It eluded us then, but that’s no matter — tomorrow we will run faster, stretch out our arms farther . . . and one fine morning ——
Part I: Chasing the Ghost
JMKP: LeBron James is chasing the ghost of Michael Jordan. He seemingly wants to compete for titles, yet trails Jordan in NBA Championships 3-6. LeBron trails Jordan in MVP titles 5-6, and total points 31,038-32-292. Winning titles led LeBron to go to Miami. LeBron returned to Cleveland when the Cavs had a roster that could compete (Irving, and eventually Love).
The question now is: will the Lakers allow LeBron to compete for titles every year?
My guess is no. The West is loaded, with the Spurs, Warriors, and Rockets (and an emerging Nuggets team) well poised to take the Western Conference title every year for the next several years.
Also, the Lakers are not built for a Finals run right now. Their team is young, inexperienced. We saw with Philadelphia last year that talent alone isn’t enough to make it to the Finals – and Philadelphia had much better young talent on their roster. Plus, even if Kawhi joined the Lake Show, we see time and time again that a SuperTeam doesn’t automatically mean success. Look at OKC or the Nets from a few years ago – big named stars don’t win you games if your stars are injured (Boggie) or don’t mesh on the court (Melo). LeBron, having joined the Lakers, finds himself away from the conference that could have almost guaranteed a Finals appearance, to the brutal West.
The West, with its brutality, on a Lakers team far behind where they will be to compete – it looks as though LeBron’s chances of ever catching the ghost of Michael Jordan will be yet another failed dream thrown astray on the unforgiving wilderness of the West.
Excl: The expectation that LeBron James will simply make it to the Finals every year seems unrealistic. Playing in LA means more regular season games against the likes of Golden State, Houston, San Antonio, Utah, New Orleans, etc — and that’s even before we get to the playoffs. Then, when the playoffs roll around, LeBron is looking at three solid rounds of those same tough teams, just to get to the Finals. If he thought he was getting grief before about losing in several consecutive Finals, what will he hear now if he can’t even get out of the first or second round?
Gone too are the days of coasting through the regular season, with LeBron saving his body for the playoffs, where he could then red-line his body, put everything on the line, and come out looking like a legend. Previously in the East, even in his Miami days, he could put up about 50% effort through the winter, let his teams work through issues and drama, and still wind up with a four-seed or better. Trying to run on cruise control in the West could see him missing the Playoffs altogether with the number of teams there that are capable of reaching the post-season.
I said before July 1st thatmoving to the Lakers would be a horrible decision from a personnel standpoint, even if James managed to forge a super-team. To get two superstars on the roster, they would of had to release/renounce just about everybody on the team, outside a small handful of their young guys, to fit both under the cap. Then if they wanted a third superstar, like Kawhi, the Lakers were looking at trading pretty much whoever was left over to make the deal worthwhile for the other team. At that point, they would be left with a mid-level exception and vet minimums to try and fill out their team.
Paul George spurned Los Angeles, and it may of actually helped a bit, as they no longer needed to renounce everyone. But even now, they are looking at a team that’s not a whole lot better than what the Cavs offered him. The Lakers may have more young pieces that could be attractive in a trade, but they also still play in the West and they have a bunch of head cases who can’t shoot. If Magic wants to go the free agent route again next year, they are back to the reality of needing to release their entire roster to make room.
Even when LeBron took his talents to South Beach and formed his first super-team, they struggled to find chemistry in their first year and ultimately lost to Dallas, a team that was a far cry from the war-machine Golden State fields today. That Miami team also played in a weaker Eastern Conference and featured a LeBron James in his mid-twenties instead of his mid-thirties. If he went to LA thinking he could build a super-team that could topple Golden State and continue to build his legacy, he really didn’t think that one through.
Part II: Expectations, Legacy, and Los Angeles
JMKP: I’ve already spoken about how LeBron presence on the Cavaliers gave him a greater glory than he could achieve with any other team, and how winning for Cleveland will echo across generations. In that light, going to Los Angeles might have the worst effect on LeBron’s long term legacy.
The Los Angeles Lakers already have a rich, championship riddled history, filled with their heroes of past glory. Kareem, Shaq, Kobe, Magic, Wilt-the-Stilt, the Logo, and Lonzo Ball (kidding!).
One extreme of the LeBron-as-Laker future would be LeBron winning four straight Finals. Granted, they also have a pretty significant Championship-draught (since 2010), so winning in 2019 will be cathartic for a city with little else to cheer for (#sarcasm). It will be good for LeBron, he will have topped Jordan’s record, and he will be remembered as one of the all-time greats. And yet, in thirty years, Laker fans won’t remember “LeBron” as the pinnacle of Laker history. Rather, the name “LeBron” will be tossed into the same historic bin as the rest of the celebrated Laker cast. It might be good to win in that historic tradition, but if he does, LeBron’s name will be one of many instead of the singular hero for an entire people.
The other extreme: LeBron doesn’t win four straight Final. Let’s say the West is too tough and LeBron doesn’t even make it to the Finals once. It was tough for LeBron this year to get past Indiana and Boston in the East. With Kevin Love and and some guys whose gravity at least spreads the floor. How far do you think LeBron will get with Rajon Rondo and Lance Stephenson? How quickly will Laker fans turn on him? How quickly will the Kobe-fans say “well, if Kobe was here instead of LeBron…” LeBron might fall into the same trap that lured many to the West before it crushed their souls once they reached a discarnate and disquieting “promised land”.
Excl: For the most part, LeBron is expected to reach the NBA Finals no matter where he plays. Here in Cleveland, we all want another Championship banner in the rafters. But generally, I think fans are appreciative of the one we did get. We understand that LeBron and a team of misfit toys can’t get past an offensive juggernaut that signed a top-three player in the league (and now a 5th All-Star).
In Cleveland, there may be disappointment, but there is at least acceptance of our fate and appreciation for what we have achieved. With the Lakers, that is all out the window. Anything less than multiple championships will be considered a failure. This is a team that has won 16 Championships, with many of them coming either back to back or within a few years of each other. The Lakers and their fans want a dynasty, not a one-year, plucky success story.
In Cleveland, LeBron is a prodigal son whose mistakes are forgiven. In LA, he’s a blood mercenary that has to play in the shadows of those 16 championship banners. And the weight of those shadows will increase with each playoff loss.
Lakers fans will never truly embrace him. Let’s face it, LeBron has no ties to Los Angeles, no real roots in California, and frankly, has been considered public enemy #1 for years to fans who feel that Kobe was always the far superior player. Why would this fan base suddenly take him in and treat them as one of their own? Yes, the Lakers will suddenly be relevant again, they will win more games, and Hollywood celebrities will pull their jerseys out of boxes filled with mothballs and start learning players’ names once more, but will LeBron ever encounter the same thrills he did when he hit a game-winner in Cleveland? Would he have the same experience of a defining crowd roar as he stood on the scorer’s table or stretched his arms out to the fans, soaking in the adulation that would only be bestowed upon the favored son of a proud people?
Admit it, in LA he’s merely a soldier of fortune. They’ll cheer, but it won’t really be for him. It would be as if Steph Curry or Draymond Green decided to opt out and join the Cavs. Yeah, we would pull for them, but I don’t think they would truly ever be “one of us”. If they ever started approaching Mark Price’s shooting records or Zydrunas Ilgauskas’ rebounding records, some of us would probably secretly hope it never happened. In the same way, the biggest “legacy moment” left for LeBron could be breaking Kareem’s all-time point total. You think Laker fans are going to be really excited for him to surpass that Laker legend?
In all likelihood, Lakers fans will turn on him. In the same way that they will never really accept him, they will also likely be quick to blame him if those extraordinary expectations are never reached. These are the same fans that, for years, would come up with every excuse imaginable to marginalize LeBron’s amazing accomplishments, all while propping up Kobe’s own value. Eventually, as the empirical evidence all but disappeared, they would simply fall back on Shaq’s favorite go-to excuse: “Ringz!” Now that the expectation is nothing less than “more Ringz”, he will either have to meet that lofty goal, or become the prime reason why they weren’t able to achieve it.
James is now the built-in, scapegoat excuse for every Laker fan out there. If they don’t win, it’s because LeBron wasn’t clutch, LeBron couldn’t carry the team the same way Kobe could, or LeBron just didn’t have that ice-water in his veins that other Laker legends had. Laker fans have used these same excuses for years, and they will fall back on them again if they need to explain why they couldn’t win a Championship with a super-team. Why? Because LeBron isn’t really one of “them”.
LeBron is already a legend in the minds of most people who follow basketball. He could announce his retirement tomorrow, and most people would probably still pencil him as one of the two best players to ever play. If he were to sign with the Cavs or even a number of other teams, where a championship wasn’t completely expected, he could quietly rack up career records, bow-out expectantly somewhere in the playoffs, and still be considered among the greats. It would look similar to Jordan’s final years in Washington, where people just appreciated his amazing skills but never docked him greatness points for exiting the post-season early. Playing for the Lakers on a super-team means he has to deliver or his legacy takes a hit. Dragging a group of average Joes and a Roomba to the NBA Finals is worthy of an SNL sketch and only adds to his mystique. Losing in the second round with a super-team that you colluded to build is not the stuff of legend. Locally too, LeBron has all but set himself up as the greatest athlete in Cleveland history. After another five years and few broken NBA records, Cleveland could all but guarantee him a Rocky-esque statue on the top of the Terminal Tower. A few years in LA might warrant him a small plaque on the wall at Staples Center denoting, “Yeah, LeBron once played here.”
Part III: The Pay Cut
JMKP: LeBron could have made roughly $50M more dollars with Cleveland than with the Lakers. He’s already a transcendent star with multiple homes, so I’m not really sure how moving to LA would increase his potential lifetime earnings. The basketball season is brutal with its constant traveling and occasional team practices (coach-dependent), so he still wouldn’t be able to film his Space Jam Cinematic Universe regardless of where he lived.
For this point, I really sympathize with LeBron. I have passed up many opportunities that offered a much higher salary, yet didn’t align with what I ultimately wanted out of life. There are more important things in life than money, and if LeBron found that in LA, then more power to him.
Excl: This really represents the first 50 million or so reasons LeBron picking LA over Cleveland didn’t make a lot financial sense. Okay, sure, Nike is his true employer with a billion dollar lifetime deal, but $50M+ is still $50M+. Passing up a deal with Cleveland meant passing on his only chance at signing a super-max 5-year ~$205 million dollar dear. Signing anywhere else means he could only max out at ~$152 million across only 4 years. As somebody who will be pushing 38 when the fourth year expires, he may of wanted to consider having that 5th year of guaranteed money at a maximum salary. Outside of basketball salary though, he’s still the most recognized man in the sport. I don’t see how moving to LA suddenly makes him any more visible or marketable than he was before.
State taxes also seem to be a huge selling point whenever writers talk about players wanting to go play in places such as Texas or Florida. “They have no income tax so that 50 million dollar deal is actually 50 million!” But why is this never mentioned when talking about the opposite end of the scale? California has some of the highest taxes in the nation, while Ohio is still fairly moderate by comparison. Income taxes for big earners in the Golden State approach 13.3% while sales tax amounts to another 7.35%. In Ohio, well-paid basketball players would be looking at a 5% income tax and a 5.75% sales tax. LeBron would have saved far more in yearly taxes choosing Ohio over California than he would have choosing an income tax-free state like Texas over Ohio.
Part IV: The LA Experience
JMKP: Full disclosure, I have never lived in Los Angeles or its surrounding suburbs. I do, however, have many friends, family, and professional relationships with people who have lived in the City of Angels, so I might not be completely off-base here. Up to y’all to decide.
Quite frankly, from everything I hear, LA really seems like a terrible place to live. On top of being the most polluted city in the United States, and having the worst traffic in the United States, the culture in Los Angeles always appears shallow, superficial, vapid. Fake body parts. Fake personalities. Constant name dropping. A deafening echo chamber of unoriginal, chasing-the-trend opinions. An entire city in a rat race of rat races, where the very many seekers of fame, wealth, and notoriety swarm at the pittance from the very few. I lived in New York City for three years, and the comparisons between the two cities – two rat races on two different coasts, each going for something different, soured any curiosity I would have in living in such a place.
In Ohio, people are nice. We don’t generally care how much money someone makes, or how famous someone is. All we care about is if that person is a good person. We value family, long-term meaningful friendships, and a life well lived. We aren’t as slow or as closed off as some of the rural south, nor are we trapped in a break-neck speed, cutthroat game where our success means always means another’s failure. Our currency is sarcasm, and we generally stand as moderates to the more extreme wings in the country. And Los Angeles seems the opposite of all of that, in every possible way.
Los Angeles is also the place where someone came up with this scene for a movie . . .
And LeBron is now in Los Angeles. Will he miss the Midwest? I would think so.
LeBron is now surrounded by the distractions of the rich and famous. Everyone I know who has ever met LeBron always tell me that he was a very humble guy, down to earth, and always gracious. He has always seemed like one of us – like an Ohioan. Yet, I can see him getting swarmed wherever he goes in LA. The hangers-on. The salespeople. Everyone seeing him of a means to their own ends, to their own big breaks.
Those in LA won’t embrace LeBron like we did in Cleveland. Laker fans might turn on him. They might leave games early, since those in LA have their beaches, the nice weather, the celebrities to go see. Remember how much we made fun of Miami fans when they left games early? In Cleveland, LeBron was King. In Los Angeles, LeBron is just one person of many to cheer for and appreciate. Until he won’t be. And Los Angeles will move on to whomever is the next flavor of the week, flitting from trend to trend, always being sure to exude their superiority to the morons in flyover country.
This might hurt LeBron’s charity work as well. As an Ohioan, he is still one of us. He understand what it’s like to be a kid growing up in NEO. Just by living in Ohio, the mere exposure to other Ohioans has a general moderating effect on peoples’ opinions.
Now, welcome to the LA echo chamber. I’ve spoken about culture before, but I think we can all agree that Los Angeles elite culture exists, and exists far outside the bounds of where most Americans find themselves. Importantly, this isn’t a political point, disparaging one political party over another. Rather, this is an extreme echo chamber point. Whenever you are in a place like LA, there exists a powerful social pressure towards a homogeneity of opinion, purity of thought, and the demonizing and intolerance of deviance. In addition, the trend towards purity of thought leads to a constant one-upmanship of purity. We see this on both the far left and far right. I’m not only eco friendly, but I compost! And I not only compost, but I compost all of my own waste! No running water for this eco-bro!
Or, on the right, we sometimes see smaller towns falling victim to the extremity of a single religious dogma – Not only are we Christians, but we take everything in the Bible word-for-word literally! As literally as we can make it! This one-upmanship, mixed with an ideological echo-chamber, leads certain parts and cultures of this country to extremities of thought. College campuses have their victimhood culture, where they shut down speech, violently threaten speakers, and preach the harmful doctrine of microagressions and safe spaces. On the far left, we see people thinking that vaccines cause autism (they don’t), that GMOs are dangerous (they aren’t), and that America is the worst country ever (it isn’t). On the far right, we see people thinking that the Earth is less than 6,000 years old (it isn’t), that evolution through natural selection is a hoax (it isn’t), and that anthropogenic climate change is a lie (it isn’t).
LeBron now joins the LA echo chamber. Even if he keeps his sanity in the midst of the emotional torrent of purity tests and vapid opinion homogeneity, the LA-branded LeBron will be easier to dismiss, ignore, and cast aside because he’s just another Hollywood elite. And if he loses himself and drowns in the depths of the LA borg-mind, clutching his healing crystals next to Gwyneth Paltrow, then he will be relegated to the long list of celebrities-turned-running-jokes.
One last note about raising a family. I’m raising a family now, and I was lucky enough to be raised in Northeast Ohio. In my younger years, I lived across the United States, and even spent time living in Japan, China, and Austria. But now, confronted with the question of where to raise a family, I can unequivocally say the following: my family needs to be in Ohio; Ohio is the only place I find suitable enough, culturally, to raise my family. Too many stories are abound with the children of celebrities who lose their minds in the shadows of wealth, fame, and excess. Too many people grow up in the culture of a rat race, of fake people, of a culture that priorities material wealth over the contents of one’s character. I do hope that LeBron has a solid family culture. Establishing a family culture is hugely important. Living in a place that promotes that culture is even more so.
Excl: Full disclosure, While I don’t live in what is typically considered a suburb of LA, I am still in an area that can be considered a part of the Greater LA Area. I’m surrounded by LA fans, LA sports talk radio, and terrible, traffic-causing LA drivers. Most of what James says is true. My wife and I unaffectionately call the place Hell-A, and rue the days we have to head up that way and drive through the parking lots they call the LA Freeway system.
Looking away from basketball itself, it’s already been established that Nike is LeBron’s true employer, as they can pay him a lot more than the CBA will allow a professional team to compensate him. The big problem for Nike with LeBron in LA, is that unless Lonzo Ball is traded out (and frankly, who would want that Lonzo/Lavar package deal?), LeBron is going to inadvertently boost the publicity of the Big Baller Brand. A super-team in LA means the national media attention will be focused hotter than it’s ever been on that Laker team. You just know Lavar Ball is going to fly straight into that spotlight faster than a fat Texas mosquito into a purple bug zapper. Unless LeBron just straight freezes-out Lonzo or his knee doesn’t heal, the young-point guard’s stats will likely see quite an improvement in his sophomore year. You don’t think Lavar will parley that into more promotional advertising for his fledgling brand? Does Nike really want to give a leg up to a new brand looking for whatever foot-in-the door they can get to steal market share? Could this start a major war-of-words between LeBron and Lavar (and other NBA players) who treat shoe deals like street-gang turf battles? Is this really the type of distraction LeBron needs when trying to cement the last years of his legacy?
LA will be a distraction. Back in 2015, a trade was made to acquire one Iman Shumpert. As penance for making the deal, the Cavs were asked to take on the salary of JR Smith, who had not lived up to his hefty contract in New York. But then a funny thing happened. JR suddenly became focused and a legitimate starter for the Cavs, who would eventually win a Championship with JR as a major contributor. What happened? JR himself said that being out of the New York limelight allowed him to focus more on basketball. The distractions and temptations were gone, and thus he was able to just play basketball again. Los Angeles offers the same distractions as New York. Yes, LeBron is much less likely to be bemused by shiny objects, but Los Angeles is going to provide a number of temptations for him that could pull him away from concentrating on basketball. Is he going to want to make more movies? Is he going to want to hang out with more celebrities? Will any of this pull him away from focusing solely on winning championships? Does he even care at this point?
And yet, despite all of this, LeBron ended up going West
LeBron made his decision. He’s a grown man with a family and responsibilities. He has a burgeoning movie career and might have started thinking about a life post-basketball.
LeBron won a championship for us in 2016. Even in this last year, he played 82 games, killed himself in the Finals, and put up with Jordan Clarkson, Rodney Hood, thrown soup, IT, D-Rose being on the team, D-Rose being absent from the team, and Ty Lue.
LeBron has gone West.
West – LeBron has been lured by the promises of the frontier, a Magic-al place with the hint of future NBA glory under the shadows of past NBA giants. LeBron the basketball player. LeBron the movie star. LeBron the activist.
LeBron, Gatsby-like, finds himself in a place far beyond the Ohio, with its interminable inquisitions which spares only the children and the very old, filled with a distorted quality masquerading as genuine human experience, fleeting, evanescent — yet he chases! He chases the green light, the orgastic future . . .
—— so he beats on, boat against the current. Borne back ceaselessly into the West.
Here are the pods for the Cavs roundtable:
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/bull-fox/id633446284?mt=2#episodeGuid=9a4ae3b3-2384-4a96-8aef-a914015d6abb
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/bull-fox/id633446284?mt=2#episodeGuid=fbc3f7ff-2422-41db-879d-a914015daa44
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/bull-fox/id633446284?mt=2#episodeGuid=a59cbc30-d199-4673-8a49-a914015dd1dc
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y8nn4qo7
We also get Lakers 2019 First, San Antonio gets Lakers 2020 first.
I think all parties would do this. Am I crazy?
I don’t think so…. SAS wouldn’t do it. Also, violates Stepian rule for picks IIRC. Also, Spurs would want to dump Gasol contract and maybe Mills contract to be even remotely interested.
I’m not sure why the Spurs do this? Plus LeBron isn’t putting any pressure on the Lakers and I think they’re happy to sign Leonard next offseason, without giving up any assets. The Cavs do this, but no way the Lakers or Spurs do this. Remember the Spurs also have Aldridge.
The reason the Spurs would do this is because Love is good, will excel with Pop, and will resign with them. They don’t want to blow it up and tank, they want to compete. It’s better than what they’ll get for Leonard in a straight up trade.
He’s on the wrong side of 30, they already LMA, and didn’t unload any bad contracts. Kuzma, Hart more appealing… they would excel in Spurs’ system and young and cheap.
Man, Kings guards suck…. they can’t pass worth a damn. Mason only one remotely competent.
Nice on-ball defense by Bagley on the perimeter forced bad shot. Nice post pass by Bagley, found big in the lane who drew the foul.
Bagley with a nice recovery and block… looked like goaltending though.
Justin Jackson with a nice offensive rebound and putback!
Bam Adebayo for Miami has looked OK.. He’s active.
Giles needs to work on hands…. TO on the post entry pass. Probably tired. Good run though.
Jackson nice drive!
Fantastic pass Giles! High low action with GIles at the elbow.
Giles with a good looking play in the post… moves ball out when double comes.
Jackson 3! one point game.
Harry Giles rejection!
Nice defense Giles!
Giles nice offensive rebound and tip in!
Rashaun Vaughn contested 3 off the dribble !
Rashaun Vaughn draft pick for Bucks with a nice shot off the dribble.
Jackson nice finish! Mason with a good pass.
Bagley with uneven play. The weakness with his right hand showing up again….. Heat hedging hard on the left hand. Defensive activity good though.
Jackson with a 3, Mason with the assist.
Nice defense GIles, cuts off driving and gets a partial block.
Nice help defense Bagley… cuts off driving lane.
Nice contest Bagley.
Lack of game awareness from Bagley…. had post position, needed to make a move and shoot.
Giles nice contest and nice pass on the break.
Quick hands from Giles on the PnR.
I hope what they are saying about Ty Lue is true on 92.3. That he isn’t cLueless, just impossible to coach a LeBron team now. I will be the first to apologize and buy a Lue jersey if he proves to be a good coach this year.
If he develops talent, and we see team ball and hustle…
If it is true, boy I feel for Walton. Though maybe since he seems to have conceded to the warriors, he will be more chill.
Yeah the media here loves Lue. I’m no Lue hater, and I’m interested to see how he can coach a rebuilding team.
According to Lloyd,
Bron and Love’s relationship, is and has been for quite awhile, very strained.
It’s okay, he’ll love Lance and Rondo…
It was never great. Their first two years was good, not great. Lebron is demanding af, and Love is just too laid back, I think, for Lebron.
Love wasn’t even like 25% of what Lebron thought he would be for the Cavs when he recruited him over in 2014.
Which frankly to me is yet another pretty damning indictment of LeBron the GM. I remember texting with my dad and buddies very upset about the Wiggins deal when it happened. I had watched a fair amount of Minne. Love over the years and was very convinced he wasn’t quite the player his stats and hype suggested he was. I just didn’t believe in his athleticism. Now, the trade was ok in hindsight, but only because Wiggins has drastically underperformed as well. KLove pretty much planned out like I thought he would (though I thought he’d be a little more… Read more »
2nd game in a row, where GSW playing exceptionally well without any top tier talent.
Wagner cleaning boards at least.
Wagner missed open jumper…. fatigue looks like a factor. 3 games 4 days.
Terrible defense by Wagner… left his feet, got dusted.
Lazy post up by Wagner…. leads to TO and transition basket.
Fadeaway midrange jumper from Wagner!!! A little sloppy on the footwork in the post though.
Pick and pop 3 Wagner!!!
Wagner has no handles…. just got ball stolen, but made a great hustle defensive play to prevent a basket. And just drew a charge on the next defensive possession!
Just tuned into Summer League, saw a nice defensive play at the rim by Wagner… hustled to recover from a bad play and made a block that triggered a fast break basket.
MCMENAMIN mentioned bonzie will not play in summer league/ due to his injuries in college / rehabbing / hoping they keep him / sign him for G league
Question for the blog: If Lebron does not come back and Cavs are mediocre the last 4 years (low playoff seed/lose in 1st round), does the Uncle Drew movie get made?
My answer is probably, mainly because I think the “popularity” was driven more from the concept rather than Kyrie’s celebrity, and the movie is depending more on the celebrity of other basketball stars (Shaq).
The original Uncle Drew video was made back in 2012, and I think another few were made before Lebron even came back into town.
Right, but my question is does the movie get made, or is it just another sport commercial phenomenon that peters out, like Little Penny and Lebrons early commercials.
The movie got made because the commercials were popular, Kyrie blew up and the NBA is wildly popular right now. So it’s a matter of what you think Kyrie does without Lebron on the team. Probably doesn’t go to the finals, but neither do Westbrook, Harden or anybody else not on the Warriors or Lebron’s team, so… I tend to think it gets made because Kyrie would be fairly recognizable anyway, its a fun concept and the NBA’s popularity would have risen the same regardless of where Lebron was the last 4 years.
3 hours of Cavs talk with Vardon, McMenamin, and Lloyd on 92.3 right now. Some really good insight. Sounds like Kyrie never wanted LeBron to come back to Cavs in 2014. There relationship was worse then we may have thought.
Again, I will say this with maybe some mire fertile ground, on the court, Bron is the second greatest player I have ever seen in his prime (MJ).
Off the court, not so much. As a leader/communicator, not so much. As a guy you build around, not so much.
I would gladly take Russell, MJ, Kareem, Wilt, Magic, Duncan, Bird, and Mikan on my team before Bron. You could build around those guys. It is why I can never go higher than 5th for Bron on the GOAT list, and sometimes down towards 9th.
Miami version Lebron with Pat Riley as GM perhaps was ideal scenario for Lebron. With Cavs, he involved too much in the FO decisions.
Now he seems like falling in line with the plans laid out by magic. He seemed to be willing to wait out one year.
Yes aggravating considering how many of his boys he brought on. Damon freaking Jones. Ridiculous. The corpse of Mike Miller.
Mike Miller was coming off a great season in Memphis where he scored 7 pts/gm on 2.5(!) shots/gm. His back just went out on him. Everybody said James Jones was an important bench presence and he played surprisingly well in the finals. Besides Damon Jones, who started as a d-league shooting coach, there’s only Randy Mimms, and he just does player program logistics (organizes stuff for them on the road, which is why he travels with them) and has nothing to do with personnel decisions.
This as always is a subjective discussion, and many of us Cleveland fans may be infused with emotion with his most recent departure ( either for or against him), but personally, for me- Lebron is the greatest player of all time- the GOAT. No one ever better than him to play the game.
Smacks of recency bias. All those guys played in different eras in relation to the salary cap, player salaries and the “science” of team building. – Of course you could build around Russell and Mikan. Free agency didn’t exist. -Kareem forced his way to the Lakers after 5 years and 1 ring (the year after Oscar got there) in Milwaukee (ask them how they felt about building around Kareem). Then didn’t win a ring until Magic got there. – Bird and Magic went to ideal situations. Magic joined Kareem as a rookie and won a ring. Red overhauled the team… Read more »
Awesome comment^. Duncan may be an outlier, but the ownership and front office of where he played all his career is better than any in all of American sports’ history. I’d pick Lebron over anyone to build a team around. But you got to have a rock solid ownership group that builds an incredibly intelligent, competent front office. (i.e Peter Holt with RC Buford)
The Cavs should try and grab Bol Bol (Minut Bol’s Son) in the 2019 NBA draft.
Reading the article on ESPN about LBJ and Magic’s 3 hour meeting – it is clear that this type of thing has been missing from the Cavs ever since Griffin left. Lebron may always have been LA bound, but I think Griff leaving, and the cascade of problems that sprang from that, was the proverbially nail. LBJ is doing what we knew he would: he’s strategizing how to change his game as he ages. I don’t think the Cavs ever had a plan, or had communication with him to fill that part of his mental game. Griff did that. Dan… Read more »
What it sounds like is that James is finally willing to operate how he should have been over the past four seasons, OFF THE BALL. One more thing he never afforded the Cavs…
I’m with JMay
Ummmmm… we’ll see how long that off the ball stuff lasts. Lonzo Ball can’t break his man down off the dribble, Ingram can’t pass and Kuzma is mostly a finisher. A lot of the same stuff was said in 2014 because Kyrie was already there, but then it turns out that you can’t run a motion-based offense when your point guard doesn’t know how to run an offense and Dion Waiters is on your team, so Blatt waived the white flag, let Kyrie and Lebron go 1 on 1 and focused on the defense. I think that seasons goes differently… Read more »
Full Season RPM Data for Lakers signings.
First number is ranking at position (not overall)
Name, Games Played, MPG, DRPM, ORPM, RPM,
47 Rondo 65 26.2 -0.6 -0.37 -0.97
94 Lance 82 22.6 -0.32 -3.01 -3.33
44 McGee65 9.5 -0.61 0.3 -0.31
19 Pope 74 33.2 0.88 -0.32 0.56
The thing is, it’s a new chapter. I don’t think he cares. If they can get Kawhi and Kawhi is engaged and driven, then Lebron will go for it and hunt another ring. But otherwise, I think his priorities have shifted.
I’ll believe it when I see it. He also very similarly said he understood that it was going to be a journey in 2014. Then he got out on the court with young Kyrie and Dion Waiters after they’d been playing in a Byron Scott/Mike Brown offense for 2-3 years, couldn’t take it anymore and basically forced Blatt to abandon his motion-based offense and give him and Kyrie the ball.
I’m honestly more worried about Luke Waltons’ mental health than anything else.
@Chris Francis – thanks for the summer league updates.
You got it JRL!
Nate, are we having a separate thread for the summer opener tomorrow?
I believe they have someone lined up for the game tomorrow.
The way I see it, LeBron went to LA because it’s the only team he could go to that is set up to create a new superteam, but that won’t be able to complete said superteam until a good amount of time after LeBron signed, and therefore it doesn’t look like ring chasing. But, while many of you don’t think LA was a good choice, they are completely poised to surround LeBron with multiple superstars. 1. They have the cap space to sign a max FA next summer (i.e., Kawhi Leonard). They’d just have to figure out how to get… Read more »
Yeah… except that by the time this all starts to really coalesce… LeBron is about to turn 35… and, unless KD bolts from GS next summer, they aren’t going anywhere…
If all that was true, it makes no sense bringing in Rondo, Stevenson, and McGee. Known commodities. Shoulda signed Della-Type guys to play hard nosed and see if you can polish any of them into diamonds.
I think Magic and LeBron have no idea how to roster build.
I’m with Tom. There’s plenty of talent out there that can give you what Rondo and Lance do. No need to bring in headcases to go along Lavar drama.
Tom, I don’t quite follow your point. They signed veteran guys on 1 year deals that won’t affect the cap next summer. They have Ingram, Ball and Kuzma to continue to develop. I don’t think signing scrub nobodies on 1 year deals does a single thing for them. Rondo is a nice player and will push Ball. They needed a center and signed one in McGee. And Stephenson… well, I don’t understand that one. But regardless, these are 1 year deals and do nothing to take away from free agency next season.
Gordon, it’s interesting they “needed” a Center.
Last year, their top two players in terms of PER, RPM, and WS/48 were both Under-25 Centers. Larry Nance Jr. and Julius Randle.
I’ll eat crow if the Lakers are a top 4 seed next year. If I was a better man I’d wager they’re more likely to miss the playoffs than get a top 4 seed.
Or maybe you just think LeBron is cool with wasting a year – seems counter to everything he said/did on his way back, while he was here.
I think Bron is resigned to the fact that he is not winning any more titles with GSW intact.
He can go to LA. Concentrate on the other parts of his life beyond hoops. His wife has an interest in LA.
He knows he will have to change his game as he ages.
If it all comes together it is the cherry on top and he does not look like a chaser since he went first. If not, he has nothing to prove.
Minimum guys are not going to be very good cap filler when you’re trying to poach a superstar who wants out for 50 cents on the dollar, though.
Rob Pelinka is the one making these decisions and Magic signs off and closes the deal if necessary. By all accounts Pelinka is a wiz when it comes to the salary cap and trade math.
He just came off of arguably his best season, with arguably his best playoff performance, but age is an issue? We’re talking 12 months from now they could easily have 3 superstars on that team.
Look, if your take is: they are punting on this season so pay no attention to the roster moves.
Ok, seems insane, but I guess if they aren’t actually trying you can’t fault them for putting together a ridiculous team. Of course, the article today on ESPN says they are purposefully adding “playmakers” to give LeBron a completely different look. So they are indicating this is all part of the plan.
The ‘playmakers and defense’ narrative is hilarious. Can’t wait to see all the Lebron eyerolls on the court next season…
Luke Walton gonna be spitting up blood…
That’s all smoke screen. If you’re adding “playmakers” around Lebron, you don’t add Rondo and Stephenson on 1 year deals when Avery Bradley signed a 2 year 25 mil deal that is only guaranteed 2.5 mil or so in the second year. They are cap fillers that required little or no negotiation or competitions in case a trade comes up.
Not his best season. Not even close. Defensively he was hot garbage most of the year. In the playoffs he was pretty piss poor defensively for a fair amount of the time due to having to conserve energy. That is the difference between Lebron now and Lebron in 2010-2014 when he was a two way beast every game of the playoffs and most of the regular season.
He also played on much better defensive teams 2010-2014. He was the engine of their defense, but not the be all end all of it (DWade was a menace in the passing lanes and Bosh was probably top 2-3 big man on defense, plus Shane Battier). Nobody can carry the offensive load he does and play defense like he used to in the modern game if they aren’t also surrounded by good defenders and a good system. I mean, did you see what it looked like when the Heat played the Spurs in 2014? They were just running him ragged… Read more »
Sure. The heat and Wade were not the same team in 2014. They were already old, save Lebron. Lebron still had an incredible series save for the cramps. Cramps not necessarily due to how much they were running him specifically around but due to him being 270 plus. He isn’t anywhere near as big now as he was then.
I think if he had Draymond Green’s role on a team, or even Kawhi or KD, he could still fly around on defense for 32 min a night be all defense 1st or 2nd team. But there’s a reason Kerr always just waits for Lebron to tire out in the finals. Creating every shot, making move after move, counter move after countermove to get to the rim for 40-45 min a night is just exhausting. Even playing decent defense is hard at that point.
Also, they may be able to sign a superstar next year but eventually they are going to have to gut their talent. We forget that the reason GS was able to afford 4 superstars is because Curry’s ankles were a HUGE question mark and was signed to a criminally cheap contract before a one time cap spike allowed them to then sign Durant. They can now go into the Luxury Tax to sign all these guys to max contracts when they need to. You can’t do that from the outside. The Lakers may be able to sign 3 superstars but… Read more »
What Lakers have is four players in rotation in rookie contracts. They will be in ideal situation if two of those players lift their games to all star level since they will be cheap and Lakers would be able to extend them at any cost. Losing too many of those for Kawhi would leave team with no depth and chance to improve upon.
Crap shoot on if those guys turn into “superstars”. The most likely scenario is always that they end up serviceable vets.
Based on what WOJ is reporting though, Kawhi doesn’t want to be in LBJ’s shadow…whether thats with LAL or LAC.
I think Ball has the best chance to become a star. Elite passing and rebounder for a PG, I could see him becoming the next Jason Kidd. I really like Kuzma too, forced to create too much as a rookie, but could be a dynamic stretch 4 role player with his shooting.
Ingram and Kuzma looks like they will atleast be borderline all stars.
I could see Ingram being a borderline guy…. wary of his ability to shoot and playmaking. But surprised how well he performed in those areas last year.
So the plan is to just kick the can this year and then gut the roster next season and get three superstars? There’s several problems with that plan though. 1. As others and I have mentioned, LA would need to nearly gut their roster to get the necessary cap space to sign another superstar at a max contract. And they would have to do that before “trading other assets” to bring in a third, otherwise most the cap would already be gone. And even it they managed to trade those other guys to bring in a third superstar, you would… Read more »
LeBron James’ Departure Upsets Cleveland Cavaliers Fan
The fan wanted to burn LeBron’s jersey — he laid it on a paper beer case and dumped fuel on it. He then reached in with a match, and ended up setting himself on fire. Reports say he’ll be okay.
https://www.npr.org/2018/07/05/626049336/lebron-james-departure-upsets-cleveland-cavaliers-fan
DarWINS!
You can put me in the “I’ll always enjoy the championship, but…” camp. The decision to go to LA is baffling for all of the reasons JMKP and Excl explained. This was a great article, by the way. I never wanted LeBron to leave again, but I definitely wouldn’t have minded rooting for him on Philadelphia or Houston to take down the evil Warriors. But now? I agree with Tom Pestak’s thoughts on the last podcast, and I’d love to hear more from him. The “I’m Coming Home” letter that was so valued to northeastern Ohioans over the last four… Read more »
Ultimately, I think the decision is just the culmination of LeBron being a bad leader during these 4 years in Cleveland. Jack mentioned below that LeBron recruited Kevin Love to sign a long term deal after the 2015 season. That’s certainly not the way I remember things happening. LeBron specifically said during that playoffs run that he wasn’t going to try to convince Love to stay. It was Love that set up the famous poolside meeting where Kevin decided to commit to Cleveland. That just seems to be the way LeBron operates. He is never willing to communicate with those… Read more »
It’s also seems really strange to me how unceremonious this exit has been. I mean Jose Calderon wrote a more heartfelt goodbye…
it has been really strange. the moves the lakers are making are REALLY strange, bordering on GM malpractice. Somebody wrote a piece recently that I loved where he said “why aren’t more people upset with Kevin Durant for ruining the NBA” and it was basically: today’s sports journalists, and the “ride or die” NBA fans on twitter – are all pro-player rights and so no one wants to criticize Durant because he was “within his rights” yada yada. Same thing for LeBron, only with Cleveland folk, everyone is tripping on themselves to make sure they virtue signal that: “I’m appreciative… Read more »
Points I agree with, all of them. The quotes are good ones to pull out and most of the ones that I would have pulled myself. The letter is what gets me fired up the most. It now has been turned into something very disingenuous.
I always thought the letter was pure PR.
Yeah, that letter was not only pure PR, but the kind of thing PR firms exist to create.
Can somebody please explain to me why anybody is putting the blame on Lebron for leaving instead of Dan Gilbert? Dan Gilbert is the one who takes tax dollars from the city to renovate the arena and leveraged the team and Lebron to get his casino, which he profits from immensely. He makes money overall regardless of whether Lebron is in Cleveland, but the city is disproportionately better off with Lebron on the Cavs. If that’s the case, it’s his responsibility to do everything he can to keep Lebron, even if it means putting his ego on the backburner. True,… Read more »
Dan Gilbert and his mismanagement since the Championship is why LeBron isn’t retiring as a Cav. A series of just terrible decisions indicative of both his arrogance and relative ignorance regarding basketball. In the podcast, everyone except Tom put Gilbert among the top five reasons why James left. On my list cavsdan is the first reason by a mile.
I should clarify that I wasn’t referring to the podcast specifically, but more people in the comments (and I suspect around Cleveland, in general). There is a solid block of people who just continue to throw out the same myths about Lebron’s time in Cleveland: Myth 1: Lebron never recruited players to come to Cleveland. Fact: He personally recruited Kevin Love to re-sign in 2015, basically begged Ray Allen to come in 2015 (but he couldn’t come to terms with front office on money, according to Allen), recruited DWade and Deron Williams to come to Cavs on the min. even… Read more »
+1
Reports are that when Bron refused to commit long term, the PG13 deal fell through. If true, he cost us PG13.
Why would Gilbert ask Lebron for a commitment? OKC didn’t ask PG13 for a commitment before they (disastrously) traded for Carmelo Anthony. They made the move that they thought best positioned them to keep Paul George. And that’s why they kept Paul George and the Cavs lost Lebron. New Orleans didn’t ask Anthony Davis to commit to another extension before they traded for Boogie and then let him walk in favor of signing Julius Randle. They are making the best moves available to them at the time to build a team that he’ll want to stick with. I mean, if… Read more »
Gilbert didn’t ask LeBron for a commitment. Paul George asked LeBron for the commitment and since ‘Bron wouldn’t commit, PG wouldn’t commit for more than the rest of his contract.
And I thought the trade was agrees but then the Pacers backed out at the last minute and said he didn’t want to trade PG13 to an eastern conference team?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/articles.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2017/07/cavs_owner_dan_gilbert_says_in.amp
Yuuuuuuup…. The fact is that a lot of people like to ignore reality. Dan Gilbert got up on a podium and basically said they offered a better package for Paul George than OKC. He had no problem trading for George, but first he wanted to try to railroad Lebron into making a commitment he wasn’t ready to give yet. And that powerplay backfired on him. Kyrie to PHX, 4th pick to Indiana and George + Bledsoe to Cavs was reportedly a done deal before the draft if Gilbert pulls the trigger. Worst case, Lebron and George leave and you end… Read more »
@Jack, I’m not sure that makes sense. Why would Gilbert feel the need to “get up on a podium and basically say they offered a better package for Paul George than OKC” unless that deal was turned down by Indiana? If it was Cleveland (either Gilbert or LeBron) that backed out, why would he even bring this up and make himself look bad? Also, did Gilbert also ask for a commitment from LeBron before he made the midseason trades for Nance, Clarkson, Hood, and Hill and took on a bunch more salary in the process? Obviously, those deals had mixed… Read more »
There were 2 of potential Paul George trades that almost went through: — Kyrie to PHX, PHX 4th pick to Indiana and George+Bledsoe to the Cavs. That is the one where Gilbert reportedly said he was pulling the trigger if Lebron would commit, but Lebron wouldn’t do it. — Love to Denver, Garry Harris + 13th pick to Pacers and George to Cavs (there was a variation on this that had Melo to the Cavs as well but the details on that are shaky), and that’s the one the Pacers backed out of at the last minute, and Dan Gilbert… Read more »
On top of that, why would Gilbert risk that? Clearly the decision for Bron to go to LA isn’t a basketball one. For all we know, LeBron leaves Love and George for LA no matter what. After all, if Bronny is calling the shots, who knows what would have happened. Gilbert could have traded away our most valuable assets and then been left with nothing. And lets not forget that Gilbert had that paranoia because of LeBron in the first place.
Yeah it’s probably mostly Gilbert’s fault. But he’s what we got, and LeBron is gone, and what is pro sports except for blind provincial chauvinism? In the end it seems like James’s local roots didn’t really mean THAT much to him, so he can pound salt. Soooooo go Cavs! And our horrible slimy owner!
Lebron’s roots meant enough for him to suffer Gilbert and make him money for 4 more years, even though he hates him, to come back to Cleveland, win a ring and basically put the downtown economy on his back. We wouldn’t hold it against somebody for taking in another state because he hates his boss in Cleveland, so I don’t think it’s fair to do it to Lebron either. I believe Lebron is going to be giving back to Cleveland and Akron for the rest of his life in other ways, but I can’t say I have the same confidence… Read more »
Lebron has .0001% to do with Cleveland’s economy. You could argue that simply having a basketball team makes some positive impact, but it’s all just redistributing dollars that would likely go to center city entertainment anywise. Downtown Cleveland in July of 2014 was a much better place than downtown Cleveland in May of 2010.
First of all you’re comparing the absolute beginning of an economic recovery/end of an economic recession vs. a time squarely in the middle of the recovery. Second of all, you definitely aren’t on the same page as most downtown restaurant/bar owners or basically any analysis of the downtown economy between 2014 and 2018.
I would say a 79% increase in the downtown population since 2000 has more to do with any revitalization but ya LeBron I guess
https://www.google.com/amp/s/deadspin.com/lebron-and-the-500m-lie-how-sports-economic-impact-st-1658861205/amp
That article is from 2014. That guy barely used any meaningful data at the time and didn’t have access to the data we have in 2018. That the money might be spent elsewhere is the crux of the argument for Lebron’s economic impact: the money is spent downtown instead of in affluent suburbs. Nobody was every worried about the vitality of Cleveland’s suburbs. The problem was that downtown was eroding due to suburban flight. There is plenty of recent statistical and anecdotal evidence that shows Lebron has had a measurable impact on downtown Cleveland. If you want to trust the… Read more »
Yeah and that’s because the narrative is that he’s to blame. If you listen to Windy on the Lowe Post he says he doesn’t blame Gilbert and actually thinks Gilbert kept up his end of the bargain. So I’m not a lone wolf.
Cmon, man. You won’t take what Windy reports as facts from sources into consideration, but you’ll take into account his speculation about Lebron’s state of mind? Can we at least be consistent here?
I don’t think windy has any sources close to LBJ anymore.
I’m pointing out that someone WITH sources on the inside isn’t piling on Dan Gilbert, unlike people like you.
He’s says that Dan Gilbert held up his end of the bargain financially, which he did. I’m not arguing that. He’s not saying that the front office insanity and botched Kyrie trade had nothing to do with Lebron leaving because it did, and he’s quoted numerous sources over the past year saying Lebron was not impressed by the way they handled things last summer.
Something we will never know is if LeBron always intended to go to LA, and/or if DG played a role in his departure. I tend to think LeBron was always planning to go to LA, but he maybe left a little earlier with Kyrie leaving and GS dominating. I’m at peace with it.
And Windy has all the insider info. I don’t. All I can comment on is what I know to be true. So all the stories about how Dan Gilbert is a jerk MIGHT be true, but I have no way of verifying that. All the stories about how he gets overly involved and micromanages for the worst, MIGHT BE TRUE, but I have no way of verifying that. I can verify that he’s spent more than any other owner in the time LeBron has been in Cleveland. I can verify that he puts the pride of the franchise front and… Read more »
Not to mention that Griff himself has never had a single bad thing to say about the organization. So furthering our inability to prove these negatives.
Griff wants to get another job. Dan Gilbert gave him a crash course in how not to act after you part ways with somebody.
You can’t just ignore every piece of reported information because you don’t get the information directly. Otherwise you have no information except Lebron went to LA, so what are you even opining about? How can you verify that Gilbert puts the pride of the franchise front and center? Because he spends money? That’s called a financial move to get the most out of his investment. If you can somehow glean from spending money that Gilbert puts the pride of the franchise front and center see that then you can also glean that Lebron was none too happy about the shit… Read more »
I hate on Gilbert because he blew up the front office in Lebron’s contract year, REPORTEDLY (widely reported, in fact) because Griffin wanted a budget and control over personnel moves, and Gilbert wanted him to consult with him more about personnel moves. That’s his prerogative, but an unstable front office is clearly a bad look to free agents (see anybody signing with the Kings?). And I hate on him because according to multiple concurring reports, he blew up a deal that would have netted Bledsoe and Paul George for an already disgruntled Kyrie because Lebron wouldn’t give him a commitment…… Read more »
If you listen to Griffin’s podcast he talks about how he was looking at trades for Kyrie and was prepared for a situation where Kyrie’s not “all-in”. He even talked with Kyrie’s agent about how he had to be prepared for anything. So why are you blaming Gilbert for it “getting out” that the Cavs were prepared to trade Kyrie. They were prepared to trade him because his camp (including his father) had been unhappy he was in Cleveland since the day he was drafted. Jack, you are exactly what I’m talking about. You are just mad and Gilbert is… Read more »
Those same people lost their minds that ONE TIME Cavs fans booed the Cavs at home “OMG they’re booing LeBron. Are they crazy? Don’t they know how lucky they are to have LeBron. Oh man he’s heading to NY on the next flight.”
There’s no “right way” to deal with LeBron.
I’m not even mad, man. I’m perfectly fine watching the Cavs move forward (granted, I would feel much better if I didn’t know that Dan Gilbert is going to let Koby Altman go as soon as experiences too much success). But I don’t like that there’s this camp of people who are pushing these false narratives about Lebron creating the situation by forcing the Cavs to overpay TT and JR, not signing longterm deals and not recruiting players. The 1st is just unfortunate realities of the NBA financial situation, shorterm deals are just irrelevant (KD is also playing on 1+1’s… Read more »
I mean, other than it being his decision and his decision alone? Nobody “forced” LeBron to do anything. Dan Gilbert did not “force” LeBron to leave. Sure, some of the terrible decisions may have influenced LeBron’s decision, but in the end, it was his to make. And he was the one who chose to leave. “Blaming” anyone else is to shift the responsibility of making that decision off James’s shoulders and onto the collective external stimuli that impacted his decision. We all have reasons for doing things but we all make our own decisions. He made his. Blame is his.… Read more »
Ok, you’re taking the word “blame” too literally. What I meant was more along the lines of “holding it against.”
Lebron is for all intents and purposes an employee of Dan Gilbert, and a very profitable one at that. You don’t blame or hold it against people for leaving a job at a dysfunctional company. You blame the company for creating a dysfunctional atmosphere because it is their responsibility to create a positive one. The employee’s job is to seek out the best situation for him/her.
I don’t think I am taking it too literally. I don’t think we can consider a Basketball organization the same any other company. Especially because LeBron himself is part of creating the dysfunction within the organization. Sure, he is most certainly not solely responsible, but he’s had his hand in plenty of the messes we have. Not to mention, LeBron has far more agency in how the company is being run than does a typical every day employee. Regardless, the choice was LeBron’s alone. It wasn’t Gilbert’s.
Why? Basket ball is a business. A CEO also has an outsized influence on how a business is run (way more so than Lebron on the Cavs), but often times the owner makes the final decisions.
Put it this way, did you pile it on David Griffin last year when he opted to leave the Cavs front office instead of accepting Dan Gilbert’s terms of his employment? The Cavs gave Griffin his first meaningful front office positions, didn’t he owe it to them just as much as Lebron?
Said this in response to you in another thread. Some, not all, of the mismanagement comes from being held hostage by one year deals. Impossible to truly build sustainable success while trying to please year to year an impatient and occasionally antagonistic star who is a major source of the team’s lackadaisical regular season effort since everyone follows his lead. Trying to placate LBJ to convince him to stay because he doesn’t have patience, or at least didn’t with the cavs, seriously caused the roster inflexibility. Also Klutch’s influence and decision to hold out in the middle of championship contending… Read more »
I saw. Your Klutch conspiracy theory is old and quite honestly just ridiculous. It completely ignores the Cavs’ salary cap situation and the fact that Tristan and JR did what anybody in their position would do with their leverage. That’s called the business of the game. Verajao and Pavlovic also held out in 2008 and they were not represented by clutch, but it was the same situation. Cavs were capped out and they had all the leverage. The short term contracts make zero difference in how they should go about building a team. The Warriors built their team with the… Read more »
You’re both right. The Cavs overpaid for TT and J.R. I guess whether or not we want to blame LeBron is a function of how much influence he has on Klutch. Terry Pluto had a really interesting “Defense of LeBron” piece after he got a bunch of emails from people complaining about the way LeBron held the team hostage. That Iman Shumpert deal. Oof. Griffin shoulda locked up Delly and TT the season before for 10s of millions less than they were paid after the cap spike and never shoulda resigned Shump. And hindsight, but they shoulda let J.R. walk… Read more »
I mean, if Rich Paul needed Lebron to tell him to have TT and JR hold out, then he’s not very good at his job. JR is still a very good defender when he can lock in on the right matchup. He still owns Derozan and played great D on Paul George last year, and he harassed Klay Thompson into some really average shooting 2015-2017. But yeah, this year was just a disaster besides owning Derozan again.
No. He’s not. He’s terrible now. Routinely destroyed on the ball and lost off it. He fell off a cliff this year.
Sorry. As a Gm/owner you can’t afford to discount the fact that Lebron can leave after any one year deal. As such, you can only focus year to year, which is a huge huge reason they had to sign TT and JR to the horrific contracts they did. They could have let them walk, but if the cavs suffered a down year before being able to replace them, you have zero guarantee as an owner or GM that LBJ stays because you let two pieces walk who were known at the time to be not worth the money they wanted.… Read more »
He signed a 4 year deal with an opt out after 3 years, which means they already have to start thinking hard after this year. It’s not that much of a commitment. He basically signed a 2 year deal here twice and both times re-signing was more or less a foregone conclusion. If a player demands a trade, you grant it. It’s always been this way. Kyrie had 2 years left on his deal and the Cavs traded him. The Cavs front office mismanaged TT’s deal. He was open to taking as little as 3 years for with higher annual… Read more »
Right off the bat. Lebron only ever signed one and ones with the cavs. A player option means one year essentially. To say anything is disingenuous. We’ll see what happens with Kawhi. The point is TT was never worth anywhere near that money per year, five years or three makes no difference. Not even close. I was in favor of letting both JR and TT rot on the bench for forever. Cavs had their bird rights in perpetuity.
Also the Klutch thing is not a conspiracy. I don’t necessarily think LBJ had anything to do with them holding out. Unfortunately the conflict of interest remains. Nothing can get around that. I get the cap situation, but if you are building thinking for a couple years of a championship window instead of just the very next year because of one year deals then you let them walk, or better yet you let them sit out the whole season or forever long they want until they cave. Because in the end, due to the free agent bird rights, they would… Read more »
First of all, this is 2018, man, and Lebron is the VP of the NBPA. He can’t tell 2 teammates to give up their leverage and stop holding out.
Second of all, the so-called “conflict of interest” you’re describing is a common, every day NBA occurrence for the last 30 years that is blown out of proportion because it is somewhat connected to Lebron. Every agent represents multiple players and uses one player as leverage to get other players paid. All of the biggest agents are known for this.
He also doesn’t have to repeatedly publicly call for them to be signed during the hold out. There is a difference. And none of those agents have one tenth the leverage of Rich Paul. That is the truth.
I grew up in Cleveland and moved to LA when I was 28. I’m 55 now. You can’t write about a city if you’ve never lived there, most of your criticisms are clinches and stereotypes. There might be some elements of truth in what you write, but a city of 6 million with perhaps the most diverse population in the country, 200 languages are spoken here, is filled with complexities and nuance. LeBron and his family have been exposed and a part of celebrity high society for years. A huge number of current and past NBA players have homes here.… Read more »
Great response!
Solid points. I’d push back on the “you can’t write about a city if you’ve never lived there” point. Think of it like a spectrum. On one side, you have a resident of X city for 80 years, who knows everything about said city. Of course that person’s perspective is valued, as they have seemingly “earned” the right to speak about it. However, they might fall into subjective biases about it since they are from said city. On the other hand, you have someone who never visited city X, doesn’t speak the language, and doesn’t know anything about it. For… Read more »
I have more issues with the sprawl of western cities. Build up, not out. Suburban sprawl is so wasteful as is not having legit public transportation for that size city. Needless carbon emissions alone is ridiculous. Lastly, it will only be 20 years or so before western metropolises work out a deal with the US government/Canada to import/pipeline water from the Great Lakes. LA, Phoenix, Vegas, and basically every SW city except for Albuquerque (which has its own aquifer) is dependent on the Colorado River. As such the environment simply cannot support that amount of people. Building cities of that… Read more »
Abq uses the Rio Grande, which is almost dry. They have already cut water consumption by 2/3 per person to keep at that level.
Sprawl. Good point, but for many people living in a big city is the worst. Why would they move to a city with all the crazies? Living nearish to a big city is the sweet spot.
It also has a vast underground aqufier. But yeah that aquifer is slowily drying, but they at least have a plan for recharge.
I like living in cities, but am in my very early 30s, without kids, and grew up in what I would deem as sprawl hell.
I get enough of the outdoors in my job (which I love), so other than camping, and visiting national parks I have no desire for a big property.
No one is stealing our Great Lakes. I’d die on that hill. The West mismanages their water like crazy. They need to fix themselves. Ain’t no one coming after our Lake Erie water.
If you want, there’s a great new(ish) book about it – The Death and Life of the Great Lakes, by Dan Egan. Best book on the Lakes I’ve ever read.
Because I failed to skip past the headlines today, I gotta ask. Which is more egregious: Lebron going to the Lakers or Joey Chestnut’s career choice?
I dunno, Joey seems to be happy with his career choice. Gotta love his quote from yesterday: “I hit a vicious rhythym!”
So the former, I guess.
I’ve made several trips to LA for business, and it has always struck me as an absolute armpit. Even my co-workers out there would tell me that it pretty much sucks but didn’t think they could stand Ohio winters by contrast. I’d rate LA very low for overall quality of life. I appreciate your balanced view on politics, but I think you have some bad info on GMOs. Neil deGrasse Tyson isn’t wrong, but there is a further point he’s completely missed about the natural unmodified foods (brilliant guy but obviously not his area of expertise). He correctly points out… Read more »
Real estate seems to be absurd. 850000 for a two bedroom in Compton does not compute.
Yeah, it’s crazy. I would tell my co-workers about what they could get for 350k is most areas of Ohio and they’d cringe in envy.
I think that is why LA is probably more appealing to those who don’t have any financial constraints, as opposed to the common man.
Yeah, this probably isn’t the place for the debate over GMOs.
I appreciate your point on GMOs – it’s hard to find a single source that has everything possible in the safety of GMOs. I could have linked to a ton of scholarly stuff (which would have gotten intense) or other articles from science magazines. NDT’s basic explanation was surface-level enough to win me over for a Cavaliers fan site. I want to push back on the “natural unmodified foods” you talk about – literally everything we eat today has been genetically modified. For instance, if you look at what corn came from, it wasn’t a nutritional powerhouse, just a piece… Read more »
I should probably put a few disclaimers about this piece. The first being, this originally was supposed to be a “Why going to LA makes no sense for Lebron”, and then he ended up going anyway before it was done. A few of the points had to be switched up because it no longer made sense after the first few moves in Free Agency. Next, I’m not mad that Lebron left, so don’t think this is a “bitter fan” thing. I’m just completely baffled that he chose LA over just about everyone, because of the reasons above. Unless he was… Read more »
I’d speculate that Lebron went to LA for some of these reasons: 1. It’s a new challenge, something fresh. As Tony Soprano might have said, for the Cavs, things were “trendin’ downward.” 2. Opportunity to work with Magic in basketball, and, more importantly, in future business dealings. 3. I read this elsewhere and think it’s pretty important: knowing the burden of being the “Chosen Son,” Lebron may have gone to LA so that his own son wouldn’t be expected to fill his shoes in Cleveland. But, hey, maybe he will come back again in three or four years. By then,… Read more »
I have no problem with any of that. Just say it if that is the case. Having your ‘people’ leak he left because the Cavs couldn’t compete, and then going to a less competitive team is contradictory.
I think that the Lakers may be temporarily worse than the Cavs. We’ll have to see what they do in the next year or two.
I love the quotes from sources saying Bron left because theCavs could not win….
1) So he goes to LA
2) Our worst contracts are Klutch
3) Bron drove Kyrie out
I’ve come around to the belief that LA has been his end game for years. Whether there is any truth to the Nike conspiracy theory or not. In any case, it’s clear that winning wasn’t near the top of the reasons for the Laker move.
All about the $$$$$$$$$$$$
Other than the fact that he could have made a lot more by staying.
As a basketball contract, yes, but that is not the big chunk of his income.
Yup… what MikeO said.
Uh… no… LA is the entertainment capital of the world and 2nd largest media market in the US. Basketball represents roughly 1/3 of his total yearly income.
But he’s already the face of the NBA, he’s done ads for just about everybody and has done movies in the off-season. What opportunities is he going to get now that he couldn’t before? Unless he films his own sit-com during the middle of the season, what else has changed?
There are infinitely more opportunities to grow his media and production empire in LA than Cleveland, Ohio…. it’s really naive to think otherwise IMO. Hell, major players in the music industry are leaving NYC to go to LA for more opportunities… much less Cleveland, OH.
Doing ads or acting in a movie is nothing like running your own media conglomerate, which is what he’s trying to do.
Nice piece overall but a bit too tough on LA culture. Wife and I vacation there twice a year, and we love what the city offers…..except the traffic which indeed is often horrific. The people are more down to earth than you infer, and I would attach your descriptions more to Miami people. Our daughter attended the U and I was glad when she graduated. Nevertheless well written
Thanks – I’d agree that Miami (and large parts of Florida…specifically the Orlando area) are insane.
He clearly did not make this move for basketball reasons. I don’t know whether to feel better or worse about that. Probably the latter — it’s just a little too Cleveland that our home-grown legend has this kind of weird mindset. I definitely would’ve felt better seeing him go to HOU, PHI, or even San Antonio. Hell, even Boston — as much as I hate them — would still be more palatable as a pure basketball move. Oh well. I’m at peace with it. I was pretty sure he was gone (though not quite as sure I was in 2010… Read more »
Agreed, but let’s be honest: how many basketball towns are lucky enough to have their homegrown star turn out as LBJ did, be able to draft him, get seven years from him, and get him a second time (after his owner put him on blast) at the level he played in YEARS TWELVE TO FIFTEEN of his career? The ride was a crazy drama-filled one, and has littered my memory with many incredible moments. His “weird” mindset comes part and parcel, I believe, with being a basketball genius. Maybe we aren’t to understand his motives, insecure or confusing as they… Read more »
THANKS NATE FOR THE ” BONZIE ‘ UPDATE / KIND OF FIGURED THAT WAS THE CASE——HAVE READ WHERE ALOT OF TEAMS WERE INTERESTED IN SIGNING HIM—CAVS BEAT THEM TO THE PUNCH——-MAYBE A GOOD FIND
Nice piece, JMKP. I agree with the arcing sentiment–LBJ may have been swayed by aspects of the move we haven’t considered or should not be privy to, as it is a personal decision. Yet, if it were a basketball decision, he has been lured by fool’s gold or some bizarre, unrealistic expectations. Is Durant planning to be a Laker next year? THAT might be the only thing I see working for him in the move, which most folks are not talking about. I rewatched The Return of the King with the kids Monday after I found out LeBron left… and… Read more »
I love the LOTR metaphor. All else being equal, the annual chase for championships is my preference. We might have gotten spoiled with the ability to Madden-simulate a season and show up playoff time for four years straight. I always think LOTR metaphors when we discuss about going away/coming home. For my own journey, I went away from home for college and didn’t permanently return home till much later. I felt Bilbo-like in my going on adventures and coming home. LeBron seemed to do the same thing with Miami. People do need to get away and explore the vastness and… Read more »
took a break from the ‘burgers/ beers / brats ….and yes grandkids—–WELCOME COLLIN —-THIS IS YOUR TEAM !!
https://twitter.com/cavs/status/1014554588438032385
Both LA and SF are dirty AF. I’m sure they were pleasant once. It’s the landscape outside the cities that would attract me,
Ryan Hollins is doing the pregame show of the hotdog eating contest.
LA is okay, but I prefer San Francisco.
Happy 4th!
Did we ever figure out what happened with Colson?
Still injured? Signed to our SL team [http://www.wndu.com/content/sports/Bonzie-Colson-signs-with-Cavs-Matt-Farrell-to-Heat-486365321.html] so might still show up?
He’s on the roster but not ready for summer league.
HAPPY 4TH —-FORGETTING ABOUT BASKETBALL FOR A DAY—-MAIN FOCUS —BEER / BURGERS / BRATS AND PLENTY OF BONDING WITH THE GRANDKIDS …………….AND MAYBE LATER THE MRS NOMAD—-ENJOY—BE SAFE !!!
Nice piece guys, and Happy 4th! LA isn’t as bad as all that, but points well taken…
Haha. Was hoping you didn’t come out swinging against these guys!
There is something about LA that makes it attractive to celebrities: anonymity. No one here will bother him. More, there are a million places to hide that cater to ultra wealthy. He may want to be in a place where he doesn’t have the pressure of legend status. He’s just another guy.
Are you aware of paparazzi?
Yes. I live here. Paparazzi don’t follow around his ilk. They’re after pop stars. Trust me. I see famous people a lot. Nobody gives a crap.
Thanks! Maybe some animosity about the LeBron move to LA sparked some negativity…
I figured that this piece would create some conversation at least. In the wake of the LeExit, I had a lot of ideas kind of swirling around all at once.
FWIW, I expect the Cavs to sign no one.
Sexton, Hill, Cedi, Love, Nance + Clarkson, Hood, Korver, JR, TT, Zizic + White, Mathias, Preston, & Colson = 15.
Perhaps some of the latter group end on 2 ways & we do have room for 2 signings.
I find mtself rooting against LeBron. Hopefully they don’t make the POs.
That would be so wonderful. If that happens and Boston somehow doesn’t make the finals I would be very pleased.
Philly and Indy and Toronto will all be solid in the East.
West: GSW, Hou, OKC, Utah, NO, Minny, Denver, and Portland all seem solid. If Kawhi plays, or the Spurs get players back, count them in. That is 9. Gasol, Conley, & JJJ make Memphis interesting. Lakers make 11.
Gonna have to win close to 50 to get in.
Everytime I see JJJ… I can’t help but think J. Jonah Jamison…
Same. They might not, too, even assuming Lebron stays healthy etc…not a give to make the playoffs in the West…