Podcast 317: Go *avs
2025-07-01Episode 317 found us on the first night of free agency (you know, BEFORE the Shamsbombs about Lillard’s buyout and Myles Turner becoming Buck). To start it off, Late bemoaned the Cavs’ decision to keep Sam Merrill over Ty Jerome (or both), a decision that was originally about money, that became less so when we figured out that Merrill got four 4/38 years instead of Jerome’s 3/28. The Cavs’ decision to sign Isaac Okoro to a multi-year deal last year ended up backfiring as it made the luxury tax payments very difficult when it came to keeping both. Chris talked me off the ledge with some salient counterpoints, but I still contend that Lonzo Ball isn’t going to play any meaningful playoff minutes for the Cavs.
Eli Kim joined us for the second session, and we rode my stalking horse for 6/30: a Darius Garland for LeBron James trade before the 2024 fiscal year ended. Obviously that didn’t happen, and there was a lot of meditation on LeBron’s weirdness and the mess of the Lakers. The general tone of the pod was muted frustration and reluctant patience before we went around the rest of the moves in free agency and their impact on the Cavs. Oh, and Eli tried to trade for Giannis again (another thing that is obviously not happening).
Finally we figured out who could be out there for the Cavs, busted a whole lot of chops, asked Eli what was for dinner, explored the details of his impending move, and discovered who his favorite hockey team is. It was a pretty fun 100 that saw us return to the podcast quality you’ve come to know and love.
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Angle Martinez 10th inning Grand Slam — Guardians winning streak rolls on!
After the end of the 2023/2024 season I wanted Garland traded bc we simply can’t fix the fact that he’s ineffective in the playoffs. The stats were mentioned by a few posters below – it’s jarring how much he drops off in the playoffs. After his bounce back year last year I was more hopeful that we could win a title with him, but then the playoffs happened. In the playoffs, Garland is either too brittle, or too small to defend, or too small to get his own shot. Overall, this leaves me with the conclusion that we’ll never win… Read more »
get real — he had broken toe. end of story.
How posters don’t get this, I don’t understand. Nerds look at paper stats who did not pay attention/remember what actually happened or just an axe to grind?
Regardless, he was abyssmal the two years prior. But he did have a couple big ones (G2 vs NY IIIRC).
I give him another shot. My hope Evan makes a leap to Option#2 level, so DG can become more of a facilitator/spacer and #3 option. As a #3, it does not hurt as much when he can’t shoot come PO time.
But we do need a real PG back if he’s dealt. I don’t see one on the market. Mitchell ain’t it, and Ball cannot be relied on for a starting role. All this isn’t to say I don’t think we’d be better off with 2 $20 mil guys (or 3 at 20/10/10) instead of DG. But given his clutch play last year in regular, he deserves a proper look to see what he/we can do healthy. But in the last 50+ years, I think Isiah/Dumars and West/Goodrich are the only 6’3″ & shorter backcourts to win titles. Both Gs elwere… Read more »
avoid thinking too hard.
Garland is who we got. he ain’t perfect, but he is pretty good. there is plenty of demand for DG, so it is possible a smart trade might happen — say a couple good, young, inexpensive players plus picks.
as it stands, if healthy, the Cavs will be the team to beat every year for a while. that is about as good as it gets for fans.
On the money. Agree 100%. Though “team to beat” is EC only, and maybe only for next year.
Agree.
OK COACH NOMAD IS “ BlOWING THE WHISTLE “ AND ………. “ MORE BEER 🍺 PLEASE FOR EVERYONE………….OF COURSE “ 👍🤪—————- CANT WAIT UNTIL CAVS SUMMER LEAGUE PLAYS TOMORROW NIGHT——— HOPING CPJ/ JASON/ NYQUIL / PROCTOR ALL SHINE ——- DARK HORSE IS ORMIER
What Nomad said. Remember supposed to be fun (at least much of the time). Definitely funner than Browns, and now Guards. Highly entertaining and reasonably successful season last year. Looks promising, if definitely not locks, for next year. We are not on every yr is the last yr rhythm a la LeBron (…who is not coming home via a trade). So some patience. And some smiles. And less vitriol (…save that for Knicks fans).
no kidding! we have a top team every year but people are still panicing
I was afraid you were going to give everyone 100 pushups if they didn’t quit chirping!
In this economy?
Lost in the Garland/backcourt defense discourse is it’s a topic because the offense has failed. If the offense performs like it’s intended, then the defense isn’t a focus. The backcourt is out there for their offense, not their defense. DM + DG lineups have fared well enough defensively — prior to these playoffs they were 55th and 78th percentile defensively. Make it the core four and it jumps to 79th and 88th percentile defensively. Supplement the backcourt with length, and the defense is good enough to win. The backcourt lineups have not had higher than 50th percentile offensive ratings in… Read more »
Image in question:
You spent five paragraphs to tell us that the secret to winning in basketball is scoring more points than you allow the other team to score. Thank you for this earth shattering revelation.
For whatever reason. Garland has been stinking at this in the playoffs. The size issue isn’t just defense. It’s inability to score against set defense and taller defenders as well as the rebounding problem.
I’ve seen enough to know I’ve seen too much.
Add it to the pile, Cavs are 20 points better per 100 with DG off the court in the playoffs, defense goes from dogshit to elite… we’re dealing with a real smooth brain here sadly.
Also FTR, Indiana’s defense gets 2 points BETTER per 100 in the playoffs with McConnell on the floor. Shameless statistical misrepresentation from Mr. Smooth Brain, but I never expect better tbh
do you really think this is a normal response
For you? Definitely, now go tell mommy your diaper is full.
While I tend to agree in the main…
1) I give him a pass on this post-season due to injury. He is better than those #’s (for this year). But he was brutal vs NY & Boston. He just totally went deer in headlights and could not handle the physicality.
2) Which is not THAT unusual for a first PO go round. The 2nd time had me ready to trade him, but then he was ine of be best clutch guys in the association for much of this year.
3) Because of that clutch play last year, in the regular, I give him another shot.
4) And because, we’d need a PG back, who is that gonna be? We are essentially stuck with him at this point..
One more run, it he struggles mightily again, you have to break it up..
Take it up with the RCF crew, who wrote the tweet.
The bitch just jumps out of you all. Never ever getting to substance.
Gotta put your dukes up and be defensive. Typical “I’m secure in what I think I know” — you’ve wasted a lot of life being wrong.
fyi, LeBron will be a Cav on 6/30/25. you did three hundred twenty podcasts being wrong, but keep talking about your brains like you are out here splitting fuckin atoms Einsteins. You gonna show us your SAT scores now?
1390 on the SAT. 640 verbal, 750 math
31 on ACT. 34 in science.
Fortunately, my first kid beat me with a 32.
None of being wrong is wasted life, either. I’ve enjoyed the times I was right and learned from the times I was wrong.
I’m the words of Dewey Cox, “it’s a beautiful ride.”
I got you beat on the ACT (34). Ditto SAT (740 verbal, 650 math).
But neither has a lot to do with hoops.
Nah. I was so much older then. I’m younger than that now.
hey, tone it down in here before coach NOMAD comes in the lockerroom and gives everyone whatfor!
BOUCHER / ACHIUWA / VUCEVIC —— ANY CHANCE/ DESIRE TO GET 1 OF THESE PLAYERS
they are all good, and all will want a real role that is more than Larry Nance insurance imo.
Boucher probably stays in Canada. Achuiwa was one of the worst Knicks to get minutes last year and got mostly shut down in playoffs. Vuc is still under contract with Bulls. I’d like the Cavs to try to get Kai Jones who is more of a tall wing, but he had some eye popping minutes for Dallas last year and is still just 24.
And yes, I’m aware of Kai’s history.
Of the three, Boucher would be far and away the best. Vuc on a buyout would be fine. I don’t feel like the Bulls have a history of giving guys buyouts
Reportedly, Beal’s shortlist:
Lakers, Clips, Dubs, Bucks.
https://www.yardbarker.com/nba/articles/report_cavaliers_not_among_teams_pursuing_3_time_all_star/s1_17132_42425245
Beal will apparently get “mostly bought out”, so he might might be wanting more than the min to make up for the difference. this will seriously limit the teams that will take him. if he does play for the min, the two main criteria are presumably chances to win and minutes to be played. minor criteria might include places he likes and friends on various teams. he can probably get some decent minutes with the cavs considering injuries, rest games, etc. he will have a chance to break into the regular rotation. as far as winning, the Cavs are a… Read more »
The Clips justctraded Powell. Beal would start in LA. And I believe everyone can offer more than us.
He is still likely to have $80-$100 million from the Suns incoming over the next two years.
It’s as simple as this: buyout guys want to play (if only to rehab reputation for the next deal or for pride), and there are no guarantees of a long playoff run.
We only lost one free agent and we have a first round pick who didn’t even see the floor really last year.
Just no room.
As much as I feel we still need a “real” C to backup JA, Nance did play a lot of C in Atlanta.
Starters: DG, Spida, Strus, Hunter, Mobley, JA
2nd unit: Ball, Merrill, Hunter, Wade, LNJ
3rd team: CPJ, Proctor, Tyson, ???, ???
Two Way: Travers, Tomlin, ???
doubt if the league will let the Cavs start with six guys on the floor
Re: Beal.
I hate him for $30-$50 million. But for $3? I’d be doing backflips. We have a ton of guys who have histories of breaking down come PO time (DG, Spida, Allen) or just in general (Ball, Nance, Wade). No such thing as too much depth. And DG will be out to start the year, most likely. Beal could spot start for Spida and can still shoot.
Agree chances are slim, though. But not zero.
I just don’t see any name guys coming. we have a good shot at a ring, but we also have no minutes really
other than having a couple guys with a history of injuries.
LOVE ME SOME K LOVE 👍🏀
Sources – Powell to Heat, Collins to Clippers in three-team trade – ESPN
Loave traded to Jazz. I am guessing Jazz do not plan to keep him on the roster.
I mean, he might be one of a small group of dudes willing to come here and be the 4th big with no actual opportunity to play or expectation of success.
Presumably he can still throw an outlet pass and the three point shot seems to have recovered a bit to 35%. let’s do it.
ha-ha — that would piss off Bickerstaff.
OTOH, wasn’t Love being a bad apple about playing time, which was why we cut him? there is a lot to think about, but adding Love might be a good idea.
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/cleveland-cavaliers/news/cavaliers-predicted-reunite-5x-all-star-nba-champion/e4326f2248236b6becbf81ed
It’s a much different situation now. And honestly they could use him in the regular season as a minutes eater.
You know if there is a situation where the other team is down a few points and shooting free throws in the final minute, I bet you can still count on Love to grab a rebound if they miss. Just saying, that could be useful in some situations.
sure, if he is happy with his role, he would be a good signing.
Lakers fans expect him to join LeBron.
also, fans all over the NBA are thinking they can steal Allen from the Cavs.
And he is a good FT shooter.
He can likely still defensive rebound as well. And drop some dimes.
He cannot guard or protect the rim, but considering what is left at C (Bryant, TT, Biyombo), I do not hate it.
I’d take Bryant but I think that’s me being a prisoner of the moment, he’s been very ass as a rule
Ben Simmons?
I’d take a flyer.
Garland extension eligible. Think 2/$100-105 is about right, maybe with a player option for a third.
Need to at least have DG and Mobley on board until we get control of our draft again imo.
No. He’s got a get healthy so they can move him.
They won’t move him except for a star; and more years on his contract at DeAaron Fox money increases his value. I am not convinced you should move him, given his fit and versatility-I think people underestimate his talent and overestimate the number and quality of players who will be available and helpful via trade. He is 20/7 on efficient three point shooting and high level passing, which isn’t replaceable in one player on offense. For someone who was on the Haliburton train two years ago, you should value Garland even more, bc he and Curry are the only PGs… Read more »
Garland’s not a guy who can play with Mitchell in the playoffs. He’s also not a “pass first” point guard. He’s injury prone. The difference with Hali is that Tyrese is long enough that he isn’t a guy worth hunting on D. FWIW, Curry wouldn’t be able to play with Mitchell either in the playoffs.
Speculation and hypothetical. Wanting no players who can be “hunted” on defense isn’t a prerequisite to playoff success, it’s a Nate preference. (and of course Haliburton was hunted and beaten plenty in the Indiana run) You may not like a small backcourt stylistically, but it’s never been the reason we lost an important game. “You can’t win with small guards” is myth…and we know from recent experience with the Warriors that myths about size and shooting die fast. The defense has been good with both guards. All of our playoff wins have featured both guards. And Garland is more pass… Read more »
Guys who get hunted in the playoffs, just off top.
KAT, Brunson, Banchero, Maxey, Hali, Luka, Kyrie, Harden, Jokic, Murray, Ja, Steph
(all of those guys have missed significant time – no one knows what injury prone means buuuuut)
As to guys who are injury prone, Garland tends to get hurt cause he’s slight (relatively), and gets hit in the face a lot.
Finally, if you’re gonna point to Lowry and VanVleet, that team was a bit of a unicorn as they had two exceptionally good defensive short guards who were built like linebackers, backed by super rangey wings and bigs like Kawhi, Siakam, Anunoby, Boucher, Gasol, Norman Powell, Delon Wright, Valanciunas, Danny Green…
Cavs don’t have the wing or big depth those teams had.
The finals team was absolutely stacked. Anunoby and Boucher were getting DNPs while Norm Powell was getting token minutes.
Hali has improved tremendously as a defender. While he’s not actively good, he’s at least no longer abysmal and they put him with other good defenders. The lesson of Ja, Steph, Kyrie, Harden, Murray, Murray, etc. is that you can have one offense first short guy in the back court, but you can’t have two and survive in the playoffs. I don’t know where you’re getting your Jokic stuff but he’s a defensive savant and has been his entire career.
let’s just see. i’d prefer to address the actual reasons we lost in the playoffs vs. trying to jump ahead and fix things that aren’t broken, but do you.
The Cavs lost cause Garland was hurt, and still stupidly played. No one could get a GD rebound at the end of game 2. The Cavs guards refused to play a possession game and feed the bigs in game 5.
….which has nothing to do with the size of the backcourt: they just needed to play better / be healthy. Execution problems are not personnel problems
Nate is not happy unless everyone on the Cavs is a top 1% player
I would be happy then, but could they keep that team together? Doubtful.
Garland presents some problems with D.
but in general, more top players is better then less.
His postseason offense has to improve to offset the poor D. It has not been there yet.
I’d give it one more year. But Spida is not a PG and we cannot rely on Ball’s health.
DG was a top clutch performer for much of the 82 last year. Let’s have onore look-see.
But you gotta stagger him and Mitchell a lot.
He took a big leap on the clutch stuff, and I’d expect it to carry to the postseason. I’m a huge Garland fan, though, I think he’s a savant. I also think you can deploy him and Mitchell in some different ways on defense. I think with Wade/Mobley/Nance/Allen, we have some great backline support and the guards should gamble and swarm more. TJ McConnell isn’t a good defender based on his career DRTG and some lineup data on realcavsfans, but they USE HIM in ways that help. I have to believe you can find a way to deploy a pair… Read more »
“TJ isn’t a good defender” is up there as one of the dumbest phrases ever uttered on this website, good to see that’s the kind of wares you were pimping LMFAOOO FOH
I mean, the stats and lineup data are what they are.
He’s deployed effectively but what do you want? He isn’t part of high percentile defensive lineups. Care to explain?
again, we always, ALWAYS fucking nut up about the last player to have a good quarter or two against us. Two years ago it was “WOE IS US WE NEED MITCHELL ROBINSON, KEVIN LOVE SAVE US,” year after that “WOE IS US WE NEED A WING TRADE GARLAND FOR KELDON JOHNSON”
…always prisoners of the moment, always fighting the last war, stuck in a rut (to the point of holding onto outdated metrics and perceptions like baby on a tit)
stats in question:
“Are you aware McConnell’s career playoff dRTG is 115 compared to Garland’s career playoff dRTG of 114? Or lineups with McConnell in them the last two playoffs were 15th and 17th percentile per possession defensively compared to Garland’s 1st percentile and 55th percentile per possession?”
tell me why those don’t matter. if it’s eye test and you like scrappy white dudes, who gamble on inbounds passes, cool. just be like “i ignore the last 40 or so feet of defense because I am stuck on HS level analysis”
RAOUL—-KNOW YOU ARE FEELING “ GAURDIANS PAiN “ LIKE I AM ………. “ MORE BEER 🍺 PLEASE “ —- THEIR SEASON IS OVER 😥
absolutely — tank time. hopefully Bieber will look good in the next couple weeks and will get us a haul of prospects at the deadline. I would also trade Santana and Clase.
the good news is that we should finally see our “big three” prospects.
Definitely painful, even just reading the game summaries. Hopefully Jose does not get bummed out.
it is actually remarkable that the Guards have been able to contend every other year.
part of this is because the big cities in the Central (Chicago, Detroit) haven’t put together a powerful team in a while. But Detroit was tanking for a lot of years, and now have a super team. the White Sox look to be in “suck forever” mode. hopefully the Guards can punt this year and contend again next year.
The Suns are expected to make a decision on Beal within a day or two. They can’t waive him like the Bucks did with Dame, as that would put the Suns over the limit on Dead Money, 15% of cap. It would have to be a trade (unlikely) or a buyout with him taking less so they can stretch him and be under 15%. He’s worth more than a min deal and probably gets a MLE from a contender, but it is worth a call. He might be willing to take less with the Suns on the hook for so… Read more »
IDK the mechanics on buyouts from the player end. I read on Dame that since he was fully guaranteed & waived, his $$ stay at the level of his Bucks contract no matter what he signs for. Those extea $$$ just offset Milwaukee’s payout. So he has no financial incentive so sign for more.
IDK if Beal would be similar or not under a buyout (I doubt it), or if him being stretched impacts it.
If there is a cap/CBA guru, have at it. I got nothing.
I saw some NBA talker claiming the deal is perfect for the Cavs. no clue if this guy knows what he is talking about.
Beal is a good fit in the system, but where are the minutes? I’d guess Denver or Milwaukee tbh
dunno, Beal can have Ty’s minutes. Cleveland has a better chance of reaching the finals than Denver, and Milwaukee is a long shot
I’d wager money on Milwaukee.
I think Beal has been somewhat of a problem player that has never helped a team win. we don’t really need him, so he might be more trouble than he is worth.
KJG’s Sunday article on Beal: https://kingjamesgospel.com/cleveland-cavaliers-bradley-beal-phoenix-suns-gift-ty-jerome-replacement-nobody-expected
Jock Landale to Grizz. I have a sinking feeling we are fine with Nance as the #3 C behind JA & Mobes, but I think that is too skinny.
We need some girth and ballast down low.
But it is tricky to fill because tye guy knows that he is not gonna play much with JA & Mobes eating almostcall the C minutes. But teams are playing bigger now.
Pluto has a good article on cleveland.com this morning. I guess I’m on the “Merrill as good defender” train after some re-watches. I think Sam has been WAY overvalued by segments of the fanbase two years ago, but if you just took a random month of last year, he’s better than Fontecchio or Kennard or Duncan. And he’s not doing so in a manner that I’d describe as unsustainable. He’s not as big as some of the other 3&D guards, but he just doesn’t make mistakes positionally. he isn’t super disruptive (which is true of many of our perimeter defenders,… Read more »
I think the Cavs will be pretty quiet in FA for a while. There are a couple top FA’s that MIGHT sign for the min (Brogden, Horford, ??). They will be likely to have plan A: wait and see if a decent team offers them some money, and if so, take it. At some point (when?) they will go to plan B: take the min from a team likely to make a long playoff run. The Cavs are widely considered to have the best odds of making the finals, so they will be able to get one or two of… Read more »
do players still get a chunk of playoff money for each round they are in? anyone know how much?
next year?
https://cavaliersnation.com/2025/07/04/report-cavs-almost-unanimously-picked-to-reach-2026-nba-finals/
You are almost assuredly correct. Though, you don’t want to wait until all the plan B guys are gone. There is not much at C. Plan C is grim.
We also might want to wait until Summer League. We should get hints on if CPJ & Tyson have leveled up, how close Proctor is, and if Tomlin can challenge for a spot. Othercteams as well..
For some teans, choices between a Plan B FA and a SL player loom at the bottom of the roster. Though we don’t really have a SL C.
FWIW, I read a piece on FTS that pointed out that the 2nd apron restrictions for signing high salaried players who are bought out only applies to IN SEASON buyouts.
Which makes sense given our interest in Ayton. But it does put Dame in play (this year or next). And LBJ if the annual saga ends in a buyout. Or Beal.
Would likely cost us a ton in tax. Though for Dame, the Bucks are paying him fully and what he signs for only offsets that. So he might sign to ring chase.
👍👍👍🏀🏀🏀 MR STEAL
If Proctor, Tomlin and Tyson whip ass I’m going to be so fuckin fired up.
Tomlin especially. Proctor seems awesome so that is my #2, and Tyson should be destroying everyone, so it’s more of a level check, but if Tomlin looks like a rotation guy with size…oh bitch…
CPJ could, too. Are we a threat to win it or am I completely delusional?
Rockets waived Jock Landale yesterday. If we don’t land Horford (and I doubt we do), Landale is in the Bryant, Bassey, Biyombo bucket as the best reserve C left in FA.
we had a chance this last year, but a much better one this year. just need health and some maturity — last year, we did a good job of operating as favorites in the regular season and against Miami. We did a great job of letting teams know they were outclassed — the near shutout quarter against Minny and Jarrett Allen stealing an entry pass on the first play to romp on Miami were my favorites. but we need to put foot to throat in Game 1 against Indy (and to be fair, OKC or NY couldn’t do it either,… Read more »
SIMMO—-LMAO —- I AM YOUR GUY —-….. “ MORE BEER 🍺 PLEASE “ 👍🤪🍺
PROCTOR REMINDS ME OF A TALLER ( WITH A JUMP SHOT) OF A CPJ —— ALWAYS UNDER CONTROL/ CALM / MAKE s GOOD READ s ( OFFENSE/ DEFENSE). GOOD ATTITUDE— TEAM PLAYER —— THE MORE I READ/ SEE —THE MORE I LIKE THE PICK —- HOPE HE HAS A POSITIVE SUMMER LEAGUE TO CREATE MORE EXCITEMENT 👍🏀
CPJ is a plus-plus run and jump athlete. Proctor seems…fine as an athlete, but what is exciting is the mental stuff: the shot is fantastic and the decision making has been superb.
He and Tyson are guys who will look better with good players.
yup, the real intrigue is Proctor fits perfectly with CPJ AND Tyson and they totally complement each other’s deficiencies.
I just want to see Tyson do useful things in the half court on offense or defense. Once that happens, I think I’m on the train, because I’m sold on him as a rebound-and-run playmaking wing in transition who can help win the possession game.
SIMMO — I AM TAKING A WILD GUESS THAT YOU MIGHT BE A HR MGR 👍🍺🤪
The only way we could confirm this is if we recruit an analyst that is a well-rounded, self-motivated with minimal skills gap and opposed to loud quitting.
MY “ NEW —POSSIBLE. SLEEPERS “ ROBINSON / KY ———. ORMIER / BAYLOR ——— JUST WANT TO SEE ATHLETIC TALENT ON DISPLAY FROM NIANG ( DID NOT GET THE OTHER NIANG s DNA ) WOULD BE NICE IF HE GOT HIS SHOOTING DNA 👍🏀
and locker room / interview vibes.
DELETE TT — WE HAVE SEEN ENOUGH OF THAT SHOW/ TIME FOR HIM TO GO TO THE BOOTH—-TAKE A FLIER BYOMBO 👍
HAPPY/ SAFE 4th EVERYONE!!! —— BEER / BARBECUE/ BURGER s ——- SONs ARE ALREADY CRACKING SOME COLD ROLLING ROCKS OPEN—— I TAUGHT— THEY LEARNED WELL!!!!! 👍🎆🍺🍔
Starting to feel better about Proctor. Still not expecting a ton, but the reports of him adding some weight and some scouts being pretty bullish on his defense have me on the upswing.
Late to the party on this one.
Nobody knows how he’s gonna perform. We know he’s here, let’s be patient and hope the coach with a full pre-season to work with can integrate the pieces effectively.
Shit, I sound like a HR manager.
Wagner back to Magic, 1 year, $5 mil.
Best remaining Cs: Horford, Bryant, TT, Bassey, Biyombo, D. Jordan, Gibson.
Slim pickins after Horford.
Yeah, Al is definitely getting more than Mo. crazy that $5 is twice what we can afford
I’m hoping Tillman or Queta or Goga or Jay Huff or someone from a team that rostered a bunch of bigs last year shakes out, but we won’t see that until later in the summer. Might as well pause since we know TT will be there at the very least.
SL roster notes. Only 1 C. Hope that means we are still in the market. Seems so with our Horford & Ayton interest. But was that before LNJ was signed? Some of the HTS & WTS from Amico’s post seem off. ESPN has Jones at 6’4″ not 6’1″, and Shedrick at 231 not 213.
PG: CPJ, 6’2″, 176, Cavs, Whichita State
SG: Proctor, 6’5″, 183, Cavs, Duke
SF: Jaylin Tyson, 6’6″, 215, Cavs, California
PF: Nae’Qwan Tomlin, 6’9″, 210, Cavs 2 way, Memphis
C: Kadin Shedrick, 6’10”, 231, Texas
——————-
PG: Darius Brown, 6’2″, 195, Charge, Utah
G: Denver Jones, 6’4″, 195, Auburn
SG: Jaxson Robinson, 6’6″, 190, Kentucky
SF: Saliio Niang, 6’8″, 204, Trento, Italy
F: Warith Alatishe, 6’7″, 200, Charge, Oregon State
SF: Tristan Ensruna, 6’8″, 220, Maine Celtics (G league), Cleveland State
SF: Chaney Johnson, 6’8″, 225, Auburn
PF: Norchad Omier, 6’7″, 245, Baylor
My knowledge her us VERY thin. Borderline nada.
Outside of our 3 guys on the roster + Tomlin, there is not much here. Niang has wonderful physical tools but is late to the game and needs to develop. Jones & Johnson both played for an excellent Auburn team last year, Jones starting Johnson as a 6th man.
There isn’t much shooting. Alatishe did not make a 3 last year, Johnson is a high 20% guy, Brown low 30s, Enaruna low to mid 30s, Omier around 35%, Robinson is 37.6%, and Jones 41%. Shedrick hardly took any.
If I am intrigued by anyone outside of the 5 we already have, it is Jones. Starter for Auburn. Semifinalist for Defensive POY. 41% from deep. Sure hope those listing him at 6’4″ are correct, 6’1″ would dampen my enthusiasm some.
Next would be Omier. Double digit rebounder every year. Decent-ish shooting stroke. At 6’7″/245 he is a bruiser. Don’t see many of those anymore. Lack of length could hurt him inside.
But I think it is really about Tyson, CPJ, Proctor, and Tomlin. A flash from Niang would be fun.
Enaruna. Typo.
RAOUL TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOUR GAURDIANS ASSESSMENT
Cav’s Summer League Roster:
https://www.nba.com/cavaliers/news/releases-summer-league-roster-250703
Porter been on the summer league team for 1,000 years lol
No Travers?
I assume CPJ, Proctor, Tyson, and Tomlin will start. Niang also on it.
he might have went home for an extended visit
be great if LB and LNJ went out to hang with the summer league guys — get used to the system, get to know the guys. they are probably hanging out in gyms anyway.
It’s gonna be 110. Vegas summer league is delightful but it’s HOT
AGREED RAOUL / WHAT YOU POSTED/ GAURDIANS
forgot to mention Shane Bieber. he just threw his first BP since TJS. best case return is by the end of July. there is zero advantage in keeping him because he will be a FA next year. hopefully he will look good before the trade deadline. so basically the Guards have four guys to sell, three of whom are valuable (Bieber, Clase, Santana), plus Lane Thomas who is slightly valuable. it is also time to cut Nolan Jones — that was a swing and a miss. there are at least two guys in Triple A who should have been up… Read more »
YEAH NY MEDIA ( SOME) ALREADY QUESTIONING THE M BROWN HIRING—- IT IS TITLE OR BUST FOR BROWN—— SEAT WILL BE HOT ALL SEASON FOR HIM—— BROWN IS USED TO IT —- THOUGHT HE HAS BEEN “ THROWN UNDER THE BUS “ THROUGHOUT HIS CAREER
Knicks probably don’t have a championship roster. we beat the shit out of them last season
my guess also
that was a great development last year. we were so scared of the Knicks and Garland just destroyed them, particularly getting KAT into the pick and roll but also wasn’t bothered by Hart or Mikal
AGREED ON THE LBJ “ RETURN POLL “. — ALL MEDIA HYPE ANYWAYS— “ NO WAY WITH LBJ “ -/——- RAOUL OUR GAURDIANS ARE HAVING A ROUGH STRETCH/ SEASON—— DO YOU THINK WE ARE SELLERS AT TRADE DEADLINE
The problem is they could have done it before the 30th. They can’t now without wrecking the team and giving up major assets to take on LeBron.
they have to be sellers — see if we can make a run next year.
Santana because he will bring something. Lane Thomas because he has no future with the team. the only question is Clase — he will bring a boatload because he is the best closer to hit the market in forever, and he is signed long term. one option is to keep him for next year and whenever else the Guards can make a run. the other view is that he might be slipping, and cash in while you can. I vote for door #2.
Never forget that this blog has hated every coach the Cavs have had. They hated Mike Brown. They hated Ty Lue. They hated JB. Now they hate Kenny.
Maybe. Just maybe there is more to coaching than looking at lineup stats.
Also. Minutes matter. There are only so many to go around and last year Kenny was great at keeping guys fresh. The constant advocating for a nd of bench guys to get minutes means that players 6-9 in the rotation would get fewer minutes to the detriment of their ability to play in the playoffs.
WTF are you talking about. That’s NBA champion Tyron Lue you’re talking about. Put some respect on his name.
I don’t hate Kenny. They weren’t ready for the moment this playoffs.
And I never hated JB. I think he is a fantastic coach for a young team. The problem is he was not a fantastic playoff coach or possession game tactician. The Cavs had moved past him and sometimes, you just need a new voice in the room. He’s killing it in Detroit. They’re going to be an absolute bear to play against.
Whoever you are, you’re obsessing this morning and equating fair criticism with “hate.” I don’t hate my kids. Just cause I tell them sometimes that they need to do better doesn’t mean I don’t love them. Just like when they point out things I need to improve on.
Siri, please compare comments by any CtB username containing “Green”, “Goblin” and “Steal” and report forensic stylometry.
yeah, I think he finally learned to go beyond rebuilding.
not all the blog — I have been supportive of all coaches, perhaps to be a contrarian!
anyway, fan sites everywhere are always gripping about the coach, the FO, …, and everyone. the NY sites are already gripping about Mike Brown — that didn’t take long!
it’s silly. like, they need to be better than their peers, but not without weaknesses. hitting weaknesses constantly is dumb and draining and often missed the big picture in ways that turn out to look very embarrasing in retrospect.
Nate’s response is very much “hit dog hollering” — contemporaneously, almost every team failure and regular season loss on this board has been put to coaching and lineup decisions. Pick a random sampling of 20 game threads over the last three years.
Guys just need to play better sometimes. it’s a weird football / HS basketball mentality where calling the right plays with the right package is essential to success. NBA basketball, not so much.
I’d like to officially, in writing, push back on what I consider to be some serious nonsense being pushed by CLF & Nate on the subject of “best perimeter defender” on the Cavs.
Fellas. Allen, Mobley, and Dean Wade are not perimeter defenders. Every time you push that, it makes me think you are either intellectually dishonest/trolling, or are a complete idiot.
I can’t believe that I am having to point it out, honestly. And it is mostly to CLF, as Nate did quickly pivot to discuss guys who are in fact perimeter defensers like Steus & Merrill.
If you think Mobley, Wade, and Allen are perimeter defenders, then I am sure we can all point to the game where JA neutralized Curry all game to the tune of 12 pts and 6 TOs like Ice did on 11/8/25 in a 136-177 Cavs win. Or the night when Mobley harassed Harden for 94 feet all night. Or the night Wade frustrated Jamal Murray all night?
Of course you don’t. Because those guys never get those assignments. Because they aren’t perimeter defenders. Sure, they get switched onto guys sometimes. But they never are the primary defenders on guards.
So, if we are gonna have a discussion about who our best perineter defender is (or was), can we at least limit the discussion to guys who are, you know, actually perimeter defenders and not 6’10” forward/centers?
Hint: it cannot be JA, Mobley, Wade, TT, LNJ, or Tomlin. Hunter, either, really. JA, Mobes, and Wade are all elite defenders in my view. Better than Okoro was, easily. Better than Ball is. They just aren’t perimeter defenders.
yeah, CLF & Nate might have gotten a bit carried away in the heat of the argument.
I think that for years we were hoping that Okoro would blossom into a top player, worthy of being picked at #5. the reality turned out to be that he is at least a very solid defender, but only a rumor of maybe being able to shoot. so we anointed him as our top defender. maybe Ice was not a truely elite perimeter defender, but he was certainly above average. and that was his primary assignment — and he went at it like a rottwheiler guarding a meat wagon. of the current Cavs, perhaps DM would be a better defender… Read more »
unusual!
yup. so do you. so do I. — good thing we arn’t drinking whiskey!
A perimeter defender and a full court defender aren’t the same thing. A “perimeter defender” isn’t someone who presses for 94 feet, it’s someone who defends on the perimeter of the half court. Yes, often the same people are doing those, but not always. Mobley could defend 94 feet if the Cavs wanted him to, but it wouldn’t be good use of his energy.
Also, randomly taking the wraps off Okoro to let him dog for 94 feet a couple times a year is doable. But that’s not a sustainable tactic with an every day player. Regardless, Ultimately though, Chris pulled the synergy data and you don’t like that it’s positionless is what I feel like your argument is.
BINGO, stats plainly show every time we needed a stop in the PnR in the playoffs, we turned to Mobley or Allen to defend the guard because it was usually the best defense (at least in Mobley’s case, not so much Allen’s)
I am always amazed that teams don’t put little used guards (say CPJ) in a couple times a game to dog the other team’s PG 94 feet for a couple minutes. seems like a good plan.
For pros it’s harder on the defense than the offense. Good offenses hit ahead and kill that easy.
Absolutely agree.
Wade guards wings, no? But yeah, it’s all 3-5
…and of course, the defense is greatly strengthened by the fact that the bigger guys CAN get out on the perimeter without giving up tons against all but the most elite creators. Even thought Allen showed out well about half the time against Hali, which was really about as good as anyone did, including Dort.
Finally someone using their brain. We run a switch everything scheme and put our bigs on an island against guards on the perimeter all the time. The reason why we crap out against Trae, Brunson, and Hali is because our guard defenders are so bad at the POA it collapses the entire defense because we concede mismatches every possession off of simple PnR action. So yes, literally Evan Mobley and Dean Wade are our best perimeter defenders, because every guard defender on the roster is/was mid or worse. This is the obvious problem that Koby Altman has been addressing with… Read more »
ok, let’s not go respecting each other’s takes or anything.
…but I am excited for Nance as a switchy big, too. he gets a ton of deflections (and hopefully frees up Wade and Mobley to actually take chances and foul once in a while!)
the defense isn’t the big problem in the playoffs — it can’t suck as much as it did against Indy, but it’s been fine otherwise — like six more good defensive possessions a game is probably all you need.
With the roster as currently constructed, here are my best guesses for on-court minutes for the upcoming ’25-’26 regular season:
Pretty big increases in playing time for Porter and Tyson.
I’m thinking Ball and Nance each play 60 games at like 17 minutes per game.
pretty reasonable guesses. obviously injuries might change the actual totals. I might try to keep JA, DM, and EM a bit lower
Tyson should see triple the minutes… 23 year old legs and getting him experience has to be a priority.
question is what can he do in the halfcourt? I love him as a rebound and run and playmake guy, but against a set defense, is it just cut and crash and space?
needs to develop halfcourt game
Cavs reportedly had interest in Ayton.
https://hoopswire.com/knicks-clippers-bucks-pacers-cavaliers-nuggets-were-interested-in-deandre-ayton/
This does not give me a great deal of confidence in our decision makers. Though I guess as a backup, it is better than as a starter. At least it shows we understand we need a C.
Maybe just due diligence, looking at all options.
right — don’t mean squat. and who knows if it is even true
Also on a minimum, who cares?
CTB POLL —— YES / NO / MAYBE—- ON POTENTIAL LBJ RETURN —I GIVE IT A “ MAYBE “. NO DOUBT HE IS STILL TOP 10 TALENT—— COOL STORY LINE—- WOULD BE MORTAGING THE FUTURE FOR POSSIBLE 1 YEAR TITLE—NOT SURE IT IS WORTH IT
the only way to do it moneywise is to drop Garland, Allen, and Struss. Sorry, but 40+ y.o. LBJ is not remotely worth those three.
I find all this leaked stuff hard to believe as anything more than negotiating feints from the Laker’s front office and LeBron’s camps. Cavs should just ignore, unless he gets a buyout (which he won’t). He’s going to stay in LA.
Hard no. Hell no.
He isn’t worth gutting the team. The Lakers were better with him OFF the court last year.
Absolutely not. Were the Cavs in the bottom half of the ladder and he came in for low $ to mentor, help rebuild etc, great. But that’s not where the Cavs or LBJ are at. He would not help a championship run, particularly if the team’s core is gutted to help him get here. It’s all wrong.
I don’t think anyone in the Cavs is paying any attention to the “LBJ back to Cleveland” meme. My guess is that the entire thing is Rich Paul, and a bunch of wannabe “sports analysts” trying to find something to write about.
I think it’s absolutely got legs, but LeBron painted himself into a corner.
it’s next year. we lose in the Finals and Bron returns home to put us over the top.
annoying because nothing the whole year will be about actual basketball
MIKE “ MR POTATO HEAD “ BROWN
WE HAVE LNJ —- LAKERS CAN HAVE HORFORD / STILL WONT SOLVE THEIR POST DILEMMA
They just st signed Ayton. That gonna be as dysfunctional as shit
Ha-Ha! love it!
We were interested, too. Reportedly:
https://hoopswire.com/knicks-clippers-bucks-pacers-cavaliers-nuggets-were-interested-in-deandre-ayton/
I think we get one of Horford and Boucher if we still want to go big.
I also think…ugh…whole league is kind of waiting on Bron so maybe we pause for a few weeks on FAs
why would anyone wait for LeBron? his contract is more than he is worth. someone is going to give up three top players for him?
I think vet min guys will continue to want to play with LeBron. not that we want him, but could see someone like CP3 or Brogdon or Horford wanting to hitch their wagon to Bron. or even a lonnie walker iv, bron gets role guys paid
Lakers come off the board as Horford suitors I think.
maybe maybe maybe…?
Really feels like a single year tank job coming from Boston.
I’m fascinated to see White as a #2 option
absolutely. that is the smart thing to do. do they still have their own picks?
Brown + White + Prichatd gives them a floor. Beyond that? I think they try and maximize their pick.
I can get to 7 in the East pretty quick: Cavs, Knicks, Pistons, Bucks, Magic, Hawks, 76ers.
Miami, Chicago, Boston, Indy, and Toronto sniffing the play-in.
Pacers also.
multiple reports that the Knicks have hired Mike Brown as HC.
didn’t the CtB gang used to have a nickname for MB?
Knicks fans assume LBJ will soon follow
…because LeBron and MB were so tight, apparently…
…I’m thinking LeBron might have deeper affection for the combo of Tristan and Nance jr.
In this season of continued fan fiction sloppiness, what is the back story for how LAL and LeBron agree to a buyout before SI publishing “The Return Part II.” Be creative.
This is where Reddit REALLY shines.
Grimace?
GOING TO MAKE A PREDICTION——- ALOT OF TEAMS ARE GOING TO REGRET NOT TAKING PROCTOR—( GLAD THEY DIDNT ) THINK THE CAVS “ LUCKED “ INTO A SOLID PLAYER—-ESPECIALLY PLAYING WITH THE CAVS PLAYERS—- CANT WAIT UNTIL July 10th —— SUMMER LEAGUE 👍🏀
same
Looking at the Cavs moves this offseason I think they are really focusing on players that can serve as connecting pieces and can keep the offense moving and prevent the ball from sticking. While the offense was good all year, the first couple of months the style and flow were different compared to March – May. I think Kenny wants to play more like October through December when the ball and player movement were elite. So they really focused on guys that can make the right read and keep the play moving over a ballhandler/scorer that is going to look for… Read more »
According to NBA stats, Dean Wade and Jarrett Allen were our most frequent perimeter isolation defenders, and they were better at it than Isaac “best perimeter defender on the team” Okoro. Gotta love when people say shit that’s not even close to based on reality.
Dean Wade, best perimeter defender on the team BY FAR… lockdown PnR on ball defender.
Sam Merrill, Max Strus, Evan Mobley, Donovan Mitchell all better than Okoro on ball perimeter defense in the playoffs BTW
Playoff numbers:
Not going to argue against this point, but he was a willing defender and took his responsibilities seriously, hence how he was treated by teammates. Was he good enough and willing to do the tough assignments? I believe so. Just saying, think it was appreciated by the team, didn’t translate to much in terms of playoff wins, though. Not quite good enough at any one thing
right. solid, OK player, but not much help for the Cavs at this point
Gotta love people who use stats but don’t understand them. Or cherry pick.
Smaller sample size, easier assignments. Cherry picked numbers.
But you keep being you, CLF.
Okoro got the toughest perimeter assignments every game he was out there, FFS.
Allen & Mobley are not perimeter defenders. They don’d defend perimeter players consistently. Neither does Wade.
You don’t even understand what a perimeter defender IS.
The first two screen shots were from the regular season. Okoro’s defense mattered so little this year he wasn’t even registering enough reps to hit the thresholds LMFAOOO
Okoro dead enders truly some of the dumbest NBA fans on earth.
I am so conflicted on the Ice & Ty departures. And the Ball acquisition. And, to some extent, the LNJ signing as well.
Taken together, we lost our best perimeter defender and our most explosive bench scorer/creator and replaced them with guys who have been hurt A LOT recently and likely been sapped of some athleticism and ability on D as a result.
Okoro wasn’t the Cavs’ best perimeter defender. His defense was wildly overrated. Maybe that was due to inconsistent playing time, but the last two seasons I was unimpressed. Sam is a fine replacement there, and Ball if healthy is an upgrade. I also hope they re-sign Green.
The bench scoring is going to hurt a lot, but if the Cavs are smart, DG will do a lot of leading the bench for scoring, and start but play like a sixth man. The rub comes with the inevitable injuries. The dropoff is bigger. Have to hope CPJ is ready to shine.
.
Ball
Ball was not on the team last year, Nate.
Though, if healthy (big if), I will admit he is at least as good as Ice on D. Who I will admit slipped a bit. Being our best perineter defender is not a high bar (DG, Spida, Jerome, Merrill).
So, you think Merrill was our best perimeter defender? Please.
No. Mitchell and Mobley were better perimeter defenders, but I’d put Sam ahead of Okoro in terms of discipline, reading the scouting report, and scheme execution. If I had a dollar for every time Okoro forgot which way to shade a guy on D…
And both had their good and bad moments. I found Sam and Ice to be pretty on par.
We certainly disagree there. However, I do think Sam is a good enough defender to stay on the court come PO time. I thought he held up well enough this last time.
I fully support bringing him back. And if I had to pick one of Merrill, Ice, & Jerome to keep, I’d have picked Merrill. Though his age makes it close, long term. Short term, no question.
Though I’d have kept Jerome as well. But it ain’t my $87 mil. We’ll see what we can get on vet min for the last two spots.
Mobley isn’t a perimeter defender at all, Nate. We don’t put him on guards, ever. Goodness gracious, you are losing cred on this topic with me. LBJ incoming!
Though I do agree that Ice, especially off ball, was hardly masterful on D. He and Hunter are kinda similar there.
But this is all a sidebar to the main thrust of what I was trying to talk about, which is where do we go from here with 2 roster spots left. So I will just let it go.
I did not notice anything in there saying who was our best perimeter defender, Nate. Lord I hate ehen people do that. Feel free to disagree of course, but don’t say no he wasn’t without asserting who was.
And don’t say Wade, he’s a 4. He isn’t checking small guards. Hunter? I did not see him checking too many small guards, either.
On the flip side, neither Ice nor Jerome distinguished themselves in the POs & almost all their value is on one side of the court. While Ball & LNJ are 2 way players. They will be more playable come PO time. Ditto for Merrill, who defended well enough in the POs, he held up fine. Keeper.
But man, is Ball injured a lot. Games played by year: 52, 47, 63, 55, 35, 0, 0, 35. LNJ has had his share as well: 63, 63, 66, 67, 56, 35, 46, 65, 61, 24.
Also wondering how well LNJ’s Crohn’s disease is managed these days. This kind of this comes and goes, and I haven’t followed his path since he was traded away last time.
Now, Jerome isn’t exactly an iron man either, having played 50+ games one time. But the worry on Ball (and to a lesser degree LNJ & Wade), stands. We cannot rely on them being healthy. In short, we need a plan B for when/if they get hurt.
We have 2 spots left. I think a true C (which Nance certainly is not) has to be one. And PG should be the other, UNLESS you think CPJ is ready for meaningful minutes. And there is a reasonable case he could be, though KA did not think so vs Indy.
So, to come full circle, I liked bringing Merrill back, the Ball/Okoro swap, and the LNJ vet min deal. We needed a Wade upgrade and frontcourt depth. We needed some size & tenacity in the backcourt. If healthy, Ball is a better PG than Jerome and a better defender than Okoro.
But both LNJ & Ball have durability issues, so depending on either is unwise. Plus, neither replaces Jerome’s shooting/scoring.
2 spots left. Still need a C, and a plan B for Ball’s injury (ball handler & defense). And to replace Jerome’s shooting & scoring.
That seems impossible for 2 spots. So either we took a step back in some areas, or there has to be an on roster solution.
Clearly, I think the hope is Tyson/Proctor replace the scoring, but I am skeptical there as each guy has done virtually nada at the NBA level. But I think CPJ could be a viable 3rd PG. If so, then we do not need a PG type per se, and could use the last spot somewhere else. Either a plan B perimier defender (Ball insurance) or more help replacing Jerome’s scoring/shooting.
CPJ, Y1 v Y2
G/GS, MPG. PPG/RPG/APG, FG/3PT/FT/TS
51/6, 12.7. 5.6/2.1/2.3. 50.9/35.3/73.2/56.4
51/1, 10.1. 2.7/1.3/1.4. 51.4/43.8/71.9/61.0
Player/Yr: USG%, AST%, TOV%
CPJ 23/24: 20.2%, 26.5%, 15.1%
CPJ 24/25: 15.9%, 17.7%, 19.8%
DG 24/25: 27.2%, 32.2%, 12.8%
DM 24/25: 30.9%, 23.9%, 9.2%
Ball 24/25: 15.9%, 18.9%, 13.9%
Ty 24/25: 23.6%, 24.5%, 11.9%
I love that CPJ raised his 3PT% to 43.8% and is TS% to 61.0%. Those are excellent. But …
That TOV% is way too high. And went in the wrong direction. That is why he didn’t play vs Indy, folks. He turns it over too much. Twice as often as Mitchell. 33% more than DG or Ty. 30% more than Ball.
Not a big fan of high usage/ast rates necessarily indicating good PG play. Often, it is just a guy who holds the ball so long either his shot or the guy he passes to has to shoot. But TOV% that high is worrisome.
I want to believe in CPJ, but I am not there yet. But the simple fact is, we have more holes/doubts than spots, so we are gonna have to live with some risk.
The thing I am most comfortable risking is Ty’s scoring/shooting.
We have DM & DG to pick up the slack. Hunter & Merrill excellent shooters. Strus streaky. Ball’s last 4: 37.5%, 37.8%, 42.3%, then 34.4% after the layoff. Nance was over 40% the last 2 years. Mobes is pushing 37/38% & should level up on O. Proctor’s shooting is his best trait. Tyson can score.
The thing I am least comfortable risking is not having a 3rd playable C. Though our FO certainly has risked it the last couple of years. That leaves the plan Bs for Ball’s injury in terms of ball handling & perimeter defense. A guy who could do both and not kill the O would be great. But hard to find on a ver min. Dante Exum, but he is ALWAYS hurt. I guess I’d roll the dice on ball-handling with DG & Spida already here & CPJ & Proctor on the roster. I’d prioritize perimeter defending. Though KA did not… Read more »
Tyson did OK when he played. recall he started one early game, and kicked butt. And CPJ played some solid minutes the previous year.
why did we not see them again?
apparently KA did not want to enlarge the rotation. that came back to bite us in the playoffs when DG got hurt, and Ty couldn’t handle the ball and forgot how to shoot.
there is no way to get a good Plan B for every position and fit under the salary cap. if we have a lot of PG injuries, we will just have to hope CPJ is ready, and I think he is.
obviously the big IF about Ball is how much he can play.
if he was totally healthy, he would be a top starter, and there is no way we could trade Ice for him.
the Cavs are now in “salary strapped, contend every year” mode. there is simply no money for 1 – way players like Ice and Ty. we love them, and they will be able to hang around the NBA as rotation players in “not ready for prime time” teams.
I think you are absolutely right and said it way better than I did. And shorter.
So, where would you go on the last two spots?
Despite our disagreements, both Nate & I went C and perimeter D (though I may be putting words in Nate’s mouth, there).
And I gotta say, NBA D Is so dumb these days. They switch everything and let teams pick on the worst defender WAY too easily. I’d like to see more going under, blitzes, zone, and hedging. Not to mention ball denial and rejecting the switch.
Now, Ty’s O was not good enough to justify court time vs Indy. But I don’t think there is still room for Vinny Johnson types if used properly and for short bursts.
There’s nothing too wrong with just resigning Green and TT. We have enough weapons for a top-5 offense without Ty.
TT isn’t a huge space eater but he can guard those guys and challenge them on the glass and screen and your alternative is probably a stiff like Alex Len or Biyimbo.
Green is good enough as a defender and rebounder to win possessions.
Cavs still need a big body center. They need to have the optionality to play multiple ways, and frankly the Knicks are bigger and stronger than them in the middle RN.
Could not agree more with this one.
Multiple writers at the Ringer loved the Okoro/Ball swap for the Cavs
https://www.theringer.com/2025/06/30/nba/nba-free-agency-trade-rumors-preview-lebron-james-giannis-antetokounmpo
Would it be insane to start Wade and bring both Hunter and Strus off the bench when DG is back?
I love how Dean guards and don’t want to waste that on bench dudes, on offense it takes a perimeter scoring option off the table to remind the guards to feed their local big men, and you have a scary bench unit with a pass-first PG running the show and tons of shooting.
that is a good idea. maybe as a change of pace — the Cavs have enough talent that they can show multiple looks.
I kind of want to roll Tomlin out as the backup 5. I don’t actually think the team is built for a hulk like an Andre Drummond or a Plumlee.
the only time I would want those guys is if we are playing the 76’ers in the ECF
It doesn’t hurt to get one for an emergency I guess. Not needed though. Just run big teams off the floor.
Allen in particular has gotten really good at guarding the 300 pounders by denying entry passes and using speed and positioning.
Knicks:
Starters: Brunson, Hart, Bridges, OG, KAT
Bench: McBride, Clarkson, Yabusele, Robinson
Deep bench: Kolek, Dadiet, Hukporti
FAs: Achiuwa, Wright, Shamet, Payne, Beauchamp
Bucks:
Starters: KPJ, Trent Jr, Kuzma, Giannis, Turner
Bench: Micic, Jackson, Harris, Prince, Portis, Sims
that is…not an athletic group of teams. we should be able to run them both off the floor on offense and we have enough size to defend them.
east runs through Cleveland.
Best pod in while, you guys were on fire. Love the CLF smackdown that got the ball rolling, CLF came with his guns loaded.
Thanks, man.
Nate sets me up I just gotta knock it down!!
So, 2 roster spots open. Still hoping for a C.
2 way: Tomlin, Travers
Draft & Stash: Diop, Niang
Exhibit 10:
—Chaney Jonhson, F, 6’7″, 225, Auburn
—Norchard Omier, F, 6’7″, 240, Baylor
—-Jaxson Robinson, Wing, 6’6″, 192, Kentucky
Those guys + Proctor is gonna be the summer league team. Need a couple more.
plus JT and maybe CPJ.
outta be a competative unit. any idea when summer camp starts? outta be pretty soon –Thursday, 7/10 is the first game
MR STEAL —-READ TY s COMMENTS ALSO —— TAKING WITH A “ GRAIN OF SALT “ —- AM QUITE SURE CAVS MADE TY AN OFFER—— MONEY/ PT WEREN T WHAT HE WANTED—- JUST LIKE RUMORS ABOUT TY “ RUBBING “ PLAYERS THE WRONG WAY———WHO KNOWS WHAT IS FACT /,FICTION
Yeah no one knows. Speculation also that Sam had something like the Luke Kennard deal from another team – maybe 2/22 with an option year. Can believe it based on the deals for Kennard / Robinson.
Either way I’m good with the end result.
I trust the ballclub over any individual player until we see smoke for multiple players. This FO has rated character at a maximum since they started, which has helped avoid a lot of crap. Not saying this is the reason Ty was moved.
I see it as the harsh reality of maintaining a contending team with a core 4 in the salary cap era. The core 4 and a couple of key players (Struss, Hunter) are using up the vast majority of the salary cap. this leaves enough for a couple of guys around $10M and lower, and some at the minimum. when you figure out how to divide the pie up, sorry, but there will not be enough money for both Ty and Sam. The Cavs picked Sam, which in retrospect appears to be the obvious choice. I have no clue if… Read more »
Windy on Core – 4:
https://cavsnation.com/rumors/cavs-rumors-brian-windhorst-drops-absolute-declaration-core-4
Travers back on a 2 way.
https://www.si.com/nba/cavaliers/news/cavaliers-re-sign-young-wing-two-way-deal
Damn, Jaren Jackson had the DG turf toe too?? woof
where Bron?
hopefully staying in LA
know anything about Jaxson Robinson?
https://www.on3.com/teams/kentucky-wildcats/news/former-kentucky-guard-jaxson-robinson-inks-nba-deal-with-the-cleveland-cavaliers/
he has a heck of a highlight reel of his year at KY. I like his style, makes a nice shot and turns and runs up the floor with no clowning.
PG: DG, Ball, CPJ
Combo G: Mitchell, Proctor
SG/SF: Strus, Merill, Tyson
SF/PF: Hunter, Wade
PF/C: Mobley, Nance
C: Allen
9 guys who are better as SF or under. 4 guys who are best PF or higher. 2 spits open.
Horford and LNJ werey 2 dream gets on a vet min. Though getting LNJ probably precludes Horford coming. But Al on the min is still a longshot. GSW can offer more, I think. And that is some good fit.
I still think we need another 5 (Nance is not a C). And given his injury history, depending on him for a heavy load is not wise. Though he & Wade can split time at the 4. I’d still ring Al.
Ditto with Ball. I like the player, but think we need a plan B. IDK if CPJ is ready.
Without the injury issues, however,,Ball has way more value than Okoro and LNJ ain’t no vet min guy.
And remember, Ty had injury issues, too.
I mean if 24-25 was like 23-24, another injury-riddled season, Ty is out of the league.
https://www.reddit.com/r/clevelandcavs/comments/1lpjjb2/ty_was_never_given_the_option_to_return/
Yeesh, dramatic!
SOME MEDIA ARE SAYING CAVS SHOULD BE ALL IN ON SIGNING LILLIARD ——OPINIONS
for two years on a vet min, probably. he will sit most of the first year out, then be a super version of Ty Jerome in the second.
I don’t think we can do a two year vet min but certainly it would be a handshake
If Ty actually irritated his teammates then you probably don’t need more of that with Dame I guess
No. Hell no. He cannot play. Way overrated.
Absolutely not, completely antithetical to every move they’ve been making and he’s completely cooked… enjoy retirement Dame time!
He’s not joining the Cavs anyway. What are we doing here?
IDK just playing along boss LFMAO
streets now saying Boston or GSW
Boston, I hope, so we can cook his ass.
LNJ COMING HOME 👍🏀👍🏀👍🏀
wouldn’t be surprised if we are all saying “thank god we didn’t match for Ty” by midseason.
I loved what Ty did, but it always seemed like he was doing it with mirrors or something, and his luck would start to run out. now that his visability is higher, teams are less likely to be fooled by how slow he is. Proctor might be better from the get-go.
i think we might run point mitchell for a few weeks if DG is close to healthy in training camp and just kind of punt on backup PG apart from maybe 15 minutes a game, since the ball should be in Evan’s hands anyways.
yeah, the early “pre DG” period will be a good time to work on Evan centric offense — get good at at so you can use it when you need to. when DG is back will be time to polish up last years offense.
to me, the funniest possible outcome is Ball coming out of the gate smoking and the combination of his notoriety, another win streak, and unexpected initial production in the absence of Garland vaulting him to a 6MOY candidate — and finishing third
Love the LNG signing.
He isn’t a Center, except small ball, though.
only cold water I’d throw on this was I don’t recall Larry being particularly good in the 2018 playoffs but that was a long time ago.
does anyone have any memory of that?
Wade is a low bar to clear, offensively.
yeah, no question. just recall a vague disappointment is all
In: Nance, Ball, Proctor
Out: Ice, Ty
I think this is largely where we thought we’d be (add vet third big, add vet PG, pick, lose Ty) except the initial offseason predictions were using the Ice contract for a big, and signing the veteran PG outright, and this is the reverse.
think we’re good.
Welcome back Larry!
Will the moves hurt enough to matter? We outpaced the Bucks and Knicks by 15 games.
I still would have kept Ty at $10m, just flip him at the deadline if he stinks or wants more minutes
Biggest thing to me is that Ty was a big part of keeping Donovan and DG’s minutes down. We’ll see how it goes next season.
Giving Hunter and Mobley the ball more often should give them fewer on-ball minutes.
Ty is awesome, but a scoring point guard is probably the most replaceable player type. if we got Russ or CP3 or Malcolm Brogdon or Cole Anthony, that player could be used the same way albeit not with Ty’s ridiculous point per minute production
If it forces them to play through Mobley more, that’s definitely a benefit. Absolutely needs to be next season’s priority. Mobley’s development determines their ceiling.